Humidity issues, part deux.

[Spirit]

I just got back from the store where I bought a bag of forest bark (exo terra) and some small cement bricks (for stacking on the UTH).

So with the forest bark, is there a concern about scale rot, and do I have to mist the tank still? It's a 40 gallon glass aquarium, with a wire lid, but I've got most of it sealed off (trying to anyway).

If this doesn't work, I'll put one or two rubbermaids in there for hides, but then I'll need some advice on what to put IN them for humidity (will some aspen and a small water bowl be sufficiant?).

Now I know a few python breeders who told me not to worry about the humidity at all, and just to provide a humid hide and watch for bad sheds... but how does low humidity affect them, other than shedding? DOES it affect their eating habits? Anything else?

Should I just put some reptibark in a container and leave THAT open in the tank (mist that daily change it weekly)?

Bah. BAH!
Thanks in advance. :)

[Vengeance]

Since you seem intent on using a glass tank with a screen lid instead of a rubbermaid (if you stick around long enough you will eventualy learn that rubbermaids are better) the best option that I found worked with a glass tank is a plexiglass lid that sits on the lip of the glass tank and then you can put your screen over top of that to secure it.

You cut a piece of plexiglass to the measurments of the tank, then drill holes in the plexiglass at an angle, this slows the escape of the hummidity but allows for ventalation. I created one it looked like this...

http://www.ssnakess.com/photopost/data/500/3606Lid-med.JPG

It worked great for keeping up the hummidty without misting. But it is about 10x cheaper to just buy a rubbermaid and alot less work.

[HumphreyBoagart]

Hey Spirit,
I know my help isn't wanted here at all, but I am still going to offer a few suggestions. Hopefully you don't take them as atagonistic downtalk again.
Yes there is definately a concern of scale rot, especially if there's no ventilation from blocking off the top. And a really good chance he get a respitory infection from it too.
If you are stuck on keeping him in a glass aquarium, and don't want to switch over to rubbermaids that's fine, that's totally up to you. You should try putting two large water bowls in there. One in the hot end and one in the cold end. The heat will help it evaporate and should raise the humidity a bit. Also, if he doesn't soak in the water bowls, what you can do is take two plastic bowls and attach on upside down on the other and cut a hole in it so it's like a water bowl and a hide all in one. I find that mine use them alot more when they're like this because they don't feel as vulnerable as when they're in the open and in the water. This will help him have perfect sheds almost every time.
Using rubbermaids as hides will probably not help the problem at hand at all. But using rubbermaids as the actual enclosure definately will help the problem. Then there is no need for misting at all. A Large water bowl in there should keep the humidity just about perfect. Most of the time it's too high and you have to end up drilling more holes in the rubbermaid to lower the humidity.
Hope this helps your problem even just a little bit.
Hump.

[Spirit]

While I do appreciate all your help in telling me to switch to rubbermaid, it's not something I want to discuss YET. I know plenty of people who house their royals in glass aquariums without problems, but I also know that maintaining humidity CAN be a big one. I'll definitely look into getting some plexiglass cut, but in the meantime, is it a bad idea to switch to forest bark?

The reason I was thinking of placing two small rubbermaid containers in (one on either end) is for that exact reason... The only difference would be he would be able to enter or exit whenever he wants. I do NOT want to house my snake, in a rubbermaid container, but if it helps, I will place one in the tank for him to retreat to or hide in. He's still small, so this might even be a GOOD idea, concidering the tank is a 40 gallon...

As for the forest bark though, since it IS a glass aquarium, it will raise the humidity a BIT, and HOPEFULLY enough, but do I have reason to worry about things such as scale rot?

Does anyone here use it?

[Spirit]

Oops, double post. But while I'm editing anyway, I do have 3 water bowls in there right now (I added a third last night). One large one over part of the UTH, another in front, and a smaller one under a 40 watt heat lamp (I keep a red bulb over the cool side to prevent the ambient temps from dropping below 70 - which they will).

I also have a humid hide which I've never seen him use, and LOTS of other hides he can use if he so wishes.

Its' that damn humidity thing. I know they need it for shedding purposes, but is there another reason it needs to be kept high? Like I said, he's got the humid hide if he wants to use it...

[Vengeance]

I would only use carefresh as a particle substrate because if you feed in the cage there is a possibility that your ball python can ingest some of the substrate during feeding and become impacted. Carefresh is a particle substrate which is safe to ingest. Forest bark should be fine but I wouldn't feed on it as you may run into the problem I mentioned above.

Although I'm sure you know people who keep Ball pythons in glass tanks, that doesn't mean it is the best thing for them. Just because something works doesn't mean it is a good option, a snake can survive in a glass tank but I personally believe from my own experience that they don't thrive in that kind of environment and since my goal is to have animals that thrive I keep all my Ball pythons in rubbermaids.

[pinoiballer01]

hey spirit, i for one is no expert on ball pythons. i will only speak for my experience. i also have a 40 gallon breeder tank that house may ball python. i have 2 clay pot as a hide, a newspaper for substrate and a plastic tupperware for a waterbowl. i have a human heat pad underneath the tank and a 100 watt red light buld to heat the cage. as of today i havent have a problem with humidity. the water bowl is located in the cool side. maybe if you keep your room temp in low 70,s it will help on your humidity problem. once again i am not an expert this is based on experience. by the way my bp is eating avery 2 weeks and shedded perfectly 2 weeks ago.

[Vengeance]

Just out of curiousity pinoiballer01 what are you using to determine what your hummidity is at?

[Spirit]

pinoiballer01: I know some people who have the same basic setup as you, and have never had a problem either, which is why I'm so determined to get this right.

The hygrometer varies from 40-50% but he DOES have lots of places to go (water bowl, humid hide, etc) if he needs the extra moisture.

My MAIN concern is him going off feed... I understand this can happen if the humidity is too low... ?

[pinoiballer01]

im using a thermometer and hygromemter digital combo from lowes.

[mykee]

"I know plenty of people who house their royals in glass aquariums without problems.."

Perhaps it would be wise of you to ask these 'people' you speak of how to help? I'm fairly sure that most any ball keeper who has tried out the "fish cage" (thanks Jeff) for a ball ends up switching to a rubbermaid eventually. I was one of those stubborn SOB's way back when, but realized that for both my sanity, and MOST IMPORTANTLY, the health and well-being of my snakes, regardless fo how pretty and "displayable" an aquarium is, they're just not snake-friendly.

[Spirit]

LOL mykee! I'm definitely one of those stubborn SOB's you speak of, and that WILL change if I can't remedy this (so called) problem.

Of COURSE I asked around, but it never hurts to get more opinions/suggestions.

The three people I know here still keep their balls in glass vivs and do nothing different than what I'm doing now, so I don't know why my humidity is so low (it's at 50% right now, was at 40% this morning). The people I asked online (from another forum), some of them keep the snakes in glass aquariums, but others house in sterlite containers (racks) for breeding purposes (large numbers).

I dont know... I was told by several people not to bother raising the humidity in the whole tank, so long as it's not TOO low (below 40%) and they have a humid hide for retreat.

But (I'll ask again) how does low humidity affect my snake's health (other than a bad shed)? That's all I'm really concerned about (his overall health). I've done a lot of "online" research and there is just SO MUCH conflicting information!

[Spirit]

Originally posted by pinoiballer01
im using a thermometer and hygromemter digital combo from lowes.

I searched EVERYWHERE for a digital one, but no luck finding one under $90. May I ask what you paid?

Edit: What kind of lid do you use? Is it open (wire)? And where do you live (I'm thinking it just might be more humid in your area)?

[dave68]

Is your snake eating? shedding?deficating? and for how long has your humidity been at 40-50% if he's doing all things mentioned above I would say it's obviously not affecting his health at all.
Allison

[Spirit]

It's a new snake, but the viv he was in before me had much worse humidity than mine does now and the answers to your questions are yes, yes, and I don't know (hasn't pooped in the... 9 days that I've had him).

He ate for me last week, but he refused a rat a few days ago (he WAS on mice). It's either the switch from mice to rats (I hear that can be tricky) or the humidity... but since it was worse before, I'm guessing it's the switch. His next feed is sunday, but I'd like to get the humidity up before then if I can.

I just made a hide out of cement bricks, so what I might do is wet one of the bricks (they take a while to dry out), but I'm a little concerned that "dampness" might be a bad thing...

[peterm15]

hoe big is he.. a 40 gal may stress out a small snake... whats the humidity in the room you keep him in.. if its too low.. like below 30 you may want to consider useing a small humidifier.. anything below 30 and above 55 can cause YOU problems with your health.. mold if its to high and just plain breathing probs if its to dry.. between 35 and 55 (i think) is considered a "comfort zone"..
if you raise the overall humidity then you raise it in your tank as well...

id also say get rid of the red bulb.. ive heard they eat humidity.. i dont know what else to use but the bulb will eat everything you work for..

[Spirit]

Okay, I decided exactly what I'm going to do.

I'm going to remove the humid hide for now (he doesn't seem to like it at ALL) and instead of damp substrate, I'm going to place a smaller water bowl and aspen in it (sort of like a large hide with water). I'll have to change the aspen in the hide much more often, but it might help with his overall health. He'll have the higher humidity, and the security of being in a smaller enclosure.

*sigh* Whoever said balls are easier than corns, obviously didn't use a glass aquarium. LOL!!!

Pete: The ambient temps without the bulb can drop well into the low 50's. I keep the low wattage just so it doesn't drop below 75, but he spends ALL of his time in the paper towel tube on the UTH, so I think the tupperware hide is a good idea.

Thanks again, everyone. Some great people here. :)

[Spirit]

Update: The humid hide has been replaced with a somewhat larger tupperware container. I tried a small cup of water... did nothing but create condensation above the cup, BUT my snake went in happily and stayed in for some time. Hygrometer didn't change AT ALL so I tried the Forest Bark. It's up to JUST below 60% now! HOORAY!

NOW, how often do I change the forest bark? And also, as little as there is, that is a LOT of condensation for 60% (I'm sure it will rise some more, but the hygrometer is staying pretty steady)... Does this happen in the larger rubbermaid vivs also??

[dave68]

Is 75 not too cold????
Allison

[Spirit]

I've read 75 is the lowest it SHOULD go. It stays around 80-85 on the cool side with the red light on, 92-94ish on the warm. Without the light it'll drop to 50, EASILY, or if a window is open it MIGHT drop to 75 (with the light)... but right now it's at 83.

Am I wrong? What are the proper temps?