My Carpet Pythons New Home

[liquid_mage]

I just finished setting up my Carpet Pythons new home last weekend and decided to take some pictures. One of the most important things was for me to be able to remove the dowel rods.

http://www.ssnakess.com/photopost/data/504/711tankfront1110702sm.jpg

http://www.ssnakess.com/photopost/data/504/711tanktop1110702sm.jpg

http://www.ssnakess.com/photopost/data/504/711tankfront2110702sm.jpg

http://www.ssnakess.com/photopost/data/504/711tanktop21107022m.jpg

[marisa]

Is that just pressure holding them up? (I know NOTHING about bulding, tools, wood, dowels, anything) lol. You mentioned wanting to be able to remove them later, which is what I am looking for right now.

marisa

[liquid_mage]

I used silicone to attach the plastic bracketts to the glass.

[marisa]

Where I have been failing. I was using hot glue, but it seemed to fall after a few days under the heat, and I would find the dowel on the ground. I am missing that plastic white piece! I will try that with silicone. thanks

marisa

[liquid_mage]

The silicone is really strong and is holding up well so far. The plastic white pieces are closet rod holders I purchased at home depot. Unfortunately I couldn't find anything better that fit the 1 inch dowel rods. So I used end caps from the plumbing section on the ends of the dowel rods so everything fit.

[Clownfishie]

Looks good :)

[PoiSoNouS]

Looks great !
Good job ;)

[lance]

awsome job

[Jeff_Favelle]

See, now this was a person who was THINKING when they made their cage. Look at all the subtle things that were done to accomplish so MANY different husbandry requirements:

Heat tape on a vertical wall. Awesome!! Carpets are arboreal!! Why have a heater under the tank? Great stuff.

Dowling in 2 different places (back to front). Excellent, as the snake can now choose to be closer to the heat tape, or super far from the heat tape. VERY important to let the snake choose!

Aquarium with NO SCREEN LID!! I never understood why people used screen lids for cages! You might as well put your snake in a food dehydrater!!!

TWO thermometers for accuracy. Answer is obvious.


Only thing I'd change is to offer 2 hide boxes (one cool, one warm).


Great cage, I look forward to seeing that snake grow!!

[liquid_mage]

Originally posted by Jeff_Favelle
See, now this was a person who was THINKING when they made their cage. Look at all the subtle things that were done to accomplish so MANY different husbandry requirements:

Heat tape on a vertical wall. Awesome!! Carpets are arboreal!! Why have a heater under the tank? Great stuff.

Dowling in 2 different places (back to front). Excellent, as the snake can now choose to be closer to the heat tape, or super far from the heat tape. VERY important to let the snake choose!

Aquarium with NO SCREEN LID!! I never understood why people used screen lids for cages! You might as well put your snake in a food dehydrater!!!

TWO thermometers for accuracy. Answer is obvious.


Only thing I'd change is to offer 2 hide boxes (one cool, one warm).


Great cage, I look forward to seeing that snake grow!!

I will take your advise about the two hides I like that idea.

I'm actually using a 12 x 4 inch strip of flexwatt under the tank also. The strip on the side doesn't seem to keep the tempatures constant enough. I've also found that if I use too much reptibark that it keeps the uth from doing it's job.

[Jeff_Favelle]

No problem using the strip underneath as well to increase the ambient.

Well done!

[Syst3m]

Hey liquid, Did you get ahold of some rubber feet so you could raise the tank off of that strip of flexwatt so there isn't a lot of pressure on it. I've got some here just ask for them and I will drag them out for you.

[Them and Us]

the reason sometimes that people have screen lids is because they cannot afford a different enclosure at the time. such as myself. my initial boa cage was a 20 long with a screen lid. although i did cover as much of the screen as possible with a piece of plexi-glass. i now have front opening melamine and glass enclosue though as the humidity is much better now then ever.

[Jeff_Favelle]

Up here in Canada, a piece of plywood is waaaayy cheaper than a fabricated screen top.

[The_Omen]

Aquarium with NO SCREEN LID!! I never understood why people used screen lids for cages! You might as well put your snake in a food dehydrater!!!

I've never made snake jerky....

I have been using screen tops for years with NO problems with humids or heat etc...

The only problem I have had was a fiberglass screened lid on a tank I got for free. A BP pushed through it and I easily converted it to screen.

The way to control humidity is proper set up from the bottom up. For my higher humidity needy animals, I use either the coconut fiber mulch, or a layer of river gravel topped with some plastic sheeting then topped with coconut.
On the screen, I cover part of it with foil.

I have to open the tank to see good inside due to all the humidity and I don't use a fancy mist set up either. A spray bottle a few times a day does nicely.


Oh yeah, Liquid, you may want to scuff the rods up quite a bit and get the slickness off of them....
A fall from a slippery stick can injure or kill your animal.

[The_Omen]

Heat tape on a vertical wall. Awesome!! Carpets are arboreal!! Why have a heater under the tank? Great stuff.

Because heat goes UP.

The only way I can figure that the heat strips are doing any good at all there is if they are NOT on a rheostat, which means too hot to the touch and you are risking burning part of your snakes when they curiously get close and examine it.
The heat being on the bottom also helps keep the humids up with evaporation by convection, (old term, look it up).
Looks like you are going to have a literal swamp in there with all the water that will collect on the floor not being evaporated to make the humidity.

Which explains wasting $$ on a mister...
Also explains the NEED for an acrylic lid.(more $$ than screen)

[liquid_mage]

Originally posted by The_Omen
Because heat goes UP.

The only way I can figure that the heat strips are doing any good at all there is if they are NOT on a rheostat, which means too hot to the touch and you are risking burning part of your snakes when they curiously get close and examine it.
The heat being on the bottom also helps keep the humids up with evaporation by convection, (old term, look it up).
Looks like you are going to have a literal swamp in there with all the water that will collect on the floor not being evaporated to make the humidity.

Which explains wasting $$ on a mister...
Also explains the NEED for an acrylic lid.(more $$ than screen)

I do use a rheostat but I have found that I think the heat tape would be better on the bottom instead of the side. The heat tape just doesn't seem to function as well as I though it would on the side of the tank. Humidity isn't a problem because this is for a Carpet Python it only needs to around 65 to 70. Right now I don't need to mist which makes me happy.

[Jeff_Favelle]

Actually, if the water dish is lying directly on top of the heat tape (or on top of something that is on top of the heat tape) the method of evaporation would be CONDUCTION. Not convection.

:D

[The_Omen]

the method of evaporation would be CONDUCTION. Not convection.

Sorry Jeff, but with no heat source on the bottom as it was, it is called convection.


And it seems as if liquid has moved the strips to the bottom of the set up to take advantage of heats natural tendency to rise.

As seen here,

I do use a rheostat but I have found that I think the heat tape would be better on the bottom instead of the side. The heat tape just doesn't seem to function as well as I though it would on the side of the tank.

[Syst3m]

Ok, heat rises. Heat is also radiant. (directional) Hence the use of Ceramic heat emmiters. Humidity is best kept in the air not on the surface. The best way to do that is to keep the humidity from escaping and I don't mean by trapping it in the soil or substrate. That can cause scale rot from what I hear.

Snakes like to push their noses against stuff and repeated nose rubbing on screens can injure snakes. And that particular flex-watt will only reach 110f without a rheostat unless you sandwich in between 2 objects. And I know he has a rheostat because I made it for him.

Using your water dish to raise humidity is not a good way to do things with a screen top because its going to escape the cage with the heat thats rising off of the surface of the cage. Sealed tops with ventilation are the best way to go. Like he said, heat rises.

Its a good thing some snake keepers do something to make sure they have a stable background temp too instead of subjecting their snakes to what ever air temps are in the same room. Like my room temps of 68f, I'd feel like crap if all of my cages had screen tops, I'd be subjecting my snakes to horrible torture.

Great cage Liquid mage, I would only change the way the things are if you feel that it benifits your snake best. I think the side mounted heat is a great idea with radiant heat devices such as flex watt, the stuff will heat anything that it radiates on including the branches, hide, and the air. And don't bother scuffing up those branches, if your snake dies from that 8 inch fall off those slick branches I will buy you a new one. Lets just keep them the way they are so they are easy to clean and sanitize. Great work on the cage, I think you did an awesome job.

[The_Omen]

Snakes like to push their noses against stuff and repeated nose rubbing on screens can injure snakes.

In the majority of snakes, if there is something wrong with an enclosure they will try and get out. It can be anything from simply being too small or any number of things that can cause stress.

I guess most here like plexi so they can have an enclosure that is not set up properly and THINK there snakes are truly being cared for properly.

I have a screen top for nearly every tank I have, I have only had nose rub on one snake and guess what?
It was in one without a screen top.

In order to have the proper ventilation with plexi, you must make holes in it. Unless you chamfer those holes, then you have effectively made many razor sharp surfaces for the animal to injure itself on.
Screen may be ugly, but with simple ways to keep in the humidity and heat AND allowing proper ventilation for the animals to remain healthy, it works well, especially if you are doing everything else right husbandry wise.


That can cause scale rot from what I hear.

The number one reason for scale rot in most snakes is having to crawl in their own feces for an extended amount of time, typically due to poor husbandry once again.
Some species are sensetive to moisture in the substrate, but like I said earlier, if your tank is set up properly, then you can keep the animals healthy without too many problems.
If you have a species with multiple needs such as a blood, that needs high humidity and also to remain dry at the same time, it can be done with some real thinking during set up.

A base of river rock, topped with plastic sheeting and a layer of bed a beast works well. Put water in the gravel so that the snake is not in direct contact with too much moistness yet can also stay humid if it wants to, or dry when it goes into its dry hide.
The easiest way to accomplish this feat is with screen tops.

The acrylic doesn't provide enough ventilation in most cases to keep the animals healthy due to stale air and the build up of some naturally occuring molds etc, which sometimes plague even us humans.

[stormyva]

Another point in defense of the screen top.....
A screen top is a lot easier to adjust for changing conditions than an acrylic top.... for example during the summer time the temps are higher as is the humidity. I have to cover less of the top otherwise the heat gets too high in the enclosure.
Winter time is less humid and cooler so I have to cover more of the top. With an acrylic or solid top this would not be feasible. Sure a full acrylic or plastic enclosure such as a barrs, vision, or boaphile would be different but we are discussing the normal glass aquariums.

The number one reason for scale rot in most snakes is having to crawl in their own feces for an extended amount of time, typically due to poor husbandry once again.
To elaborate on the above quote...... the substrate does and can contribute to scale rot when it is allowed to become too wet and the moisture is not allowed to evaporate out of the enclosure as would be the case in an enclosure with poor ventilation.

[Jeff_Favelle]

Screens it is then....


Err.....could you show me a setup where at least ONE successful breeder (something more than a Leopard Gecko) is using screen tops in his collection? I'd be veerrrry interested to see that.


:D

[Syst3m]

I'm going to stand with Jeff on this one.

Show me a professional breeder using screen top cages for boids.

[Jeff_Favelle]

Not just Boids Syst3m. Anything (except Chams). I'd love to see it.

[The_Omen]

Show me a professional breeder using screen top cages for boids.

So you really think that snakes and other animals are so worried about their screen lids that it will cause them to be impotent?

As long as all the temp and humid requirements, along with whatever special tricks everyone has to induce breeding are met, then it really does NOT matter if your animals are in wire mesh, cardboard box or even a ziplock baggy.

Horny snakes really don't care where they are as long as everything else is done properly in their husbandry!
(Sorta like young humans)


The biggest reason that most pro breeders use setups like Vision, Neodesha, Boaphile etc, is -
#1- to have some pretty pics as a selling point.
#2- They have an extensive stock which gives them less time for many of the basics, so it's a lot easier to have a tank that hold humids etc. too well so they have to do as little as possible for each snake. (similar to puppy farms) Toss in food once every 10 days, and wait for babies.
#3- Because they can afford to spend several hundred dollars on a small setup.

If you really want to be a big time breeder, Jeff, may I suggest you start inbreeding your snakes to the point of having deformaties, such as the two headed snake, the eyeless wonder, the one eyed wonder, the always ill due to a lowered resistance thanks to the immuno system not working properly etc....

You may also want to start power feeding your snakes to get them big quick so that they can all breed quicker and eventually set a record for your very large, fat snake that is a few gerbils shy of a heart attack.

The point of this argument is to show that the ordinary people can make screen tops work well for them with a little thinking and with a minimul in cost, as not all of us can afford to throw away $$ on things due to needing other things.
The screen top works well, has worked well for years, is still the cheapest top, even if made from scratch.

The husbandry issue is null, since they can be used succesfully and safely for most animals that we keep.

I feel the big issue that is making a few argue is the aesthetic issue.
You are failing to see the forest for the trees.

[Jeff_Favelle]

Cool, glad to see we're staying on topic.





Tongue firmly in cheek.

[Syst3m]

Oh yea, I forgot we were talking about our snakes sex drive.

[The_Omen]

Syst3m
11-21-2002 01:14 PM

Registered: Aug 2002 - Location: Detroit Area - Posts: 490

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Oh yea, I forgot we were talking about our snakes sex drive.




You were.

Show me a professional breeder using screen top cages for boids.
Notice the key word, breeder.

That's ok, others were too...

Err.....could you show me a setup where at least ONE successful breeder (something more than a Leopard Gecko) is using screen tops in his collection? I'd be veerrrry interested to see that.

Cool, glad to see we're staying on topic.

For what? Telling people "Hey THATS COOL!" etc.
Sorry, but I for one am not what I call a sugar coater.
If something can be done differently with the same or better results, then I will speak up on it.
If it bothers anyone, then tough cookies, I am about the animals NOT about who can say 'Thats cool" the most times.

[stormyva]

I think this debate was taken way off the original topic.....
Originally we were discussing Jeff's comment about a screen top cage being a "snake dehydrator". I think that it is fairly clear that using a little bit of thought a screen topped cage can and will provide an excellent home for a snake for it's entire life. Most of us that keep reptiles as a hobby and even some "professionals" do keep snakes in screen topped cages for the convenience.
As far as professional breeders...... I think they use what is the most cost effective means of providing the most square footage of cage space in the smallest amount of floor space. Screen topped, top opening cages are not efficient as far as space is concerned. This I feel is the biggest reason why a professional breeder would use a type of cage that is not screen topped or top opening.

[Syst3m]

How come none of the professional reptile cages you see on the market have screen fronts? Or screen tops?

[stormyva]

Why use screen for a front when glass is more secure and easier to use for a front opening door. It is also less expensive for a manufacturer to use a piece of glass or plexiglass in a sliding track or on a hinge than it would be to create a sturdy, secure frame then install the screen into that frame. As far as screen on the top... screen is not as strong structuraly as plastic or wood. So the stackability and structural integrity of a "professional reptile cage" would be compromised if too large an opening where created in the top for screen.
Folllowing is the reason why a lot of "hobbyists" go for the screen tops......
The plain old glass tank with sliding screen top:
All Glass Brand Snug Fit Cage w Screen Top 40 Breeder 36x18x16 $73.00 USD
VS. The "professional" cage:
Boaphile Plastics Model 221D 30 Wx24 D x 11.5 H $145.00 USD
Vision Cages V222 28 W x 24 D x 24 H $175.00 USD
Closest caging dimension or square footages were used for comparisons.

I would love to send Jeff at Boaphile Plastics $145 for one of his cages. I thnk they are great, but most of the hobbyists that have the space to store the screen topped cages, have families to support, and a bunch of other things going on in our lives can not afford or warrant the need to spend that kind of money for a single cage. Why should I throw out my 40 Gal Snug Fit Breeders when all of my snakes needs are met?
I am not a breeder, nor will I ever be a breeder. I can not bring myself to producing animals that may end up being tossed out with yesterdays newspaper when the buyer decides they are no longer interested in reptiles or when the snake gets too big for them to handle. I will adopt, rescue, or buy knowing that I am going to be able to provide a good, screen topped, home to the animal. ;)
As for the future... maybe my collection will grow to the extent that I need the space saving and convenient features that one of the "professional cages" may provide but for now with my small collection all is great!

[mykee]

What an ingenius setup, those snakes are lucky to have you.

[Jeff_Favelle]

All right, you've convinced me. All my cages are going to be changed to screen. You made some great arguements and I can't rebutt, so I'm making the switch.


Oh yeah, I'm not going to breed them anymore either because I don't want them to be treated like newspaper.

Stay tuned for pics of the new setups! It may take a while.

:D

[The_Omen]

Wow! I expected a little more than that from ya Jeff, like a quart of blood, a scrificed chicken (not KFC, gotta be live!) or something...

[Jeff_Favelle]

Heh heh, wait for the pics.

[stormyva]

Jeff... the debate was never that the "professional cages" are not good cages or great to use for snake.

The whole debate was.... or at least I thought it was.... about:
Can the husbandry requirements be met for a snake in an enclosure with a screen top?

Oh well!

Oh, I cant wait to see those pics :D :D :D