View Full Version : New Pet Shop, Horrible Reptile Keeping
I went to this new pet shop today, which was already looking " un decent" on the out side, I go inside things are a bit sloppy, the shop is the size of a large room... I go to one side where the reptiles are.... I see cages on the ground, a large selection from Green Anacondas to Retics and Monitors.... In one cage in the very back there is a 20 gallon tank with Savanna Monitors as large as the tank is long! There must have been 5-8 monitors pilled on top of each other! I talked to the lady, and said "They will sell soon anyways". It goes to show how horrible pet shops can treat reptiles :( Made me want to buy them all....
CamHanna
01-29-05, 03:37 PM
That's a petshop my friend. Buy the pets and they buy more.
I understand that, they are not like the others shops in the area, many take excellent care of their pets.
beanersmysav
01-29-05, 04:03 PM
In the fairness of pet shops not all of them are like that. None of them hear mismatch animals, although some of their care isnt the best, but I know there's some major breeders out there with large pet shops, so in fairness to them especially not all pet shops are like that.
But yeah that would piss me off to see so many beautiful animals treated wrongly.
All of there reptiles were kept in shavings as well, many had it all in there mouths, they had a custom "Reptile Kit" with shavings and a water dish with no heater......Very sad....
Manitoban Herps
01-29-05, 04:41 PM
There are good pet shops and bad pet shops, just like there are good breeders and bad breeders.
CamHanna
01-29-05, 04:49 PM
Originally posted by Rikki
All of there reptiles were kept in shavings as well, many had it all in there mouths, they had a custom "Reptile Kit" with shavings and a water dish with no heater......Very sad....
Is there something wrong with shavings? Impaction is easily avoided through proper feeding and aspen is not toxic.
Hampster bedding isnt right for reptiles....
CamHanna
01-29-05, 05:22 PM
Why not?
As said above, it is common to be found stuck in reptiles mouths, I have heard many stories of herps choaking on it.
zero&stich
01-29-05, 05:39 PM
I'd like to add my two cents. I agree that most pet stores are absolutely trash and the conditions can be horrendious. No question about that. But keep in mind not all stores have space or can supply themselves with racks, so you will see the same species kept together to save up space. Most of that sort of thing is temporary. As long as you don't see nose rub or scaring from attacks, a sign of severe overcrowding, then its just to take note and warn someone if you see something out of control.
On a side note, I have used aspen bedding for my herps. :)
It doesnt really matter is they dont have the space, they knew what they were ordering from the start. Aspen has many bad sides would not risk it... I did see mild rose nub, and a few cuts on a burm not too serious, though could have been avoided.
zero&stich
01-29-05, 05:43 PM
As said above, it is common to be found stuck in reptiles mouths, I have heard many stories of herps choaking on it. I think you mean impaction. ;) Yes not all shavings is suitable for different herps. It is up to the keeper to decide on account which subtrate works best for the needs of that reptile.
If my pine didn't crap so much, I would still be using aspen bedding.
Aspen has many bad sides would not risk it
And what risks would that be? Most reptuable breeders use aspen for their snakes.
It doesnt really matter is they dont have the space, they knew what they were ordering from the start.
Take in account many stores special order animals everyday for people then decide they don't want it due to ill research. Unfortunatly it happans. Maybe that is what happaned with the savs, since they are a popular monitor for a pet.
As for the nose rub, that's too bad Hope they find good homes.
__________________
Jess Bruce
zero&stich
01-29-05, 05:49 PM
double post :(
Well im going to leave the use of aspen to you guys though I would not risk it after what I have heard..... Many of the herps were in wire cages which may explain the cuts and nose rub....
i believe aspen shavings are toxic are they not?
Geoff
zero&stich
01-29-05, 05:55 PM
Many of the herps were in wire cages which may explain the cuts and nose rub....
Wow?! Really??? That sucks. You mean the cage you would see a G. Pig in? If so, maybe you should write a letter to the editor Rikki and write a complaint bout that store...
Yeah some what like that, though the cage wire is old and rusty.... Horrible, do they really expect to sell the 10ft Burmese in the wire cage soon, i doubt it... They should take care of the reptiles regardless.... KILOS I have heard that before as well, not sure if its true.
JAdkins2451
01-29-05, 11:15 PM
No pine and ceder are toxic...
any heat lamps or anything? if its really that bad you can always call spca or human society
Heat lamps yes on some cages, monitors had no hear sorce. Burm has two 60w bulbs un covered.
so call, only takes two seconds
Originally posted by Rikki
Made me want to buy them all....
Sometimes I wonder if that isn't their ploy...
Originally posted by CamHanna
That's a petshop my friend. Buy the pets and they buy more.
Exactly. By 'saving' those few you are in turn supporting their cause and allowing more animals to be brought in to those conditions.
Originally posted by Linds
Sometimes I wonder if that isn't their ploy...
Exactly. By 'saving' those few you are in turn supporting their cause and allowing more animals to be brought in to those conditions.
agreed so I think the best thing you could do is get the place investigated, just keep calling and maybe you can get the herps to better conditions, i;m sure those conditions would qaulify for neglect or abuse no?
zero&stich
01-30-05, 12:24 AM
though the cage wire is old and rusty.... Horrible, do they really expect to sell the 10ft Burmese in the wire cage soon, i doubt it... They should take care of the reptiles regardless.... I think you should report them Rikki. However I can't imagine a 10 foot anything in any type of cage unless its custom built.
Although I will have to admit, I do kinda find it odd noone else hasn't reported about 10 foot burms or larger pythons kept in such horrendious conditions. I am fairly certain, Rikki isn't the only herp hobbyist in this industry walking into this store, which the more I think about it, the more that it truely puzzles me that no other herper has questioned these conditions and spoken up??
I just find it odd noone in that area of the states has said anything about that store.
They may have, who knows.... The burm is in a wood cage with wire..... Ill call monday once they open and talk to the owner...
zero&stich
01-30-05, 12:32 AM
They may have, who knows.... The burm is in a wood cage with wire..... Ill call monday once they open and talk to the owner...
Awesome! Maybe write a little thingy in a letter to the editor in your local newspaper and shut that craphole down.
I could threaten to post an ad in the newspaper with a few extra bucks, thats a good idea ill call Monday when they open again. :)
timminsreptiles
01-30-05, 01:53 AM
If i were you i would definatly try to do something about this and not give up till something changes. I own a little reptile store and bust my a$$ everyday to make sure my animals are in the best conditions and it really sucks to have idiots like that screw it up for everyone and the animals.
Im taking a humaine officer course because i cant handle seeing this type of stuff happen without doing anything about it and the humaine society here is in great need of staff. trust me once im qualified ill be out in full force.......sorry it just freaks me out hearing and seeing this kind of stuff.
Quote:
"It doesnt really matter is they dont have the space, they knew what they were ordering from the start."
Quote:
""Take in account many stores special order animals everyday for people then decide they don't want it due to ill research. Unfortunatly it happans. Maybe that is what happaned with the savs, since they are a popular monitor for a pet. ""
I dont think cancelled special orders are an excuse to have any type of animal house in improper conditions and not cared for properly. When i do a special order i make sure to take a non refundable deposit to ensure that they come back and i also make sure to have the proper enclosure just in case it happens. These pricks couldnt care less about the animals they have in there store and are only there for the money and that is the number one reason in MO why there are so many sick and mis-cared for animals around. wow if i were open just for he money i wouldve been closed a long time ago
sorry for rambling.........Lucas
timminsreptiles
02-02-05, 02:30 PM
any news?.......lucas
I honestly believe there should be laws against operating pet stores that sell animals.
I know people on this forum are going to say 'some are good' but I don't think it matters: most are AWFUL and even the good ones don't stop people from impulse buying ('because it is so cute') or sympathy buying (as mentioned above).
If you had to get your animals from breeders, I think people would make more informed decisions. And yes, some breeders are just as bad --or worse-- but I think having to go to a breeder would reduce the number of animals that end up being bought and tortured/discarded by morons.
Adam
Double J
02-02-05, 03:14 PM
Don't forget, that without pet stores and importers.. breeders would not have their animals in the first place.
Some food for thought.
That is a good point about importers but I still think pet stores could be eliminated without negatively impacting breeders.
I mean, does anyone NEED to buy a leo from a pet store in order for them to be 'breedable'? Nope. And yes this might be different for less common species but if it is not a common species or morph, you won't find it in a pet store anyway. Just look at venomous reptiles in Canada. They have never been in pet stores (to my knowledge) but you can still get them.
By eliminating pet stores I think forums like this and the BOI would be better able to police and discourage awful breeders more effectively than animal rights organizations (like the humane society) can police awful pet stores. I mean, does the human society even respond to reports of animal cruelty for reptiles? I have heard they do not.
Adam
Double J
02-02-05, 04:23 PM
But if you eliminate pet stores, where does it end? Are private keepers and breeders next? It would be an easy next step for those who wish to ban herpetoculture completely.. ie PETA, Humane society of America (not to be confused with the Humane Society of the United States), as well as any other of those half-baked organizations. I think that banning reptiles from being sold in pet stores sets a dangerous precedent. We as herpetoculturists would be the next target.
We need pet stores. And yes, you often find rare stuff fin places that are devoted to reptiles. Petsmart... not so much.. but places like The Reptile Store in Hamilton have some great rare stuff, and do a fabulous job with their animals. Global Exotic Pets and Port Credit Pets have all kinds of abnormal and rare stuff too. If not fr them.. all we would see in the hobby would be leopard geckos, corn snakes, and beardies.... think that would be a rather boring hobby if it were limited to these three.
Though there are many piss poor pet shops.... there are many good ones. And of course, it will get better. The problem right now is that many ma' and pop stores simply don't know any better. Perhaps some of the sharp young 'uns on this site will open up pet shops in the next 5-10 years..... and that is a comforting thought.
And remember.... that importers are in business because of pet shops. How many private hobbyists actually go directly to importers like Mirdo or Massassauga and buy direct? The number approaches zero...... though there are a few infrequent private buyers. And even if many more did.. orders would likely not be of the same frequency and volume... thus importers would go out of business if they relied only on private hobbyists to buy from them. But hypothetically...... with importers.... what if your proposed pet shop ban on reptile dealing actually went through? People would be buying directly from importers.. and they would then simply become pet stores once again. And where would the line be drawn between a pet store and a hobbyist who makes their living off of their animals? Because they lack a sign on their building they would be exempt?
Don't let the bad examples ruin it for the rest of us.
Double J
I think you are confusing 2 separate but equally important issues: 1) the right to 'own' animals and 2) the right to 'sell' animals.
I firmly believe that people should have the right to 'own' any animal they choose... be it a pit bull, a venomous snake, a lion, a 20 foot python or, a poisonous dart frog. I just think that the MEANS through which you come to acquire such should be regulated and based on what I have experienced, the means through which people acquire reptiles --and mammals for that matter-- is NOT appropriate and is, ultimately, conducive to unnecessary suffering. That is all I am saying. If this should happen to 'ruin it for the rest of you' or, interfere with your ability to acquire an animal, good. I am glad.
And yes, the 'The Reptile Store' in Hamilton is amazing. I cannot think of anything negative to say... unlike the other private stores you have listed.
You say:
If not fr them.. all we would see in the hobby would be leopard geckos, corn snakes, and beardies.... think that would be a rather boring hobby if it were limited to these three.
I disagree with this because, as I have said, I can acquire a hot CB snake without having to go through a them and as a result, I would be equally able to find whatever it is that I should want without having to resort to them. At one point in time, I have contemplated buying from pet stores but I now stand firm in my beliefs. NO to pet stores. I wish other people felt this way.
You say:
How many private hobbyists actually go directly to importers like Mirdo or Massassauga and buy direct? The number approaches zero...... though there are a few infrequent private buyers. And even if many more did.. orders would likely not be of the same frequency and volume... thus importers would go out of business
if they relied only on private hobbyists to buy from them. But hypothetically...... with importers.... what if your proposed pet shop ban on reptile dealing actually went through? People would be buying directly from importers.. and they would then simply become pet stores once again. And where would the line be drawn between a pet store and a hobbyist who makes their
living off of their animals? Because they lack a sign on their building they would be exempt?
I don't have all the answers but forums like this help provide them and that is what is important. In terms of importers, I could care less if they went out of business. WC stuff is garbage and is only critical for the introduction of new morphs and/or bloodlines. For the most part, I think importers would be able to make more money from high end breeders if pet stores disappeared. By eliminating pet stores, the $ value of animals would increase and as a result, importers would take better care of what they import and the animals would end up in better homes (assuming of course that people would take better care of a $4000 pet instead of a $40 pet and I think this is a safe assumption). In other words, I think pet stores create an 'equilibrium value' that is too low for importers and as a result, they need to import too many animals to make a profit. Because they import too much, they are not equip to take proper care of such.
Looking forward to your response,
Adam
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