ontario herpers

[adamofsound]

hey,

well, with spring fast approaching I thought I might like to try some field herping this year. I have never done it seriously, only as a kid finding milk snakes, garters, the odd massassauga rattler etc in the Owen Sound Area (georgian bay/bruce penninsula)

I would like to find some experienced field herpers that would be willing to let me tag along, learn and take a few pics. I now live in the Niagara region but visit the bruce peninsula/owen sound are frequently in the summer (university student, so mom makes free meals and sauble beach is 20 min fom my parents house)

I have seen many herps around st. Catharines (I go to Brock U. and stay all summer becasue there arent any jobs up north) last year while I was mountain biking I saw what I am sure was a bartlets garter, and a few small black snakes with faded grey bands basking on an access road/reservoir levee which leads me to beleive maybe it was a kind of water snake?

I am willing to drive good distances and make day trips out of it.
so, I am going to walk the mountain bike trails and try to get some pictures this summer, but I would love to go with someone who has a better idea of what to look for.
let me know via pm email, or if you are willing to let others get involved, reply to this post and make it public so some of us that want to lear have a way to do it.
thanks very much,
Adam

[MoreliaMike420]

Go to ****** and find some black rat snakes. Those are the best snakes Ontario has to offer in my opinion. They're awsome. I caught four one day when I was camping. It was awsome!

Edited as I agree 100% with Ryan. - Matt_K

[Removed_2815]

Here we go again :rolleyes: More site specific information to decimate our Black Ratsnake populations. It's irresponsible to give out this kind of information on a public forum about a Species at Risk in Ontario.
Ryan

[adamofsound]

forget it, I should have known better than to open my mouth by now.

I dont want to know WHERE to find things, I want to go with someone experienced so I can learn and carry that information until I can teach it to someone else.

after all, didnt all you field herpers benefit from knowledge passed on to you?

[wetlander]

Adamofsound,

Nothing wrong with asking about trips you can go on with other herpers. In fact I think its a great idea. The problem is people posting site specific information about rare species. If someone contacts you and takes you along to a great site that is fine, we just have a problem with posting these sites so potentially 10,000 people or so, some of them unscupulous, know where to find them.

I won't speak for Ryan, but I don't think he's upset about your request just Morelia's post

Doug

[Removed_2815]

Hi adamofsound ,
I'm certainly fine with your post and by no means upset, I just figured someone would PM you if they would be able to bring you out. Not only am I morally bound to keep sites confidential, but I'm also legally bound...

I'm sure Morelia just didn't realize he shouldn't be posting site info (only 20 posts) so I do my best to give a strongly worded piece of advice, so as to not sound like too much of a jerk, but also to express the importance of not posting this information.

Good luck to you and, yes, we all had to start somewhere and gaining trust is the hardest part.
Cheers,
Ryan

[CamHanna]

Provincial parks are great! They always have something interesting (be it herp or otherwise) and are staffed (for the most part) by knowledgeable people who are more than happy to talk with, maybe even show around, interested visitors.

[jason23]

im from st catharines and i never see any snakes so it suprises me you see lots, i guess i dont get oudoors enough

[Jeff Hathaway]

Jason, there are lots of places in your area to see snakes if you look around, but yes, you do need to spend some time outdoors if you want to see them! However, you won't see any Butler's garters (or Bartlet's, for that matter)- Adam, what made you think that's what they were? They do not occur in the area. The other snakes you describe were almost certainly northern watersnakes.

Of course, if you really want to see snakes, come on our Pelee Island trip in May...

Jeff Hathaway
Sciensational Sssnakes!!

[CamHanna]

Posted by Jeff Hathaway
Of course, if you really want to see snakes, come on our Pelee Island trip in May...
Can I come?

[Jeff Hathaway]

Of course! The more the merrier, and the more project work we get done:-)

Jeff Hathaway
Sciensational Sssnakes!!

[adamofsound]

Cam Hanna:

a qick internet search of ontario herps when I got home from the ride that day. ther reasearch I did showed bartlets garters in my area, but I am just an amateur and knew even less at the time I did the ride.
http://www.glfc.cfs.nrcan.gc.ca/landscape/snake_e.html

this was the site, and now that I go back and look, I'd like to correct myself, it was butlers, not bartlets!
sorry about that, it had been many months and I wrote the post based on memory.
Adam

[Cake]

adamofsound, I highly doubt that you saw a Butlers garter where you are. It is a posibility but an extremely small one. I went and looked at another range map just to make sure, and it is extremely unlikly, the majority of sightings are not near the St. Catherines area.

The Butlers garter looks extremly similar to the common Eastern Garter. The most telling sign is a yellow scale above the eye to ID a Butlers, and this is often not very apparent. One would have to look hard for this for it to become apparent. I dont mean to discredit you, but to my knowledge there have been no sightings of Butlers anywhere near St. Catharines. If you are correct you have located a very interesting find however.

[Jeff Hathaway]

Adamofsound,

The map you refer to is confusing. It shows dots for Butler's sightings- note that none of them are near St. Catharines. The vast majority of sightings are near the Lake Huron-Lake St. Clair-Lake Erie corridor. There are 2 outlying populations farther east but not anywhere near the GTA. The coloured areas on the map are potential range based on climatic data, not the actual range.

Supposedly the yellow scale is not always present. The usual ID characteristics of a Butler's are that the lateral stripes are centred on scale row 3 but also occupy the upper half of 2 and the lower half of 4. Also, they have a smaller, shorter head (more like a milksnake head than a garter head). It is not easy at all to tell them from easterns.

Jeff Hathaway
Sciensational Sssnakes!!