Do you guys know about this kinda stuff??

[Lioness]

http://www.greenapple.com/~jorp/amzanim/crossesa.htm

http://members.aol.com/jshartwell/hybrid-mammals.html

..i think its pretty messed up..
what are ur opinions??

[JAdkins2451]

Ive heard and seen A tv show on Ligors, its pretty crazy if you ask me..

[Lioness]

yea..there's this one case that they reportedly had to sedate the lioness inorder to let the leopard mount her and have his way..
here are the pics for it
http://members.aol.com/jshartwell/leoXlioness_2.jpg

"Must a lioness be sedated for the smaller leopard to mount her? Or does she willingly adopt a lying position? Any natural hybrids would require her to be willing. Some have claimed that the zoo pictures below show a very unresponsive, sedated liones, however reports on the Japanese leopons state that 'the lioness voluntarily assumed a position on her side to allow the much smaller leopard to mount her. The photos clearly show affection between the two animals.'Useful reference: P L Florio published a report "Birth of a Lion x Leopard Hybrid in Italy" in International-Zoo-News, 1983; 30(2): 4-6 "

^ messed up..BIG TIME
i got that from the second link i posted earlier

[Lioness]

takes "date rape" to the next level, eh..?

[Rikki]

Crazy yes, its messing up the animal kingdom... The things people do.

[JAdkins2451]

Dont you think since Leopards and tigers have so few number they would try and breed them with each other not mixing animals like that.. Its stupid if you ask me. A waste of time

[wiseman001]

I also say a TV show on a " Lyger "

It stood over 8 feet tall..all white and a enormace girth to this Lyger and only 1 of a kind..I think it was on Maury Povich... and some celebrity Mother had it.. I can't remember her name but she has a some sort of sanctuary of them.. There was also a Movie made about this place with all the tigers... I'm SURE someone will think of her name b4 my next post when i remember it...

[JAdkins2451]

I know exactly who your talking about. She bought the place where it was filmed and thats where here sancturary is.. Its quite interesting.. I just dont remember the name of the movie or actress

[lolaophidia]

Well, I've got a Bengal cat (domestic cat/Asian Leopard cat) hybrid. He's an F4 but was sterile, as males often are. So I got a great pet cat that has spots from the breeder, because he was unable to add to her line. I wish I could have a true wild cat- but really appreciate the fact that my F4 will use a litter box regularly, can live in the house (vs. a large outdoor cage) and has a domestic bond with people (unlike some pure wild cats).
Here's Spot the Bengal cat, in case you're curious...

http://photos.herphost.com/albums/userpics/spot%20loving%20the%20new%20bedding2_112104.JPG

With reptiles, mainly snakes- I worry sometimes about hybrids because it can be hard to tell what an animal is and to figure out exactly how to care for it. What are the optimum conditions for a man made hybrid between a desert adapted animal and a jungle animal, for example? Also, there's such a variety in hybrids that some offspring may take more after one parent or another and be bred by people unknowingly, further muddying the waters for identification.

It's interesting stuff- that's for sure!

[Lioness]

yea..its interesting..yet very questionable.
i think if ur tryna help preserve an endangered species its one thing..but when ur tryna creat a completely different species..thats wrong.
many of these animals are born with disabilities and various health issues. some of these inbred cats die shortly after birth..so sad.

wiseman..heres a pic of what may be talkin about
http://www.greenapple.com/~jorp/amzanim/ligersize.jpg

[ChunkyMunky]

I have always wanted a Bengal cat ever since I went to this reptile store and they had one free roaming, it was the coolest cat i've ever seen. They cost alot for a cat but definately worth it, I need to find a breeder!

Dan.

[Lioness]

chunky..i love ur avatar

[ChunkyMunky]

;) Thanks!

[wiseman001]

O MY GAWD ...

THATS IT..... Thank you...

I think its Melonie Griffins Mother.... EX wife of DON JONHSON..

seein that cat I now remember it

[sidewinder]

Seems a little scary messing with nature like that. I'm sure most of those matings were a freak occurence. Maybe the unatural lives they live in zoos screw them up somehow. I don't think you'd see this happen in nature. The asian lion lives in close proximaty to tigers and leopards and i've never heard of this being recorded as ever happening in nature. Also, I would think thier offspring would all be sterile.

[Adrian]

QUOTE;' Maybe the unatural lives they live in zoos screw them up somehow.'

Yeah EXACTLY! Look what happens to humans in prison... acording to the rumors...

[sidewinder]

Point well taken Adrian. I think your on to something!

[JimmyDavid]

[i] some of these inbred cats die shortly after birth..so sad. [/B]

That's the never endind debate that puzzles most of us. What's worse: To taste life for only a brief period of time, or to never even exist at all?

[Paleosuchus]

JimmyDavid, that does puzzle me but in my opinion has nothing to do with hybrid /inbred animals. They shouldnt even exist to begin with.

[JimmyDavid]

I suppose you are right, but we must always remember that we are way to "little" to see the big picture. What exactly means "they shouldn't exist"? Is always tricky, to say something like that.
Some people use a religious aproach, others a scientific, but either way you lose. If you are the religious kind, it means GOD knows who must or must not exist, not you! Going down the scientific way, you also lose, because the first rule is that nature is cruel and doesn't care about your opinion, if the genes are compatible then it will work, period.
I, for myself, prefer to stay out of those tricky debates. :)

[Lioness]

JIMMY..THAT AS SO WELL SAID.
I APPLAUD U!

BUT WHAT IF U WERE THE SUBJECT IN QUESTION..WOULD U WANT TO LIVE A SHORT AND HARSH LIFE..OR NOT EXIST AT ALL?

JUST WONDERING UR OPINION..I SEE UR A DEEP THINKER.. ;) :D

[Lioness]

Originally posted by sidewinder
Also, I would think thier offspring would all be sterile.
I dont want to say Always..cus i dont like the words "ALWAYS" and "NEVER"..
but MOST of the time..they are sterile.

[Adrian]

meh, give both sides credit... God says yes, as the documents often commented them as "a miracle". Nature then says no... cue the infections. Obviously the will and way exists for a reason. However unclear the reason is. In either case, if it happens, it deserves a fair chance. The more we can learn from such odd combinations the more we learn about ourselves.

[ravensgait]

Now I don't know about big cats but hybrids do happen in nature, one that I've seen is Mule Deer/Whitetail Deer, there are many others out there. Having had cats I can see it happening without having to drug the animals. Had one that use to try to get the dog to breed her.

It's funny the comments that some here have made against cross breeding . How many who think this is wrong have dogs and cats?or any of the reptile Morphs? We've been breeding animals to fit our needs and or desires for ever.
Randy

[BAZ]

Man has always manipulated nature. Its how we got our domestic animals. Most tigers in captivity are privatly owned and really serve no conservation purpose. A lot may be inbred aswell. I have no problem with animals such as Ligers and white tigers. The good zoos are working on conservation of species and good captive breeding policies that ensures genetic diversity so im fine with letting the zoos do their job and private owners enjoying their animals.

Ligers could have naturally been produced in the wild in the past when their ranges overlapped. The asiatic lion could have bred with the tiger.. u never know.

Inbreeding does cause problems in many animals but if we are going to condemn it with big cats then we should also be condemning it in dogs... many breeds come with a list of health problems because they have been selectively bred.

[JimmyDavid]

Lioness, thanks. You show some valid points as well, so i can tell you are an inteligent person ;)

Baz, you took the words out of my mouth (my keyboard, i mean)

[Lioness]

Originally posted by BAZ
many breeds come with a list of health problems because they have been selectively bred.

thats the problem im having with it..that humans think they can play God. If the animals are going to do it in the wild..then so be it..but the babies arent always born healthy and thats something they have to deal with..but when u keep 2 animals (i.e lioness and leopard) in heat for a certain amount of time..and then allow the two to be housed together..its forcefully creating something that wouldnt have been if it wasnt for the third hand involved (humans). the reason they had to drug that lioness was because they know she wouldnt've allowed the leopard to mount her..also they know that physically the leopard cant.. its really not meant to be.
but i guess in this case..its to each their own..
:rolleyes:

[ravensgait]

Lioness, You couldn't get more of an outcross then that!!!!! and beside inbreeding isn't such a bad thing, it happens all the time in nature. Cross breeding often produces mules but other then that the animals are usually very very healthy. Out crosses or cross breeding is often done to help fix genetic problems in a breed. The only thing inbreeding can do is bring out faults that are already there. In itself it does not create any genetic problems.

Do you know for a fact the lioness was drugged? Animals will find a way, I once saw a tinny little mut of about 8 pounds breed a Great Dane. As they say if there's a will there is a way.

For the life of me I can't understand why you have a problem with cross breeding it happens all the time through mans intervention or in nature . Be interesting to know what kind of animals you've owned.
Randy

[BAZ]

Lioness.. I don’t think that cross breeding animals is “playing God”. Like I said... from the beginning when mankind began to interact with animals we have been manipulating them in some way or another. From things like clipping birds wings so they don’t fly away, cropping dogs ears and tails, shaving poodles, etc. Then we have also been selectively breeding dogs to get different breeds, same with chicken and pigeons, cows, goats etc to bring out certain traits whether these are for practical reasons like to give more milk or for purely our own enjoyment. We have now started to do the same with snake morphs and lizards (like beardies). Croc farms will cross breed certain crocs for a higher quality skin. And some people are doing this with big cats.

I can see where you are coming from though.. I would not personally want to cross breed an animal if I know for a fact that this will significantly lower the animals life span and give it major health problems but I would see this happening more in some dog breeds than cross-bred big cats.

[Tim and Julie B]

Originally posted by wiseman001
I also say a TV show on a " Lyger "

It stood over 8 feet tall..all white and a enormace girth to this Lyger and only 1 of a kind..I think it was on Maury Povich... and some celebrity Mother had it.. I can't remember her name but she has a some sort of sanctuary of them.. There was also a Movie made about this place with all the tigers... I'm SURE someone will think of her name b4 my next post when i remember it...

Betty White and Goldie Hahn (or however you spell her last name) also have rescue facilities taking in unwanted Large cats from back yard breeders. They get a lot of ligors.

[JAdkins2451]

So far everyones made pretty goood points, and like BAZ said people have been doing for years with birds, dogs and cats. Which is the same as doing it with wild animals. But gets me the most is that some of these animals are becoming extinct. So why would you want to screw around with it. Why dont they just breed a tiger wit a tiger to increase the population, before they screw around and make ligors or whatever.

[Lioness]

Originally posted by ravensgait
Lioness, You couldn't get more of an outcross then that!!!!! and beside inbreeding isn't such a bad thing, it happens all the time in nature. Cross breeding often produces mules but other then that the animals are usually very very healthy. Out crosses or cross breeding is often done to help fix genetic problems in a breed. The only thing inbreeding can do is bring out faults that are already there. In itself it does not create any genetic problems.

Do you know for a fact the lioness was drugged? Animals will find a way, I once saw a tinny little mut of about 8 pounds breed a Great Dane. As they say if there's a will there is a way.

For the life of me I can't understand why you have a problem with cross breeding it happens all the time through mans intervention or in nature . Be interesting to know what kind of animals you've owned.
Randy

http://members.aol.com/jshartwell/hybrid-mammals.html

if u read that site..u'll understand where im coming from.. alot of those animals are born with physical disabilities..such as in this picture
http://members.aol.com/jshartwell/liger.jpg
notice how his hind legs are so much thinner and MAY BE weaker than his fore legs..this can cause many problems throughout the animals life..such as hip injuries.
btw..my point isnt completely against inbreeding..i just dont agree with it being done forcefully..in captivity. They arent doing this to preserve a species of any kind..they are doing it for they're selfis desires. and yes..i do agree that it has been done for years..but i dont think that makes it ok. if its been done with no negative effects to the animal or the offspring..then thats another thing. BUT if it does cause harm to the animals..then its plain wrong. SOME of these animals live only a short time..and they dont live a happy healthy life.
and yes..reportedly that lioness was sedated..u can see how lifeless she seems in those pictures. also..lionesses dont mate lying on their sides limp and lifeless..they lay, face forward for the most part..as the lion would then mount her.

as for what animals i've owned..i honestly dont think that is relevant.

i have said before..and will say again..TO ALL THEIR OWN.

[kaa]

the womans name was tippy and the movie was roar