What's your opinion on breeders websites? [Archive]

BoidKeeper

01-20-05, 12:11 PM

Personally I used to get annoyed with people who produced one clutch of corns and a clutch of balls every year making websites that tried to make themselves' sound like professional breeders. I’m not trying to make light of their accomplishments but does that level of production warrant a website?
My take on it is if you're doing this as a hobby maybe you don't need a website. Then again, for some people the website is part of their hobby too. I've always felt that websites imply something, a certain level of professionalism. It just seems to me that there are a lot of things left unsaid in websites and a lot that is said that can be misleading. For example, I will never refer to the room or two rooms I use in my home to house and breed my snakes in as a "facility". The Sutherlands have a facility. I can see why they need a website.
Don't get me wrong I'm not saying I'm for hobbyist having them or against them, I'm really on the fence. I see people who don't have them that probably should, Roy Stockwell for example and then there are people like me with them. I'm not sure if I need one/want one or should even have one but three people recently have asked me when I was getting one or if I had one. I had someone working on a small one for me once but it was for free and it never got finished. I'm glad too because it shouldn't have been for free but at this point I'm too cheap to shell out for one.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, I'm a schoolteacher first and breeding snakes is a hobby. Yes I'll sell what I produce if I can but I'm not interested in trying to make myself look like something I'm not and I feel that if I get a website it will do that.
A website with nice catch phrases and cropped pics may help someone look better but it seems to me breeders should be focusing on the quality of their animals and not their websites. If you sell great animals and have a clean reputation why do you need a website? How many sites do you see that have "nothing available right now" in the available section almost all the time?
So what's your opinion on herp websites? Do they help breeders sell animals? If so, how do you think they help sell animals?
Thanks for the feedback,
Trevor

Vengeance

01-20-05, 12:44 PM

I haven't started breeding yet, but when I do I will most likely setup a website. I won't use words like facility and I'm not going to try and make myself out as anything more then a hobby breeder. But since a major part of the herp community is online it does help with visiblity. Even just to have it in your sig on this website helps. I may only be a hobbiest but the stock I do intended to sell, I'd like to make sure that I do sell it and if a website helps with that I don't see anything wrong with it.

Misrepresenting yourself as a big time breeder on a web site is not what I would be going for. I still want to produce high quality animals, but once the website is up and the inital setup is complete, the updates can take as little as 5 mins so really the time spent on maintaining a website is minimal. I know for me, my girlfriend is really good at web design and since she doesn't help out at all with the snakes, I'm going to recurit her to do my web design. I'll spend my time on the snakes, she'll spend her time on the web site.

Adam

Tim_Cranwill

01-20-05, 01:11 PM

I see no reason NOT to have one. I can understand where you're coming from with most of your points and I agree with a lot of them BUT... :D "<i>If you sell great animals and have a clean reputation why do you need a website?</i>", again, why not? I don't need to qualify for a web site. I wanted one, I know how to build one and I built one. It’s as simple as that. :) (I know you're not speaking about me personally :p)

I don't believe in making yourself out to be something you're not. All of us have learned where that can get you. But should a hobby breeder that wants a web site use poor grammar, crappy pics and etc just so they don't "look too professional"? I goes both ways, I guess.

My goal in building my web page was to have a purpose. Those purposes at the moment are to; sell animals, show pictures, give info, link to useful pages and to create a name for myself. That's about it, really. I took what I liked and disliked about other breeder's sites and went from there.

My aim wasn't too look like a "professional" but I was not about to NOT use my good ideas (as good as I am capable of! :D) and skills (what few I have! :D) to avoid looking like a "professional". That makes no sense to me at all.

I think, if you want a site, get one. If you don't want one, don't. The public will decide over time if your site is useful or not. People won't go back to it if it serves them no purpose... plain and simple. :)

BoidKeeper

01-20-05, 01:53 PM

Those purposes at the moment are to; sell animals, show pictures, give info, link to useful pages and to create a name for myself.
Ah yes the KISS method. One pro to having a site is that you don't have to post a pic every time you take one!lol People can see your stock and some of your offspring in one place. Saves you time too buy not having to create post after post every time you want to show your stuff.
to avoid looking like a "professional". That makes no sense to me at all.
I don't mind looking like a pro in the sense that people see and correctly get the impression that things are done right in my "room" but people can get the wrong idea and think that you are trying to look like a leader in the business. It's all about how peoples perspectives. I'd have to write something like, "Yes I use some professional equipment and care for my animals like a pro but this is my hobby not my job."lol
I like the idea of here's who I am, here's what I do, here's what I have, email me if you have any questions etc.
What about a testimonials page Tim? Ever thought of that?
Cheers,
Trevor

Manitoban Herps

01-20-05, 02:03 PM

Well mine was simple to make and I was lucky enough to get my own domain for free from a friend. I have had a few geckos hatch under my care but I still think it's ok for me to have a site.

Maybe one I thing I should change is where it says "Captive Bred And Born Reptiles" as my title. But that could mean a few things ;)

I have a feeling your talking about my site or a freewebs.com site.

Tim_Cranwill

01-20-05, 02:07 PM

Thought about it but never considered it. It comes across like ego stroking to me (IMO). Would anyone actually put a bad testimonial up and would the webmaster keep it up for long? I doubt it. For products, yes but for "breeder reviews", it looks tacky to me. :) JMO

mykee

01-20-05, 02:08 PM

(had to do a "once over" of my site to make sure I didn't use the word "facility").

Trevor this is a great topic to have brought up with the breeding season upon us, and many, many new breeders hoping to break on the scene in 2005. The reason that I had a website done was twofold; I've produced animals before, and what I think a website does is give you some credibility, and to act as a sort of "safety net" for a first time buyer. I know when I first started out, I looked for breeders with a website so that I could learn about what type of person he/she was, and how serious they were about what they were doing; research of sorts. Even now, I am weary about purchasing an animal from someone who doesn't have a website (updated or not) as I get the feeling that; 1. They have something to hide, and 2. they aren't as serious about the hobby/business as maybe I would like them to be, to feel that they don't need to take their "hobby" to the next level professionally.

If you are selling a product and want to be seen by the most people possible, a website is quite honestly, the only way. The internet is undeniably the premier medium to get your name out there and get noticed. Whether you have ten animals to sell or 1000 animals to sell. A website is the new "Word of Mouth" for the digital era. Where else can something as easy as a website be seen by millions of potential customers?

The second reason I had a website done is because I am proud of my hobby, of the knowledge and hands-on experience that I have amassed over the years, and I want to share that with anyone willing to look, to put a personal touch to a handle on a forum. I have a certain pride in what I do, and I want people to see that by the time and effort that I have put into a website/design. I feel that your website speaks for you, to your customer; the potential customer that can't make it to your table for a face to face meeting at an obscure reptile show that may be attended by 1000 people. For those that live "off the beaten path" geographically, who would otherwise have gone unnoticed regardless of quality.

I do feel that a website is not a substitute for good customer service, willingness to share stories and information, or good quality animals and business practices. Many in this hobby have stellar websites but are too cocky, arguementative, have poor people skills and rest on the laurels of their great website or name to sell their animals for them. I feel that a website simply gets people to notice you and that regardless of website or not, a reputation is earned, rather than bought. You can have the greatest, most expensive website around, but if you can't follow that up with a good knowledge base, great interpersonal skills, high quality animals and generally a good disposition, a website is not going to save you. In the end it comes down to what you; a person, a breeder, a teacher, a friend have to give to a the hobby that makes you or breaks you, not your website.

BoidKeeper

01-20-05, 02:09 PM

Hey Kevin. I wasn't pointing out anyone’s site in particular but if the shoe fits...

HeatherRose

01-20-05, 02:14 PM

I have a site, and it's mostly right now just a 'home base' for any classified ads I have up. I also write a lot of articles for school, and I like to have a place to post them. I've been sure to stay away from using terms like 'we have this available', or 'we are located' etc. To avoid making myself seem like something I am definitley not. I definitley don't have a 'facility', or a little staff of minions to boss around (unless you count my little sister? :p), and I don't intend to make it seem like I do. I breed for experience, the challenge and to cover the cost of food for my animals for the most part.

I agree with you though Trevor, I see a lot of people with sites like that. I say to each his own though, sometimes selling off or providing information about a clutch of something recently hatched can be easier with a website to do it from. I do get irked by people who represent themselves as something they are not, however.

If you are selling a product and want to be seen by the most people possible, a website is quite honestly, the only way. The internet is undeniably the premier medium to get your name out there and get noticed. Whether you have ten animals to sell or 1000 animals to sell. A website is the new "Word of Mouth" for the digital era. Where else can something as easy as a website be seen by millions of potential customers?

Well put Mykee!

Manitoban Herps

01-20-05, 02:19 PM

Well this has made me been doing a bit of thinking.. :p

Does this bother anyone, www.manitobanreptiles.co.nr ?

beanersmysav

01-20-05, 02:23 PM

I must say anyone who wants a website who breeds any type of reptiles should have one. I've got one that took literally minutes to make the design but I'm working on detailed care sheets etc. I find that there's not enough reptile websites with good information on them and it's even harder to find the ones that do. And WHEN I do start producing larger amounts of animals than I will start to advertise but for now I just want to work on getting all the basics done etc. and there's nothing really wrong with sound professional I feel weither you breed a pair of leos or 12 pairs of 12 different reptiles the need for professionalism in some ways needs to be there. No one will buy from someone who seems like a 10 year old kid talking. I think it's more intelligence coming out than tryin to sound professional. I know this wasn't directed to anyone in particular but I don't have any animals listed under currently available however I have a 1.4 group of bearded dragons ready to breed in spring, 2.5 group of leos, 1.6 group of cresteds ready in the spring 1.1 currently breeding now, corn snakes, pictus etc but just have nothing to sell at the moment. (The reason those #'s are different from the ones below is because a buddy of mine is letting some of my males in with his females of the same species so we're splitting those babies right down the middle giving me more I'll have to find homes for or keep)

Not tryin to harp on you in anyways just my oppinion and thoughts, and also sorry if I repeated something someone already said but I had to give my oppinion since I'm one of those people with an empty currently available list.

latazyo

01-20-05, 02:24 PM

I would have never heard about Jeff Favelle or Greg Maxwell if it weren't for their websites and they are all said to produce great animals with a good reputation

how else do you sell? rely on shows? make cold calls at a calling center?

BoidKeeper

01-20-05, 02:35 PM

Remember I never said I was for or against people having a website to sell one clutch of Leos. I'm just looking for peoples opinions on this topic. I don't think it's one we talk about enough.
mykee you made some great points.
I guess one reason why I'm not too worried about having a site is because I've always tried to whole sale my stuff. I'd rather spend time with my breeders then caring for hundreds of offspring all season waiting to take the next $250 box to the airport. I like a fast turn around, produce them, establish them and then ship them. If this is my approach then do I still need to invest in a website to sell a few pastel balls? There will probably so many pastel balls in Ontario this year I'll have to wholesale mine anyway. Who is going to pay shiping from NB on an animal they can get in just about every other province?
I'm still undecided. I like you points though mykee and I share a lot of the with you.
Cheers,
Trevor

BoidKeeper

01-20-05, 02:37 PM

HeatherRose

01-20-05, 02:42 PM

Oh and one more thing. If your wife or girlfriend helps you clean snakes one in a while does that mean you can use "We" a long with "our"? I think a lot of these people have multiple personality disorder beacause most breeders out there live with their wife and kids and don't have partners so where is this "We" coming from?
Trevor

I've noticed this too Trevor... that's 'representing yourself as something you're really not' in my opinion. I make a POINT to say "I have this available", etc. Just because my sister helps me mist my animals, should I say 'we'? :p In my opinion, no.

I would have never heard about Jeff Favelle or Greg Maxwell if it weren't for their websites and they are all said to produce great animals with a good reputation

I agree with this too. I love going on bigger breeders' sites just to check out their perspective, and learn something.

mykee

01-20-05, 02:54 PM

"We're" a "we" simply because we share a lot of the duties. Just because you don't hear from my better half online, doesn't make her contributions to the family and the hobby, any less tangible. I've known first hand "couples" who have "shared" the responsibilities of keeping reptiles, and let me tell you, I love my Tania more and more every day. Her understanding, patience, support, acceptance, genuine interest and appreciation of the hobby has meant more to me than all the cleaning, watering, feeding and paperwork she could do in a lifetime. I'm blessed. That's why "we're" a "We".

clint545

01-20-05, 02:55 PM

Great Thread! First off, I'd like to one day be at the point in my hobby were I feel the need for a website. It's like you said Trevor , what's the point of having a site, where 80% of the time you won't have any animals availible? I've been to a few sites, where all their breeding stock is maybe just a couple of leos, that they picked up at the local pet store.
I understand the enthusaism(sp), but don't see the need to call themselves pro. breeders.

What irks me with the big websites, is their lack of updates. I've had the net since last May and there's still one site, still hasn't update theirs to date.

But lastly, I love checking out all the sites big or small, just to see what people have, $, and other info.

clint

BoidKeeper

01-20-05, 03:04 PM

Maybe in your case mykee you do actually receive help from your wife and therefore using we would count. But I think you'll agree that in most cases the people using we should actually be using I.
Cheers,
Trevor

honduranfreekk

01-20-05, 03:05 PM

Trevor then I must say Iam guilty of this also as I say WE all the time lol.

When I place an add I say WE are looking for or have this for sale.
The reason being is that I think of my wife as my partner because she helps with the animals also and when WE see I said it again;) are looking to purchase something its not just me but my wife also.
I also DO know what you are saying tho Trevor.

Just my 2cents bro lol

Kelvin@Brigitte

BoidKeeper

01-20-05, 03:07 PM

Yes animals are only available once a year mostly but the rest of the time I guess the site serves to show the dealers terms, care sheets and their breeding stock.
If I do get a site I'll be posting infor about things we learn as we go, like sticking heat pads to glass, heat rocks, handling after feeding etc.
Once last pet peeve is "I've been passionate about herps since I was just a baby...."lol You know what I mean.
This hobby is worth then the race for the moon sometimes.
Cheers,
Trevor

spidergecko

01-20-05, 03:14 PM

Does it really matter how many people are involved in a business?
Do you have more respect for a team business?
Would you be just as concerned if a team business used the term "I" instead of "we"?

snakers55

01-20-05, 03:25 PM

I agree with you Trevor.. What I think is worse though, is people making websites who havn't even bred an animal at all!! "When my baby snakes grow up in 5 years, I will have offspring available"..

Manitoban Herps

01-20-05, 03:30 PM

I don't see how this matters, it bothers you b/c people are making sites and are acting proffessinal when they aren't? It's not hurting anyone or anything is it?

Tim_Cranwill

01-20-05, 03:39 PM

We are a "We" because she's my WIFE, it's OUR money, OUR animals and OUR house. Granted I do all the work and it's my hobby but she is the one that has to hear make talk about it hours on end and she makes a lot of the decisions with me... therefore, we're a "We". :)

Siretsap

01-20-05, 03:39 PM

I think it is the impact of the We that makes people use it more often. Personally, when I see a webcite using I, I am less inclined to buy from that person than a webcite that has we, implying there are more than one people taking care of the reptiles. It does look less professionnal when you use I rather then We.

I always use the We cause my girlfriend is just as implicated in reptiles, as I am, we both have our reptiles and we consider all of them to be ours not just mine or hers. I will never put up a webcite with I anywhere in it.

I am not working on a webcite yet, I have other things to tend to, but when I will get the time, you can be sure I will put one up. Even if I would only sell leopard geckos, I would put a webcite up. I do not consider someone only selling cornsnakes or a clutch of regular ball pythons to be less professional than someone producing high end morphs. I have better respect for someone producing what is hard to do (not hard to get since it costs money).

Saying this, I have to give a hats up to Geckoboy. He has been breeding different species of geckos that are sometimes hard. Even if those geckos are hard to sell (cause he sure isn't doing it for the money when he does some fan toed or pictus) he will breed them, and sell them for way less than it has cost him to produce them.

Michael

honduranfreekk

01-20-05, 03:42 PM

Originally posted by Tim_Cranwill
she is the one that has to hear make talk about it hours on end and she makes a lot of the decisions with me... therefore, we're a "We". :)

Now Tim my man I could not have said that ANY better and I think my wife will AGREE on this one 100% lmao ;)

Kelvin@Brigitte

morph

01-20-05, 03:53 PM

Actuall Trevor I believe the "we" is a "we" alot of times alot of breeders work with other breeders and people just don't know it, one breeder doesn't want to take all the credit so says "we" if you ask they may just tell but sometimes the other half or other parts of the group don't even want to be known.

Man that's hard to read must get sleep

Scott

beanersmysav

01-20-05, 03:55 PM

Have to say WE myself because my girlfriend cares for the leos 100% and helps clean out the more difficult cages I have to clean. Not too mention she paid for 1/2 of my tanks, and over 1/4 of my reptiles if not more. Also I have to see WE on my website because I'm working alot with another small time couple around here that own only 8 pairs of reptiles themselves and wanted to join together business wise so we weren't so small and maybe go to some shows together and set up a table.

hhw

01-20-05, 04:10 PM

All I have to say is marketing, marketing, marketing and cost benefit.

It never hurts to have some extra marketing working for you. A website gives customers something concrete to look at, and is a replacement for a physical location. How frequently updated, how well organized, and how attractive a site is is just extra information for a customer to work with. You can be a bad guy with a website or a good guy without one, but if you've taken the trouble to make a good website (or shelled out the bucks for somebody else to), it will suggest to the customer that you are willing to work hard to make the sale.

As for cost benefit, it sure as heck doesn't make sense to spend a few hundred bucks on a website if you're just gonna sell a few corn snakes for a few dollars profit each. However, I think a lot of the "hobbyists" with websites are people who have created their own. As you've suggested, making the website is part of the hobby for them, so it's well worth it for them.

I for one was a computer science major and ran the student paper of my university's website for years, so making a website is pretty trivial for me (in terms of technological capabilities, not the time involved). I have one semi-finished actually, with php + MySQL. With the php done, all I have to do to update the site is make entries in the MySQL database. By just coding some frontends to the database I'll be able to have all kinds of searches and other nifty features, showing parentage, weights, siblings, breedings, etc... Not only will it work well as a website, but it'll be great for my own record keeping as well. Now, it could be one of if not the most technologically advanced websites out there for herps once it's done (not necessarily good otherwise as I have no inclination towards designing graphics whatsoever). I might not even have produced anything yet at that point, but for me sharpening my php + MySQL is more purposeful than selling the herps themselves. And I may even release the backend part as open source or sell the it with snippets of code for the frontend as a service for people to do their record keeping or to integrate into their websites.

BoidKeeper

01-20-05, 05:37 PM

It's not hurting anyone or anything is it?
Just the person who looks foolish that owns and operates the site if it's trying to make them look like something they and it aren't.

As for the "We" thing. When the Sutherlands use it I think that counts. It's my wifes money too, it's her house too and she helps me once in a while but at the end of the day I'm the breeder, not us. Unless she owned some of the snakes and cared for them and breed them and set up the incubators herself I'll contniue to use I.
Cheers,
Trevor

morph

01-20-05, 05:50 PM

Trevor when the word "we" is used alot of times it's cause 2 breeders were involved ie: breeding loans

scott

Matt_K

01-20-05, 05:54 PM

The use of the 'we' or 'us' doesn't bother me as much as people who steal pictures from other breeders and use them on their site.. If you can pay for webhosting and pay for all your animals and food, you can buy a digital camera!! :D

Same goes for classified ads.. Why make people email for pictures when you can just upload it and post it????? (never understood that)

-Matt (Guilty of using 'we' but I have an excuse... I don't work on my site and 'we' was put in there by someone else!)

spidergecko

01-20-05, 05:54 PM

Originally posted by BoidKeeper
Just the person who looks foolish that owns and operates the site if it's trying to make them look like something they and it aren't.

And how exactly are they looking foolish - because you think they look foolish?

I think you are the only one who really cares.

BoidKeeper

01-20-05, 06:08 PM

I think you are the only one who really cares.
Maybe so but I did ask for peoples opinions on websites and that just happens to be mine. I think small poorly made sites with pop ups spelling and gramer mistakes and pics of two leos and a corn and a write up that sounds like these geckos and corns were produced in "their facility" look foolish to me.
It's like putting wax on a rusty car, what's the point? I think that a website is a step towards promoting yourself as breeding animals on a more professional level or even for a living. But if you're doing it in your bedroom in your one room apt then I think a website in that case is like putting wax on a rusty car. Under the wax there still lies a rusty car. This is why I'm on the fence about whether or not I want a site. My collection is nice but small and I'm not producing $10,000 animals. Personally I would feel more comfortable with a site if my collection was more prestigeous. Again I keep coming back to perception and how people perceive other people with sites and that again is why I asked for peoples opinions.
Cheers,
Trevor

morph

01-20-05, 06:28 PM

OK you just totally lost me with that post as the biggest breeders in the country with their websites and all breed in there "bedroom" and spare bedroom and they are producing 6 figures in animals not just 10k heck I produced like 30k in animals if you go by full retail but I don't even have a website and they were also bred in a spare bedroom. Or as I like to call it "My Facility" but hell I call my bedroom the workshop and my bed is of course the work bench:D

Scott

morph

01-20-05, 06:39 PM

ooops $10,000 animals not $10,000 in animals

my bad never read posts and reply on no sleep

Scott

geckoguy157

01-20-05, 06:53 PM

Ya i think that there is nothing wrong with small breeders having a website. Lots of the time you will find the best quality from the small time breeders as much more time and care is able to be put into houseing and careing for there reptiles. Also the canadian market in my opinion is realy not big enough at the moment to realy rely on reptile show's so creating a website is a great way for many people to show off and sell there animals. I would personaly encourage it its a great way to meet new people and find excelent new breeders i know there are many breeders that arnt large scale that breed high quality animals that if i would have not seen there website i would have never discovered well thats my 2 cents.

marisa

01-20-05, 07:13 PM

No way! I totally used the page I threw up to sell off baby corns. Totally. I had them all photographed, with records and prices. It worked amazing. I was simply telling people the url, and they could see each snake and stuff.

They were cheap snakes, but it helped sell a few.

I like sites that show truely whats going on though. Sites that SAY "Hey we arent pros, this is a hobby" and do not try to pretend they are something they aren't.

What I really do not like is all the business names. I prefer breeders name.

Marisa

Siretsap

01-20-05, 07:19 PM

I still have trouble understanding people who think that a big breeder is someone who has high end morphs. Heck most of the times, these people only know how to breed the type of snake he has.

I think a big breeder is someone who has knoledge and experience in breeding many different species.

A corn breeder is just as good as an albino ball python breeder, the only difference is the price he paid for his snakes. And personally, the corn breeder will have to put in more time feeding the babies than the ball breeder will have to...

Brent Strande

01-20-05, 07:42 PM

I also think that this thread is coming off a little high and mighty.

A website is a GREAT way to get your name out there! Especially if you aren't a big name breeder! Without having a name that most people in the industry recognize, how do you expect people to find you to buy your animals?

If you don't have a good way to sell your animals, then you shouldn't be breeding! I think that it's smart to have a site up sooner than later, as you can see what kind of traffic it gets, if you have people interested, and what kind of response it gets. If your site is doing what you want, then you should be fine breeding the animals, as you've got a responsible way to move them!

As for the WE part, that could be many things... Many people find that using "I" all the time sounds selfish and egotistical. I did this, and I did that... Who really cares!?!?

If you are a hobbyist and have a full-time job beside herps, without a website, how do you expect people to get their questions about you answered? A website is available 24 hours a day, so they can be up at 4am cruising your site, seeing what you do, who you are, what you've got, and then they also have your contact info, whether it be snail mail, email, or phone! All that without you even knowing it!

From a business standpoint, especially in the herp market where shipping is used so often, it makes NO SENSE to me at all to try and breed animals without a way to advertise them!!!

As for wholesaling them, I think that many people like to know where their animals are going, so that they don't have to worry about them being crammed into some warehouse, possibly forgot about, as it's "just one of 1,000"

Well, I really ranted there, but I saw this thread earlier and had no clue why people wouldn't like that others have a website!

I'll admit it, I've got a site and zero breeding experience (other than what I'm currently working on...) and I have a site. Yes, it is a FREE site, but why pay for a site until I am actually making money from the hobby? Then it will be justified, but for now I am using it as a marketing tool to try and get my name out there. Just one of the perks of posting on forums like this too, so that people can know you through a web presence!

Jeff_Favelle

01-20-05, 07:57 PM

I never update my site, I built the ruddy thing myself, I hardly ever take out a classified, but let me tell you, if I didn't have that site, I would be sitting on 442 babies from 2004 right NOW as I type this, instead of 23.

The internet and WWW are the SINGLE best tools that a breeder has to sell animals. Those 2 things DRAMATICALLY changed the scope of the game. As for people who haven't even bred anything, yet have business cards, websites, flyers, TV ads, bla bla...ha ha, yeah its kind of funny. They are only hurting themselves as the wasted time and effort could be spent on actually producing a SINGLE animal. But then again, its THEIR time and money and they aren't hurting anyone, so to chastize them for it is kind of wrong. Actually, really wrong. Its like people chastizing us for keeping snakes as pets. We don't like that when that happens, do we? So how can we bother other people for doing what THEY want to do? Kind of works both ways....

And the REAL motto of all this? DON'T GIVE A FRIG WHAT ANYONE ELSE IS DOING! LOL! If we did, then all anyone would ever do is breed Ball Python morphs and bicker with each other on the Queensnake forums.......oh wait, that's what I do (minus the Ball Morph breeding, ha ha)....

....just do what you want, and you'll be happy. If other people's shizznit makes you unhappy, then you'll ALWAYS be unhappy.

Jeff_Favelle

01-20-05, 07:59 PM

I'm guilty sometimes of using the "we", but when I do, I'm refering to "me and my snakes". LOL! We're like a family over here, so that's that.

;)

morph

01-20-05, 08:27 PM

Yes but you can also "we" the projects you and Ian do together.

Even though he doesn't do anything!:D

Just kiddin Ian if you didn't fatten those females up favelle would be hurtin!!!

:D :D

Scott

dave68

01-20-05, 08:49 PM

Originally posted by BoidKeeper
I think small poorly made sites with pop ups spelling and gramer mistakes and pics of two leos and a corn and a write up that sounds like these geckos and corns were produced in "their facility" look foolish to me.

Is gramer not spelled wrong???LOL!!!
And as for the we thing it is Dave and I therefore we often refer to us as we, makes sense to me, I guess if your single then yeah saying we would be stupid. Just my opinion though
Allison

Matt_K

01-20-05, 08:55 PM

Originally posted by dave68
Is gramer not spelled wrong???LOL!!!

AHAHHA, I didn't wanna be the one to point out the irony. :D

-Matt

JonD

01-20-05, 08:58 PM

Web sites are good. The only problem I have is, that Jeff hasn't been using his fancy papertowels in his pictures lately:mad: ......:D

BoidKeeper

01-20-05, 08:59 PM

I was simply telling people the url, and they could see each snake and stuff.
That is a good point and probably the most convincing argument for why I may want to get one. What you're describing makes life so much easier.
I think a big breeder is someone who has knoledge and experience in breeding many different species.
Exactly. Roy Stockwell is not selling super pastel balls but he is probably the most accomplished breeder in Canada and he doesn't have a website.
A lot of good points have been raised here, more pros than cons that's for sure.
So far this is what I'm picking up on that I like,
A site is a nice compact place to post info about your self and your animals that may help to eliminate email answers to people questions.
All your breeding stock can be posted there along with the individual offspring you have for sale, including price and details.
I like how Henry's site is layed out like that a bit.
The terms of sale can be posted etc.
So I'd have to say that the majority of members feel that sites are good and if you want to sell animals more often they're a must.
Cheers,
Trevor

BoidKeeper

01-20-05, 09:04 PM

Its like people chastizing us for keeping snakes as pets.
I did say though that for some people no matter how small having a website is just as much a part of the hobby for them as the herps themselves. I never said anyone shouldn't have a site, I was just sharing my opinion about how I feel about some of them and I was wondering what other peoples perceptions/opinions where of all sites big and small.
Cheers,
Trevor

BoidKeeper

01-20-05, 09:13 PM

Is gramer not spelled wrong???LOL!!! AHAHHA, I didn't wanna be the one to point out the irony.
I'm sorry is this my website? Am I worried about typos and spelling mistakes here? Uh, no.
You want irony I'm a schoolteacher making good money to spend on snakes and I can't spell, there's your irony. I'm doing better then most members who can spell so I'm not too concerned about making spelling mistakes because in the end I'm still coming out a head with my fair salary wonderful benefits and excellent pension spelling mistakes and all. A stupid person doesn't know he can't spell, a smart person does and pays someone to do it for him when the time comes because he can.:p
Spelling has never been used to gage a persons intellegence. A person's ability to spell is like their ability to play sports, some have it, some don't. In my case I have neither.lol
Cheers,
Trevor
*edited* for spelling.lol

Matt_K

01-20-05, 09:17 PM

Trevor, go back and read the comment.. You're the one that said that you don't like seeing websites that have spelling errors.. Yet your posts are overflowing with them.. THAT is ironic.. No harm was meant, as you know, I bust your ba.. chops about it all the time..

BoidKeeper

01-20-05, 09:22 PM

I know you do Matt and no offence was taken but this isn't my website where I'm trying to sell anything. That's why I don't see the Irony. If I made a statement like that on my own personal website then yeah I'd see the Irony but since this is a forum, I guess you could say it's lost on me.
Cheers ball breaker!
Trevor

Matt_K

01-20-05, 09:27 PM

Hey, I said CHOPS!!! Anyway, Stay on topic..

-Matt

BoidKeeper

01-20-05, 09:31 PM

Fine. How do I get a name? You know www.boidkeeper.com or www.justsnakes.com?
Cheers,
Trevor

hhw

01-20-05, 09:54 PM

You need to register the domain. Then you need to have DNS servers that point the domain name to the IP address of the website you're running off. Finally, you need to host the site somewhere.

A lot of web hosts will do all 3 for you, which is probably what you should look for if you're not into running your own servers.

By the way, it's never good for someone to make themselves look like something they're not. A website itself doesn't necessarily do that, but if the content on a website misleads the browser as to what the breeder is really like it is definitely a bad thing. In other words, don't blame the medium, blame the person abusing it.

CamHanna

01-20-05, 10:03 PM

I don't mind the small breeders, or even non-breeders, with websites.

There are really only two things I want to see on these pages though, the 'About Me' section and the 'My Collection' section. If you don't have anything available then you don't need an 'Available' section; especially one that is subdivided into Pythons, Boas, Milks, Corns and Rats when all sections are empty. Clicking and loading all these empty sections is a waste of my time. I'd much rather look at your collection and contact you if you work with anything that I'm interested in.

Edit: Trevor, I'd go with boidkeeper.com. I associate 'Boidkeeper' with you much more strongly than I do 'Just Snakes'

Asian Jon

01-20-05, 10:04 PM

Hey hhw, how is the security on using your own pc as a webserver using PHP and MySQL on a windows system? I have done it before, but wasn't really quite sure about how safe it was. I used www.no-ip.com. I found it a great way of puting up a site for free without all the banners and such like geocities.

Slannesh

01-20-05, 10:16 PM

just did a quick check.

Boidkeeper.com is available... as is .net .us .org .ca :) You get the picture.

justsnakes.com is already registered to some guy in Georgia but .net .ca .us and .org are free.

As to the topic at hand.

I like seeing a website for someone i'm dealing with. But i've been a net geek for many years now so it's a medium that I understand and like dealing with.

I definitely agree with Marisa's statements about it making selling even a single clutch very easy. You can put up all sorts of information that would take a long time to explain in person or on the phone. Not to mention the old adage "A picture is worth a thousand words" Especially when dealing with morphs... If we'd never seen what they look like no one would care about all the Leo, BP and Dragon morphs out there.

I do have to agree with Trevor as well, I would hesitate to deal with someone who had a website riddled with spelling errors or was just too 'casual'. That's not to say I expect the full meal deal of a professionally done site complete with Java and PHP goodies but if I were to see "Yo, i's gots 3 corn snakes fer sale. only $29 dolers each" I personally would look elsewhere.

A website can be a great advertising tool but it can easily do as much harm as good when done poorly. All depends on what you're trying to accomplish I guess.

spidergecko

01-20-05, 11:14 PM

Aside from poor spelling and grammar, misuse of frames can make even the best site look really bad. Blurry pics I can usually deal with but scroll bars everywhere bugs me.

marisa

01-21-05, 09:39 PM

Agree with Spidergecko here! I HATE frames, especially tacky old HTML ones. There is no place on the internet for those type of frames these days. LOL

Marisa

greenman1867

01-21-05, 10:46 PM

How about the Boa owner who happens to have a breeding pair and by fate is also a total computor geek? Building websites can be as much a passion as Herps. So why not combine the two?
To be honest, I am kinda dissapointed with some of the people here who seem to be reasonably established breeders and still do not have websites. I was totally stoked to check out Tony's website, or Pauls.............guess what, there isn't one.

No offense meant of course, I just thought for sure guys like that would have a site. A place to show off all your work and patience.

Just my thoughts, sorry to Tony and Paul for using your names in vain.

***edit***

The thing that really ticks me off are "professionals" who's websites have not been updated for 2 years!!

"New 2003 litter available!! e-mail for prices and shipping!!"

Umm okay what about 2004 and 05? I know these people are still around and breeding because they are still posting.

***end edit***

Shawn

Jeff_Favelle

01-21-05, 11:15 PM

Web sites are good. The only problem I have is, that Jeff hasn't been using his fancy papertowels in his pictures lately ......

You bastage!!! I was in the clear man! Everyone had almost forgot about those things!

A pox on you. LOL! ;)

Tim_Cranwill

01-22-05, 01:14 AM

Oooooohhhh no! I never forget. I was just waiting for the right time to bring it up again! :D Too bad someone beat me to it! LOL :D :p

Jeff_Favelle

01-22-05, 03:15 AM

Yeah, too bad. Mo-Fo. ;)

I got secrets about the Great Crannie as well peeps. And if it wasn't for Bad Karma, I'd be all over town at the local hotspots spilling my guts......(one more Kaluha cupcake and I'm gonna do that anyways Crannie, LOL!)....

Gotta go and NOT update my website, because all the photos I had planned were chalk-a-block full of STYLISH paper towel that the rubes here wouldn't appreciate.

LOL! ;)

BoidKeeper

01-22-05, 10:04 AM

Ok so here's what I've learned so far,
- Yes people think that anyone who wants to sell snakes should have a website.
- They make life easier for both seller and buyer once they are up and running.
- They have to be kept updated.
- Two of the most important sections are "About me." and "My collection."
- Tim has a great memory.
- Jeff is still very girly. "Kaluha cupcake” Come on man.lol
Cheers,
Trevor

Slannesh

01-22-05, 10:21 AM

Sounds about right Trevor....

But I would add that there is a big difference between a GOOD website and a crappy one. Like pretty much everything else in the business world it's about polish and packaging.

And I agree that Jeff is girly ;) Heck.. even my girlfriend drinks tequila Jeff and she's just a wee lil' thing!

BoidKeeper

01-22-05, 10:24 AM

and she's just a wee lil' thing!
So is Jeff.lol
Cheers,
Trevor

beanersmysav

01-22-05, 10:29 AM

Hey now I still like jello shots even though I'm convinced they don't do anything for ya but when I'm drinking I still don't mind eating about 30 of em they taste like they could kill ya but I just never see an increase

But yeah that sounds about right, I think a decent design is a must atleast one that's easy to navigate, there's too many sites out there where you have to click 2-3 or even 4 links to find some available reptiles

Jeff_Favelle

01-22-05, 04:59 PM

"Polishing the packaging" did he say? Haha I ain't touching that one.

Oh, and you're all dead. That's right.

I agree too, easy to navigate is a huge one, so is FAST LOADING. There are still some people in the dark ages and they have dial up (thank god not me), and if I'm over at a friend's and I want to look something up, I don't want it taking 30 minutes per page. Dreamweaver and all those programs can tell you how long each page will take to upload at what connection speed.

And those giant flash intros? Gay as a bananna. My friend made me one up and I'll be damned if I ever use it. There's a reason why every flash intro has a "skip intro" button. So why even bother putting the flash intro on? LOL!

:)

BoidKeeper

01-22-05, 06:01 PM

Oh, and you're all dead. That's right.
Well I'm glad to see you still have a sense of humour and that you are taking the jokes well. If you need me I'll be out of town for the next year or so.;)
Cheers,
Trevor

nita

01-22-05, 06:10 PM

I hve to agree with Jeff on the Flash intros, I always skip them!!

Well this year my one female big enough to breed is on loan to Jamie and hopefully I will have 50% poss het pieds next year but I'm keeping all of them most likely as we are splitting the clutch 50/50. Next year though I will hopefully have 5 - 9 females that will be breeding size and some of those offspring will be for sale, DH is building me a website as well, he does a nice job. I personally like to check out others websites and it does annoy me to no end when a site hasn't been updated in years, (One of my favorites still reads 2002, LOL, I check in every couple months to see if it has been fixed yet) I like to be able to check out a persons website to see what they are working with rather than having to email them and ask what it is they will be producing this year, if I check the site and they might have an animal i'm interested in come hatching time then I bookmark the site and keep checking back.

We will also be a 'WE'. I do all the snake care and choosing of the animals but the money is ours, he takes care of website, marketing and 3 of the snakes although I paid for them belong to my daughters and they do help with cleaning cages. It is a hobby and eventually a business in time but it will be a family thing here and therefore we is appropriate.

Tim_Cranwill

01-22-05, 06:24 PM

Some things I like and don't like to see are:

- The 3 click rule. You should be able to get to any page on the site within 3 clicks.

- Well named links. One site I love to visit is www.ralphdavisreptiles.com . There is TONS of great info on that site but it is more difficult to navigate than it should be and lots of the links have rather cryptic titles... IMO. I'm not knocking Ralphie though. He's the man!

- Flash intros... NOT. As stated above, they just aren't necessary and I ALWAYS skip them.

- Links to other pages and even photos should open in a new window.

- Drop down menus? Not a fan. They have their place but I'd rather see the options laid out in front of me.

- Sounds and pointer trailers... awful. Really, really poor taste and as corny as you can get! :D

- Text - Background color difference. Make sure the text is easy to read against the background.

- Pop ups... BOOOO!!!

Just my opinions. Oh well... gots to go be shovelin' now. :)