Community Tank?

[Tango-n-Toads]

Right now I have a 5g tank which houses 1 spiny-tailed house gecko. It's like a mansion for it.

I'm wondering since I have seen it at pet stores, is it possible to house any other small gecko/reptile in with it successfully? An anole maybe?

I also have yet to sex my gecko. I *think* it's a male but i'm not completely sure.

Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.

Here's a pic of my setup:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v189/gileslm/Tango%20and%20Yoshi/IM002542.jpg

[Double J]

Mixed species tanks ALWAYS end up in disaster. Something always ends up dead sooner or later as a result. Here is an excerpt from an article entitled "Species Mixing: New World Syndrome" that can be found at the following link:

http://www.livingunderworld.org/amphibianArticles/article0007.shtml

"The most common reason amphibians become ill in a mixed species environment is due to the introduction of foreign pathogens from species from different areas of the world. In the wild, species are exposed to numerous local pathogens, such as bacteria or virus strains, fungi, and other harmful agents, and through evolution have developed natural resistances/immunities to them. However, because these pathogens vary greatly from one location to another, the natural resistances developed by any particular species also varies greatly and is dependent on that species immediate wild habitat. Again, the case of European invasion and the effect of European pathogens on Native Americans can be referenced. For example, a newt from the United States, such as N. viridescens, will have developed resistances to different pathogens than a species from another environment, such as the Chinese Fire Belly newt, C. orientalis. A species will still carry the pathogens for which it has natural resistances to, so when one species is introduced to a foreign species, those pathogens and other harmful agents are inevitably being introduced to each species, which typically ends up in the illness or death of one or both due to their lack of natural resistances (i.e. New World Syndrome). Pet stores often house several salamander and newt, and sometimes frog, species in one tank, which gives pet buyers the idea that amphibians are community animals and coexist in a closed environment with other species. Unfortunately, these animals are often ill when purchased and die shortly after due to their mixed-species environment. It is true that some have mixed certain species with no ill effects for several years, but it is very risky doing so, and not the behavior of responsible keepers. "

Give the whole article a good read. It is worth it, and will save you some money and aggravation, and will save the lives of your reptiles and amphibians.


Below is another article loking at species mixing diasters. Though this next one is tailored to amphibians, it still applies to those wanting to mix lizards, or anything else for that matter.


http://www.caudata.org/cc/articles/Mixing_disasters.shtml

Now, workers at pet stores, though well meaning, are ALWAYS wrong when they give species mixing advice. Simply because pet store owners are able to keep animals alive for the few weeks they are in the pet store, does not mean that the mix can be dubbed "successful." Many keepers say that they have housed species X and species Y for years with "no problems".... though this is often a lie, luck, or a a case of passing off bad husbandry as something else. Again, give the frist articel a read, and it will explain this.

Trust me, mixing species in a small tank is like playing with a ticking time bomb.

Nobody has EVER given me any reason whatsoever, as to how the ANIMALS can benefit in a mixed speceis enviroment. That in itself is reason enough not to do it.

You say that your 5 gallon tank is like a mansion for your gecko.... trust me.. it is not! These animals occupy a much larger area in their lifetime in the wild, and populations are not so dense that they will always be within 12 inches of another species of lizard. The tank may surely be roomy for your single spiny tailed gecko..... but it is NOWHERE NEAR large enough to house another species. Even if your tank was 50 gallons... it is still far too small when compared to an ecosystem...... and is therefore too small to mix anything in. If you want to get another inhabitant for your tank, get another spiny tailed gecko!!! That is the ONLY thing that will not result in the death of one or more of your animals. Though if your gecko is a male, make sure you do not throw another male in there with him.

And trust me, your gecko is not lonely. If you had a primate in a cage, that would be a different story. Reptiles are not social animals, and suffer no psychological damage WHATSOEVER if housed alone. Let us also not forget that a 5 gallon tank is WAY| too small to house even a SINGLE anole! Anoles should be housed in a MINIMUM tank size of a 20 gallon tall tank. Anoles are the reptilian equivalent of a hummingbird. They need an incredible amount of space despite theri small size, and are very high-octane lizards.

The notion of "Community tanks" has always bothered me. The name itself implies nothing but fallacy. There is no such thing as a "reptile community." You do not have anoles working to buy food for thier families, house geckos building homes, fire belly toads worrying about child rearing, and newts taking care of the elderly. They do not attend church together, or have gatherings, or town meetings. They therefore cannot be a community. These animals are all competing for the same things... food, space, water, and places to hide. Many will not hesitate to eat each other in the process. They will not reason with each other, and they will not share anything without stress. Mixed tanks are nothing but an incredibly common example of bad husbandry based on anthropomorphism, or lack of knowledge. I am glad you asked the question of whether or not it was a viable option. You would not have gotten this response at a pet store.

Please consider my advice wisely. Throwing another species in that tank is like putting your animals on death row. Save yourself some frustration, and stick to one species. That is a good part of a recipe for success.

Good luck.

[Tango-n-Toads]

Thanks a lot! I appreciate that. I have had a lot of different pets in the past couple of years and I know it's really important to research before you go and do something... that it why I thought I would ask the more experienced people in here before I went ahead and made a mistake.

I would never want to do anything to jeopardize my little guy so I will do the right thing and stick with one species.

Snakehunter has seen a close-up pic of Tango and said that it looks like a male for sure. I know that having 2 males together can be bad, but will a female get along with it ok or will they just end up breeding?

If the end result proves that Tango is better of just being alone then that's what I'll stick with.

[Manitoban Herps]

Originally posted by Double J
Mixed species tanks ALWAYS end up in disaster.

I disagree, maybe it's good not to experiment these things but I have my Med. Gecko in with my Crocodile Gecko with no problems. A anole in with a house gecko would probally work out.

If your iffy about it don't do it.

[Double J]

Awesome!

I am relieved that you have made the right decision.

Best of luck with your geckos.

[Double J]

Originally posted by Manitoban Herps
I disagree, maybe it's good not to experiment these things but I have my Med. Gecko in with my Crocodile Gecko with no problems. A anole in with a house gecko would probally work out.

If your iffy about it don't do it.

No problems? How long has your tank been running? A month? Six months? Two years? Five years? One zoological institution housed new world eyelash vipers with poison dart frogs for NINE YEARS...... and in the ninth year, the eyelash vipers suddenly decided to EAT the poison dart frogs!!!!!! Though this tank ran smoothly for nine years, it still in the end was not successful. These animals are sympatric in the wild, and still could not "co-habitate" in the confines of a man-made enclosure. This is proof that mixing should be avoided by most keepers. Even zoos have problems with mixed tanks.

Now.. an anole and a house gecko...... I agree that someone may get lucky for a FEW MONTHS with this... but many of the house geckos in the pet trade are exported form Africa or Asia..... and of course the anoles are from the US. I think you should read the article in the link posted above about New World Syndrome. I will post an excerpt from this article once again. Give it read:

"The title of this article is a reminder of the dangers of introducing foreign pathogens to new species or races. When European's began to colonize the America's in the 15th century, they brought with them foreign pathogens, including small pox and the common cold, that Native Americans had never been exposed to. Because of their isolation from these pathogens, Native Americans did not have natural resistances to these illness, and the majority of those infected died horrible deaths. Smallpox and other illnesses were the primary cause of Native American declines from the 15th-18th century, and wiped out thousands of people. History has taught us a painful and devastating lesson about foreign disease, the immune system, and the devastating result of introducing foreign pathogens to unexposed victims. The end result is the same when different amphibian species are housed in the same captive environment. In fact, it's countless times worse because captive environments are so minute compared to wild habitats, which allows for a microbes to multiply at a phenomenal rate.

(snip)

The most common reason amphibians become ill in a mixed species environment is due to the introduction of foreign pathogens from species from different areas of the world. In the wild, species are exposed to numerous local pathogens, such as bacteria or virus strains, fungi, and other harmful agents, and through evolution have developed natural resistances/immunities to them. However, because these pathogens vary greatly from one location to another, the natural resistances developed by any particular species also varies greatly and is dependent on that species immediate wild habitat. Again, the case of European invasion and the effect of European pathogens on Native Americans can be referenced. For example, a newt from the United States, such as N. viridescens, will have developed resistances to different pathogens than a species from another environment, such as the Chinese Fire Belly newt, C. orientalis. A species will still carry the pathogens for which it has natural resistances to, so when one species is introduced to a foreign species, those pathogens and other harmful agents are inevitably being introduced to each species, which typically ends up in the illness or death of one or both due to their lack of natural resistances (i.e. New World Syndrome)......."

Again, here is the link:

http://www.livingunderworld.org/amphibianArticles/article0007.shtml

[Manitoban Herps]

2.5 Years, but about the vipers and frogs, if you house 2 vipers together for 9 years and they eat eachother, is that proof you shouldn't house the same species together?

[Bartman]

Its also suggested not to house the same species together, especially for snakes unless breeding. They are solitary and dont need someone with them to be "happy"

[Double J]

Originally posted by Manitoban Herps
2.5 Years, but about the vipers and frogs, if you house 2 vipers together for 9 years and they eat eachother, is that proof you shouldn't house the same species together?

This of course is on a species by species basis. Dart frogs, you can house them in pairs or groups ideally. Geckos.... harems or pairs.
But the vipers, and many other snakes?

I think you have answered your own question.