Rescued Brazilian Rainbow Q's

[dtocher]

I am a college student who keeps reptiles. I have a ball, an albino kingsnake, B&W tegu. My friends all know this. I see a friend while eating lunch out one day and he says that a mutual friend of ours found a snake under his house. He describes it, and I say it must be a Brazilian Rainbow Boa.

I went over to see it, and I was right. We've had heavy rains in my part of Southern California, and his house got partially flooded. He went under the house to the basement to see if his stuff there got damaged, and found the snake curled up, near death. He had it in a plastic fish aquarium with no heat and two fuzzy mice (one dead from the cold, one near dead). I was the first person not afraid to pick it up. He said it tried to strike two other people, but missed. He said I should take it and I agreed. I took it home and set it up in a k-mart 60+ quarter tupperware type thing.

This was about a week ago. The first 24 hour it had a real heavy wheez. I thought respiratory infection. After I heated him up, though. The wheez went away. He also had a few cuts. I think he was someone's pet that escaped, and just didn't know what to do when winter came. He had one small cut over his left eye. Now here's the wierd thing:

I tried to feed it an adult mouse. It struck, but missed and hit the cardboard box I had it in pretty hard with its nose. Did that twice, then reared back in pain (like hitting the box hard hurt it). Then after an hour or so I gave up and took it out of the box. It got confused and tried to strike my face (but didn't open its mouth to bite, so it just headbutted me). I tried again with a rat pup a few days later.

The snake is about 4 feet long, so pretty old by my understanding. I'm wondering if this could be partial blindness, trouble adapting to being in captivity again, or (I fear) inclusion body disease. Should I force feed? If this is IBD, should I euthanize? Exotic vets in my area cost 50 bucks just to walk through the door. I can't afford to lose that to find out that a snake is going to die no matter what. Any thoughts would be much appreciated. Thank you.

[ravensgait]

I'd guess by it's size that it's between one and two years old or so. You don't mention it's condition ? BRBs are slender snakes but does it look under weight?

How are you keeping it ie temps on the warm and cool side of the tank? humidity? I keep my BRBs 83 to 85 on the warm side and about 10 degrees cooler on the other side, They don't like it to hot. The humidity should be higher then for other boas. they also like to have a water dish big enough to get into.

I wouldn't be to concerned about IBD if thats all that it's doing. could be that it's just real hungry, I've seen young ones miss like that . What i'd try is a rat fuzzy and place them both in a smaller container for a few hours. With young ones that we have trouble feeding we use a paper bag, if you use a bag staple it closed or the snake will come right out. just leave them alone and see what happens you might have to leave them all night. You don't have to worry about leaving them together with a young rodent that is still nursing. If the snakes is thin and does eat give it a day or two and offer it another one you don't want to over feed it.

Now if you are real concerned about the BRBs health put it on it's back and if it flips over quickly that's good if not then there might be something going on..

Also since it is rather dry in Ca(at least most the time) you might want to look at it's eyes to see if it had a bad shed and retained extra eye caps. That could also be the reason it misses it can't see well. If you want to email me for more help ravensgait@yahoo.com , Randy

[dtocher]

I tried the flipping thing. As far as motor skills, it seems to be doing real well (except for feeding). It flips over on its own, so I count that against IBD.

I'm at work, I'll check the eye caps when I get home.

It is about as thick as the doweling used in closet for hanging clothes on. Over a inch (more like 1.5-2). It seems pretty full bodied (for a BRB); you can't see any ribs through it.

I know that BRB like humitidy, so I've been keeping the temp higher than I otherwise would have. I'll take it down a notch when I get home. I've probably beem overcompensating, but that doesn't fully explain the reason it struck poorly when I first got/found it.

My snakes have never had cuts or burns, so I can't really identify what's going on with this guy. He has one mark over his left eye, and one along its spine about 6 inches from its head. They look and feel sort of like cracked fiberglass.

Thank you!

[BoidKeeper]

I keep two BRBs and if I had found this snake this is what I would have done with it.
1. I would have placed a warm damp bath towel inside a rubbermaid and then wraped the snake in that and left it over night. Leave it in a warm place. That would have helped to hydrate the snake and remove any minor retained skin from past incomplete sheds. The next morning I would check for any skin that would have to taken off by hand.
2. I would place it in a sweater box size rubbermaid cage. Line the bottom with newspaper and then crumpled up news paper on top of that level with the sides of the container. In the coner oposite the heat I would place a water bowel. Use a heat pad under one side to get a hot spot of 88-90. Make sure you keep the newspaper damp, not wet, by misting every morning. Also I would make sure that the cage is kept in a room that never got cooler than 70 degrees.
3. I would leave it this way for at least 1 week, maybe two. The snake needs to be hydrated and kept at the right temps for at least a week before feeding it. You also need to use this time to chech for a respiroty problem. RI's can occure as a result of being kept at temps that are too cool for too long. Lack of humidity and stress.
4.Then if every thing else checks out I would try to feed it. Force feeding will only make things worse right now.
Good luck and keep us posted,
Trevor

[HeatherRose]

Man, ANYTHING you do for this snake will be 10x better than the life it had before you took it in. Everything Trevor and ravensgait have said so far is bang on, just give him a nice humid rubbermaid with a toasty hot spot and get him hydrated. Getting it to eat is not a huge deal right now, but fixing it's RI and getting it hydrated are. Once it starts to get better, try again...from the feeding response (albeit misses) that you got earlier, he looks hungry :P

If that cut looks open in anyway (although not from the way you describe it) you may want to put some polysporin on it.

And if it's 4 feet long, it might not quite be full grown, unless it is a male (maybe).

Good luck, keep us posted!!!

[dtocher]

I get off work today at 3, so I'll call around pet stores to see who has young rats and try the "you're not going anywhere" feeding technique.

I live in a drunken college town... you guys wouldn't believe the number of snakes that get loose here. Since college kids think they are cool, they get them... then someone gets drunk and leaves the tank open. Since I've been here (2.5 years), this is the third time someone's called me saying there was a snake in/around their house and asking me to come deal with it. The first was a baby BCI, and I set it up in a good home with a friend of mine. The second was an oldish-juvy BCI, and we found the owner (random house guests' knocked over the 80 gal terrarium, broke it, didn't tell anyone) The owner put up fliers, so we returned it based off that.

I really think this BRB has been loose for some time now. Only about 3 weeks ago did winter hit my part of SoCal, so it would have been fine heat-wise until then. It was like a popcicle when I first got it.

Side-story, just cuz it fits here. The guy who initially found it bought two live fuzzy mice for it (I know, tiny). The BRB couldn't connect with it, so I offer one to my youngish ball python. First time he's been fed live mice (something I was planning on switching to anyway)... well, he struck, constricted, seemingly killed, and started eating. Got about 2/3 done and the mouse popped back to life. That was spooky! Not ust twitching, life. I tried to get it out, but my ball would have none of that. The mouse eventually died from lack of oxygen (or maybe fear!).

[dtocher]

Quick question on keeping this beautiful (and seemingly happier) creature...

How much height should the rubbermaid be? I used what I had available. Second, I know it's bad, but it's also temporary... I've been using an extra heating rock up until now. I've kept it above the warm side of the cage. On Tuesday I'm going to get the rat pup and a heating pad. This is my question: the pad, it's safe to put on the bottom of plastic bin/cage?

Any other general tips would be great. I've been thrown into the world of high humidity serpents, and i love it. :)

[dtocher]

Updated devolpement. I took him out to show someone. Maybe 5 minutes tops. He started drooling... then drooling a lot. Then a little mucas and a yawn. Looks like he threw up on an empty stomach (something I'm all too familiar with, sadly). Any ideas?

[ravensgait]

Sounds like the little guys is sick, what you describe could be an RI I think you should get your BRB to a vet and have them take a look. Randy

[jglass38]

From my experience with my still recovering BRB rescue, 3 things:

Humidity - Keep it as high as possible!
Temps - They like them lower. Nothing over 88 and preferably much lower. I keep mine at around 82-84 on the warm side and 76-80 ambient.
Feeding - Keep the meals small. BRBs cant handle the meal size of a BCI. The meal should be no bigger around then its thickest part. Keep it to a single prey item once per week or two.

Cypress mulch is a great substrate for high humidity and it doesnt mold. They like the dark. Keep it dark for them. A dark colored cage (mine is in a black AP) or a rubbermaid with most of it covered with a towel (leaving room for air). Good luck and you have done a great thing!

Jamie

[dtocher]

Alright, good news! The little *******, who we've been calling Satan (after Miroslav Satan, the hockey player... and the religious figure) ate today.

The rat pinkies/pups were wayyy too small. I put the snake and two adult mice in a paper bag. Poke a few holes, stapled the top, and put it on its side. I waited one hour, opened the top, and one mouse was there. Just one. Sorta like rodent Thunderdome: Two mice enter, one mouse leaves!

Here's my next question... I have an acrylic tank (TruVu brand). It's a fish tank, but it pretty shallow and definately has enough surface area for this guy. I'm keep the top air tight (which is easy), but want to drill holes in the sides for airflow. This a good idea? Anyone ever done this? Tips, tricks? After tomorrow, I'll ask this in the enclosure thread.

[BoidKeeper]

Life would be so much easier if you just put him in a sweater box size rubbermaid with lots of damp newspaper for him to crawl through. Again feeding is not the priority right now. Making sure that he doesn't have an RI is. Set up the right cage for him and leave him alone except for checking his breathing and changing his drinking water. And you can keep a brazilian at higher temps if it's an adult, especially if you suspect it might be sick.
Cheers,
Trevor

[ravensgait]

Well you go with what you have, the tank will work just make some holes in what ever you used to cover it with, More holes on the cool side than on the warm. Make sure he has a hide on each end, I use dog bowls the plastic kind that (how to explain this) are like one round sheet with the center pushed in or like a dome with the center pushed in to hold water lol I cut holes in the skirt of it and use it on the cool side , so it's a water dish with a hide under it. Works really well and cuts down on the number of objects you have in the tank. Keep the tank in a low traffic area and give him some time to adjust and recover. I'd start out with the temps at 85 on the warm side and around 75 on the cool and see where he spends most of his time, if he stays on the warm spot a lot then up the temp a couple degrees and see what he does. Keep us posted on how he's doing, good luck....Randy

[BoidKeeper]

Well you go with what you have,
Even if it's not the best choice?
I'd start out with the temps at 85 on the warm side and around 75 on the cool and see where he spends most of his time, if he stays on the warm spot a lot then up the temp a couple degrees and see what he does.
This would be ok if he wasn't potentially trying to fight off an RI from being both too cool and too dry. This is not a neonate that will die if kept at 90 it's a 4' small adult. 85 won't do a thing for it if it has an RI.
Trevor

[dtocher]

I haven't put him in the acrylic yet. That's the end game idea... meaning when he gets healthy.

For right now, and since the day after I got him, he's been in a huge rubbermade (well, K-Mart brand equivalent) and kept at 89-90 degrees from a heat pad (it was a heat rock for a few days, because that was the only option at the time). The humidity is high enough that I can't see through the clear parts, but there's enough airflow. I am doing everything I can for this beautiful serpent.

[BoidKeeper]

Sounds good to me. How is his breathing?
Cheers,
Trevor

[dtocher]

Very good (compared to how it was when I first got it). No wheezing anymore (when I first got it, every breath sounded like a mix between a police siren and a stray cat). Rather regular.

[BoidKeeper]

After talking with a long time Brazilian breeder tonight I realized that RI in Brazilians are rare to say the least. Chances are the respiratory noises you were hearing were caused from being too dry not too cold.
Here are my pair,
http://www.ssnakess.com/photopost/data/508/28916_11_04_1-med.jpg
http://www.ssnakess.com/photopost/data/508/2890_1_BRB_12_07_04_2-med.jpg
http://www.ssnakess.com/photopost/data/500/2891_0_BRB_Dec_7_03-med.jpg
http://www.ssnakess.com/photopost/data/508/2890_1_BRB_Dec_7_03-med.jpg
Keep up the good work,
Trevor

[ravensgait]

I don't know about rare, they can sure get RI. I don't think being to dry was the problem if I remember correctly it was really wet out there, cold yep but not very dry.

There is nothing wrong with keeping it in a tank, you sure can see them better and don't have to move them around or disturb them opening up a rubermaid to check on them. As far as temps go I've found it best to let them decide what temps they prefer. I keep a couple of 20 longs for when and if I have a sick snake it's oh so much easier to see how they are doing with out having to bother them all the time.

I also keep most of my animals behind glass or plexi so I can enjoy seeing them . I use RMs for newbies and for cooling down and feeding. Well with less then 20 Rbs and a few strays its not to hard to keep them behind something see through. I have a BRB and my female CGRB that are social butterflies they come out to see what I'm doing when ever I'm in the room.

Keep them in whatever you prefer as long as it's set up right. Randy

[dtocher]

UPDATE:

So I got the new tank to heat/humidity statis and moved the guy there. The conditions were better than the Rubbermaid knock off I had, and offer the guy a lot more space. RIght now it's 80% humidity and 89.5 degrees F (I chose to bump the heat up, cuz it still makes the odd squeeking noise).

I am still planning on taking him to the vet. Between school, work, and not having a car, it can be pretty difficult getting to the vet. I had to cancel an appointment last week. I've worked out a ride there on Friday, and (get this) I plan on taking the bus back home. That should be interesting.

Thanks again for all your help, guys.

[HeatherRose]

Snakes on the bus are no fun :p I had to do that once...twice...okay, lots of times.

Sounds like she's going to improve for you, good luck! You've done a really good job so far.

Nice BRB's Trevor!

[dtocher]

I checked on him right after posting. Satan's starting to shed. Grey eyes and loose skin on his body. Think this is anything but good news? Until I hear otherwise, I'm interpretting it as good. I'll really watch for eyecaps when he's done, though.

[ravensgait]

One of my little ones just finished sheding today. I'd take it as a good sign, Just keep the humidity up.
Randy

[dtocher]

He passed the first mouse I got him to eat. Pretty healthy looking feces (although slightly more white than I've seen in the past).

[Boakid]

ok i just read this and i know its old now, but how is the little guy doing now?

[dtocher]

Wow, yeah it has been a while.
The snake, affectionately known as SATAN, is doing extremely well. He's eating f/t large rats every 10 days or so. For the first few months I got him eating, I would feed him every 5-7 days, because he had a lot of weight he needed to gain back.

He first shed a few days after I finally got him to eat something. his skin looked a lot better after that. A few weeks went by, and he shed again. He has probably shed 5 times now since I've had him, and I'm sure it's because the condition of his skin was so terrible.

I take him out places with me now, and he doesn't much cause trouble. At times jumpy, but usually really well mannered.

As a side note, it turns out I know the guy who lost him. He lost the snake and graduated shortly after, so he had to move. He came back to visit a few weeks ago and I showed him how well the snake was. We did the math and it was something like 8 months between when the snake was lost and when it was found. He has no problem with me keeping Satan now, so that also makes me happy.

Just generally doing VERY well. Thanks for the concerns.

[Jeff_Favelle]

Good stuff! Keep us updated. Sounds like things have turned around. Snakes are bloody resilient!

[jglass38]

Nice job!! I wish my rescue would have turned around quicker. Despite perfect husbandry, he is still not gaining quite enough weight. He has been to the vet a couple times and has been treated with Flagyl and antibiotics. He has since become much stronger and is eating agressively, but just not gaining weight as fast as I would have expected. He still has the triangular shape (backbone sticks out all along his body).