Racks & Enclosures!!!

[Shane Tesser]

Just curious...im in the process of making some of these for the up coming Toronto Reptile Expo...Would like input from you in the know as to what you would look for...ie racks...how many compartments...what materials? Enclosures..same thing...sizes etc, features?

I currently have two large enclosures ready for the show...These are white melamine...4'x2'x12"....they feature solid oak trim...solid oak doors...brass hinges, brass door opener..and brass lock set...with full sized plexi window......i wont put prices here as i am looking to sell them at the show...for a discount and this is not the place to do a for sale add.....so anyones advice would be great.....i will also entertain building stuff for ppl ahead of the show if you are looking for something...Thanks, Shane :)

[Zhakrin]

Those sound like great pieces, but they sound expensive.

Personally I would like to see some very plain functional racks for rubbermaid containers with heating tape installed. Simple racks for Ball pythons, corns, and hatchlings could be produced very quickly by someone experienced, once a system is in place.

Here is what I was thinking:

Hatchling rack: 2 columns of 10 shelves.

Corn rack: 2 or 3 columns of 5 or 6 shelves

BP rack (Adult) : 1 column of 4 or 5 shelves

The above are just guess but you get the idea. A lot of people are looking for rack systems for their herps but the $2-$300+ price tags are the killer.

Just my 2 cents

[Greg West]

What size would the rubbermaids need to be? I am thinking of trying to do some racks and some easy cheap melamine cages for the people who are looking for more functionality as opposed to display cages. I know nothing about rubbermaid sizes so Iwouldn't know what size to build.

[Christina]

Shane
We find that plexi glass does scratch up easy and is harder to clean than glass.
If you go to your local Speedy auto glass or somewhere to that effect they cut the glass for cheap and to the exact size you want.
The enclosures do sound great!
If you want to make some affordable go with other some of the cheaper styled knobs etc, you can get some awesome looking door handles at Home Depo of lizards for a lower cost than brass knobs. Instead of using solid oak also look into some of the softer woods like cedar and pine that are more affordable but look great as well.
Also make some that are just frames like Zhar mentioned that are a little more functional for smaller species untill somebody could afford something a little more luxurious!
From me Christina :)

[Joe]

A nice piece of Birch will stain almost the same as Oak, and is alot cheaper

[Edwin]

I just picked up my terrarium yesterday. The person I bought it from was very helpful and accomodating in customizing it to my exact specifications.

For racks, I like something plain and simple. If gave you a rubbermaid container, and told you that I would need rack to fit 8 of those containers, you should be able to do that. Also, it would be helpful if your racks came prewired with heat tape etc.

For enclosures, I am more fussy about its looks, as it will be in my living/dining room. I personally like maple and oak, but any type of wood (except cedar) is OK too.

Pricing for racks should be fairly cheap, in the $150-200 range, like Zhakrin mentioned, unless the customer wants them for display purposes. Enclosures would be highly dependent on the type of materials you use, size, features etc. I would like to see plain vanilla melamine 6x2x2 cages for about $200-300, and those using oak or maple for around $600+.

Hope this helps. Do you have any pictures of your completed cages?

[Greg West]

Who did you get your cage from Edwin? It looks pretty nice.

Greg

[Shane Tesser]

Hehehe, yeah the oak trimmed cages are meant for someone who wants a nice display enclosure....and hopefully i can sell them for the price of a regular enclosure..that is my goal with those....but i am also building ones that are of the plain jane variety.....my goal is to keep them affordable....hopefully when i price them..ppl will find even the fancy ones cheap!

[Edwin]

Thanks, Greg. I got my cage from John at JD Terrariums. He will be at the next Toronto Reptile Expo. He is a very nice guy, and I fully recommend him if you are looking for a terrarium. He was very willing to work from my horrible doodles, and his pricing is aggressive. Like you, he does all kinds of shapes and designs, I saw him making a bird cage and he sent me a picture of a round cage he recently made for a client. It looks interesting.

Shane, all the best with your enclosures, I feel that while price plays a big part in the equation, the quality of your product and how well it fits the needs of your customers are just as important . See you at the Reptile Expo!

[Pixie]

I too personally agree that nice display is a big part of the equation. I have 5 snakes right now and am planning to get lots more :) But I want them to be all set up in nice display cages so I can enjoy looking at them in my big living room. To me they are the best decoration I can have and I very much enjoy coming home and seeing all my creatures right there in a esthetic setting. Cost can be a bit hard to deal with but it's a fact of life and a reality to deal with wanting this kind of stuff, so I'm saving up to have what I really want!

[tai_pan1]

Hey pixie, you left out your tarantula!

[Grant vg]

@ edwin.... $200-$300??? for 6 x 2 x2 melamine... Damn im trying to sell mine for 150/175 with no luck, just a bunch of bogus offers...

As for the racks, Shane isn't really in the position to be selling them with heat tape, seeing that it is not approved here in canada and he would be liable if anything went wrong.
However, it is easily attainable from the US, and even easier to put together and use. The hard part is getting your rack reutered (sp??) for the proper functionality of the tape, i think if anything Shane, u should look into that as the main selling aspect of a rack.
It would be great to see more reutered racks for sale in canada.

Grant

[Lisa]

To be honest we have only considered custom enclosures for our big snakes... something like a 6X4X2 enclosure.

[Pixie]

tai_pan, I didn't forget about my tarantula, she's the first thing I see when I open the door (great to freak out visitors :)!!!) but she's all set up nice in her 10gal, no need to have an enclosure specialy made for her.

[Edwin]

Grant, maybe you need to show them those pics with you showing them off ala Vanna White. I remember you posting those pics on the 'other' website when you first built them. Don't worry, I am sure that someone will take them off your hands soon.

The cheapest 6x2x2 that I found was for $80-100, but it was basically a melamine crate with chicken wire air vents. Most of the people I spoke to were willing to sell in the $200-300 range for a standard melamine (front access, 2 air vents, sliding glass) cage. The prices shot up drastically once I asked for an installed hide box, wood trim etc. JD terrariums offered the best value for my money, which is why I went with him.

I forgot about the liability issues associated with heat tape in Canada, but Shane, if you could find some way around it, or alternative equally efficient methods of heating racks, this would be huge. I think I speak for most people when I say that I am afraid to fool around with anything electrical which may burn my home down.

Grant, if you throw in a blood with your enclosures, I may be interested *wink wink*

[Grant vg]

Ha!

I cant believe u remember those vanna white pictures...lol
Now, im all embarrassed...:eek:

If i cant move four 6' x 2' x 2' melamine enclosures (with sliding glass, 4 aluminum circular vents, in good shape...etc..etc...) for 150, then i really dont think there is a strong demand for cage building, although there is to an extent, i think guys like greg west and john have pretty much got the market covered....

Sweet set ups are nice, and I would love to buy a few, but i think u (shane) should concentrate on building rubbermaid racks of all sizes. They are extremely easy to make, but a lot of ppl just dont want to spend the extra time to build it themselves.

I know i dont want to ever make my enclosures again...and
Id rather spend the extra few on a fellow herper.

Also, free dilivery would be great! :P

And, no edwin, how many times do i have to tell you, the bloods dont come with the wood! lol

[Shane Tesser]

Wow...you guys are great....way more info than i was actually expecting....i really appreciate that! Yeah i think i will take your advice grant and do up a whole bunch of racks of various sizes...The enclosures are more of a specialty thing im finding...but for me they are just fun to build. Routing out vents is no problem i have a router and actually completely forgot about doing it..so thanks for that! Im not really looking to go into business doing this..im just finding it a relaxing hobby right now...and just happened to be blessed with a full sized table saw, mitre saws sanders..routers...etc etc in a stocked garage..so i thought...what the heck..ill give it a try :)

[Greg West]

Just a question to pass off on some of you. What if you were to sell a rack with a routered spot for the heat tape, and had it wired so that all they had to do was install the heat tape and plug it in? If you still supplied the heat tape, who would be liable? You because you sold it to them even though it was them who installed them, or them because they installed it?

Also, I am assumining that you are talking about routering the panels underneath so that there is air flow over the heat tape so that it doesn't overheat. Does if give off that much heat, that it heats them well even when its not in contact with the surface that you want to heat? Hopefully you can understand what im asking.

Greg

[Zhakrin]

Personally Shane,

In a couple year (ya I know) I will hopefully be in a postion to start seriously breeding GTP, Balls some boas etc. What I will need is not so much Beautiful Oak display units, but stackable convenient systems.

SPACESAVERS are needed!

Also alot of herpers have apts and large units are not practical so again something that helps them maximizes their available space to herp ratio would be in big demand.

a problem i have found is that top entry tanks are major space hogs, but the front opening tanks are a lot more $$$ and harder to find.

I hope your still availible when I buy my house in a couple yrs, I wouldnt mind hiring you to outfit my whole "facility". if you would do that kind of work.

cya

[Greg West]

Grant ....

Sorry to hear you are having problems selling your cages. My theory is unless you find someone who had the same requiremenst and maybe the same snakes you used the cage for, then the only interest you are going to get is --- i'll give you $50.00 if you deliver it --- Pre assembled and USED cages are definitely hard to sell. I usually only build to order, except I build 1 or 2 for the reptile show. Even then I sometimes dont sell any. It is not a way to make a killing in the reptile world in my opinion. I just do it as a hobby. If someone wants one and is willing to pay for it then thats great, but I would never survive on that money alone.

Also there are quite a few other people in Canada who build reptile cages, and probably sold quite a few. Beth makes cages in BC, myself in Alberta, JD Terrariums, Ed Valan out of Toronto, Canadian Kaging (Are they still around) and probably many others. There is a market there for cages, but not all people are willing to pay for the labour that is associated with the cost.

Well, just my little rant......

Greg

[beth wallbank]

Hi there
Greg pretty much has it covered with the buyer market with the reptile enclosures. It doesn't cost a whole lot to make the enclosures, but the time, labour and space to store them is the killer. This is why the cages seem to be a bit $$$ when people are quoted a price for a unit.
This is a unit I just made that holds 5 drawers of 7gallon and 5 drawers of 3gallon rubbermaids, with heattape ontop as well for other enclosures needed. This paticular unit was relatively cheap to make, approx. $50 for the materials, (without the heat tape) but the labour would run a buyer twice that. This is where the demand drops out.
In all honesty, there is no business for enclosure making, unless you find a way to mass produce them for little $$ and little labour.
Personally, if you wanted to make enclosures or racks to bring to shows, build smaller sized units, with enough room for 4-8 rubbermaids max. That way they are easily moved and apartment friendly. And DO NOT sell units with heat tape. You are liable even if the buyer supplies it.
Hope this helps

[Grant vg]

Greg,

Dont supply any heat tape with your enclosures...
As beth said, even if u just supply it, and they install it, u can still be liable.

However, that doesn't mean u cant make your enclosures heat tape compatible...:)

As for the extent of heat the tape can give off... i have always used it squished between wood with no recess.
Others leave a recess, just to be safe.

From what ive heard, heat tape can heat fine from underneath with a small recess. BUT that means, its got to work alot harder
(meaning more power$$$$$) to heat to the desired temp.

I use hardly any power to heat my enclosures, so is there still that more of a risk not using a recess????

[Lisa]

Personally i like glass enclosures. They look really good. They're also easy to heat with an UTH. Unfortunetly they're costly and heavy, though you don't need to use the heavy glass used in aquariums. Maybe you can do low cost front opening glass enclosures.

[Greg West]

I would like to think my glass enclosures are low cost. $250.00 for a 120 Gallon front opening cage.

Greg