16' x 6' x 3'

[beanersmysav]

Hey, I've been contemplating breeding Beaner for a long time now, and was talking to a member on this forum who's Savannah female I might purchase. I was just wondering what the minimum reccomended would be for a breeding pair. I was thinking 16' long 6' wide and 3' tall. Would this be the minimum? I can't find too much good info on breeder Savs but I'd like to give them their space and not have the right on top of eachother, and both of them are used to have 8 or 9' to themselves anyways so I figured this would be a safe bet.

I'd honestly like to go smaller if I could because this would take up the entire wall I'd have it on really limiting room for the offspring, and I'd hate to put the off spring in the living because of the trafficing level. All things I must think about but I'd like this question out of the way first.

[Bartman]

Thats great! I was thinking to breed sav's in a couple years. I think that cage size would be WAY more then enough, and would be incredible if you could do it. Id personally make it a foot taller if you could so you could have a nice foot of dirt for the female to burrow and lay eggs and such, which would also make it more natural. That would be the ultimate enclosure! :D

[V.hb]

thats bloody HUGE!

i keep a pair of albigs in a 10x6x6, they're just fine in it and they're twice the size of my savannahs.

[beanersmysav]

Well I was just figuring they are both use to half that a piece so it would only be right to double it, maybe I'll take 2 ft off the length and a 2 feet to the height I was totally forgetting about dirt when I came up with the idea I'd like way more than a foot of dirt honestly. I'll have to get my brain stewing on the thing and more important how it can be taken down if I need to move.

However this would not be the ultimate enclosure the ultimate enclosure it on www.cagesbydesign.com look under their reptile cages I believe it's the first one. THAT would be the ultimate cage. I'm thinking of purchasing it in a year or two for some kind of large aboreal reptile but that's in the plans for the far future... Possibly a trio of green tree monitors I love those things.

[VI Reptiles]

16x6x3 is toooooooo much, savs get maybe 4 ft at most but im not to sure...... Just think of how long it would take you to build it, plan it, put all the substrate in, clean it when theres to much crap. When you look at it in the end ur wasting too much space. Yes it would be amazing to have such an awesome enclosure but as I said before.


Thanks

[Steve]

I say go for it. When I move I will be making a room sized enclosure for my trio of tegus. Monitors are large lizards that like to move and most like to dig. Giving them a large cage like this lets them do exactly what they want.

[SHvar]

If you go the time and expense of building a 16ft by 6ft wide enclosure thats only 3ft high where is the substrate going to be? Build a big cage but make use of the height also, 2ft of dirt, and some height to climb, 5-6ft maybe? For my single female albig I use 10ft long by 5ft high by 4ft wide inside dimensions, yet she could have used taller, I just dont have much more space after putting it up on blocks.

[dean_h00]

thee is no need for a giant cage to breed savs they actually prefer to copulate in smaller areas
not to mention how extremely difficult it is to succesfully get savs to produce
many have tried many have failed abut 2 people in Canada have succesfully bred savs more than once the first time is ussually luick when you successfully breed them more than once or twice you know your husbandry is damn good and you should probably write a book
lol

[SHvar]

2ft of dirt leaves you 1ft of height to mount lights, climbing space etc, hmmm, not a very useful cage, add a few feet. I say this because as I said I built one 5ft tall, it lost 2 ft to dirt on one end, so theres 3 ft for the monitor above ground on that end, she can stand up and reach the top. Im sorry but Ive kept boscs, they enjoy being out in the open and climbing a bit to, and all of them averaged 2.5-4.5ft ing length, 1 ft of height is not enough to live in, especially to feel comfortable and try to get them to breed. Im not saying it cant happen in that height, but you stand much more of a chance of them breeding if they have their needs met and enjoy living in the cage, so why not give them more options, there is no exact formula to breeding them and what every one of them enjoys is different but some space to climb, move, and look around is always a good option.

[chuck911jeep]

too big too big....this is never too big if you can give him good Tem. and humidity

[Tamizan]

i agree with shavar.....Make it 4-5' high

[beanersmysav]

Not to get on anyone but if you read my reply to this post I said I'd make it a few feet shorter and add to the height. Like I said it was a spur of the moment guess as to the size of the cage forgetting about the dirt.

Also to those who say too big, I'm sorry but it is not too big, the reason there are so many obese Savs out there is because of lack of room. Now if I were to manage to get the proper humidity. (Heat will be no issue) I think this cage would be less than perfect. What Sav do you know in the wild that only has 14-16' to walk around? None unless they are trapped in an enclosure somewhere. There is honestly no such thing as too big as long as the temp. and humidity are at the proper levels.

However after rethinking it I'm think 10x4x6 will be a bit better. It just bothers me that both Savs are use to that amount of size by themselves, and sharing it might urk them. If they breed then great, if they don't that's fine too I'll have two nice Savs in a nice, properly sized enclosure which is great too.

[Bartman]

There is honestly no such thing as too big as long as the temp. and humidity are at the proper levels.


I totally agree, the bigger the better with no limits as long as you can keep all the husbandry as you need it. Good luck with that tank and keep us updated!

[jungleshadows]

Obviously the more room the better. However if you have no experience with large cages it can backfire. Getting the proper temps etc. in a smaller cage is not to hard. Doing so in a large tall cage gets harder.

It is best to start off with a smaller more easily controlable cage learn what works first, then try for the big one. I have used 20 x14 x12 cages and it is not as easy to set them up as it is a smaller cage. Keep it managable, useful for your monitor, without restricting it. Thats about the best advice I can give you. In other words do not cramp them but make sure you can still manage it.

The size of the cage doesn't matter to much for breeding if they are supplied with what they need. My young pair of niles grew up in a 2 x 4 x 2 trough, they also copulated and the female nested in that same cage. It's more about usability of the cage then it is the size of it.

[beanersmysav]

Well I'm currently working and learning on a decently large cage my Savannah is in an 8 x 3 x 3 I bought this one and at first I admit it was hard to get everything right but now I'm ready to move on to bigger.

[Tamizan]

good luck :D

[V.hb]

Has anyone who's said the bigger the better actually tried to do that?

Sometimes monitors completely freak out when given alot of room. They feel insecure and highly intimidated. You would need so much cover for the animal in order for it to feel less intimidated. I personally wouldn't give a pair of savannahs anymore than an 8x4x4 enclosure.

[chuck911jeep]

Sometimes monitors completely freak out when given alot of room. They feel insecure and highly intimidated. You would need so much cover for the animal in order for it to feel less intimidated.
What's you describe have a name...it's call freedom, they feel free. The same way as some "freak out" when you take them outside to the sun...What you recommend for this? Sun hurt them. Don't let your monitor see the sun?

[Tamizan]

I think i would get some plywood, and then slowly make it bigger.... then they wouldn't freak out?

[Steve]

Getting a larger cage will NOT make it freak out. I only see pros(except for the original setup which will be harder)...you savs will be more active. I have my tegu a addition to his cage and he simply LOVED it. As for finding food, montiors will always find it without any prob. I see no cons really to getting a larger cage, could even make it easier for breeding since you don't need a seperate nest box(if you can't supply enough substrate to burrow in, in the cage).
Just make sure about the heating and humidity. With a cage that size you could even install a misting system on a timer. You could have anywhere from 1-20 nozzles which are set for certain times. With this setup humidity would not be a problem.


ps...i just found a con....its harder to find their poop in a cage that size

[V.hb]

er, what I said is obvious... Too much room with an improper setup will cause stress. a 16 foot enclosure will be incredibly difficult to setup properly.

And umm, yes I do take my monitors outside, and they don't freak out.....

[beanersmysav]

I acctually didn't plan on having any glass, maybe that will make them "freak out" less? The feces shouldn't be an issue he has never gone anywhere but his water dish, and he does that on a daily basis. I have plenty of substrate for the enclosure I use dirt and I have perfect dirt for them in my backyard which I have 2 acres worth so the dirt wont be a problem. I understand this may be a hard set up to maintain but trust me I wouldn't do it if I wasn't planning on proper up keep. I feel somewhat offended by the comment "too much room with improper setup" but hey believe what you want I guess.

For the rest of you I appreciate your input and backing on this subject. I was thinking about the misting system myself.

I'm going to try and find some people who have bred Savannah Monitors on all types of scales large and small, to talk to about this enclosure and get alot of ideas together before jumping into it. I'm not going to waste an enclosure this big by doing it wrong.

[Steve]

heres is the site for a mister company...i have never used them before, but have heard many good things about them
http://www.agselect.com/

[chuck911jeep]

obvious, obvious, obvious....it's like bla bla bla.
chuck911jeep
too big too big....this is never too big if you can give him good Tem. and humidity

v.hv
Too much room with an improper setup will cause stress. a 16 foot enclosure will be incredibly difficult to setup properly.
little cage with improper setup will cause the same stress, but anyway...thank's for your good advice. I will go with smaller cage ...just kidding

[V.hb]

..For Beaner , What I meant was, its much easier to setup a smaller enclosure. Like Jungle Shadows said, it's what they can use that's important.. a 16 foot enclosure would be very difficult to setup, i mean even filling a 16 foot enclosure with adequate substrate would be incredibly difficult, unless you've got access to a dumptruck :). Setting up a large enclosure inadequatly can lead to animals not eating, regurgitating from stress etc. If you can setup a 16 foot enclosure perfectly, go for it! because obviously that is the way to go, but not many people can achieve this as too many factors are against them.(Which are not at ALL related to their own personal husbandry practises) Even the ambient temperature of a house can make it more difficult to heat properly. Personally; I feel a properly heated, ventilated, and setup SMALL enclosure fares far better than a large one that's only setup to about 70% of its potential. Stress and everything that accompanies stress certainly isn't natural; so I would be cautious on what you do.

I'd e-mail Ravi@themonitorspot.com, or checkout his website : www.themonitorspot.com he successfully bred savannahs and wrote a book on it with Daniel Bennet.. he is also very helpful. You may find the book useful... I also don't think Ravi used anything more than an 8x4x4

[chuck911jeep]

Hi! ...Why you didn't said this in your first reply eather then saying bull$hit. "freak out" at first and now setting up. :rolleyes: Daniel and Ravi will probably talk about you in the next book for the quick learned people can do in husbandry technique

[jungleshadows]

One thing thats being confused, it's not about a small cage it's just about a smaller cage.

Small cages would mean it is inadequate and to small for the monitor to begin with. You do not want this either. However I do not think anyone is using the term small cage with this meaning.

Simply a large cage is great gives your monitor more room. However be prepared to put in alot of work. Keeping temps in a larger cage is not as easy to do as a smaller cage. Anyone that cannot see this has never used a huge cage before.

Most of us have the floor of the cages off the ground to prevent to cool of substrate. Now to lift the 16 foot floor off the ground and then have it still hold all the weight of the dirt is not going to be easy. Temperatures etc. everything is going to change in a larger enclosure compared to a smaller one.

Again I do not think anyone here is against offering your monitor lots of room. I for one am not I simply want to offer advice from experience with larger setups and to make sure your prepared for it. As it will not be the same as setting up your smaller setups.

Another thing is with this cage will you be able to seperate them if needed? Sometimes the female will not tolerate the males in with them during nesting. When she nests and covers it in this large cage do you have the experience to know she laid and where she laid them? Or will you be in the cage all day digging for eggs? All of this racket of you digging etc. is stress on your monitor. Even if you remove her during this time.

There is alot to think about. Talking to breeders is a great idea and will help you alot with your goal.

Good luck to you

[V.hb]

Thanks for that much needed clarification Jody.


As for Chuck; you remind me of someone, soo similar.. Gee, I wonder......

[beanersmysav]

Yeah I have read about Ravi's he used that size cage, but he said this is just what I used personally, the bigger the better. I will get in touch with him however and see what he says.

But please let me clarify if you've followed the conversation this is the thrid or fourth time I've mentioned this. Not to be rude but please make note to this. AS I've said I plan on knocking a few feet off the length probably down to 11-13' and just adding to the height. I don't think it will be much harder getting the temp. and humidity right when I'm used to an 8x3x3. However I'll put both monitors in here to begin with and see what becomes of it. If I find that they seem to stress eachother out I will move into a bigger enclosure.

As for the seperating part, obviously I would keep this tank available when the male needs to be seperated and I'm sure he will have nothing against moving into his old enclosure which will still be set up for him.

I'm not lashing at anyone because I enjoy and appreciate the cristicism both good and bad, pros and cons, even though I've thought about most of this it does help me think a little more in depth and to have more oppinions of different monitor keepers. Don't think anyone should jump down anyone elses throat for what others have said to me if we weren't allowed to give oppinions we'd probably be in Cuba :)

[V.hb]

Good luck man!! post pic's when you've completed the project :)

[jungleshadows]

Hello Steeve,

Thats what I have found with large cages too.

Beaner,

As long as your ready for the complications you should be fine. I didn't mean to sound harsh to you. Just expressing my experience and opinions hope you didn't take it as anything more.

[DragnDrop]

Can't play nice, so the thread is closed.