Florida kingsnake?

[condozoo]

Hi everyone! I got this girl a few days ago. I thought she was a Florida king but was told she may be a brooks. Or a blotched. What do you think? I am not familiar with king morph...

http://img150.exs.cx/img150/875/photo0103bq.jpg

:confused:

[marisa]

Don't know which she is but that's a really nice looking king! Congrats.

Marisa

[Katt]

Definitely a blotched king, aka "goini" aka Appalachicola king.

Super nice too!! Patternless almost!

Congrats, quite an uncommon king in Canada.

Florida kings are brook's kings BTW, two names for the same snake. Whomever sold it to you as a florida doesn't know their kings.

Blotched kings, florida/brooks kings aren't morphs, they're subspecies.

[condozoo]

Thanks!

I'm just starting with kings so I'm still a bit mixed up. I just thought she was beautiful when I say her. She was sold to me as a blotched Florida. Thanks for the clarification.

And she's got an attitude!!! But we are working on that... She will get better!

[bighillreptiles]

Where did you get her and how much was she im looking for a pair for a while now beautifull snake !

[condozoo]

I got her from a petshop in Sherbrooke, Qc. They were asking 55$ for her. She's over one year old and she was the only one they had. I am now looking for a male...

By the way, does anyone know a good book on king snake subspecies?

[Ace]

Blotched kings, florida/brooks kings aren't morphs, they're subspecies

Uh, actually Blotched are considered intergrades (Eastern X Florida). They don't have a subspecie classification anymore ;).

By the way, does anyone know a good book on king snake subspecies?

A good first book about Kings is "Kingsnakes and Milksnakes: A Complete Owners Manual" By Markell and Bartlett, pub. 1995 by Barron's publishing. ISBN # 0-8120-4240-9 ;)

Nice Blotched King! I Like it's even pattern! :cool:

[Katt]

Ace, since when did Blotched lose their appalachicolae designation?

Here is my source on Applachicola kings.

http://www.calacademy.org/research/herpetology/ch/ch/2001/5/

[Brandon Osborne]

Yep. They regained sub-specific statis about 2 years ago. The new sub name is meansi. Sad thing is, even if you have good stock, the wannabe purist will still call your stock impure because is wasn't WC. The fact is, I've only seen about 10 of these found in the wild in the last 5 years, but there is lots of pure stock available that is CBB.

Brandon Osborne

[GORDO]

Great looking Blotched! I've got a 4.5ft. male at home and he is most defiinitly one of my nicest looking kings.Congats and as for the atitude I hope it improves.I have had mine for years and he still is alittle high strung.
Good luck.
Gord

[Ace]

I'm aware of the study, but I have yet to hear that is was accepted? Any info there?

[Katt]

Meansi? C;mon, I can't believe they named it after someone!

[Tim and Julie B]

Yeah it was proved to be it's own species through DNA testing at the University of Florida. It was named after the guy who discovered them 20-30 years ago and has been working ever since then to protect them after they were desimated by collectors. Saw it on Snake Wranglers on Nat. Geo. as of 2002 when it was originally broadcast they hadn't named it but the scientist that did the DNA testing (who was also on the show) said it would be named after the herpatoligist.

[Paleosuchus]

Beautiful kingsnake you got there.

Brooks and Florida kingsnakes are not the same snake. Although they look simliar, Brooks, or south florida kings are as the name implies, More south, in the everglades etc.. Florida kings range as far south as lake okeechobee.

[Katt]

Yes brooks and floridas are the same snake. The latin name for brooks is Lampropeltis getulus floridana.

I think what you are talking about are the peninsular integrades which used to be called Florida kings (Lg.floridana), but have been proven to be integrades between eastern kings (L.g.getulus) and brooks (formally known as L.g."brooksi" now probably called L.g.floridana).

King taxonomy is such a jumble!

I wish I had been able to see that show. So. L.g. meansi it is. Hmm, I prefered appalachicolae. Will be they called Mean's snakes? Or are we sticking to Appalachicola kings?

[Ace]

Yeah it was proved to be it's own species through DNA testing at the University of Florida

I just went to the CNAH website to check on this, and according to them it's still not a recognized specie/subspecie. It also says it was last updated 1/11/05. It should be listed if it has indeed been recognized for 2-3 years.

Also, an interesting note I found, seems Knoblochi's are now considered their own species, Lampropeltis Knoblochi, and no longer a Pyro. Man, that's going to take some getting used to!! LOL

CNAH Snake Taxonomy (http://www.cnah.org/nameslist.asp?id=6)

[Brandon Osborne]

To be honest, I doubt they actually keep up with what's truly going on. I would imagine, most of there info is hearsay. Cornsnakes were recently chaged as well. They are no longer labled as elaphe. This change occured about a year or so ago and they are now called pantherophis.......I think.

Brandon Osborne

[Ace]

Which they do have noted....Elaphe guttata (http://www.cnah.org/detail.asp?id=127)
The way they update is, every few years they make a booklet up with all the current taxonomical changes at that time. (last 2002) Then put THOSE on the page. If there are any changes after that point, but before the release of the newer booklet (do out 2006 I believe) they make notations that are marked with either the blue or red notepads. When the next booklet is released the site is changed to match the updated booklet.
So, even though the site says "elaphe gutatta," it is noted that it has been changed to pantherophis. When the new booklet is out the site will be changed to pantherophis. ;)
If "meansi" was accepted, I would expect to see a note explaining that by the main group of getula. And there isn't any. :(

[Feliciano]

Hello, I want to see imagenes of Florida Kingsnake wild.

Greetings

[Brandon Osborne]

Originally posted by Ace
Which they do have noted....Elaphe guttata (http://www.cnah.org/detail.asp?id=127)
The way they update is, every few years they make a booklet up with all the current taxonomical changes at that time. (last 2002) Then put THOSE on the page. If there are any changes after that point, but before the release of the newer booklet (do out 2006 I believe) they make notations that are marked with either the blue or red notepads. When the next booklet is released the site is changed to match the updated booklet.
So, even though the site says "elaphe gutatta," it is noted that it has been changed to pantherophis. When the new booklet is out the site will be changed to pantherophis. ;)
If "meansi" was accepted, I would expect to see a note explaining that by the main group of getula. And there isn't any. :(

Ace, I don't think the name change was made before 2002. I'm pretty sure it was accepted in the last 18 months, so that may have some effect on why it's not on there..........but it is the new accepted name. Personally, I didn't see anything wrong with goini, but the "purists" did. lol.

Brandon

[crimsonking]

Tim, the episode of Snake Wranglers (Nat'l Geo) had Kenny Krysko and Bruce Means out cavorting in the ANF. Krysko had planned on naming the ssp. for Means. I guess it has been done.
However it is specific to the "pure" form which they surely didn't find for the show. He did say that the one they "found" (it was a staged affair with a friend's animal) was an intergrade.
What startled me the most was Dr. Means was shown at Daytona obtaining a pair from Gulf Coast Reptiles and it was implied that he may use those for breeding and possibly RELEASE into the wild.
I hope to hunt the area this spring and find ANY king!
:Mark

[Tim and Julie B]

Oh man your so lucky. Yeah that's the episode I saw. It was really cool. Yeah that one was an intergrade, the roadkill was a pure one though (i think that's what they said). So that was staged.......oh you ruined the magic! :D lol. I sure hope that species can make a come back. So the true meansi and goini are different locals so there for are different snakes with recognized latin names? Wow this is as confusing as the whole it's a brooksi now it's not a brooksi oh now it's a brooksi again. :D scientist should just sit down and figure it out. TB

[bighillreptiles]

I have it taped 24hr marathon of snake ranglers lol

[Ace]

I didn't see anything wrong with goini, but the "purists" did. lol.

Well, I BELIEVE Krysko did away with "Goini" by explaining they were intergrades. So, he had to name it something else if it is legit. ;)
Personally, I'd like to see them have their own ssp. status. But, I need more proof than "it was on TV" (no offense to anyone).
Does anyone have the report OR ANYTHING where it states they have been excepted as a ssp.?

[Brandon Osborne]

I think it's written in Kysko's papers. I'm not sure, but Keith Hillson could tell you exactly where it can be found.

[bighillreptiles]

hay Brandon do you ship into Canada ?? I hope so

[Brandon Osborne]

Not yet Paul, but I've got friends that would do it for me. I'm sure I'll be sending lots of stuff up there this season. Let's just hope it goes better than 04 did.

Brandon

[bighillreptiles]

Cool keep I will keep that in mind