Feeding regimine for fire bellied toads

[Jack]

I'm interested in fire bellied toads, but want to limit my trips to Petco to get crickets and so-forth (preferably no more that once every three weeks). I also would like the keeping of feeders to be a simple as possible, as I'm going to relegate most duties to the kids (their frogs).

I wanted to know if the following feeding regimine would be acceptable for firebellied toads:

Feed crickets for 1-2 weeks.
Feed meal worms and earth worms for 1-2 weeks.
An occasional fish (firebellies would be housed in a rivertank with some small fish).
During the warmer months (approx. 7-8 mos. per year), all feedings could be supplemented with wild caught bugs.
During warm and cool weather (approx. 10 mos. per year), all feedings could be supplemented with gutloaded slugs (gutloaded with my dog's dogfood).

Earthworms and mealworms are easy to keep, as I can keep in the outside refrigerator. Crickets are more problematic, as they take some care and if not used fairly quickly, they could grow too large.

This regimine would mean I would only have to go to Petco about once every three weeks, possibly less often in warmer months. I would gutload all feeders and would dust appropriately. Any thoughts?

[Double J]

A few feeders you have mentioned are somewhat problematic for these frogs.

Mealworms: these are loaded with chitin, and make a poor choice of food for a weak-jawed frog like Bombina. Plus, all of that chitin (the hard shell) can lead to intestinal blockage. Mealworms are a satisfactory food that should be offered only occasionally to frogs like these.

Earth Worms: Stay away from these like the plague if you purchase them from a bait shop. Commercially bred earthworms are loaded with nitrates, and a multitude of other chemicals, and are also raised on chicken garbage as well as a variety of other waste and animal feces. If you dig up a few from a pestcide free area (ie somewhere that has not been sprayed in at least two years), you can start up a nice culture of them in a large rubbermaid. Home cultured worms would be a great suppmental food.

Slugs: These damn things will infest your tank, be impossible to get rid of, and the frogs do not really like them. Plus, I beleive that slugs may have some natural toxins that may make them unpalatable for these frogs, but don't quote me on that (I should look for a refereence either way). Once you get slugs in your tank, they will be there forever, eating your plants, sliming everything up, and looking awful.

You can never really get away from crickets when you keep frogs. They are often the best staple.

I will suggest this; When you buy crickets, buy a moderate quantity (100-150) of the "half-inch" sized crickets. Keep them on the cool side (below 20 degrees), which will slow their growth. By the time they are approaching full size, three weeks will have passed anyway, which is the time frame you hoped to work with. My Bombina actually eat 3/4 inch, to full sized crickets on a regular basis as it is. You would be surprised what these frogs can wrangle down as prey insects. Mine have been on this feeding regimen for almost three years now. Then, if you keep three frogs, you will only need to buy 100-150 crickets per petco trip, that is if you go every three weeks. I would say this is fairly reasonable.

In the end, it all comes back to crickets. Their care is actually fairly minimal, and with the 5000-6000 I deal with every week, I spend less than 10 minutes per week on their care, and my feeders are immaculate.

Good luck

[Jack]

Thanks Double J.

I'm probably making too big a deal of cricket care, but before obtaining any animal, I want to make sure I can care for it properly; and that the care is not overly burdensome. I kept coral reef tanks for about 8 years. It was a wonderful hobby. I changed jobs about 3.5 years ago and had less free time. The care of my tanks became a burden and the hobby was no longer enjoyable so I sold everything. This tank is pretty small and the responsibility of my two kids. However, I know I will still have to help and the burden of taking care of, will sometimes fall on my shoulders. Also, my kids can't drive to the pet store. Anyway, I just want to make sure I know what I'm getting into as I will not allow animals to suffer, just because I don't feel like taking care of them.

Also, what's the deal with bait shop earthworms and nitrates? I've never heard that.

[Double J]

If you are a former reef guy, cricket care should be a snap.. and you will find the frog hobby to be far less work, and incredibly enjoyable.

A varied diet is a great thing. It is good that you are looking into it.

As for the bait shop earthworm stigma, I read about that in a few frog books, and heard it from a few other frog keepers. Commercial worm operations use a lot of crap with their worms, and the chicken feces and waste truly turns bait worms off for me as a food source. That said, if you want to culture your own, that is a great alternative.

Anyway, keep us posted on your progress Jack. I can't wait to see some pcs of your setup.

[Jack]

Is the simplest cricket enclosure, just a small, Rubbermaid container? I figure I can get one approx. the size of a 10 gal tank, cut some holes in the top and I'm done. I'm hoping the sides of a Rubbermaid would be slick enough to keep the crickets from climbing very high. Any thoughts?

[Steve]

put vaseline along the top 2 inches of the rubbermaid...the crix won't be able to climb up it. For the lid of the rubbermaid I would cut out a large square and put metal screen over it. Just some holes won't be enough ventilation, you will find that you will lose alot of crix that way

[ydnic]

as long as you keep alot of egg crates cut up in there they won`t be interetsed in climbing -

I keep mine in ice cream pails - all I do I poke a few holes in them - put eggcrates stacked up and a piece of potatoe and a bunch of gut load in with them and they seem to be fine

I keep 40-50 per ice cream pail

[Jack]

I figured I could make the holes fairly large as long as I could keep the crickets inside. I could even cut large slits to allow for good ventilation. Of course, I could just use a screen top as you suggested.

Ydnic, how long are you able to keep your crickets in your pails and do you offer another water source or just the potato?

[ydnic]

just a potatoe - I used to use sponges before but that was just too messy

I dunno I feed them pretty quick - crickets go canabilistic if they don`t have enough hiding spots or food - if you change the potatoe piece every couple days and have tons of cardboard egg crates stacked in the pail and plenty of gut load powder in there they do fine. If you kept 30 or so in an ice cream pail at a time you could make them last about 2 weeks maybe - maybe longer.

You could just breed them yourself - if you look it up on the internet its pretty easy - then you would never have to run to the pet store - you can even buy cricket eggs from ebay to get started!

[peterm15]

or you could just buy a few dozen cris... lol...

i used to keep a large rubbermaid... about 30gal... and put 1000 in there... you could really use any amount... but beware of deadones.... for every 1000 u used to loose about 200... but its way cheeper... i did pay 25 bucks for the box... but i stopped cause it was just to much.... all my animals needed different sizes and it just wasnt worth it... im thinking about getting back to it... if you use a small rubbermaid inside with the gutload and a nother with potato.. (with lots of room to get in there) itll make cleaning 1/2 as hard...

its a real money saver... a dozen costs lets say $1 to be fair.... i find usually 1.25-1.50 but well say $1.. now 83 dozen in 1000 thats 83 bucks... so buying a box just makes sense... as long as you keep them cool.... and if you buy smaller that they can take... by the time you finish youll have a size thats they can still handle... then again i dont know how much you feed frogs....

(i think i just talked myself back into buying the boxes)

[Jack]

Double J mentioned bait shop earthworms containing high amounts of nitrates. Anywhere to get "clean" earthworms on-line? I like earthworms because they're easy to keep. They'll keep in a refrigerator for months.