New Egg(s?)

[Jason Wakelin]

Well my female Frog Eyed Sand Gecko (Teratoscincis keyserlingi) decided to lay again last night, a great New Years present! But, she only laid one egg this time. So if I don't see another by tomorrow morning I'll assume laying season is over. I may be wrong about this as it is my first go at Teratoscincus. Any one out there have any nuggets of wisdom, on this genera in particular?

Thanks

[Tim and Julie B]

They often lay single eggs. They can breed year round if given the right set up and diet. Often you'll get pairs of eggs and occassionally singles. It's normal:)

JB

[DragnDrop]

Congrats!!
Whatever nuggets you get, please share them here. My female is definitely gravid so I can use some tips too.

All I know is they usually lay 3-4 clutches (individual variation), not always 2 eggs per clutch, and the eggs are extremely fragile. I've been told to use caps from water bottles to hold the eggs securely in the delicups.

Get the camera ready, I want to see pictures of the little gaffer :)

[Jason Wakelin]

Thanks for the replies. Last time she threw me 2 eggs, but I was out of town at the time. So by the time I recovered them it appears they had dried out a bit too much. This egg appears to be in perfect shape, and was not delicate at all. Interestingly enough though, she does not want to use the laying chamber I provided. Yet lays the egg(s) out in the open. The chamber has a side (not top) entrance, is just barely deep enough (with peat and pearlite) to cover the eggs, and is not that humid at all. It all makes me wish I'd spent more time with Tom Huff (RIP), when he had them years (and years) ago at the Reptile Breeding Foundation.

[Tim and Julie B]

The eggs are very much like pictus gecko eggs in that they are fragile and thin shelled. If your female is kicking out the substrate then I would definately replace the laying box with the side hole with one that has one on top. They like to feel as though they are going into a deep hole to lay their eggs:)

I prefer a "dry" laying box so that the egg doesn't get moisture build up and mold if they are layed while I'm away. I line the lay boxes with wax paper then add sand or dry vermiculite over top of it. If you should get an egg that is stuck to the wax paper you just use an exacto blade to cut the paper around the egg before placing it into a bottle cap for incubation. I choose wax paper over news print or paper towel because it will not effect the egg during incubation.

In my experience it is best to place the eggs into pop bottle caps filled with sand. The sand holds the egg still and works wonders. You can place the egg-bottle cap into a deli cup of vermiculite without worrying about it drying out.

Good luck with them, and make sure to give that female plenty of calcium. Maybe I will get into them again (for fun) in the future!

Julie

edit to add*
I also have a tip for knowing which side is the top should they lay the eggs and then kick them around after before you get to them. I once caught my female in the act of laying eggs so I decide to wait her out to see the whole thing. They lay the eggs after a lot of digging and re-digging a large whole. The female will lay in her hole a few minutes (my guess is to regain her energy) before laying the eggs. Once laid she backed away, waited for the shell to harden, and THEN covered them up. I knew the top was the side WITHOUT sand stuck to it because it had been dry before she buried it. Logically:D the bottom was wet when laid, therefore the sand stuck only to the bottom. Not too "news breaking" or anything, but perhaps useful to anyone new to hard-shelled egg layers!:)

[Jason Wakelin]

Thank you for that excellent post!

As for the hiding/laying box, I actually switched to a side hole from the top because they/she wouldn't even enter it. And thanks for confirming my thought about pretty low humidity in it. The medium is just slightly moist (if you can even describe it as that), but compared to the sand in the rest of the enclosure it is a second choice. The idea of lining it with waxed paper is absolutely brilliant, no way I'd of thought of it. I will also use it for my Odeura and Agamura females who will be laying soon!

Thank you for the tip on the egg positioning. It is amazing what you can learn when you take the time to watch your animals closely. What you said makes so much sence, but again I doubt I'd of thought of it unless I'd actually been there to watch her lay.

When I first removed the egg the shell did not seem very stiff at all. But I just checked it, and it has stiffened up. I wonder if this may be a lack of calcium or just a really fresh find?

Finally, were the specimens you worked with extremely defensive? I don't try to pick mine up very often as their skin seems very delicate. But if I even get close to them (out in the open) they will actually leap off the ground to bite me. For such a small lizard, they sure have a big (read- bleeding finger) bite.

Again thank you for the reply, I'm having lots of fun with these little critters.

[Tim and Julie B]

Thanks for enjoying my post so much:) I do try to examine all the activities of my animals, to the point of being slightly obsessive! lol I even used to hand feed each of my leos to see the way they ate and how much each would eat and how quickly. But, it's all for the love of my crazy hobby!:D

I'm an "inventive" kind of person and am always looking for as many ways as is possible to do things. Guess my mind has trouble shutting down, but when you are an on again/off again insomniac that's just plain normal:)

Well, most likely you found the egg while it was pretty darn fresh. I usually leave them until they harden to move them into the incubator. Same as for the pictus.

I've been lucky enough not to have too many aggressive geckos. My aft's are an exception though, evil they are (they actually chase my hand to bite it). My roborowskis weren't exactly "friendly", but I could scoop them into my cupped hands and they would walk on them without incident. I did find that they would much rather hide though. With the exception of feeding time:D when they would make a mad dash for the crickets.

If I think of any other interesting tidbits I'll be sure to post them. I really miss working with the species, and other similar ones, but being able to talk about them to people with a genuine interest is just as rewarding!

Julie

[Jason Wakelin]

I kind of thought mine were a bit overly defensive. The second pair of adult Teratoscincus I have comming in are at a friends house, and they are not at all like mine as far as temperment goes. But being as I've not seen this genera up close and live for 17 or 18 years now, these are the only 4 specimens I have to base my opinion(s) on.

I've only kept 5 AFT's, and every one has been sweet as pie. In fact, I have never heard of a defensive AFT. But I've worked with a fair number of animals over the past 20+ years, and am seasoned enough to know there are always exceptions to the rule. I loved working with them (AFT's), but, was never able to breed them.

As far as pictus go, I can take or leave them. Cute little buggers, or should I say, cute little breeding machines. I picked up a pair from a fellow locally about 6 years ago, and the female laid herself to death. I forget how many eggs I got and hatched, but it seemed like every time I turned around there were eggs in the cage. And if I recall correctly every single egg was fertile.

I think my favourite of the terrestrial geckos so far was the pair of Goniurosaurus k. splendens my wife brought back for me from Japan. At the time it was like "pulling hens' teeth" to find information on the keeping and breeding of this species. Outside of a few contacts I'd made in Germany and Japan. They were absolutely beautiful with their pink and black colouration. Also very "cat like" in their movements. In the end, I sold them to a young lady in Edmonton, as my children were very young and needed all of my time.

Finally, I completely understand about watching your animals to the point of near obsession. When I was in my early 20's I was given the opportunity to work in a reptile display in Ontario. The owner of the animals had built a small "apartment" within the building. This was possible because it used to be an aquarium previously and there was lots of unused space as a result of the transition. Anyway, I lived in the apartment and would find myself constantly observing the displays from the public side after we had closed. Actually, after I left that position I went to work and live in a private facility in which I was able to constantly be in touch with the animals (mostly venemous snakes).

Thanks for the advice Julie, and the chance to take a trip down memory lane. I'm not usually so long winded, I've been here more than 2 years and have less than 40 posts. And if you think of any other tidbits on Teratoscincus, fire away, I'm always looking for advice.

Jason

[DragnDrop]

I've always read and been told by a breeder that they'll lay eggs in bone dry areas only. The book I have mentions that the eggs shouldn't touch moist substrate, so maybe that's why she laid the eggs outside the laying box? Humidity is important for incubating, but don't let the eggs get wet.

I haven't had my pair for long, but have noticed they're the most curious geckos I've ever had, and can also be quite defensive. The female tends to just watch me when I'm cleaning out the poop, but the male will stand tall, arch his back, swish his tail and strike with his mouth open. Who'd have thought he object to someone stealing his dried poops? :) He hasn't bit me (yet) but I'm sure he'd do it if it weren't also the hand that feeds him.
They get fed around the same time of day, so they seem to have learned the routine. They'll both stick their heads out of the hides when I approach with food and watch me carefully. As soon as the lid opens, they're out running to the food dish. Even from the day I got them, they'd willingly be handfed, specially mealworm beetle treats.
They come right out when there's someone walking around, and can spend a long time watching the cat looking at them (it's a cat proofed enclosure, the cat is safe from them :)
The morning I saw them mating, the cat was standing up at the enclosure, nose pressed against the front watching them. Their faces were turned sideways towards her, watching her watching them, but their back ends were busy doing the mating thing. I tried to get a picture of them watching each other but didn't have enough time.

[Jason Wakelin]

Dragndrop

Your geckos sound like they act very much like me, except for the feeding part. I've not once seen mine eat, and definately could not hand feed them!

Thanks for the tip on incubating in the bottle cap (as Julie also mentioned). I've never used this method with other eggs, but am doing it with their's. In the past I have mostly bred snakes, and only about 20 or so species at that. As far as lizards go; Alligator Lizards (livebearing), Leopard Geckos, Pictus Geckos, Nile Monitors, Water Monitors (eggs were infertile), Velvet Geckos, and that's it if my memory is correct. So I'm always learning something new. It really has been helping alot lately to be working in tandem with someone else who is more experienced with geckos and frogs.

Funny my cat likes to watch the Frog Eyes too. But I discourage this with a heavy feline misting, he hates water!

Again, thanks for the advice! When I started a long time ago there were some great "oldtimers" to get advice from. But, still wish there had been forums like this back then.

Jason