live feeding

[legolas]

is live feeding legal in Canada and the USA? it isnt in England.

[BWSmith]

It is legal, but of course discouraged by responsible keepers.

[legolas]

im pleased to hear that responsible owners discourage live feeding. its a good thing that over here it is illegal. thank you for letting me know.

[CamHanna]

How do you start more difficult species? Is it illegal to feed any animal live or just rodents? Is the law enforced?

As BWSmith said live-feeding is widely discouraged over here but occasionally a snake will not take prekilled prey and in these cases feeding live is often considered acceptable. I have a Longnose snake that is currently on live pinkies.

[C.ADAMANTEUS]

I have a Kahl Albino BCC that actually is hard to feed UNLESS its live, and she can HUNT it. She'll be 6 next year and I got her at 6 mo. and have only gotten her to take f/t rats 5 or 6 times ever, and it took some doing. But I love her, and supervise every feeding.

[JimmyDavid]

It's illegal based on what?

[chas*e]

I feed f/t for easy and safe feeding but there are some snakes that I can't so I feed live and watch closely

[spidergecko]

From what I understand, live feeding is illegal in the UK except for animals that will die without. So you could technically live feed to start off a poor feeder but once it moves to FT/prekilled you need to switch over completely. My guess is the law is probably enforced about as frequently as our Toronto by-law about keeping cats on leads or street parking longer than 3 hours. I doubt officers are out there looking for law breakers unless someone complains.

[JimmyDavid]

If someone complains that's because it already took place. If it's done how is the person gonna be caught in the act? If you can't catch someone in the act how are you gonna prove something like that?
Get's pointless any way you think of it.

[peterm15]

its like one of thoes stupid laws...

like in calgary if you go to jail the law states that you MUST be given a horse and a loaded revolver to ride out of town with....lol...

its probably just someone complained once so they made a law... either that or it is aimed more toward petstores than anything...

[legolas]

the last by-law sounds hilarious. lol.
petstores arent allowed to sell you rodents and the like, if it suspected that it will be used as food.
my boa was found dumped on a building site around 6 years ago. she had been left for dead.
with lots of TLC she is now 9 feet long, abit overweight and beautiful.
i have been very lucky and never had to live feed her.
my daughters 3 month old corn also takes dead very well.
maybe we are just lucky.
now have the urge to research Englands by-laws. lol.

[legolas]

to answer another question, crickets, locusts, mealworm etc have to, obviously, be given as live prey.
otherwise all live feeding is illegal.
it is classed as inhumane and cruel.
im not too sure if the law would be enforced. something i must look into.

[tonyj]

Geez! No wonder we're running low on horses and 45's, as all them there Easterners are leaving town and headin' back home.

The Trans-Canada must be knee deep in road apples and empty shells, as it heads out towards the Saskaberian border and beyond. Now we know why.

Good for the roses though!

[JimmyDavid]

I noticed that you said it's illegal because it's cruel. That means they are not concerned that a rodent might bite a snake. So they discriminate wich animal is more important... It's Stupid.
The snake has no right to kill for food, the rodent has the right to be protected from becoming food.
I have a question : what if you use a snake to feed ANOTHER snake? does the rule aplly? Because in that case they would be protecting the same animal that they didn't give a **** about before.

[Youkai]

It's illegal because it is inhumane. We aren't talking about the wild, we're talking about an animal thrown in a glass (or plastic) box that is being hunted down. The stress and pain to the prey animal caused by this is classified as inhumane.
Other than insects, all live feeding is illegal. That would include feeding a live snake to another snake.

I noticed that you said it's illegal because it's cruel. That means they are not concerned that a rodent might bite a snake. So they discriminate wich animal is more important... It's Stupid.

Tell me...when else in captivity, other than being thrown into a snake's enclosure as food, would a rodent bite a snake? I'm not sure what wall you're bouncing off of right now.

[RepTylE]

Originally posted by legolas


my boa was found dumped on a building site around 6 years ago. she had been left for dead.
with lots of TLC she is now 9 feet long, abit overweight and beautiful.


If that boa was left for dead like that then I think that a greater cruelty than feeding live is clearly shown.

[Youkai]

If that boa was left for dead like that then I think that a greater cruelty than feeding live is clearly shown.


So what does this mean? That you would ban the keeping of reptiles based on human neglect? Or are you saying two wrongs make a right?

I'm getting confused by some of the arguments people are putting forth. The thread starter simply said live feeding, with the exception of bugs, is illegal because it is seen as inhumane. Yes, so is leaving a snake to die. Are you perhaps saying because people are cruel in general that all cruelties should be allowed?

If you think it isn't inhumane, say so and say why.
So far...I've seen a couple people sort of attack the law and seem quite disgruntled...but the arguments are confusing.

[spidergecko]

Originally posted by JimmyDavid
I noticed that you said it's illegal because it's cruel. That means they are not concerned that a rodent might bite a snake. So they discriminate wich animal is more important... It's Stupid.
The snake has no right to kill for food, the rodent has the right to be protected from becoming food.
I have a question : what if you use a snake to feed ANOTHER snake? does the rule aplly? Because in that case they would be protecting the same animal that they didn't give a **** about before.

If you are so interested why don't you take a look at UK records and find out the reason for it? People can give the reasons they think the law was put into place but without evidence it is only assumption. Obviously the law was thought out for some time because it is only recently that practices like fox hunting was banned and that has to be worse than live feeding.

People have already demonstrated that most snakes in captivity don't need live food so I don't think the government is putting snakes before mice or disregarding the welfare of snakes in general.

[legolas]

i wasnt looking for arguements when i asked the original question on live feeding. i do happen to agree with much of what has been said.
i dont happen to agree with fox hunting either. its barbaric.
in my opinion, the cruelest species on this planet are us humans.
i asked the original question because a family member who lives in the US thinks that to kill the rodent first is inhumane.
she believes that to watch "the kill" is fun. i tried to explain that its not a case of being fun, you should do what is best for the herp.
her justification for her actions are that she supplies the rodent with food, water and a place to hide.
notice, no mention of her herp at all.

[lostwithin]

I think making live feeding illegal is a good idea, I realize as much as anyone that it is sometimes necessary and that there is no way to really regulate it. but just the fact it is illegal would eliminate allot of people doing it. all those people who think it's "cool" would think twice before making it a regular practice. it would still happen but it would encourage the use of prekilled prey.

Devon

[ravensgait]

Oh man ANIMAL RIGHTS Activist owning pets !!! Fox Hunting is BARBARIC. Well I'll take on the Live verses killed issue first, I think I am safe in saying that most people who prefer feeding deceased animals to their Herps do so more to protect their animals from possible harm then for any feelings for the prey animal. Myself if it's a youngster it starts on live, if it will adjust to fresh killed or F/T when older great if not I'm not going to starve one of our snakes to force it to eat pre killed. Yes I'm sure that it can't be any fun being grabbed , hugged way to tightly, and dieing but that's what nature designed them to do and made more rats and mice etc. then we or the snakes can ever put much of a dent into . I'll say this if it's ever outlawed over here I'll get rid of my animals and find somewhere else to live because the nuts have taken over.

As for Fox hunting why is it barbaric? For the most part they get chased around by dogs and every once in a while one gets caught. Seeing as there are no wolves etc to do the same naturally ie kill off the slow and less fit, why shouldn't numans and their hounds take up the slack and keep the fox in England from regressing? It's not like you don't have more than enough Fox over there heck they live in the cities.

By the way this did happen a few years back and yes I'm aware that fox hunting has been outlawed in merry old England.


What is barbaric is a bunch of Animal rights Activist forceing a pack of hounds who were chaseing a fox, off of a crossing over electric train tracks. The dogs fried to death to the cheers of the Animal rights ers. Now in my book and any reasonable human beings book that is sick cruel and barbaric! The fox who most likely would not have been caught went on its merry way.

And I know some one will bring it up- No the dogs are not forced to hunt they hunt because they love it. If you've ever owned a hunting dog that does hunt then you know that sometimes you wonder what they love more you or the game they hunt. Randy

[legolas]

im not an animal activist. i just believe that there is a more humane way to kill some animals.
ie; shoot a fox if you must, if its causing a real problem.
at the end of the day, none of us would like to be chased by a pack of anything, whether it be animal or human.

[RepTylE]

Originally posted by Youkai
So what does this mean? That you would ban the keeping of reptiles based on human neglect? Or are you saying two wrongs make a right?

I'm getting confused by some of the arguments people are putting forth. The thread starter simply said live feeding, with the exception of bugs, is illegal because it is seen as inhumane. Yes, so is leaving a snake to die. Are you perhaps saying because people are cruel in general that all cruelties should be allowed?

If you think it isn't inhumane, say so and say why.
So far...I've seen a couple people sort of attack the law and seem quite disgruntled...but the arguments are confusing.


First off I must say huh??

I commented on the cruelty of leaving an animal to die is much mor cruel than feeding live. What you take exception to I don't understand unless discarding an animal that you don't want is your idea of a kindness. That in my mind is more cruel than feeding live. If our opinions differ on that then I am afraid that we have to agree to disagree on that. I din't advocate any ban at all so I must be equally confused here.
I have stated in many threads that I don't believe in feeding live myself but in the cases where it is neccessary, then do it but try to get the animal in question weaned off live if possible.

[peterm15]

you have to do whats best for the animal... wether it be f/t or live it doesnt matter... personally i wouldnt breed snakes or get one that didnt eat f/t but that is because i love animals and couldnt do that to a mouse( id end up keeping more than feeding) lol... as for hunting, i have no prob with it, and as for the law against live prey, i have nothing against that either... there is nothing rong with that law, and theres nothing rong with feeding live...

i do have one ? thogh... someone said thay cant sell rodents if its thought that it will be used for food... but what happens if you do need to feed live... then what... do you get a special permet.

[spidergecko]

I'll mention it again, the law allows live feeding for animals that will die without it.

There really shouldn't be much of an issue to this. Most CB animals don't need live feeding and it has already been established that non-live feeding is safer. So even if a law was implemented internationally, no one would be losing their pets because of it. No one would be sending their snakes to the snakey shelter or setting them lose. The reptile trade is still going strong in the UK and their snakes are not suffering because of it.

BTW, let's not turn this into an issue of animal rights activists, PETA or whatever because it isn't.

edit: I should mention that my statement "There really shouldn't be much of an issue to this," means the keeper of the snake should make their own (legal) choice here in North America. I wasn't implying there should be a law and that there is no reason otherwise ;)

[legolas]

i totally agree with you. leaving an animal to die in a building site is beyond cruel. thats why when she was found, she wasnt left there. i do not understand how someone can do that to another living creature.
if i didnt look after her, she would have died a long time ago.
as it is, my baby is healthy, beautiful and very much loved.
when she was found, i knew nothing about looking after boas, now i know she is in safe hands.
it seems that the only possible reason she was dumped in the first place is, the last 2 inches of her tail are deformed.
in my eyes, no reason to treat her in such an inhumane way.

[peterm15]

no one answered my question... if you must feed live for the sake of the animal then do you need a permet or do you just have to fly under the radar

[nita]

Originally posted by spidergecko
I'll mention it again, the law allows live feeding for animals that will die without it.



Spider gecko answered you quite a while back.

I dont' think that it is inhumane to feed live, I think a snake kills the mouse or rat fast, I prefer feeding FT cause it is way easier to keep a stash of FT rats in my freezer than a bunch of live rodents. As for inhumane. Check out where your burgers and bacon come from and the manner in which they are killed. We are much more humane with the way we kill our rats for our snakes than we are with how our own food is put down. Funny how that works. They should be looking at stricter laws there not stopping snakes from killing mice dumb politicians, but hey money talks in governments!

[Manitoban Herps]

How is live feeding cruel to the rodent?
Are they going to make it illegal for snakes to kill live prey in the wild?

[peterm15]

i realise that... thats not my question though...

Originally posted by legolas
petstores arent allowed to sell you rodents and the like, if it suspected that it will be used as food.

so if there not aloud to sell them to you if its for food how do you get them... wouldnt you just be able to walk in and say "he needs it or hell die" without ever even tryin f/t....

so if you really wanted to you could totally excuse that law... thats why i asked if a permet is needed or do you have to get them from somewhere special..

[JAdkins2451]

I think this thread got a little off track. Legolis only asked if it was illegal to feed live prey, As it is illegal where he comes from. The questions has nothing to do if its right or wrong way. I belive people could argue you about it for hours. Manitobian Heps what does making it illegal for snakes to eat live in the wild have anything to do with original question have to do with it. Thats like saying wolves cant eat deer when its not our hunting season.

[RepTylE]

Yup it must be the season affecting this thread