Why are we all b*$%^es?

[timfriesen32]

I am fairly new to this hobby (2 years) and I'm getting a little worried about how involved I want to get. I've had dreams and goals of eventually breeding boas but with all the crap flying around about dishonest people, and people screwing other people over I'm getting a little scared.

Where are these new people (newer than me) supose to turn? They can't come here....they get bi#$%#@ at for not doing their research.....ever think that they might not know how to do a search of this site for previous posts on similar subjects? Maybe we should be more helpful with our responses, or just not respond at all. Why do we insist on slamming the people for being newbies?

I've been fortunate to get 2 good deals, but it seems like all we hear about are "this guy screwed me", or "this person's stock has mites" or "this guy is advertising animals he doesn't have" or "the animals are not what they say they are (hets)". Who can we trust any more? It seems like everyone has screwed over at least 1 other person some how, and that kind of disturbs me.

Breeders can't make any money if they don't sell their babies, but it sometimes seems like we're not doing anything to promote our hobby to the newbies. We keep slamming each other to discredit the next guy, while they are doing the same to us...who can we trust?

Sometimes it just seems like it's a big c$!k swinging contest to see who can slam the next guy worse. I'm getting to the point where I don't know who I could buy any new herps from based on what gets posted. That's pretty pathetic I think.

That's just my opinion though.

Tim

[Brent Strande]

Not sure where all that came from, but I dont think that EVERYONE has screwed someone, just a select few... you just hear about that stuff more.

[Scales Zoo]

The things you described, usually is what seperates the "hobbiests" from the "not hobbiests".

The "not hobbiests" can be in that class for many reasons, but usually money has something to do with it.

The line is not black and white however, usually shades of grey. And it is a vertical line. Most people, I think, sway left and right, going into darker and lighter shades from where they started, throughout their hobby, or "career".

I'd say the trend is going more to the dark money side, a lot of people getting into snakes, not because they have liked snakes since they were a kid (as was the case for most people 5 years ago and earlier), but because they know someone who makes money buy breeding snakes - and they want some easy money (nothing against easy money).

The internet and money will be the downfall to many hobbies, not just this one.

The money side can make the hobby side less fun, but not the other way around.

Ryan

[Jeff_Favelle]

If you worry about what others think and say, yet are an honest person, then no, no public business is for you.

Snake breeding and selling is for people who enjoy it, who don't care what others beside their famaily and close friends think, and who have a passion for working with animals in the first place. If any one of those 3 don't apply, then don't bother.

As far as getting screwed on a deal, well its 95% impossible if you do your homework (properly) and almost 100% impossible if you travel to a reptile show and buy the animal in person and inspect it. There are reputable breeders. These are the people who you hear about TIME AND TIME again, yet there's not a peep about them on the BOI. 100's of transactions a year and nothing bad? The chances of that ONE bad transaction happening to you is pretty negligable.

If you aren't going to go into a hobby/business because an online forum isn't giving newbies the advice in the manner in which you see fit, then you can do one of two things. 1) YOU can give the advice the way that pleases you, or 2) don't go into the "biz". Honestly, if something like that is going to turn you off of working with snakes (hey MAYBE actually working with the snakes should comprise 99% of your effort and all the online stuff 1%??) then definitely don't delve into it because you'll get fried.

If you just work with the snakes you like, trust the people that can be trusted (family first, friends next, and then extend from there), make smart business decisions, and have a few other, varied investments, you WILL BE FINE! Its all about working with the animals (at least, it is for me). SO why would you let the forum/online stuff deter you? The only way it SHOULD bother you is if the forum stuff is more important than the actual snake stuff. Make the animals the most impotrant part of the equation, and the other stuff just doesn't seem so significant.

Moral of my babbling? LOL! Don't give up on a hobby because of what you read on the Internet. That would be downright willy.

[Jeff_Favelle]

Ha ha I meant "silly". Willy he said...........

[Ptindy]

I agree with Jeff. You'll only hear about the bad transactions. Just from reading in this forum and talking to a couple reputable breeders I know where I'm buying my herps. As for the internet, people love to talk from where they can't be seen.

Mike

[BOAS_N_PYTHONS]

TIM:

I agree with Jeff, in the end its all about the passion for the animals. When the money becomes the issue I doubt people can claim the same.

Don' t let the negative push you out of your love for reptiles.

:)

Tony Pharosx

[BoidKeeper]

Who can we trust any more?
People that have been around for a long time and have bred and sold a lot of animasl. They have been around and sold a lot for a reason. These people have something to lose. Or, you can buy from someone that are stand up to begin with. Be aware of people who hide too much about themselves. I've often found that the people in this hobby with out a real job are the worse ones because they are totally dependent upon selling their animals and will often do or say what ever it takes. They also seem to be the most cut throat and are quick to stab others in the back.
Cheers,
Trevor

[timfriesen32]

My passion for the hobby is not in question. I enjoy keeping snakes, and will always continue to keep them. It's just all the negative stuff that seems to be constantly flying around.

Maybe I'm overreacting, but it sometimes seems like you think that all is good with a certain breeder, and then you hear something different that makes you think otherwise.

I realize that everyone has expectations when making a deal, and if those aren't met 100%, people seem to get flamed pretty bad. It just sometimes seems like some of this drama that gets posted publicly would be more well served if it was dealt with in private through pms or email. When it's dealt with out in the open and in public, it sometimes seems like some people are just out there to make others look inferior to them. Hence the reason for the c$@# swinging comment in the initial post (no disrespect for all the female herp keepers).

I don't know, maybe I'm just to paranoid and yet trust people to easily. It just kind of sucks when someone who you thought was a legit, trustworthy person, ends up a bad rep for whatever reason.

Tim

[timfriesen32]

Sorry for the double post.....I have to agree, money makes us all crazy, it just sucks when money takes priority over the enjoyment of the animals, and other people's reputations.

[Manitoban Herps]

Tim whats snake do you have now?Get anything new since you sold your dum?

[peterm15]

well ive been thinking of breeding my leos and soon crecties... but ive held off so far cause i dont know what to do with the juvies.... when they hatch ill feed make sure there in good health ect. ect... i dont want to sell to a pet store... i want to make sure there goin to a good home... but for me its not about the profit.... cover the crix and maybe i couple extra bucks and there... 5-10 bucks.... but if i advertise that i wanna sell leos for 5 bucks what are the other breeders gonna say... i dont really care whatr ppl think but i also dont want alot of bad stuff floating around with my name behind it... and the sad part is it prob will happen....

i wanna do it for the love of the animals but have held off for exactly that reason...

i know what your saying about neg. posts but for every bad one you get theres 2 good... ive read through alot of this forum and found that...

[Vengeance]

Problem with selling animals at $5 a pop is you start atracting the people who treat animals as throw away animals. You hear things like "Well I only paid $5 for it, why should I pay $100 for a vet when I can just buy a new one." Atleast by chargeing the market value of the animal it will make people think twice before "Throwing away" an animal because it was so cheap.

[Simon]

I'd really agree with Jeff here

Yes there are always good and bad people around, its like that in every business. If you know any business that has only the good side, let me know.

We can't really do anything about it.
The only thing that you can do is to be a good person. Sell out animals that you think are healthy and if any problems occure, back it up. Things like, replacement, refund, or even offer any help at all.

Don't be discouraged by others that are not reputable.

This is why a lot of people would rather buy from reputatable breeders that have been around for a long time. People like Jeff, Roy, Trevor, and many other people are very reputatble, with great animals, provide great customer services (answering all questions that are thrown at them) and all. These are the people that are really keeping the hobby/'biz' alive.

A lot of people maybe out just for the money, but there are still others that are here because of their passion for the animals. Just do your part in providing healthy and great animals and you'll do fine.

Don't loose the passion~~

[peterm15]

ya good point... but i was also thinking that maybe ill give the dealers first dibs.... like give it to them for a much lower cost before selling them myself.... that way they can make the money.... thats not what im in if for.. i dont know what ill end up doin yet but maybe even pet stores would be a better plan....

oh and by 5 dollars i ment ppl on here... someone with a reptuation or a hobbiest you know... otherwise i dunno know what im gonna do...

[Gregg M]

If you are not sure what you are going to do with babies, than you might be better off not breeding them at all..... You should be prepared to hold on to them for a while if you can not sell them right away..... Selling them for 5 to 10 bucks just to unload them is a bad idea..... It is nice to breed reptiles, but if you are not ready to house a bunch of babies or are not able to sell them off, do not do it.... Remember, leos breed easily and have up to 12 young in a single season..... Sometimes more..... Things can get crowded quickly......

[Brent Strande]

Also, if you're gonna sell them... why is it so EVIL to make any money from them? I hear people say that they will sell em, but don't want to make any money. Whether you sell em for $5 or $50, either way its a sale, so why just dump em like that?

To make money is not a sin...

[peterm15]

i know. i found a place to unload ( tried to think of a better word but i have a headach) cresties and possible a place for leos...( went searching tonight) housing for even a year is not a problem... after doing a little more thinking i decided to deal with the pet stores i deal with... theres nothing rong with makin money its just thats not what im in it for... so i figure if a dealer on here wants to cover crix for the leos they can have them... if not ill find other sorces.. thats all.... ones thing for sure ill definatly find the sorces BEFORE i breed... i just really dont wanna upset anyone... thats my main thing...