Really worried...please take a peek guys.

[marisa]

My boyfriend and I were cleaning out cages this evening and taking some pics. We noticed this terrible lump on the bottom of our seemingly fine gray banded king. :( :(

I am totally worried right now although he seems fine. The lump is soft. Not hard. He hasn't been eating, but none of my adult males have on any consistant basis since it got cooler. So I haven't worried. I didn't notice this lump until today so I have no idea how long its been there, but we did handle him in the past week and didn't notice it then.

What do you think? I am definitly make a vet appoitment.

<img src="http://8snakes.myftp.org/marisa/Snakes/malegb/malelump.jpg">

<img src="http://8snakes.myftp.org/marisa/Snakes/malegb/malelump2.jpg">

Any ideas guys? I am really worried about it.

[dave68]

Marisa
I have two possible ideas, if your snake had been eating well and regularily before brumation then it could simply be a fatty deposit or much worse and less likely hopefully, and I'll start by saying that I don't know much about cryptosporidium(sp?) other than the basics, but a friend of mine had a Cal King that had stopped eating and shortly afterwards developed 1 lump initially and then more after that and ended up getting really skinny and not making it and in that case it turned out being diagnosed as criptosporidiosis- so not to bring any bad or negative thoughts your way but just thought I would give my 2 cents, and maybe give you an idea to read up about or check with the vet to rule out. Anyways, good luck and hope all turns out well for you and your snake.

Dave

[marisa]

I would think fatty deposit too but its sooo close up to the head...not down on the lower body where you normally see those fat lumps....

It's about three-four inches from the head.

:(

Marisa

[Andy_G]

If it's only 3-4 inches from the head I would THINK it's fairly safe to rule out crypto because it sounds like the bump is before the stomach area. No idea what it could be though. Make sure you post what it is after the vet visit! :)

[marisa]

Andy_G-

Yes the lump is well before the stomach area. It is in the general area of the right lung/top of lung when look at this graphic:

http://herpetology.com/anatomy.html

The swelling is also not above, or on the sides very much, mostly on the bottom like shown in the photo.

Marisa

[enso]

Hoping the best, but assuming the worst, some kind of tumor. Hope I'm wrong. Best of luck.

Jason

[zero&stich]

No idea what it could be.
But best of luck!!

[vanderkm]

Any results of testing on this guy yet?? A lump that comes up swiftly and mostly expands the body cavity downward rather than seeming to be a lump just under the skin is quite suggestive of an abscess. In reptiles these localized infections are often quite solid material rather than the pure liquid pus that occurs with abscesses in mammals, but they feel soft and compressible.

With the location, I would wonder about whether the esophagus was pentrated by something - I worry about the sharp shards of aspen shavings getting swollowed.

The other possibility I would consider is a hematoma (blood clot) secondary to trauma or possibly a bleed from a tumor. It should be possible to make a diagnosis with a fine needle aspriate of the mass. While abscess material may be too thick to aspirate, if the mass is hemorrhage or a tumor, they should be able to distinguish these by examining a smear of the aspirated material.

Good luck getting this sorted out - would hate to see a major problem in one of these guys.

mary v.

[marisa]

Hi guys!

Unfortuantly I am sitting here until Friday. I have a vet I *really* like and trust, but had to make a appoitment for Friday. I wasn't even able to get them on the phone until yesterday. And I believe he is closed on Friday but making an exception for us.

I wasn't sure it was an emergency so I didn't go anywhere else. I hope I haven't made a big mistake doing this, but I have a vet I trust and I don't want to go to another unless it's a real emergency.

The snake is active, drinking, climbing. Everything normally. The lump is difficult to see now as it's not so large as it was, but it's still there slightly. I guess thats good? I hope its not bad. :(

He is not housed on aspen but I am not sure what he was housed on before as I haven't had them all that long. (A couple months now I guess?) I house them on paper towel. I have raised his hot spot a couple degrees as well just in case. He seems happy as a clam. I just checked on him and he came out to greet me with some tongue flicks.

Do you guys think I have made a mistake by waiting until Friday? If anything happens to this guy I can't describe how upset I will be, but I also have had terrible experiences with some vets around here and I am worried about that. Do you think Friday with my vet is good enough? I am all worried now :(

I do know another vet in the city I have gone too a couple times, she is my iguanas vet but I wasn't happy with her snake know how, but I can take him there if need be at any time I am sure.

What do you guys think?

Marisa

[dave68]

I'm sure waiting till Friday will be fine, especially since he is acting so normal, full of energy, drinking etc... good luck Marisa

Dave

[Katt]

I don't want to post this and be a nay sayer, but I have to say it, just in case.

Almost two years ago, my first and favourite snake passed away. His name was Seth. I still have Seth today, in my freezer, and to this day, I do shed tears for him. Seth was an eastern milksnake bought in a pet store. Friendliest most docile snake ever. Big mouth on a tiny head, no neck and the dullest drabest colour imaginable. He had a stumpy tail and no clue as to his age.

I took a trip to Bamfield and on my return I inspected my animals to see if they were ok.

I noticed a lump on Seth. It wasn't too big, but big enough for me to think, not a fatty deposit.

I got the VISA out, skipped school and took Seth to a vet. The vet said it was an abcess, which I agreed with, as it was getting bigger. Seth didn't stop eating,but he regurged anything I got down him. He lost very little weight and was bright eyed up until the end.

So the vet put him on no less than four different medications! Poor Seth. The vet said, if the meds didn't work, we would operate.

Seth lasted less than a week. I went into his container, early afternoon, thought he was dead, but he wasn't. I went to the WSPCR meeting that evening fully expecting Seth would be gone by the time we got back. He was.

Only three deaths have ever broken my heart as much as Seth's passing caused me. I spent hours wailing that evening and many days in mourning. I'm even crying now as I type.

We opened Seth up as I would not stand to have the lump in him any more. It was a cheesy grey abcess right around his testes, quite hard. The abcess had blocked his intestines and he had an impaction no less than three inches.

I don't know what caused it. Seth had always been on newspaper or paper towel.

The vet had him on Baytril, Flagyl, Sulpha-something,and Panacur. We did have a fecal done and all that was found were the usual pinworms and coccidia.

I hope your story does not turn out like mine Marisa. I only wish we had removed the lump and not waited on meds. Perhaps Seth would be alive now. I would give my entire collection up, just to have Seth back again.

[vanderkm]

Sorry to hear about your guy Katt - tough to lose any animal that is special to you. It is certainly true that these guys can mask their illness and show little loss of body condition until it is too late.

Marisa - if your guy has not regurged (suspect that mass would cause some obstruction to the esophagus and he might be prone to regurg if he did feed) and the mass has gotten smaller, I suspect you are better off to wait for a vet you trust than to go to someone else. It might be possible for you to get the appointment sooner if they knew you were very concerned - could maybe even get you on a list in case someone cancels an appointment.

Should mention that an abscess could arise from things other than a foreign body or penetrating wound - some bacterial infections can produce abscesses -- aspen is just what comes to mind first for me because we have housed snakes on it and fed on it. I do think your idea of raising his temp to support immune function is a good one.

Just my opinions though - best of luck and keep us up to date,

mary v.

[marisa]

No regurg thankfully. He has eaten quite a few times here since I got him in fact. All successful feedings, and his fecal matter looks like all my other colubrids. He stopped eating around the same time my male cal king did, so I haven't thought twice about it until now really.

I definitly said to our vet that cancelations are something we would like to know about in case we get a sooner appointment. Luckily I am off work this week so if something happens, we can take it.

Right now he is cruising around his tank since I disturbed him earlier. I am happy he seems normal but at the same time it makes the whole situation weird.

Katt thats a terrible story. :( :( I am praying it won't turn out the same in this case.

Marisa

[Andy_G]

Any possibility of impaction Marisa?

[marisa]

Hmmm maybe. But what I wonder is this...if it's impaction or another parasite, why so high up on his body? It's odd to me as you usually see a lump or bloated area near the middle or back of the body. Maybe thats just uneducated guessing, (i am sure it is) but its making the wait for the vet harder for sure!

So it also makes it more disturbing that it's so high up. *sigh*

Marisa

[Davey213]

What did the vet say Marissa?

[Davey213]

Nevermind... just stumbled onto the link with the answer to my question.

[sapphire_moon]

I must be blind because I didn't see the link ;) lol,

how is your snake?

[marisa]

Hi,

Here is a link to a new thread with updates.

http://www.ssnakess.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=60646

Marisa