Variety Pack of Boas.

[BOAS_N_PYTHONS]

Hi there folks:

The whole thread went off topic, so no point in asking.

Tony

[MouseKilla]

I can't believe I get to say that I hate you before Ken does. lol!

You've covered nearly everything but pattern mutations, how long till we see a motley or something from you?

[BOAS_N_PYTHONS]

nevermind

[TheRedDragon]

Gah! Tony! WHY! WHY! *sob*

Gorgeous animal of course. :)

[Manitoban Herps]

Jeez, super nice boas AGAIN! LOL

[MouseKilla]

Originally posted by BOAS_N_PYTHONS


2005 has some more surprizes, I like to show a little like the 1930 stripe shows...some but never all. But some really nice and amazing boas will be seen 2005 from us indeed. And yes the patterns are some of them ;)

Did you say stripe shows? Is that a hint or a spelling mistake? LOL

[JAdkins2451]

Out of all the picks Ive seen on this site and others. I would have to say you have the best looking boas. Awsome pics

[Bartman]

You're making me very jelous! :D

Sweet collection buddy. I especially love the salmon, bottom right (which is?) and the first one on the left.

[msubigdawg]

What type is the third one down on the right? That color pink is amazing.

[David Kwok]

thats such an ugly snow.... send it to me

[honduranfreekk]

Now Tony I know I said I only wanted a snow right? lol

Well now the wife wants a Coral lol.Is there still room on my list?? ;)

Veryyyyyyyy sweet looking Boas man.

Kelvin@Brigitte

[BOAS_N_PYTHONS]

nevermind

[beardieguy]

where did you get the leustistic with the blue eyes?

[Simon]

Wow
Tony!!
That is an awesome collection!!

I love that coral albino and the sunglow you have there!!

Awesome!!!

[BoidKeeper]

What are you planning to use the snow for?
Cheers,
Trevor

[BOAS_N_PYTHONS]

nevermind

[BoidKeeper]

Snows have been around since the late 90's and I've never heard of anyone using one in a project. I always thought that snows didn't breed. Hasn't it been tried?
Cheers,
Trevor

[BoAddict]

why wouldnt snow's breed?
Mike

[BOAS_N_PYTHONS]

nevermind

[BoidKeeper]

Do you know of any of the big breeders out that have sucessfully bred a snow to a snow or a snow to something else. I don't see why they wouldn't breed but I've just never heard of it being done before. I'm sure it must have been done but if so by who?
Cheers,
Trevor

[BOAS_N_PYTHONS]

nevermind

[BoidKeeper]

I did miss that part. Well so much for that theory eh.lol
Cheers,
Trevor

[BoidKeeper]

I'm curious who did produce yours using a snow?
Cheers,
Trevor

[chappy]

Nice boas Tony! Just wondering what the triple het is het for???

[BOAS_N_PYTHONS]

nevermind

[BigDan]

Hey Tony

The triple het you are talking about is the one pictured bottom left I assume.

If she is that is not a hypo. Maybe it is not a good pic. Did you mean double het for snow?

Dan

[BoidKeeper]

Dan have you produced any snows yet?
Cheers,
Trevor

[WALTER]

Why is there no updated pic for the snow. It's the same one all the time?
There are always ohter pics that are newer but not for the snow. He must be getting big by now?

[BOAS_N_PYTHONS]

nevermind

[BoidKeeper]

So some of those pics posted by you with the BNP copy right on them weren't taken by you? I thought it was odd that one of the pics had a US $20 in it. Which of those snakes did you take pics off, or which do you actually have at your place right now?
You still never answered about who it was that produced your snow using a snow.
Cheers,
Trevor

[BOAS_N_PYTHONS]

nevermind

[Ron]

Tony,

I agree it is your right to not share any information regarding the purchase of the snakes but what kind of breeder of high end animals wouldn't want to get the credit they deserve for producing these animals.

One other thing, you probably shouldn't put YOUR copyright on a photo that does not belong to you.

[BOAS_N_PYTHONS]

nevermind

[BoAddict]

Tony you answer some questions in such detail then others your so vague. the questions where you are so vague in makes me think your lieing.

we only ask these questions because you put them out there by posting in an open forum.

so are you still moving to the states? and when is your web site gonna be up? im anxious to see it.
if your not moving to the states then thats cool but i hadnt heard or read that you werent.

Mike

[BoidKeeper]

It was a simple question Tony, are you using someone else's pics to show us animals you don't actually have yet? I didn't say there was anything wrong with it, just curious that's all. Most people however, would not think it was a very reputable practice. I never allow someone to post my pics even if they bought the animal in them. Nor do I post pics of an animal I don’t actually have in my collection. And the reason I want to know who produced your snow or any snow for that matter using a snow is because I don’t believe it’s been done and until someone shows me two snows or a snow and het copulating and a snow giving birth I’ll continue to believe it hasn’t been done. I hope someone can prove me wrong but so far no one has.
Trevor

[beardieguy]

hope this comes out for you Tony

[Matt_K]

Originally posted by Ron
One other thing, you probably shouldn't put YOUR copyright on a photo that does not belong to you.

Tony, How long have you had your snow now?? Also, do you have any pics of your Motleys??? I remember a few months back, your signature stated that you had 1.1 Snows and 1.1 Motleys, can we see some pics of the female Snow and both of the Motleys???

-Matt

[Matt_K]

Originally posted by beardieguy
hope this comes out for you Tony

Beardieguy, you should really give credit to the person who's pics you're using.. Also, that's not a Boa..

[BOAS_N_PYTHONS]

nevermind

[beardieguy]

I was going to give credit to Ralph Davis when my beardie started regurging. Sorry for running out.

Ps sorry for the mixup.

[BoAddict]

the difference in my ghost and dh ghost pics tony is that i never once said i took them nor did i say that i had them yet i said i had bought them and GETTING them and that i was waiting on cities.

i dont mislead in my posts like you do.

question how do you know that i dont have my ghost and dbl het ghosts now?
how do you know that there is no delivery set up yet?

your explanation about the motley and 1.1 snow is interesting tony as its not exactly the story you gave me b4 but oh well, i know how you like to lead but not give everything so maybe it was coz i just dont understand your cryptic talk.


Mike

ps i have nothing against you tony and like you said we dont see eye to eye on alot of things , but if you would just say things the way they are there wouldnt be a problem. but when you only say half of the story or what ever it leaves the rest to our imagination or how ever we for see it.

[BoidKeeper]

No one is being uncivil Tony. You asked what morphs were in Canada and then posted pics of snakes you didn't take of snakes you don't even have yet. These are the facts as you stated them. No one accused you of anything or was hostile towards you. As far as I see it we're just talking about boas and breeders. No need to be guarded or offended. You post pics every other day and when people start trying to have a conversation with you about where your stock comes from you start getting all guarded. Why is that Tony? If that is your real name.lol(jk)
Trevor

[ROMEO]

Tony, that is a gorgeous collection. Don' t let the haters bring you down. Beautiful boas as always at times brings jealousy. But I think you are ok with that and don' t let it bother you, which is good most get angry and get rude. Your an ok guy in my book, I hope I can get some boas from you in March.

[ROMEO]

Sorry for a double post but I read this whole thread and see Tony has a right to give and not give information. Its an open forum but he does have his rights as well. Why anyone can state and demand anything of him or any member on there animals seems somewhat godly that they feel they can and should have the answers. People relax I check alot of Tonys post of his and others and he does not pry (sp) like you guys are doing here. Like he said it was a post on canadas morphs in boas, he showed his and know one else did, yet people start pushing there noses into his life, did I miss the main post information because you guys are off topic. Sorry to sound like I am in favor of Tony but I don' t like seeing people get picked on when they don' t do it you.

Tony, brush these guys/gals off they can' t be nice they don' t offer anything positive.

[Rob McRobbie]

If you notice I rarily free advertise a breeder or supplier.


but I also don' t do much free advertising. It' s like when you buy a car with the dealership logo on it, your not getting anything for advertising.

So let me get this straight Tony... You feel that mentioning the breeder that produced your animals that you are showing off on the forums is free advertising for the breeder and you refuse to do that?? I call it commending the breeder for all his/her hard work and for the opportinity to accuire some of the animals that were produced..

When I sold those emeralds to you a while back, I wasn't expecting that you would do frickin backflips and advertise the snot out of them, saying that they came from me and so on and so forth.. But it's kinda nice to be acknowledged for producing the animals.. I think everyone enjoys hearing this. I am not that private that I would be insulted if my name was mentioned... come on..... It seems to me that by mentioning the breeder, that takes you out of the limelight?? Is that correct?


Every second day when you catch me on MSN you're are sending me links to posts you have made on ssnakess. On top of that, you are asking me to reply to these threads and if I haven't, you are asking me why I haven't?? Sorry Tony, I just don't have a lot of time to start praising you and replying to every thread I see. Others might, but I don't.



Rob

[Matt_K]

Originally posted by ROMEO
Tony, that is a gorgeous collection. Don' t let the haters bring you down.

Who's hating on him?? No one is, I don't think anyone here has said that Tony has anything BUT a wonderful collection of Boa's.. I think we all agree on that. He is being asked questions that people are interested to know the answers to, is that not what this forum is for?? As soon as you post pictures of what you own, your collection has gone public. If you didn't want people to know what you own, you wouldn't be showing pictures of it..

[Matt_K]

Just a side note.. Tony or 'Romeo'.. Can you guys explain why you're posting from the same IP and host??? Meanwhile, 'Romeo' claims to be from the US.. I'd be interested in the answer.. If you guys don't want to answer me here, you can PM or Email me..

-Matt

[BigDan]

Trevor

I have not produced snows yet, I do have some Double het for snow due in March. Male coral phase bred to and anery female.

I have a 2.5 year old pair of double het for snow from Pete Kahl and a 4 year old female snow. Female DH is too young for this season but I have introduced my DH male with the snow and have observed some copulation but no ovulation as of yet.

I do know a breeder by the name of Muenster (not sure of his first name) tried breeding a snow to a snow but nothing came of it. I would probably stay away from doing that as well since most snows are a bit fragile already.

As for snows producing I do know males have successfully bred but I have yet to hear of a snow female producing a successful litter. I have many friends in the U.S. that breed boas talk to them on a regular basis. As well I have asked that question to all of the major breeders down there. Not one knows of an instance where a snow female produced. Again there may be one down there but it has yet to be substantiated.

I would be very leary of beleiving without seeing pics of the birth or the female with her babies. If the breeder has actually accomplished this they would take pics. I know when I have baby boas born I take a million pics and have this info on hand for all my litters. Most people do the same.

As for the rest of this I would say if you do not have the animals then be upfront about it. I have animals coming in the New Year which I did post one pic of but I also said that these were on their way. Once I receive them I will post other pics.

Like Rob said one thing I do also beleive in is give people credit for the animals they produce it is only fair. You may have purchased the animal but you did not produce it and that is where the accomplishment lies. Many of Tony's boas were produced by me, salmon, anery, hoggs and the corals were purchased through me and the fact he did not mention me is fine but the reason why kind of does bother me.

Most importantly you have to actually produce some animals before you start worrying about competition and free advertising for others.

I think Tony is a good person and and is genuinely excited about his animals but he may have jumped the gun a bit. If you post a pic now or 6 months from now when the animal arrives it really does not make a difference in the long run. But it may stop people from questioning you on what is actually going on.

Basically I think honesty is the best policy because no matter who you are if you spread the bullshit too thick it alsways catches up with you. Lest we forget MR. C.M. who thought it would never catch up with him but it did.

Dan

[MouseKilla]

Yeah we're gonna need pictures of both of you as well as the names of your breeders. LOL

[BoidKeeper]

Every second day when you catch me on MSN you're are sending me links to posts you have made on ssnakess.
I thought I was the only one he did that too.

Just a side note.. Tony or 'Romeo'.. Can you guys explain why you're posting from the same IP and host???
I thought it was strange that this Romeo guy just joined and with in minutes was defending someone who wasn't even being attacked.

Dan,
Thanks for sharing that info.
Cheers,
Trevor

[BOAS_N_PYTHONS]

nevermind

[Matt_K]

Originally posted by BOAS_N_PYTHONS
MATT:

Your question is simple, because I do not like to get negative on people or start wars on forums I actually planned on not replying. A friend of mine from school is visiting Manitoba and is at my place, he saw the post and was doing what friends do and supported me. So I decided now to reply and get Romeo off before things get rude. If you read more into it so be it, this is the reason take it for what it is.

Your Friend huh?? At your house now???

Originally posted by ROMEO
Damn I can' t believe I missed this post Tony. I loved the other one and this is just amazing as well. Do you have a farm of snakes? A friend of my told me you are passionate about boas but you have pythons too, do you run a zoo or all this is yours?

Originally posted by ROMEO
Hello, I am Romeo and I am a snakeholic.

I finally have internet and a few friends to me about this forum, looks good, I hope I can learn and help people as well.

MERRY CHRISTMAS

Sorry, but it just seems too fishy to me.. :rolleyes:

[CHRISANDBOIDS14]

Yeah, lol, I agree with Matt's last point there. Tony, I have nothing against you, you seem to be a great guy and I have alwasy seen you the same way: Nice guy on the forum that will probably become a well known boa breeder. Mostly because, as you state, you are never "pushy" on anyone on this forum. You've always been a nice guy but this post seems to have brought up a different angle. I also understand why you wouldnt want to give the name of the person you bought your snakes from, but I dont see it as free advertising, because now people know that not only does the breeder have the ability to produce those animals, but YOU DO TOO. Since yours are decendants, why would anyone see your animals as anything less? Sure, names have something to do with it, but, hey, people know you have animals from the big-name person. And nobody starts out as a "big-name".

Yeah, I find this Romeo or whatever it is friend story kind of fishy aswell, but,

MATT:

LOL I must be dumb or something, but I cannot find those two posts you quoted?!?!?! If you could point me to them! Thanks.

C.

[BoAddict]

i dont recall bashing dan as you say, i do recall you making him to be like a god and i just said i didnt think so. but for the sake of argument if i did then so be it im big enough to say my opinion has changed as i do know more about him now. my opinions change about people all the time doesnt mean anything everybody has opinions but not everybodies opinions are the same

Mike

i hope you read my pm to you and it may explain a bit more

[Matt_K]

Originally posted by CHRISANDBOIDS14
MATT:

LOL I must be dumb or something, but I cannot find those two posts you quoted?!?!?! If you could point me to them! Thanks.

C.

http://www.ssnakess.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=442336#post442336

http://www.ssnakess.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=442298#post442298

There ya go :D

[CHRISANDBOIDS14]

OTHER THREADS! Lol. Why didnt I think about that!?!?!?! I was just looking through this one. Thanks Matt. I didnt think you were goofing!

Edit: LMAO! I just looked at everything and thought about it and its quite odd as a matter of a fact.

C.

[Ron]

Originally posted by BOAS_N_PYTHONS
Also the statement of copyrighting a photo from another camera even though the image (animal) in it is mine, paid for by myself. I feel I should clarify why I put my name on it. Already mentioned is because I own the rights to those images.

So when you buy an animal you think that gives you the rights to all the pics ever taken as well?

BigDan just used a pic of Medusa, was it wrong for him to post it?

My girlfriend photographs animals as a side job, mostly dogs. If one of her clients decided to use a picture of one of THEIR animals that she took in an advertisement, she would be well within her rights to sue them unless she signed a release. If you plan to use others pics without giving them credit I hope you get a signed release or you could find yourself in quite a bit of trouble.

[Scales Zoo]

Well, gosh, what a thread.

At least I can say "I told you so" Tony. I warned you that people were starting to call b.s. - but your level of posting just increased after my polite warning.

Just so you know, our 6' + female het for snow.... we may be parting with - so don't get upset when we don't send it out to you to breed to your male snow boa which you told me was at your "facility".

The one story of yours that bothered me the most was the surinams, guyanas and brazillians that yoiu produced, but did not post pictures of. I beleive you said the buyer of the whole litters paid for the pictures, all the snakes, and your silence. That right there is fishy enough in my opininion.

I'll shut up now.

Ryan

[Linds]

They are all beautiful snakes, whether in your care or in someone elses.

Originally posted by Matt_K
Sorry, but it just seems too fishy to me.. :rolleyes:

Agreed 100%.

[BOAS_N_PYTHONS]

nevermind

[BOAS_N_PYTHONS]

nevermind

[Matt_K]

Originally posted by BOAS_N_PYTHONS
MATT K:

I am wondering why a moderator takes the time to free himself from mod work to being a non-mod. What I mean is I always thought of mods as referees, firemen to put out fires on people. I am surprized you decide when to be a mod and when not to. Here you decide hey lets take Tony down and if enough people can start then I can join the pack. Good to see you take so much interest in me and felt your mod responsibility was on holiday today. :) Hope this shows how flexiable you are on the responsibility.

TONY:

Just calling a spade a spade.. Oh, and incase you didn't notice.. Making a new username is against the sites TOS, so therefore, I WAS BEING A MOD.. But, im sure you realize that, right???? Have anymore usernames you wanna bring out and agree with yourself???

LINDS:

I have no real issue with you, but being a mod and repeating I agree with you I wonder how much fuel Matt forgot to bring to the fire that you need to join the pecking order.

Im sure everyone on this site can and HAS formed their own opinion Tony.. They don't need anyone to point things out for them, maybe you should give the members a bit more credit..

Judging by your apology, it seems that you honestly feel that you have done nothing wrong in this thread. Im sorry that you feel that way, but maybe you should go back and read everything that people have replied with, you'd be suprised what you'll learn about yourself..

LINDS:

I have no real issue with you

I see you didn't start your paragraph to me that way, so I assume that you have an issue with me?? I'd love to know what it is, maybe you could send me an email and let me know, or perhaps have Romeo do it..

I find it really funny that you're apologizing for things that make absolutly no sense, and while doing so, calling everyone 'Hyenas'. Way to earn that Respect Tony.

Anyway, I'm done with this thread now, everyone has brought up very valid points, even for being Hyenas.. I just wish you could see your fault in all of this.

Time to turn that Mod switch back on.. :rolleyes:

-Matt

[BoidKeeper]

Too many lies to keep track of. Like Dan said it catches up to you in the end. Why try to be something you're not. Who are you trying to impress. Stop with the BS be yourself and everything will be fine. The more you try and talk yourself out of your lies the worse it looks.
Trevor

[Ron]

Originally posted by BOAS_N_PYTHONS

RON:

If you read my reply to your concern on the rights to the photos you will see I have the concent, but this is another example of joining the hyena pack without the facts.



I don't think I was being rude or disrespectful in either of my prior post on this thread.

I find you're being rude and disrespectful when you post and copyright a picture that is not yours. Consent does not give you the right to claim a photo as your own. Maybe you should learn the facts about copyrighting before you go and shoot your mouth off.

Then give some crap about the Motley in your collection that you don't own the right to post photos of; I thought you always claim the rights to the pics of animals you purchase.

Maybe if you start another thread about boa morphs in Canada you should ensure the ones you post are actually IN Canada. Or maybe you can start a thread about what you would buy if you had a million dollars then you wouldn't be caught in any lies. BTW now I am being rude and disrespectful.

See ya and I definitely wouldn't wanna be ya.

Ron

[Linds]

We are here to moderate the site, as well as partake as members, and as Matt said, creating alternate accounts like that isn't permitted on the site. There aren't really any flames as such to extinguish (as of yet), the members are simply voicing their concerns and questions, as they have a right to. Most everyone has asked legitimate questions and remained within the TOS to this point, and hopefully it stays that way. When a business person puts themself in the limelight, then the public has every right to ask questions they may have. If you don't wanna be placed in the spotlight, then don't put yourself there ;)

[chappy]

Originally posted by BOAS_N_PYTHONS
MATT K:

I am wondering why a moderator takes the time to free himself from mod work to being a non-mod. What I mean is I always thought of mods as referees, firemen to put out fires on people. I am surprized you decide when to be a mod and when not to. Here you decide hey lets take Tony down and if enough people can start then I can join the pack. Good to see you take so much interest in me and felt your mod responsibility was on holiday today. :) Hope this shows how flexiable you are on the responsibility.


It's funny how everyone is always so quick to jump down Matt's throat for being involved. Are we as mods expected to just sit back and not get involved? Are we supposed to just be here to babysit everyone? No, we are here for the same reason as everyone else. It seems a lot of people forget that we are all here for the animals and because we all share a common interest. We aren't here to fight and argue, sure everyone is entitled to their own opinions and everyone isn't expected to agree with eachother and stuff like this is going to happen no matter what.

I'll tell you all right now this place wouldn't be the same without Matt or any of the other mods for that matter. Always trying to please everyone and seems like there is no appreciation.


I hope everyone is having a great Christmas and I hope there are going to be lots of pictures posted.

Nick

[BOAS_N_PYTHONS]

nevermind

[Manitoban Herps]

This is a really sad post......:( Who care's if the animals are really his (which I beleive they are)there nice pics and all you have to do is say, ahhh nice snakes Tony...

[bistrobob85]

I really dont mind too. Tony is a great forum member and doesn't deserve to be pointed that way. I dont really understand why herp lovers enjoy hitting each others on forums, thats a very silly game.

[CHRISANDBOIDS14]

I do agree with you both that Tony has always been a great member and has never been pushy/nosy/anything bad. Always respectful, but I think there are some facts you guys are missing.

C.

[David Kwok]

I have thought long and hard about whether or not to get involved in this thread. A voice in my head told me to that I had to say something.

For those who have known me on this site for the last few years know that I am no stranger to drama. But this petty piece really takes the cake.

Let me start out by giving you a bit about my personal background. I grew up in the streets of east Vancouver. Where the gap between the haves and have nots is staggering. While on a trip to L.A. I was asked where I was from, to my surprise when I told them Vancouver, their eyes lit up in awww. They told asked me ¡§isn¡¦t that town completely run by gangsters and wannabe gangsters?¡¨ blah blah blah¡K. Anyway¡K. After some careful though it made me think back on some of the things I¡¦ve witnessed in the past and how money and politics bring out the worst in ppl. Through those years I have seen things that make me ashamed to be from East Van and in some cases ashamed to be human. I am not easily moved by the negative actions of people b/c I have been around it my whole life, but for some reason this thread bothered me quiet a bit.

Let me say this, Tony is a great guy and there is really no reason to dummy him here that I can see. Did he post your address online? Did he make fun of your mother? Did he slap your mother? Did he rip anyone of you off? Did he back stab you? Did he say anything defamatory to your character or tell ppl that you sold him snakes that were unhealthy and covered in mites? Did he say you had IBD in your collection? Did he steal your wife? Was he your childhood friend that shot you in the back and put you in a wheel chair? Does he deserve to be crucified at a time when Christ our savior was supposed to be born and when the world is trying, oh so hard, to be in a spirit of harmony and giving?

I will tell you what he did do: he has took the time and energy to make instructions on how to properly pack and ship snakes (with detailed photos), has generously provided husbandry and breeding information, basically spilled his guts to everyone and really asked nothing in return.

I will admit he probably got caught up in the popularity contest that comes with this industry and maybe posted some pics of snakes that are HIS but aren¡¦t in Canada as of yet and some pics he did not take. LOL! Lets curb stomp him for that! Get a grip ppl. I can¡¦t believe that some ppl are such hypocrites and double standard mofos. Who hold the standard so high for others and let their own personal integrity slide.

Okay I am done, sorry that I am a lazy *** typer. This post was not intended to rip into anyone, just to say my part that we really shouldn¡¦t be sweating the small stuff. ¡§Life goes on¡¨ Tonyƒº.

Dave

P.S. A quote that I read somewhere "what you are shouts so loudly in my ears that I cannot hear what you say or do¨

<img src="http://www.ssnakess.com/photopost/data/500/202evanlogo2withwatermark.jpg">

[BOAS_N_PYTHONS]

nevermind

[Manitoban Herps]

And that was 2 hours out of his day...... :D

I am still with you all the way buddy :)

[Scales Zoo]

For the love of god man!

I'm already regretting typing anything more to this stupid thread.

The whole reason I ever set foot in this thread, was that I hoped you'd see my post being from a "friend / respected hobbiest" and would actually think about your actions, quit lying, and quit making new ssnakess.com usernames to come to your aid.

You lied to me personally on msn, you lied to everyone on here. When that didn't work, you tried more lies to cover old lies, and then California Romeo came to your aid. Then you appologized for a bunch of things that had nothing to do with the actual issues at hand. When that didn't work, you start throwing mud at other respected breeders hoping to take the bad light off of you, and put some on to them.

You should have quit on that last apology post.

You claim jealousy causes people to try to add truth to your stories that could use some? This thread will be a good example of why we will get rid of all of our high end boas. Breeding corn snakes was much more fun!

Ryan

[Vanan]

Hahaha! All I can say is, to all the big losers, sitting on their asses the whole day and typing out stupid replies, GET A LIFE! It's just a dude who does things a li different. No criminal. Dare you to look at yourselves and say you haven't acted just as childish and just as idiotic at time. Don't wanna mention names but a few of you are guilty of ssnakess stupidity just as Tony has, IMO.

And now by saying this, I have officially joined the ranks of Ssnakess Losers Club. Thank you everyone. *exit soapbox*

[David Kwok]

LOL Ryan and Vanin.... welcome to the losers club!

[Matt_K]

MATT K:

I decided to read each one of the replies as you stated, more than once to just confirm I did not miss anything. Matt yes I claimed the phrase hyena pack and you mention way to get respect.

You called the members 'Hyenas' on more than one thread.. Either way, I was stating that name calling, which by the way, is against the sites TOS will NOT earn you respect from members..

Matt and I have some issue nothing big, not really important on my end it is because I am respectful on the forum and when he replies to my posts or PMs or email I feel his attitude is a bit harsh, maybe that is how he is, maybe that is his character, maybe the responsibility of being a mod is stressing.

I find it funny that you can bring this up in a public forum, but not have the balls to bring it up to me personally and talk to me about it before going public.. What's even better, the one time you were going to say something, you didn't even do it PERSONALLY.. (You know what im talking about). When have you PM'd me??? You've Emailed me a couple times asking for clarification on the Classified Rules, are you saying I didn't answer you?? I answered your questions in a very detailed and civil manner.. No need to make it seem like it's something it's not.

What can I say but great job at two-facing me, almost a pro at it, I have to give you props man, great job. I had the strangest feeling how our last few months on MSN were not the old Trevor that I guess I trusted. The drama you told me about MATT K and a few others was just crazy.

Funny how yet again my name get's drawn into your thread.

Again Tony, Im inviting you to speak with me personally about it, if you want to phone me, you can do that, i'll pm you my number, if you want to email me, you can do that, just click on the 'email' icon or send me a PM.. Rather then beat around the bush, take up your issues with me personally, this time don't have someone else do it for you..

As far as me being 'harsh' on the forums, I understand that some people see me as that way, the funny thing about it is this.. If you ask anyone on this site that knows me PERSONALLY, they'll tell you that 99.9% of the time when im being 'harsh', im JOKING. Again, it all boils down to how you interpret someone's font..

When that didn't work, you tried more lies to cover old lies, and then California Romeo came to your aid. Then you appologized for a bunch of things that had nothing to do with the actual issues at hand. When that didn't work, you start throwing mud at other respected breeders hoping to take the bad light off of you, and put some on to them.

So I'm not the only one who's noticed this huh???

-Matt

[marisa]

Nothing else matters except the TOS rule break by having two accounts and even posting to yourself. You cannot avoid that by telling mods they are not doing their jobs, and you cannot avoid that by apologizing. It has been shown here you have two accounts, period.

In my mind who cares about the photos, but I most certaintly will not hold back from the members when I find out that one person is really TWO people. Matt didn't either, and I would have done the same.

And Vanan I see your point but suggesting we have a "LOSERS CLUB" is as bad as what you are talking about, not to mention totally wrong considering the real issue is one person having two accounts. Who really cares about his photos or whos snakes they are.....But if being two people at the same time doesn't bother you, great. But it bothers me, and many other members here. And Linds, Matt and Chappy are in perfect order in calling him on it/agreeing it's not needed here.

Marisa

[Linds]

we both feel honesty is important and we both feel we are a lot alike so if people feel they needed to make an attack on me on an open form and its seems to be ok by the mods, like Linds says you put your self out there then we are the same again Dan. This is no insult to you or anyone I just needed to show people that if I am so important to single out and yet others aren' t I am calling this double standard and the forum is blind to it.

Honesty IS important, you couldn't be more right. This is generally what a lot of the posts are expressing concern about. They aren't violating the TOS by questioning and such. It's a shady industry and herpers like to know who they can trust :) However, you have violated the TOS twice in this thread already, by name calling and creating a false account (that isn't exactly honest, and likely fueled several more posters). People are asking questions, which is permitted. It isn't a pack attack as you say it is, just people that want answers, and the moderation team making sure the TOS is abided by.

Thank you for the well wishes, I wish I could say they came true!

[Manitoban Herps]

Fuzzy....Whay don't ya'll drop the situtation...thats the problem...does it really matter if there not his snakes yet and he puts copyright on them?

And he made 2 accounts...he is the first to do that :rolleyes:

[David Kwok]

I agree with Marisa.... rules have to be followed and having two accounts is wrong. I am sure there are lots more others out there who have more then one account though.

[BOAS_N_PYTHONS]

nevermind

[Matt_K]

Originally posted by Manitoban Herps
And he made 2 accounts...he is the first to do that :rolleyes:

I'm sure he's not the first to do that.. That's not the point though, and maybe you're missing the actual point in that.. He made a second account to agree with himself and try and put out the fire, so to speak..

[marisa]

I am sure there are lots of others with more than one account.

Unfortuantly this shows dishonesty, but it's difficult to catch the two accounters unless we see something that's fishy. But once in a blue moon one of the mods will catch it. It's happened before, it will happen again I am sure. But I see no reason not to share it with the members when and if it comes up.

At the same time there is nothing more that can really be said here. We all know the situation now and can make our own choices on what we think. I am glad things have stayed somewhat civil and hope the New Year will bring less of this.

Marisa
P.S NO one verbally attack you. Showing where you were wrong or lied is not a verbal attack, its facts, not attack. Just because it's not in a good light on your end doesn't make it wrong on our end to show the truth.

[BOAS_N_PYTHONS]

nevermind

[BOAS_N_PYTHONS]

nevermind

[marisa]

I won't be because I don't post under two accounts and bring it on myself by not being honest. ;)

Marisa

[Manitoban Herps]

I like Marisa, she is always a quiet one when it comes to this.....she shows great pics and inforamtion, a model moderator :D

[marisa]

LOL!

I need some help in the being nice department, I am trying to be more helpful and just simply post about snakes. But in this thread the level of dishonesty has gotten the better of me.

I'll go take more pics now LOL! :D Trust me, it would take all night to get even ONE that deserves to be called "great" haha

Marisa

[Manitoban Herps]

Someone had to break the tention :D

But that was serious too :)

[BOAS_N_PYTHONS]

nevermind

[Manitoban Herps]

$$$$$$$$$

[marisa]

Tony stop saying things that make no sense.

Two IP'S cannot be identical. Which means two people posting off one computer. The you say it's a friend at your house. Fine.

The this friend who is "at your house" is replying to your posts asking if you own a farm, a zoo, if you own pythons, etc. Questions a person in your home would obviously not have to ask.

Just stop Tony. You are digging your hole deep. We don't need to prove he doesn't exsist. You already have.

I didn't jump in anyones corner. If Matt hadn't posted here, I sure as heck would have the MINUTE I found out you reply to your own posts under another name. That's ALL I care about in this thread, period. Do NOT accuse me of doing nothing but following him. That's so rude I cannot even begin to tell you how much respect I have lost for you because you cannot simply come clean for being dishonest.

And what is "power of the mod" LMAO...we can delete posts, remove posts, and that's it. What power??!?!?! LOL I think I am either being left out of some super cool powers the mods have, or you are simply feeding into some odd theory that mods here have any power beyond post managment. LOL!

Yeah my head is swelling with the thought of pushing the "move" and "delete" buttons all day! Wow I am king of the woooorld!!! :D

Marisa

[Asian Jon]

Originally posted by BOAS_N_PYTHONS
All he has is the statement 2 names 1 IP 1 host, whatever that all means....

That's not all he has...

[BigDan]

Hey Tony

I had nothing against you Tony and as far as I was concerned I beleived you had or were getting all the animals you were posting, I thought you may have been a little premature in posting pics and putting people on lists for babies that was all. But I guess since we are back to finger pointing and smoke and mirrors here it goes.

First off Dave did not breed the Surinams he sold me nor did he have anything to do with breeding them at my home. Though there were a few times I heard noises from the basement only to see a pimped out Honda prelude with neon lights everywhere speed away in the wee hours of the morning. Dave you sneeky little devil you is there something you are not telling me. But if someone asked me where I bought the parents, and many did I told them. I also put in a few jabs as too how much I paid for them. You know I am just kidding Dave (not really LOL)

In regards to the corals you would have never got them if it was not for me because most likely MR Dwayne Dutka would have taken your money and you would have ended up with a couple of phone books in your box or he would have them shipped in a box full of holes and no heat packs via Greyhound or something. You would have ended up with a couple of frozen coralsicles instead of healthy animals. I held the animals for you after you picked them out, I shipped them for you properly, I made sure they were healthy and feeding etc etc.
He did **** all except take your money and basically washed his hands of everything. I did not receive a cent from him for doing that!!!
Basically I had your back and would have kicked in his door to get your animals for you if he had tried to rip you off. Mr. Dwayne was famous for various similar situations.

I indeed do have that male Surinam I recevied from you and he did not father the 2 litters Dave's male did. Why would I give you credit. For what? He has made some attempts at breeding but never sealed the deal. A monkey can feed a boa and keep its cage clean, I am actually thinking about getting one just to help out from time to time.

As to the young female I beleive when she gave birth I let people know exactly what happened and how it happened. She was housed with a male for a 2 week period during my move and became gravid. After posting pics of the birth I even mentioned what happened and said that it was not something I wanted to happen. I was very worried about her as she did not feed at all during being gravid. I have always said one should wait until they are older, but **** happens.

Every animal you recevied from me was in perfect health and has done great for you I have gone out of my way to ship other peoples animals for you along with mine on more than one occasion just to save you money. I snapped billions of pics for you of the animals when you needed every angle while others told you to pound sand and could not be bothered to take that many pics.

Basically what I am getting at Tony is that I went over and above what anyone else would have done for you. Yet you would refuse to tell someone you bought an animal from me just in case that someone might contact me over you 3 years down the road. That is what bothered me as I did consider us friends. I am sure if things went badly eveyone would have known.

My reference to C.M. was that he was famous for not telling the truth. Even in deals that went well you never got the whole story. I am sure most of Canada knows the little story about us but there are also many more stories that remain untold. All of them deal with his bullshit. I really do not care if people beleive me over him all I know is the other people directly involved in that matter know exactly what happened. I also am not the one who sold my whole collection just for shits and giggles. Makes you wonder hey Tony.

What I was getting at with my take on the whole thing is why even put yourself into that position where people are questioning you.

You have posted pics of animals you did not have (no biggie alot of people do it), you have said you produced a number of litters of boas last year yet no pics. Since you are such a shutterbug that really suprises me as the litter you did have you posted pics with hourly updates. Why even say you produced animals if you did not. Will it give you more credibility? You have posted the pic of the snow and people asked you for updated pics and nothing. You realize if you posted one updated pic of that animal it would have shut everyone up and they would all be eating crow right now. Yet no pic, that animal is at your home from what yuo told me and that is why I told you to post a pic as it would shut everyone up.

What people are trying to say is why make false claims when you do not have to. No one has ever said anything about the your collection other than it was awesome.

I have helped you many times in terms of shipping methods, where to buy animals, (given you the truth about some of the big names out there as many of them leave alot to be desired in terms of customer service) Answered your many questions on genetics, breeding, feeding blah blah blah.

But still apparently to get the heat off yourself I was offered up as a possible distraction. You basically turned everything aorund and put it back on me. I am not the one who is all James Bond with what I have in my collection and what I produced. All my pics are in my gallery for all to see and many people have been to my home and viewed my animals in person. Not to mention 7 or 8 shows I did this year where I had alot of them on display for all to see.


So with that said I think you are kind of full of **** and have been playing some little game for what ever reason just to make yourself look like something you are not. That is all I can think by what has gone on here.

It just does not make sense to me.

I am sorry for being hard on you but you put yourself in this position not me. If we can get past this and kiss and make up fine, but if not then I guess thats that and we will stay broken up.

Ba humbug

Dan the grinch.

I need a triple Jack and eggnog after writing this essay.

[BOAS_N_PYTHONS]

nevermind

[Matt_K]

I'll do my best to reply to all of this as best I can..

Originally posted by BOAS_N_PYTHONS
MODS:

Come on grow up already, give it a rest - do you really think I am going to sit by and take this. Funny thing is its takes all of you to verbally attack me, how weak is that. Those elementary years you all grew up in left you all some scars I see. Just give a call to all those bullies that tortured you all and meet them behind the BFI bin behind the school where your tortured lives left those negative memories. :)

First of all Tony, Let me assure you.. None of the MOD's 'teamed' up on anyone here.. And quite honestly, I was suprised that other MOD's decided to voice their opinions on the issue, As all too often we're judged when we do so.

I'd really appreciate it if you pointed out to us where we 'verbally attacked' you. I've read each post by the mod's twice now, and have yet to see where you were attacked verbally by any of the moderators.

Speaking of verbal attacks.. That's very mature of you saying that the Moderators were 'tortured' by bullies in school.. Especially coming from someone who doesn't know one bit about any of the Mod's who posted in this thread.. Very big of you Tony..

End of story to that, if you gotta bring it up again or have another mod do it how weak are you all, that the only entertainment in your lives is behind a computer at my expense.

That coming from the person who MSN's and Emails everyone he knows, EVERY thread that he creates and replies to on the forums.. Oh, and this isn't heresay Tony, this is straight from your 'friends'..

The PM thing you request I find useless, because you love the copy / paste thing and I would not be surprized it would wind up here, so I just went to that point by going public, if you see more into that, that is another issue of being paranoid and not reading what I actually write here.

I've always stood by my word that whatever is said in Private, Stays in Private.. Unless I find that it's an issue that the other Moderators need to deal with or be made aware of. If you decided to take your 'issues' up with me in private, they would have remained there, but you've decided to do otherwise, this is fine by me also..

I apologized already, I even made my previous reply to you rather nuetral and you come back for another fight, why I see no reason. At least I have to defend myself because you all love cuting a wound open when its trying to heel.

Again Tony, I do not know what you're reading, but I was NOT and have NOT been fighting with you.. I was curious as to the where abouts of your second snow and the Motley's that you had in your signature.. I would have loved to see pictures of them, I asked if you had pictures of them and you took offence to that.. Unfortunatly, that's your problem and this is what you have turned it into..


I pointed out alot in my last reply, guess I rubbed people wrong way, but who cares I can' t be the only one being respectful when your all trying so hard to be children on a war path.

Sorry Tony, You can't rub me any way, Im sorry to dissapoint you.. Myself as well as a few others are still trying to figure out what exactly it was that you apoligized for..

Do me a favor MATT K erase the other name if its so much of an issue just erase it, it has not been online since do that for me erase it.

Unfortunatly the Moderators don't have the ability to 'erase' names, all we can do is Ban it..

So 2 names are on one IP, I gave you my answer you don' t believe yet you can prove it otherwise all you can say is 2 names same IP.

Yes, I can prove that they're on the same IP and Host, but I won't post your personal information on a public forum, That's not my style.. However, I will ask you this.. Do all your friends makes their screen names in bold, much like yourself??? Oh, and correct me if I'm wrong Tony, but don't you have a snake named Romeo????????

get real MATT K the moment you brought it up is cause your mod responsibility was over ridden by human emotion, and being a mod and carrying the title has fooled you that you can tell the difference.

Tell the difference of what exactly??? Human emotion?? Hmmm, Last I checked, I asked either you or Romeo to answer me as to why they were on the same IP and Romeo was claiming to know nothing about you, but you said he was at your house.. Well, If I had a friend at my house create a name and post from it, I'd expect them to not play stupid about my collection of animals.. I still don't see where 'human emotion' came into play..

Lots of people state you sound harsh and many I bet told you to consider retiring as a mod. I don' t really care either way. Maybe I don' t understand your way of being funny or your jokes, but maybe you don' t understand people beyond the computer screen.

I have been confronted on this issue by a whopping TWO people.. And after speaking with both of them on the situation, I think they walked away realizing that chances are I AM joking when they think im being harsh. As far as retiring, I didn't know volunteering my time to a friend, was a career..

You ask to PM or phone you why, why, why.......do we need to go see a couples therapist, come on MATT K let it go, I am trying why can' t you.

I've answered this already, but since you asked it twice, i'll answer it twice.. I just figured it would have been a little more personal to deal with our 'issues' privatly, rather than on the forums..

I think i've just about covered everything now.. If I haven't I apologize. Im sure as soon as I hit 'submit reply' there's going to be a whole new page to go over and read. Hopefully nothing i'll have to reply to..

-Matt

[Linds]

I would also just like to add, that the moderation team is simply doing their job. We haven't gotten more involved than we have needed to be, much less 'ganged up' or 'verbally abused' anyone. There is absolutely no need to be going off on us making false accusations and assumptions, as Matt said, you know nothing of us personally, and in agreement with Marisa, we don't have all this power. In fact, it's a truly thankless job. Turning your sights on us because you are finding yourself in an undesirable situation will only worsen the situation.

Take care.

[Nett]

Tony ...

I have read this whole thread and to be honest its about time someone called BS .......I dont know you from a hole in the ground but it seems to me ( and I may be wrong) but every time I see you post pics of your animals and post in general (what is it 1500 or so as you have proudly stated ).....You seem to think this should give you respect and some sort of even playing field ....... I am sorry but spending your time posting away on a forum things you have taken out of books or from breeders doesnt count as your knowledge....... and wont earn you any respect ........You say that you do unto others as they do unto you ....... Well you sure have shown that with your last few posts...... real classy ........

My problem with you and all this is the fact that all you had to say in your posts is " look at what I am getting" not "look at what I got " ....... And are you really taking names of people who want animals from you that you havent even gotten into Canada yet let alone bred????????? Come on .........I dont even take names until I have gravid animals or eggs out and I have been doing this for 15 yrs ......... You say its pride in your collection but is it really ??????? Some of these animals from what I hear you dont even have in your collection ...So how is this pride in your collection ?????? It seems to me thats its more in the pride of how much money you have or it could be the same ol thing ....... Trying to make yourself out to be something your not ..........Many people do this ....And yes in the start I fell into the pit of " look at me " but no more ....I let my animals and my expierence speak for itself ........ It takes years to make a reputation for yourself and you have really started off on the wrong foot by taking the wrong road with slamming some of the best breeders in the west ........ This has not only slapped them in the face but has made their breeder friends feel the same ....... not only have you not given credit where credit is more then due you have gone out of your way not to ......... Rob is one of the very few breeders in Canada that has bred Emeralds on a steady basis ........Which by the way is NOT easy ...... Yet you wont give him credit for breeding stunning Emeralds that you had to have .... Dan has one of the biggest if not the biggest collection of beautiful boas out there .....His work and commiment to his collection has made it easier for hobbiest such as yourself have some morphs that in most liklyhood you would not have .... Most people would be proud to have their stock in their collection yet you seem to want everyone to think that you have done this on your own .......You have not said you bred them but you are only one hit of the key buttons from that in my opinion....... Giving credit to breeders is not expected from us and as you have stated some dont even want it .......But after years of breeding its nice to see that the people you sell healthy anaimals to are appreciative of all the hard work you have put into those animals.......we dont think of it as free advertising we look at it as atleast this person thinks we are making this industry a better place by selling healthy CBB animals instead peddling WC ones.........

I really dont think you are a bad person I just think you got caught up in the "look at me" BS ....... I feel that you have made this bed and it was only a matter of time before you were caught ....... So now you have been caught in several lies and BS yet you still defend it and then rip into others who caught you instead of doing the mature thing and own up to your mistakes and try to change ........ The only way you are going to save face if you can after the last few posts is to try and mend bridges instead of tearing them further apart with your assults .........Take it from a person who has been here for 15 plus years and will be here for 15 plus more ........ There is no need to lie and twist the truth most will except you and what you have maybe even give you a lil respect when you earn it if your straight up with them and try not to make yourself out to be something your not .........

[dave68]

Wow, where am I??? This is almost better than my daytime soaps....Allison

[Manitoban Herps]

What I don't understand how every knows he is lieing? How do you know he is?

FYI - I have seen him tell plenty of people who he has bought his boas of of before.

[BOAS_N_PYTHONS]

nevermind

[marisa]

"What she meant was these boa morphs will show competitors something and will start some issues of jealousy, and she was right, you can brush it off if you want but take out emotion from your post and it won' t be as long as you wrote it or anyone else who thought to make me look bad."

That sealed the deal for me. You think this is jealousy? HAHAHA

I am so done here. I'll be back if things get totally out of hand, otherwise, he just gave me all the explantion I need. :( :|

Marisa

[Manitoban Herps]

http://www.ssnakess.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=59575

Looks like he mentioned your name there and he never had too.

[CHRISANDBOIDS14]

Tony:

Ok, I appologize for "bringin up the issues again"......."bashing you on the head when you get up" or whatever, but I dont think I did that. I wasnt even bringing back up an issue. I was directing my comment, obviously, to the two people who posted before me, in your favor, who I believed had missed some of the facts in this thread. Now, dont go accusing me of bringing up issues again, because I am simply trying to clarrify the situation between you and I.

As I stated in my previous reply to this thread, I commend you for ALWAYS being very respectful on this forum, and having very good "etiquete"(Sp?) in your past 1500 or whatever posts.

IMO, I have been very respectful to people, and of my past 1300 or so post, have RARELY thrown out my negative opinion about something(unless ofcourse, the care or something similar of an animal). I have, maybe TWICE, of my 1300 posts, made a personal movement not in favor of someone. Ok, im not positive on any of the numbers I've thrown out, but Tony, im sure some would agree that I have be a good member of this site. Its been.......a little over a year now.

Tony, there are some statements/facts about things you have done that I do dissagree on, but I was not trying to fuel the fire for the rest of the members. Maybe I did it in an improper fashion, but I just wanted to tell some people that there were things that I(and seemingly many others) found a little......*off*.....about your actions, that I thought they should know about.

Again Tony, I NEVER meant to fuel the fire, and did not mean to throw out a feeling of personal attack on you.

Tony, here is a little thing about me:

All through Elementry, and through Junior High(I am currently in grade 9), I have been bullied like you wouldnt believe. Im not a tiny wussy guy or anything either. I dont go down without a fight, and my attitude toward things in life has changed. I understand fully how you feel, and dissagree with the way some of the other members have responded/spoken to you in this thread. Whenever I see someone being left out/beaten on, I try to include them. At school, a couple weeks ago, I was walking around with a couple buddy's of mine in grade 8. A kid in my class took one of their hats, my buddy managed to get it back, but then some other kids came and they took that hat again. I decided to get it, but they kept it away from me. I grabbed the kids arm, pulled it toward me, grabed that hat, gave to to my friend and shoved the guy away. He got annoyned and came back at me and grabbed my shirt when I dodged him, and I took his arm and hit him and he let go. The other kids around were also yelling out a bunch of BS at the same time. I told the kid to F-off, and told everyone to quit being Jack-asses. Naturally, they started making fun of me for having friends in a lower grade.

Now I realize there is a good chance here one of the members might get on my case for showing some support/respect for you Tony, but I dont care, I will be thoughtful(but maybe not always in the right way, or directly) of a person in "trouble"(cant think of the right word its 1AM im tired,lol). If it means me looking like a loser/having problems, O WELL.

Anyways, hope that clears some up Tony.

I also have a note to the mods:

I realize there is a chance you will get on my case about this but:

During one of Tony's posts, he mentioned putting up a scoreboard to see how many times you could mention one of his TOS violations again. I *think*(think being the keyword there) I counted it twice before Tony replied to the subject again. Can that Issue not be dropped and settle in private? Its solved now, Tony admitted to it, but lets drop it? We know he has made a mistake, he has appologized and as he has asked already, can we drop the issue now?

Mods, im sorry I have brought it up again, but I just want to end it, as I see no more need for anyone to post about it. Please, if you have a concern about what I have said, feel free to PM me or just reply to the thread, as(no-one take offense to this, but the gist/actions display this) everyone im sure would love to hear more argueing(sp?).

Everyone:

OK, so its obvious, Tony has made mistakes, he has admitted to them, and appologized for them, and tried to clarrify them. Whats left to dig about?

Tony:

I do feel that you have made mistakes in some of your actions, but so does everyone. I hope you dont take offense to this.

I do feel sorry that your holiday may quite possibly be ruined, but I wish that the rest of your holidays may be joyful!

I would like to continue a conversation with you VIA email/PM.

Good night everyone, and HAPPY HOLIDAYS!

I hope I didnt offend anyone with my post, as none was never intented, I just want to put facts into the open. Also, nowhere do I state that I have never made a mistake, I know I have, and I will think twice now, but everyone makes mistakes.

Thank-you very much for reading my LONG reply.

Again, Happy Holidays!

C.

[Ron]

Originally posted by Manitoban Herps
http://www.ssnakess.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=59575

Looks like he mentioned your name there and he never had too.

Yeah, only to help sell the animal.

[Matt_K]

Originally posted by CHRISANDBOIDS14

Mods, im sorry I have brought it up again, but I just want to end it, as I see no more need for anyone to post about it. Please, if you have a concern about what I have said, feel free to PM me or just reply to the thread, as(no-one take offense to this, but the gist/actions display this) everyone im sure would love to hear more argueing(sp?).

Im pretty sure it was only mentioned those couple of times by the mods to point out that what he did was wrong... I'd hate to have to count how many times Tony brought it up.. Also, I originally asked Tony/Romeo to email or PM me with their answer, Tony decided to do it publicly..

-Matt

[CHRISANDBOIDS14]

Yes, I do remember that Matt. I understand. However, I dont see why it had to be pointed out AGAIN....TWICE.......LOL.

Thanks. Cheers Matt!

Tony: Good on ya not to drink, I never intend on drinking. Egg nog is great!

C.

[CHRISANDBOIDS14]

Sorry for the double post, but...

Everyone:

Here is a quick question. There was the big issue about copyright things about the pictures Tony posted. How many of you can honestly say that they have a signed release saying you can use the picture in your Avatar? I know I sure dont. Ok, mine is on the selections page for ssnakess.com, which obviously means go ahead and use it, but I never got a signed release saying I could use it meaning ssnakess.com could sue me. (PLEASE DONT JEFF!!!!, LOL)

Thanks.

C.

[Ron]

Originally posted by CHRISANDBOIDS14
Sorry for the double post, but...

Everyone:

Here is a quick question. There was the big issue about copyright things about the pictures Tony posted. How many of you can honestly say that they have a signed release saying you can use the picture in your Avatar? I know I sure dont. Ok, mine is on the selections page for ssnakess.com, which obviously means go ahead and use it, but I never got a signed release saying I could use it meaning ssnakess.com could sue me. (PLEASE DONT JEFF!!!!, LOL)

Thanks.

C.

Using a photo without personal gain would only require consent; my problem is putting a copyright on a photo that does not belong to you (as was done in this case). When you copyright something you claim ownership to it; just because you own the animal in the pic doesn't mean you own the picture of that animal.

BTW, I contacted NERD before I used one of their pics as my avatar.

[BOAS_N_PYTHONS]

nevermind

[BOAS_N_PYTHONS]

nevermind

[Matt_K]

It's clearly obvious that you DIDNT read ANY Of what I said.. Well, rather you didn't pay attention to it.. Rather just took what you wanted out of what I said..

As I CLEARLY said: Oh, and correct me if I'm wrong Tony, but don't you have a snake named Romeo????????

Yet, you reply like this???

please check before you start something with false comments.

I was asking you a question Tony, those funny little characters at the end of the QUESTION are infact, question marks..

-Matt

[BOAS_N_PYTHONS]

nevermind

[BOAS_N_PYTHONS]

nevermind

[BigDan]

In regards to Rich Ihle or Pete Kahl, or whoever the reason there names are there is because I BOUGHT the animal directly from them and THEY actually produced the animal or I am differentiating it from one strain to another. IE Kahl or Sharp strain. I am giving them the recognition.

As for you taking money from me I guess if I was all about that why would I have sold any animals at all to anyone in Canada.

To be totally truthfull I gave you all info I had or had learned or had tried so you could be successful at it in the future. All I know you know now whether right or wrong or whatever.

If I was trying to keep you down why would I tell you everything I could possibly think of in order to make sure your animals did well. Why would we talk about up and coming projects down the road (not mine) but ones to get into. Why would I share all that info with you? Many breeders do not share this info.

Lest you forget Tony I work as well and make a very comfortable living and I have never had anyone give me a cent towards my hobby. What I have I have earned on my own and I would hope that many other people in Canada can do the same.

There is plenty of room for everyone to breed and sell animals down the road in Canada as the prices come down the demand will go up. New people will get into it and so on. So you or I or anyone else can sell their animals and make a few bucks and have some fun at it. I beleive we had that conversation over the phone last week where I told you that worrying about competition is a waste of time or maybe you forgot.

As for prices here it all depends on what and how many are produced, how they look etc. Why do Dumerils sell for $600 plus a pair in Canada while they sell for less than some corn snakes in the U.S.

Why do womas go for $4000 a pair in Canada and sell for like $1200 a pair in The U.S.

Why are Argentines $750 a pair in Canada and they can't give them away in the States.

The list is endless!!

Avoid the point everyone was trying to make at all costs Tony and try to twist this in every way possible.

Do you ever wonder why C.M. sent you the female salmon with no $$$ up front? Maybe it was becasue he was desperate to make a sale and no one was buying his animals. Why do you think he sent so many animals to me to sell? If I was out to get him why would I sell his animals for him without taking a cent, because he was my friend Tony or so I thought at the time!!

Or did he send you the salmon because I vouched for you and reassured him that he would get the money without having to worry.

Wouldn't it have made sense to tell him you were shady so I could get the animal for myself since I am all about the money and keeping you down. Maybe I should have bought the animal from under you as he did offer it to me first but I knew you were interested so I passed on it.

Ahh the conspiracy theories you got to love em.

As for the lecture on drinking save it as I rarely if ever drink but crap like this is driving me to it.

What is your excuse for the hallucinations you are experiencing at this moment.

Get some rest

Dan

[BOAS_N_PYTHONS]

nevermind

[BoidKeeper]

Two faced? Tony I'm sorry you thought we were life long friends because you added me to your msn list. Just because you send someone links everyday to your post of the same animals over and over again does not make them your life long friend. If you saw any change in my attitude towards you it was because I was getting sick of you contacting me every day like a kid looking for help and attention.
And as for you trying to stire the pot between Matt and I, well all I can say is this; there is nothing I ever said to you about Matt or this site I haven't already said to Matt himself. Matt and I have had it out a few times and I've told him what I thought of him in the past and him me and we're cool. Matt knows me a hell of a lot better then you do buddy and one thing he does know about me is that I'm nothing like you. If he wants to know where my head is at he knows that if he ask I'll tell him the truth.
One more thing, there is nothing I said here that I wouldn't have said to you on MSN so don't make it sound like I went behind your back. I asked if you were posting pics of snake that you didn't take. I asked you if you were putting your copy right on pics you didn't take and I asked you if you were posting pics of animals you didn't actually have in your home even though you said you did. Like I said I would have asked you that stuff on MSN but as soon as I started asking you about the pic of the snow boa you turned deffensive. Now how exactly did I stab you in the back?
I think it is you that loves the drama Tony. I think you are one of those people that lives for the attention they get on line. The sad part is you just pushed it a bit too far and your lies started to trip over each other. If you would just be yourself and not try to pretend you were something you aren't none of this would have happened. I asked some question you didn't want to answer because the answers were going to make you look bad and instead of just answering it and letting it end there you kept spinning tighter and tighter and with ever post more people were jumping on board.
Tony what do I have against you? Nothing, you've never wronged me. So don't think I was out to get you or planed this. You posted snakes and I asked you questions about thoes snakes. The rest was your doing, not mine.
Trevor

[BOAS_N_PYTHONS]

nevermind

[BoAddict]

hey Tony how's the poker coming along?

[Matt_K]

Originally posted by BOAS_N_PYTHONS
MATT K:

I understand very well, but why ask without some research first.
Bringing it up another fashion as I stated, have your fun Matt.
You can' t let it go, can' t be mature and see to end it already.

I went nuetral to you offered an olive leave in polite manner and you still keep going.

It' s just weak and your proving it every time you mention it. I at least need to clarify it but you bring it out so I have I asked to stop but you won' t.

Tony Pharosx

Okay Tony, Since you obviously can't get it through your head and you can't let it go i'll make it as clear as possible this one last time.. I'm really not sure how you think I was bringing it up in another fashion, my reply was simply pointing out that:

I WAS ASKING YOU A QUESTION.. I ASKED YOU TO CORRECT ME IF I WAS WRONG!!! I WAS NOT ASSUMING ANYTHING...

I don't see why you needed to reply to me twice asking me to drop the issue...

Consider it dropped now, Im honestly done with this whole issue. I accept your 'olive leaf'...

-Matt

[BoidKeeper]

I know why you the Trevor attitude came at me, and in short its because of Ken. Sorry Trevor I was not much help but you wanted me to do something I felt was wrong. You replied to this:
Tony now you really have hit a new low. This is an out right lie. I never ever asked you to take my side in anything against anyone. Man oh man I wish I had saved all my conversations with you. If you did I wish you would post them so people could see what I said to you about my deal with Ken. You are so full of ****. My deal with Ken is over and done. It was you that contacted me when you saw my BOI post and asked me about it. Not that it was any of your dam business anyway. All I told you was that I never should have delt with him and that I wouldn't deal with him again.
What you tried to do here is an out right lie and you hit a new low. You really are showing your true colours buddy. You've gotten so pathetic that you are trying to twist anything anyone has ever said to you to try and make yourself not look like a complet idiot. You just keep digging deeper and deeper. You could have resolved this a long time ago.
You had no buisness mentioning Ken's name or my deal with him what so ever. It doesn't concer you at all. Ken has made an attempt to resolve it and I have no ill feelings towards him and it's over. It's none of your dam business and you would be the last person I would ever ask to take up for me, not that I would ever need someone to take my side in anything because I don't have any problems with anyone nor do they with me.
First you tried to say I was bad mouthing MattK to you and when that backfired you made up some lies about a deal between Ken and I. The truth is Tony you have nothing bad to say about me because you don't know anything about me. We never delt on anything and I've only had one deal I wasn't happy with. There is nothing you can say about me so you've resoted to telling lies. You are pathetic Tony. I won't stoop to your level Tony and try to say things about you. I don't have to try and sling mud at you inorder to make myself look good or you bad because those who know me know I'm honest and you make yourself look bad all on your own.
Trevor

[BigDan]

I think you have proven what you are actually about in all this Bullshit.

You are the one who started talking about crap that did not matter in your threads to cover what actually was happening.

Actually Tony I respect alot of my customers out there and consider them friends and have bent over backwards to help them. I might add especially in your case to help you out. I give everyone the benefit of the doubt and have always treated people with respect. Unlike you I think respect is earned and not just expected due to how many posts you have made and I do not make stuff up so people will respect me.

Maybe I should have copyrighted my ideas before telling you, you did not even know what a ghost or triple het was until I told you. You would not have even received many of the animals you have if I had not stepped in as people could not stand dealing with you as a customer. I always said Tony is not such a bad guy and stood up for you. You were like the sound of fingernails on a chalkboard and treated many people like they were crooks before you even knew them and played a bigshot in your business dealings.

You are a clean cut professional looking guy but it seems you have many issues in terms of what truth and honesty actually is, so I guess you really cannot judge a book by its cover.

Instead of being a man and admitting you might have stretched the truth a bit you have gone after everyone here. In my case it has really pissed me off as no one out there has helped you more than I have.

I hope you produce 100's of boas this year Tony like you did last year but alas there will be no pictures due to copyrights and product infringment, tidal waves, snow storms, locusts.

Good luck


Dan

[Nett]

Tony .........I could answer all the BS and dancing you just did in your reply to me ........ But since the judgement issue was the most repetitive Ill answer that .......

My judgement didnt come from anyone .....No rumors....No BS ....It came way before any of this .....Way before anyone thought negatively of you ........ I came to the conclusion all on my own from your own posts and the arrogant way you write ......plain and simple ..........I have voiced my opinion of you to several others in the past several months and was always told I was wrong "hes a good guy " and so on .....Its only been in the last couple months that people started to see what I saw long ago .........But for me 1st impressions are very important and good or bad I stand by my thoughts and feelings on people unless they do something to prove me wrong .........

You still seem to be defending your mistakes and actions instead of owning up to them and thats a shame ..............Still on the wrong path I see ......... Accusing people of being jealous of your collection .....Wow.........What arrogance ........ Did anything I said hit home with you or are you just to caught up in defence mode that you cant see how bad you are digging your grave ......... Maybe instead of writing novels in your defence you should be taking the time to look at what you have caused with your pride and take a step back .......

[dave68]

breaking the T.O.S. is reason to ban the man so what the %$@^ is taking so long, quite frankly i'm rather sickened by the insane ramblings. He hasn't even acknowledged the fact that he has broken the rules. Save us all from more idiocy and just get rid of the problem. I really don't think it's going to get any better, in fact each time he posts he seems to be digging a much deeper hole for himself. I don't know you at all Tony, all I'm saying is you are a member that has broken the T.O.S. and there really should be no exceptions. I have nothing to say about the original post except "Nice Very Nice" Sorry to see a regular sink so far so fast. Good luck in the future Tony, but I think you should really just take a break from ssnakess for a while and let the air settle for your own sake.

Dave

[Ron]

OMG, really Tony you must get to the point instead of spewing out all of this written diarrhea

Originally posted by BOAS_N_PYTHONS
RON:

I like how you reverse what I proved others do but its ok,because I can' t do it right. Yet you did no research it takes up time so why bother right?

Don' t bother replying unless you can prove you did your research and put your friendships aside to be constructive, then maybe but don' t bother get a good night' s rest.



Whenever people post pics for the first time from a new breeder they give props to the breeder, which most people do. You, unlike most post pics whenever your snakes move, eat, crap or has a different light on them. Quite honestly most of us don't care to see a thousand pics of the same damn snake.

Since you mentioned Dan I'll use him as an example; he usually posts ~3 pics of a snake through their stay at his place. Everytime a pic is posted he will mention the original breeder, or breeder of the parents if his pic is of a baby, even if it is to show off the growth of the snake. You on the other hand find it necessary to post a pic of every non significant event. I think it's good practice to ALWAYS give credit where credit is due not only when it is benefiical to you.

BTW, Dan doesn't fear you; you give yourself way too much credit.

Originally posted by BOAS_N_PYTHONS


RON:

I think and know I explaining the copyright issue. But 1 day maybe someone will sell you animals from your own photos that were doctored up and are still in your collection. Maybe you don' t understand but if you look up all my photos they all carry my name to weed out these scammers, in the end a little photoshop can remove my name ot even better crop a photo and cut the name out, but I can still tell if its my animals some is stealing and ruining my name. In the end I can challenge them and prove myself after but showing the larger image and the one with my name. By doing this I feel I am helping the community single out the con artists in our hobby. Maybe you just don' t understand maybe I did not explain it better but as you see to explain it best I must write out these long replys. Because you do not know me and I do not think you ever met me or chatted with me, judging me is lame. You and others think gossip is the truth and only way to true information. I can ' t change your mind because that would mean I am trying to make you do something you don' t believe in. But if you wish to have an open mind - weed through the gossip and maybe do some reasearch.

:) In a joking manner (key word - joking) you state you got promission for the avatar your using, great did you get a license release, was the lawyer charging a decent price. If you get my drift I can read more into something that is nothing I only wished you tried that before judging me. :) hope the smiley faces show its a joke.



Let's look at the facts:

You put YOUR copyright on photos that YOU didn't take.

I don't think this is even allowed if they sign a release as you are claiming you took the photo. They should have their own copyright on the photo.

As I said before when not using a photo for personal gain you only need consent. Like the consent I got from Kara at NERD when I wanted to use one of their pics for my avatar.

I realize there is a definite need to copyright photos so people don't steal them as you did.

BTW, you need to put a date (year is fine) on the copyright to validate it since a copyright is good for 50 years from when the photo was taken.

I didn't need gossip or BS to form my opinion of you, just the fact you steal pics was enough for me. If I wanted BS I would have contacted you directly.

Just to clarify cause you never seem to understand I will summarize the post in one line

YOU CAN'T COPYRIGHT A PHOTO YOU DIDN'T TAKE.

[marisa]

Actually Dave, in most cases one or even TWO TOS breakings does not result in a ban.

Three is the limit and that has been told to everyone many times.

Marisa

[V.hb]

Soooooooooo........


When's the NHL season going to begin?????

(tries to change the topic)..... sorry..........heheh

[Matt_K]

Originally posted by V.hb
Soooooooooo........


When's the NHL season going to begin?????

(tries to change the topic)..... sorry..........heheh

LMFAO! Not soon enough!! World Juniors in just over an hour!! Go Canada Go!!!

[BOAS_N_PYTHONS]

nevermind

[Rob McRobbie]

Tony,

What are you apologizing for? Can you please be specific?


Rob

[Manitoban Herps]

yes this can only go on for so long, what are you giuys fighting for...your all not going to get anything in this.

[David Kwok]

K everyone, I am overwhelmed with the amount of replies and arguements in this thread.... I haven't read the posts since my last reply, if you had anythig directed at me please PM me from now on.

Happy New Year!

Dave

[marisa]

You can't really read any of the posts now because Tony has decided to delete his parts of this conversation.

:|

Marisa

[Matt_K]

Originally posted by BOAS_N_PYTHONS
nevermind

LOL

[Nett]

WOW.............Now thats truely sad ......... Why edit your posts ?????????? Its not just going to go away by doing that .....It only makes you look even worse ..... :(

[BoidKeeper]

Don't apologize to me, email Ken and tell him the truth about the lies you tried to spread here. I was fine with everthing you said and did up until that point buddy but you outright told a bold face lie. I had nothing bad to say about you Tony but now I can tell anyone who asks you're a bold face lyer.
Trevor

[CHRISANDBOIDS14]

Yeah...(the deletion of Tony's Posts)....made the rest of the thread kind of confusing.

C.

[Manitoban Herps]

Originally posted by BoidKeeper
email Ken and tell him the truth about the lies you tried to spread here.

How do you know he is lieing?..There people assuming things again.

[BoidKeeper]

Before you stick your nose into someones business buddy know what your talking about. The lies I'm talking about involve me. He said I said things to him about Ken on MSN that aren't true. Get your facts straight before you assume you know what your talking about pal. If you don't have all the facts mind your business.
Trevor

[Manitoban Herps]

Mein, some people need to take a breath and hold it.

[BoidKeeper]

This thread was bad enough Kevin with out you trying to get involved with out knowing all the facts.
Next time get them straight or stay out of it.
Trevor

[Manitoban Herps]

I came here to stand up for a friend......

[V.hb]

Kumbaya my lord, Kumbaya........ Kumbaya........

[CHRISANDBOIDS14]

LMAO........So just cause of that you come without that facts? Nothing against Tony here.

This situation is like you trying to charge someone for slashing your car tires when there is video of someone else doing it! Do you get the Idea?

Tony: Hope your having a good holiday!

Boidkeeper: I like you new avatar!

C.

[Manitoban Herps]

Whats the point of anyone replying here, what satisfaction do you receive?

[Matt_K]

Originally posted by Manitoban Herps
Whats the point of anyone replying here, what satisfaction do you receive?

Then why do you keep adding your two cents?? Just leave it alone now, there's no need to keep beating a dead horse..

-Matt

[foman]

So what did everyone do with there Christmas holiday's?:rolleyes:

[Manitoban Herps]

Originally posted by Matt_K
no need to keep beating a dead horse.. -Matt

Where do you come up with all of these sayings ?..:p

[BeginnerBoa]

You know, I read along as this whole thing was written, so I got to hear everything before it was deleted. I just wanted to say that the most disturbing thing I read was that Dan is no God! I mean, you guys were just kidding right?! ;)

I wanted to wait until the heat had settled a little before adding my .02. I am new to the site and herps so I know my opinion is meaningless, so without taking any sides I just wanted to thank Tony for the information that he has given me in the past about boas. I thought is was helpful and I appreciated it.

On the same note I want to thank the mods who keep this site going which allow us ignorant NuBies to be able to ask questions to some of the biggest names out there. I've chatted with Nick and Matt in the old chat room and they were also very helpful. It just seems that this is just like religion and politics. People are very protective of their own ideas, and that perfectly fine.

Also, I learned a lot about proper etique with purchasing snakes and posting about them, so I do think that some good has come of all this.

In the end I hope that everyone had a great holiday season!

Scott

[Manitoban Herps]

True, this thread did teach you what and what not to do to keep you out of trouble :)

[BoidKeeper]

The moral of this thread is be yourself and be honest. Everyone has the right to privacy but when lies are obivouse it gets you in the end everytime. No one in this hobby needs to try and impress people or be something they are not. Those who do always fall in the end. I for one am more impressed by someone who produces one clutch of normal corns and shows them off and shares the infor about how they did it then someone who has more money than brains and buys expensive morphs. Someone who produces an albino boa will earn way more of my respect then someone who buys one.
So if any good can come from this nightmare I hope it's that honesty is the best policy.
Cheers,
Trevor

[Manitoban Herps]

I would much rather breed normal corns then to buy an albino boa, it feels so good to have something hatch :)

[BOAS_N_PYTHONS]

Moral to this thread / post:

1. Is if you give your opinion be it positive or negative expect it clashes with other people' s.

2. If you decide to challenge back you must expect they will as well, and for the most part bring emotion than facts.

3. That if you post and don' t put a billion smiley faces in that post / reply people start to assume just about anything.

4. While there are assuming all this they begin to decode your single sentence or paragraphs to piece together an opinion without ever knowing you.

5. While posting expect that equality is only a dream, because while you make an innocent post and have a long record and history of being positive that none of this matters, if people already judged you through rumours. The basic method of knowing people in the real life goes out the door on the internet.

6. Last but not least and this is why this thread went as far as it did "off topic issues" no matter what they are, they had no business being said since the posts original theme was to see photos from people, not get into political gibberish. The people here that took it that far are guilty of the of all (6) above statements.

NOTE.

Any post / thread that goes past 5 pages on average are either wars or is gibberish useless information that usually goes off topic.

The key to this all is "off topic" it happens so much and that is all fine I guess but in issues of these little wars, I feel they do not belong here, not in this forum at least maybe the BOI...but having the facts instead of the rumours is still required, even the proof is still the most important part before jumping in on a war.

PERSONAL NOTE:

This thread would be so old and dead by now, if people had complied with the original post. And I am guilty of giving my opinion on page 2 or 3, it does not matter....but that is where the fire began and all the other offended, rumour opinionated, fact defective, allianated egos and just for kick (dung) distubers made this go off topic and even more a negative post.

Erasing everything I wrote before has a reason and that is this to show people how your opinions on me come from something other than actually knowing me. There is no history through out this forum or BOI of how any of you felt on me, and the ones I was chatting with on MSN said nothing before as well. I mean if you felt the way you all did about me then why continue chatting with me. Its like saying your against drugs and drug pushers yet you ask them over for dinner or a game of golf or babysit your children. Maybe I am different something does offends me has no place in my life. But I made this post about boas and it went way off topic - the plus and problably the best post ever with information :) - (better add a smiley before people see it wrong) is that people and there friends in any manner be it a polite hello to growing an empire or marrying there sister are all fooling themselves of all the issues brought up in this thread / post.

All anyone has to do is read all this from top to bottom, left to right and see that none of this had its place here, it was all premature and we are all guilty of it.

I have decided my opinion will never be open again for the gossip surgeons to create there own frankenstien.

If anyone needs to express any of this - just PM me.

Tony Pharosx

[Invictus]

I am truly saddened by this post as well.

Some may have noticed that I've become a bit scarce in recent weeks, and my reasons for that, as well as my reasons for making the decision not to breed anything at all this year, are personal, but it seems they've been brought out into the open against my wishes anyway, so maybe I'll do a wee bit of self-defense here.

It started when Trevor decided to drag my name through the mud on the BOI instead of emailing me, or as Matt put it on about page 5 of this post, going public without having the balls to confront me personally about the situation. Trevor, you knew I was in between jobs, and I told you that I would fix the situation as best I could, and I will. I haven't gone on here OR the BOI and made ANY excuses other than the fact that until Jan 15th 2005, I have no money to send you. At least I'm doing that much. I haven't gone on here and INSISTED that the GTP left my house looking AND sounding fine, even though it was the truth, did I? No. Because it sounds like excuses. Nonetheless, you and others like you who like to mudsling instead of resolve conflicts mono a mono are the reason why I'm mostly bailing out of this community until I am 100% certain that I will not make a mistake again. Yes Trevor, it was that - a mistake. you've made some too, I'm sure.

Nonetheless, thank you Trevor for sticking your neck out for me on this post. While I'm disgusted with you and your ****** attitude personally, I see you do still have some honor in you. Thanks.

Speaking of honor and sticking necks out for people, that's what I came here to do for Tony. I'm sorry Tony, I can't do that here. Erasing your own posts only made it so that I can't read your own defenses - but from what I've seen simply from what people have been quoting, you're dead wrong here man. I'm sorry, I can't defend you. I am very certain that I will still do business with you though, when and if you produce some awesome boa morphs, because unlike some arrogant people here, I don't believe that making a few mistakes should crucify someone in this hobby. I've sure made my share. I've said things to and about certain breeders that I wish I can take back, but I can't - I can only hope that when I bounce back, that I can start with a clean slate with some, if not all of them. It would just make things easier if you admitted your mistakes. I admitted mine with Trevor - you can admit yours here. It's liberating, trust me. But he's right, bringing my name into this debate was uncalled for and frankly a bit hurtful.

To the rest of the 'community':

I believe Tony to be a good person with a great passion for the hobby. I hope when the time comes, his slate can be wiped clean in peoples' eyes too, but I realize reps are earned. I mean, I've had FAR more happy customers than upset ones, but I guess the silence of the satisfied is more deadly than the loud mouths of the dissatisfied.

[BoidKeeper]

It started when Trevor decided to drag my name through the mud on the BOI
I didn't sling mud, I stated facts. I never bad mouthed you or said anything about you that wasn't true.

or as Matt put it on about page 5 of this post, going public without having the balls to confront me personally about the situation.
OH but I did email you. Let me refresh your memory,
-----Original Message-----
From: Trevor Furlotte [mailto:tfurlott@nbnet.nb.ca]
Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 2004 4:27 AM
To: Ken LePage
Subject: RE: Testimonial

Back to the vet again to get a new drug. Baytril this time. Cost another $40 on top of the first $82. Intramuscular, boy am I ever enjoying my new Chondro. You said something helping with the bill??? I'm know officially annoyed Ken. I should have stuck to my first proposal of a 30 day back up. You said you wouldn't knowingly sell a sick animal. The more I think about that statement Ken the more I come to the conclusion you can't tell when an animal is sick. That must be it because it is sick and if you knew it was sick you wouldn't have sold it. But since you did part with it in a trade not wanting to trade a sick animal you must not have been able to tell if an animal is sick. Don't forge it arrived sick, it didn't get sick after a few days or even weeks. I heard the initial pop right out of the box.
You'll get your testimonials and public praise for this deal if I get help with the vet bill like you said. I was more than generous on my end Ken, just on the value of the corns alone. Then I also covered the shipping on both animals. And for what a sick Chondro? Yes I believe the least you could do is fork up the cost of the vet bill.
Trevor

Nonetheless, you and others like you who like to mudsling instead of resolve conflicts mono a mono are the reason why I'm mostly bailing out of this community until I am 100% certain that I will not make a mistake again. Yes Trevor, it was that - a mistake. you've made some too, I'm sure.
Who have a slung mud at? I did contact you. All I ever posted were facts. At the time of the BOI posting and as of this moment I don't believe you'll come up with the $82 so that is why I went to the BOI and that is why I'm replying to you here. On the BOI I even took the trouble to give some praise on the deal that you didn't screw up. Why would I have done that if I was out to ruin you or sling mud? I just want my money and to forget the name Ken Lepage. As for your comments about Tony. You're right, reps are earned so to Tony I'll say again, be yourself and be honest. And to you Invictus I'll say stop selling other peoples garbage and you'll have all happy customers.
Trevor

[Invictus]

Believe or disbelieve and forget whatever name you want, Trevor. I think that like some others here, you suffer from delusions of significance. Try not to get a fly up the nose you have poised so high in the air.

[marisa]

Those are really harsh words. Also Trevor has presented his side as professionally as one can hope.

Aside from that this is NOT the BOI, and you guys can just as easily hash this issue out in the BOI. Tony has deleted his posts, so I see nothing to talk about here. We are all stuck up anyways so it shouldn't bother anyone here.

Thread closed.

Marisa