Pic. Any comments appreciated.

[bailey]

This is Earnhardt basking in his tank. The main point of this pic is to show the enclosure so I can get everyone's opinions. Thanks for your replies!




http://www.ssnakess.com/photopost/data/500/3792000_0292-med.JPG

[beanersmysav]

looks good just wondering where the water is

[ChristinaM]

I can't tell from the pic but, a couple thoughts:
1. How close is the UV to his basking spot? About 6" is preferable
:)

2. Looks great. Nice, simple, easy to clean..... good job.

[chas*e]

Easy too clean and lots of room to play

[bailey]

The basking spot is about 7-8 inches away. I can raise the basking spot if necessary. I don't use a water bowl. I mist him. The water bowl was raising humidity. This is my first crack at keeping lizards but so far I think it's going well. Thanks for all comments!!

[Slannesh]

About half the caresheets i've read say it's unnecessary to give Beardies water 24/7. Misting or offering water once a week or so seems to be the norm on those sheets... the other half say to leave fresh water daily.

If it was me i'd probably leave a smallish waters dish on the cool side but that's just me. I'm sure either method works just fine. They do get a lot of moisture from the veggies they eat.

[concept3]

I used to have water dishes in with my beardies and They never ever touched them/ Now Everyonce in a while I bathe them and if they are thirsty they drink then.

[bailey]

I bathe him twice a week.

[concept3]

your fine than dont worry about a dish.

[atw]

Add some sand. Impaction is paranoia if it is not a hatchling. You can get children's play sand at Home Depot that is great for beardies and very cheap.

[ChristinaM]

Originally posted by atw
Add some sand. Impaction is paranoia if it is not a hatchling. You can get children's play sand at Home Depot that is great for beardies and very cheap.

I am strongly disagreeing on this one, and hope the original poster disregards it as well.

Many studies have been done, showing adult dragons with sand impacting organs. Sand is DEFINATELY NOT recommended for any juvie dragon, and even adults do better without it.

Personally, I use bran for both juvie's and adults.

If you are curious on sand impaction, there's some very informative posts in this forum..... just use the search feature, and search for impaction. Some very qualified people have posted excellent posts on this topic.

As for the water topic: misting is fine, bathing is fine....there is no need to have a water dish unless your dragons likes to drink out of one..... misting the daily salad is very sufficient water for a dragon :)

[marisa]

I have a question and a comment about the set up....

I have had one beardie but I have always been under the impression that a WHITE basking light is better than a red one. I actually got a red one for sun loving baskers light beardies/iguanas etc with my first beardie, and when switched to white he seemed to bask more often and looked healthier.

Any truth to that? If so maybe that's a change you could make to your enclosure.

Marisa

[RepTylE]

Am I just not seeing the UV light in the pic? I haven't kept beardies yet but I thought that UV was crucial.
Maybe it just isn't showing up in the pic.

[bidden]

I also do not see a UVB light?

the white bulbs do make a difference, the brighter light is more a placebo. they think it's the sun, gives them somthing to look at when basking. If you have a bright enought UVB bulb it doesn't really make a difference if you have a red or white heat bulb. White bulbs are usually cheaper because you can use your run of the mill 50w halogen flood lamp from home depot for $5 instead of a $15-20 "reptile basking bulb" exactly the same thing.

also, water is not needed 24/7. they will just play in it more than drink it, then it gets dirty and when they do drink it, they are drinking dirty water. if you bath weekly, and feed fresh veggies dailey no constant water is needed.

[bailey]

there is a uvb light i promise and i've changed the red bulb to a white. also i'm keeping the paper towels and not using sand. seems to be working much better for my beardie and for me. Thanks for the posting!!!

[atw]

Many studies have been done, showing adult dragons with sand impacting organs.

Studies? What studies? Whatever. I am sure this is just anecdotal evidence. Even if it is 'fact', I am sure there are just as many ‘studies’ that would prove the opposite just as how eggs are good for you one day and bad the next. Honestly, when it comes to keeping reptiles some people are overly cautious and this is an example of it.

Beardies have excellent aim when feeding and even if it decreases their life expectancy, so what? I would rather try to approximate my lizard's environment instead of proving it with a sanitized world because of the remote possibility of impaction or because it is simply ‘better for it.’ This reminds me of people that will by a single onion or orange at the grocery store and put it in a plastic bag. I hate people like this. The precaution is totally irrelevant and creates waste. In fact, I would say that keeping beardies on paper towel would result in more people neglecting their lizards because it takes more effort to remove the paper towel than it does to spot clean sand. Has there ever been a study done to describe a cause and effect relationship between reptile neglect and substrate? Probably not because this type of study would actually be informative.

Ultimately, however, it doesn’t matter because there is no single answer to the substrate question but if you want something that is easy to clean, looks good, provides them with something to dig in, does not provide hiding places for crickets, cheap and that approximates their environment, screened play sand is it.

Adam

[ChristinaM]

Originally posted by atw
Studies? What studies? Whatever. I am sure this is just anecdotal evidence. Even if it is 'fact', I am sure there are just as many ‘studies’ that would prove the opposite just as how eggs are good for you one day and bad the next. Honestly, when it comes to keeping reptiles some people are overly cautious and this is an example of it.

Beardies have excellent aim when feeding and even if it decreases their life expectancy, so what? ....

So what? As a caretaker one would generally want their animal to live life to it's fullest capacity, not decrease their expectancy deliberately.



Ultimately, however, it doesn’t matter because there is no single answer to the substrate question but if you want something that is easy to clean, looks good, provides them with something to dig in, does not provide hiding places for crickets, cheap and that approximates their environment, screened play sand is it.

Adam

Since when does their natural environment have screened play sand? They come from area's when hard packed sand, not light and loose sand.

Bran does the exact same thing ( cheap, diggable, etc ).


I don't think this post is a sand debate, I believe it was a new dragon owner getting advice, and on that note....I'm done here, and hopefully some of what I've said has open some eyes. I must tend to my sanatised ( ummm, not really, it needs a good cleaning ) environment of my dragons with long life expectancies. :) Peace out. Enjoy your dragon Bailey, I'm sure you'll do a wonderful job with him and finding what works for you and him.

[atw]

So what? As a caretaker one would generally want their animal to live life to it's fullest capacity, not decrease their expectancy deliberately.

Wrong. I would rather have my animals live high quality lives instead of long lives. I think sand provides beardies with a higher quality of life. I have never attempted to 'decrease their expectancy deliberately.' I am just saying that because you can drown in 3 inches of water this does not mean that you should not take baths. The same goes for using sand with beardies... the risk is insignificant and as a result, so what?

Since when does their natural environment have screened play sand? They come from area's when hard packed sand, not light and loose sand.

I said approximate NOT duplicate.

I'm done here, and hopefully some of what I've said has open some eyes.

Yes... me too.

( ummm, not really, it needs a good cleaning ) environment of my dragons with long life expectancies.

Have a great Christmas!

[snakehunter]

Sand MAY not harm your herp, but as most of us are aware it is HIGHLY likely. Now when it comes down to looks sure sand is most pleasing to the eye, BUT I would most rather my cage look homely than know that my herp may be injesting sand and not passing it. On this note I would also like to say that this is where most first timers go wrong, they go for the looks and not the economical functional way, WHILE the looks may not be harmful to the herp it is alot easier for the keepr to clean and maintain the animal.

Baily keep doin what your doin looks good, Im sure you will have a happy compannion for many years to come.

-Jacob

[drewlowe]

Since when has keeping herps on paper towels became neglect, I guess pretty much everyone on this site is neglecting there herps.

If your all about the natural environment wheat bran makes a great substitute. It's VERY easy to clean and they can digest it.

Everyone has their opion on sand, i've seen it first hand so there's no changing my mind so if i chose not to use sand it's NOT neglect!!! It's being concerned with the health and well being of my animals in the near future and in the long run.


"Ultimately, however, it doesn’t matter because there is no single answer to the substrate question but if you want something that is easy to clean, looks good, provides them with something to dig in, does not provide hiding places for crickets, cheap and that approximates their environment, screened play sand is it."

Wheat bran also fits that mold perfectly. They can play and dig around in it, crix can't hide or breed in it, and it's easier than sand to clean (the wheat bran actually clumps the fecal and urate matter very nicely almost like kitty litter). And for 8 bucks i can get a 50lbs bag at a feed store that will last for at least 3-4 cage changes.

That's all i wanted to say about the substrate issue, I'm not making a debate or going "anti" sand, but just offering my opinion.


As far as the water dish as long as you give baths and feed salads they should get enough of there water from that. I used a water dish for about 2 months when i first got them and almost 4 years later they are still doing great and getting plenty of water from other sources than a water dish.

Jamie

[concept3]

a HEALTHY adult beardie will have no problems passing the few grains of sand they injest while eating, as for juvi's I would keep them on paper towl/ bran / whatever until at least a year old.

[bailey]

We've actually discovered a wonderful substrate that is re-usable. Non stick shelf lining. It's easy to clean and doesn't allow crix to hide under it. Things seem to keep getting better and better with him. thanks everyone.