View Full Version : A monster was killed!!
JimmyDavid
12-16-04, 01:40 PM
Well, not really a sci-fi monster but instead a real one. A giant nile croc was killed. It ate 3 kids and 2 women (not kidding) before they could get him.
It was 5.5 meters long and 1.5 tons. What a beast!
JimmyDavid
12-16-04, 01:41 PM
another shot
JimmyDavid
12-16-04, 01:42 PM
and another
Must have just swallowed them whole, looks like this guy needs some dentures.
rocketjawa
12-16-04, 01:46 PM
Is there a link to an article about this anywhere??
CHRISANDBOIDS14
12-16-04, 01:51 PM
WOW THATS HUGE, and too bad about the people.
C.
snakers55
12-16-04, 01:55 PM
Too bad about the croc.
snakers55,
You gotta be kidding me?
Im all for conservation and all.. but sometimes an animal poses too much a threat... like this one...
How would you feel if it was your kids that were eaten?
Im a strong believer that once an animal has killed a person for food.. it needs to be destroyed...
Oh I can see this turning into a flame war :)
snakers55
12-16-04, 02:03 PM
Lol..No,I completely understand.. I just hate seeing animals killed period.. Especially such impressive ones such as this.
Oh okay snakers55... I can understand that....
It sure is an impressive animal
I agree with Mykee, with those teeth I'm guessing he went after people cause they are easier targets. Too bad definatley an impressive creature.
JimmyDavid
12-16-04, 02:28 PM
It's really too bad it had to die. I remember reading about another giant croc "Gomek", also a man-eater, but that one was contained and taken to a zoo. That's a better alternative if possible to manage.
JimmyDavid
12-16-04, 02:34 PM
Damn, i wish they had called Australia zoo about that. haha, i guess we all wanted to check steve Irwin trying to catch THAT ONE, huh?
lol... imagine that... watchin ole steve dive on this monster :D
I can hear him now... "OH Kriekey..."
JimmyDavid
12-16-04, 02:55 PM
YOU KNOW THAT YOU DIED IN STYLE WHEN...
YOUR BODYBAG IS LACOSTE!
(i know, i know...pretty dark one. Shame on me, hehe)
honduranfreekk
12-16-04, 02:57 PM
:jawdrop: :jawdrop: :jawdrop: :jawdrop: :jawdrop: :jawdrop: :jawdrop: :jawdrop: :jawdrop: :jawdrop: :jawdrop: :jawdrop: :jawdrop: WOW holly shizzaaaaaa That is HUGE:)
Kelvin@Brigitte
BornboreD
12-16-04, 03:10 PM
My feelings about the death of that animal really depend on circumstances. In many places where large crocs/gators reside the people living in those areas know (or at least should know), "Hey, be careful around the water!!! There's big *** crocs in there!". If the woman and two children, were nearby "villagers" goin' down to do laundry, bath, fetch drinking water etc. then what really makes them any different than lets say a water buffalo, antelope, etc. going to get themselves a drink??? Sorry about your luck!!! If you live in an area that contains a population of Nile's than you should know better, and watch yourself around the water. It's not like a hungry croc thinks to himself, "Shoot, a human!!! Guess I'll just have to wait for the next antelope". A hungry croc, especially one of that size, would see any activity in or near the water as food. Now, if the croc had gotten up and entered a residential backyard, and picked off a few unfortunate people, I can see why it would need to be destroyed (relocation would be a better choice). But, really to my knowledge anywhere that there are Nile's (especially ones of that size), the people should know better, and watch their butts around the river's edge. Only ignorance would lead to thinking it's ok to kill an animal just because it happened to kill a human. Think about it, would it be ok to go and kill........let's say....a lion, just because I was stupid enough to stumble into it's den?? Or a rattler, cause I happened to step on it, get bit and not get the needed medical attention soon enough?? Not quite.
Colin
Woodpusher
12-16-04, 03:38 PM
I'd have to agree - no sense in shooting a beautiful ANCIENT crocodile because a few people were careless.
Vengeance
12-16-04, 03:41 PM
I'd have to agree, I'm not some big animal activist hippie or anything but just because it killed humans isn't an excuse to kill it in my mind. With the size of that thing it had obviously been around for a long time. I also don't think unless it was just targeting humans (can reptile brain functions even comprehend that kind of thought) that it deserves to have been killed. Containment, relocation, captivity, any of those to me sound like better options then killing something as rare as a croc this size.
daiyoukai
12-16-04, 04:37 PM
thats a shame, should have captured it and sent it to a zoo. Regaurdless how many people it ate it cant be held up to human "laws". something like this doesnt happen frequently (a nile that large).
daiyoukai
12-16-04, 04:38 PM
Originally posted by Vengeance
I'd have to agree, I'm not some big animal activist hippie or anything but just because it killed humans isn't an excuse to kill it in my mind. With the size of that thing it had obviously been around for a long time. I also don't think unless it was just targeting humans (can reptile brain functions even comprehend that kind of thought) that it deserves to have been killed. Containment, relocation, captivity, any of those to me sound like better options then killing something as rare as a croc this size.
It can identify that humans=easy meals. The same reason they chill by the animal crossings, easy food. But as I said above. shoulda just been moved or captured.
peterm15
12-16-04, 04:45 PM
i agree but with a crock that size it wouldnt really be the easiest thing to catch..... we dont know the story.... maybe they tryed to humainly catch it but when there lives became in danger they did what they had to do.....
even tribes in africa kill lions because of a threat to them or there village.... and niles are known for showing up in odd places( or so ive heard) so it is unfortunate but it had to be done... for the safety of the town and the ppl in it.... you never know maybe the town was there first...
its sad but im just thinking what it would be like to loose a child or a whife or a mother ect. ect. to an animal... once can be forgiven.. it happens... even 2 or 3 times... but after the forth.... something has to be done... no one should have to live in fear of the water 20 feet away....
re location would have been a way better choice but just maybe it couldnt be done...
Isn't it sad that of all the creatures in God's Kingdom, that the croc could have eaten, that humans were the slowest and/or dumbest ones?: "Hey kids! Let's go pet that big, harmless croc's head." Darwin at work again...
Tim and Julie B
12-16-04, 05:13 PM
Those pics look fake. But if there was/is such a beast I hope it goes to a zoo. TB
JimmyDavid
12-16-04, 05:46 PM
The site that posted that wouldn't release fake stuff. They show lots of crazy things from around the world, but always stuff that was proven right. They have anaconda attacks on video, they have pics of crazy accidents (watch your stomach) and much more, but all proven true.
www.picarelli.com
Jeff_Favelle
12-16-04, 07:37 PM
Like a living dinosaur. Too bad we've populated and destroyed this planet beyond recongnition so that a creature of that magnitude can no longer find a place to live. This planet would be so much cooler with out us on it.
JAdkins2451
12-16-04, 07:41 PM
It kind of suck that it happened, but it did.On the web site consumption junction they have what I belive is the same croc but there cutting it open and pulling out human body part. The title is Wheres steve irwin when you need him. I wasnt sure on how to link.. Sorry
Odessa78
12-17-04, 01:00 AM
Wow, no kidding that croc was deffinatly a monster!!! It really is sad though that the only option was to kill it. It's not everyday that an animal of that magnitude is found. It would of been a beautiful specimen to of had in captivity. Although I can understand the need, I could not even imagine what it would be like to loose one of my children to a monster like that.
Laura-Lee L
Woodpusher
12-17-04, 10:20 AM
Jeff;
Well said man, this planet would be a lot nicer (nature-wise) if there were no human habitation. On the other hand though, if this planet lost me, the coolness level would go down a notch.
concept3
12-17-04, 10:30 AM
I disagree with everyone who thinks it should of been sent to a zoo. I would rather be shot dead then sentanced to life in prison.
RepTylE
12-17-04, 11:14 AM
I am kind of nuts about this kind of thing. The way I see it, if you are in an animal's environment you are entering the food chain. Myself, I would most likely avoid areas where a croc like that is known to reside. If one person is taken then odds are that another one could be lunch too so to keep going to the same place seems a little dumb.
Same thing with sharks....if you go swimming in the ocean you are putting yourself on the menu. I don't like the idea of persecuting an animal just for doing what they do.
Removed_2815
12-17-04, 11:18 AM
Reptyle, I like the way you think...
Ryan
Its true.. we sentence the animal as if it was a human criminal.
There has to be some kind of balance though because ultimately it is humans who are on top of the food chain. We eat sharks, crocodiles, alligators etc. Ultimately we are the caretakers of this planet.
I can understand killing an animal if it is a constant threat to a human population.. for example if a leopard is coming into a village and attacking children you will end up shooting it. Remote, poor areas don’t have the money or means for things like relocation etc for animals that have become a threat.
With crocodiles I think people could get around the problem by building simple barriers and piers to get to their water supply at the river without having to go to the waters edge or in the same water that may have a large croc in it. Combine that with education in local villages and schools and you will have the problem solved and it won’t take thousands of dollars either.
RepTylE
12-17-04, 11:46 AM
I was thinking much the same thing, BAZ. There may be some parts of the story that we are lacking but in the case of crocs, it would be relatively easy to just stay clear of the danger area in my opinion.
I seriously doubt that a croc comes down main street gobbling up children as they go.
Paleosuchus
12-17-04, 12:37 PM
I think what was done to this animal was horrible to say the least. But i look at it this way, when a american alligator here, poses a threat there's a good chance it will be put down. Such as animal cops Miami. A 6 footer ate a dog posed a threat and they killed it. Aswell as all the other cases on that show and throughout FLorida. If that animal was anywhere else it would have been killed on site ( with some exceptions), or with more tolerance the first death it may have been killed. These people allowed numerous deaths before saying enough was enough. I bet it was just as hard as for them to kill this animal. Not sure what to think being this isn't or doesnt sound like the full story.
RepTylE
12-17-04, 12:45 PM
Originally posted by RMBolton
Reptyle, I like the way you think...
Ryan
Well it just seems arrogant of mankind to think themselves above the laws of nature when they go out there and put themselves at risk. Not like the idea of being a meal, then stay away from the restaurant is all I been saying.
I don't want to demean the deaths of the people involved but I can't stop thinking that it could have been avoided to a certain extent.
It is tragic when people are killed no two ways around it but nature has a way of thinning the herd and if you are stupid enough to be in the wrong place and you know it is not a safe area, you are basically putting yourself in jeopardy.
thunder
12-17-04, 02:22 PM
just a note: it is very difficult to relocate crocs and gators; they have an excellent homing instinct and will travel very long distances return to their place of origin. it would have been nice to have that big fellow in a zoo where he could be controlled, but the expense of mainaining such an animal may well be prohibitive, especially in a third world country. for native people who rely on the river for their water needs, i dont think it would be a matter of carelessness or baiting that led to these deaths (unlike in the us where it is almost always the case). an animal of that size is truly amazing and wonderful, too bad that he could not have been perserved, although he was probably pretty old at the time of his death. as for captivity versus death, i believe that an animal like that could be well cared for and live a fulfilling life in captivity, unlike some more active and or intelligent species. if you think it would be a life imprisionment, why do you keep captive reptiles of your own?
It was a bummer that the Croc was killed but relocation might not have been an option, budgets being what they are....it would be hard to ask the local population for money to help an animal that just ate the paperboy or whomever....people are hunting to kill, a great white shark in Australia today, who attacked some surfer. The thing that does bother me is we/people are on/in the croc/shark's turf..so the animal is just doing what comes naturally, ...Sad....but it doesn't mean the victims"had it coming" as was said on a previous post about a "Croc attack video"
JimmyDavid
12-17-04, 10:21 PM
For a good reason the "death penalty" is top of the list, even above "life". Because it's the worst fate possible: termination of existence. I think that an animal with good captivity conditions, food and space can live a fairly happy life.
Reptiles are always trying to escape, even when they have good conditions, but that doesn't mean they are unhappy. It's just that "escaping" is a priority prompted in their little brains. Dogs, wich are more brain-capable, actually exchanged the wild for the confort of captivity long ago, and get quite unhappy when dumped (wich would mean freedom for a reptile). think about that!
ohh_kristina
12-19-04, 02:52 PM
It is definitely too bad that it is dead. Something that has lived that long should be able to live it's life to a natural death. Unfortunately, sometimes it is necessary to "get rid" of "problem" animals. It could have been taken to some sort of animal sanctuary, though. There are a lot of better ways to deal with animals like that than to just kill them. Gorgeous animals, though. Wouldn't it be amazing to see something like that living in it's natural habitat? From a distance of course! :D
BoAddict
12-19-04, 03:29 PM
jimmy are you a vegan ?
if not then come down off your pedastal of animal rights
yea its too bad that it happened the way it does but there is nothing you or i can do about it
well yea there is you can move there and live amongst the animals and the people and when its your kid or mother brother father whom ever maybe you will change your tune.
Originally posted by chas*e
It...Sad....but it doesn't mean the victims"had it coming" as was said on a previous post about a "Croc attack video"
a little different from the 'croc attack video'
where the guy was smacking the animal, don't you think?
:rolleyes:
bistrobob85
12-19-04, 04:05 PM
In my opinion, the croc should have lived. Are we going to kill the Earth because it sent us a earthquake? Killing back an animal is one of the dumbest thing i've heard about. Do you think the other animals are going to learn a lesson from it!?!? NO?!? So its not worth the butchery!!! I know the families are going to be angry about their child being swallowed by a croc but the animal doesnt have to suffer because of it's accidental role in the food chain...
phil.
snakehunter
12-19-04, 04:16 PM
That is sad, maybe I am sick or twisted but I think that if you live in an area with animals that have to potenetial to kill you should arm yourself. WAIT! Not with guns and ammunition, but knowledge, KNOW what snakes are harmfull, KNOW the area you are working/playing in if there are monster crocs and such about, I feel if you are not smart enough to prepare yourself and avoid areas where bad situations are inevitable, and something happens TOO $%^&*(@$%# BAD. Just because you are ignorant and too lazy to educate yourself and your children doesnt mean that you have the right as a human to decide the life of another animal whom is acting on instinct and opportunity.
-Jacob
SCReptiles
12-20-04, 12:11 AM
Once these things become verified man-eaters, they have to be put down. Sure capturing them and putting them in a zoo sounds good on paper, but someone still has to care for them in captivity and by this point they have already began to associate people with food. The risk is too gate to keepers. Enough keepers are injured as is, we don’t need to put them in the position of cleaning up for man-eaters. One slip and fall, keeper is dead. The risk does not justify the outcome.
I have a theory I want to put forth, would like you guys more experienced in crocs then I am to comment. Crocs growth through out the duration of their life. So, the larger crocs must be very old. Seems many of these crocs are known man-eaters. Case in point the world record salty listed in the record book. He was a known man-eater. And for the minute we will assume this report is true that this one was a man-eater. Look at the teeth of this guy, you know he was old. I am thinking perhaps these animals are at the end of their lives and not quite as strong as they once were. Taking down a wildebeest or buffalo is a pretty tall order. Perhaps the larger, older crocs take to man-eating because they are an easy target and put up little resistance. Any other opinions on this?
daiyoukai
12-20-04, 01:38 AM
Originally posted by SCReptiles
Once these things become verified man-eaters, they have to be put down. Sure capturing them and putting them in a zoo sounds good on paper, but someone still has to care for them in captivity and by this point they have already began to associate people with food. The risk is too gate to keepers. Enough keepers are injured as is, we don’t need to put them in the position of cleaning up for man-eaters. One slip and fall, keeper is dead. The risk does not justify the outcome.
I have a theory I want to put forth, would like you guys more experienced in crocs then I am to comment. Crocs growth through out the duration of their life. So, the larger crocs must be very old. Seems many of these crocs are known man-eaters. Case in point the world record salty listed in the record book. He was a known man-eater. And for the minute we will assume this report is true that this one was a man-eater. Look at the teeth of this guy, you know he was old. I am thinking perhaps these animals are at the end of their lives and not quite as strong as they once were. Taking down a wildebeest or buffalo is a pretty tall order. Perhaps the larger, older crocs take to man-eating because they are an easy target and put up little resistance. Any other opinions on this?
Yes, old lions and other animals will hunt humans because we would be a nice size meal and have little to no natural deffence against an attack. These animals are all opertunistic so giving the opertunity to kill a human for consumption I dont see any reason not to.
KrokadilyanGuy3
12-20-04, 06:02 AM
(can reptile brain functions even comprehend that kind of thought)
Not all reptiles however, crocodilians do posse actual thought process.
The man eating bit is a bit far off on my idea. Crocodilians of this size and particularly smaller will associate a human as food. Not because we are human but because we are easy targets. An alligator more often than not will not eat a human, however, if they grew large enough to pin point us as food, I'm sure they would. As this animal did. As most crocodilians will once they reach optimal size.
I agree with you Chuck. This beast was old indeed and figured out humans were easy targets. However, I do not think humans were it's only food source; Just part of the menu. The teeth look fine to me; Capable of holding on to it's prey. Catching, holding on and down right over powering it's prey is all that's needed and unless the animal has some unforeseen health problems, he looks to be capable of doing all of this.
As someone already said, Crocodilians, particularly Niles do take note to feeding regimens and I'm thinking this guy figured if one came, more is sure to follow. I do not believe he picked out humans because of his weaknesses nor ours. Just Pinned a pattern, nothing more or less.
Should it have been killed?
No.
Should it have been relocated?
Pointless.
Captivity would have really been it's only logical survival, and not knowing the full story, I believe the animal was killed because these people were lazy. They were capable of removing the animal, transporting the animal, and craning the animal, but couldn't do it while it were alive?
The animal did live a long and obviously healthy life, too bad humans aren't as smart as we like to think we are. I mean seriously, 3 people killed in the same general location?
Zane
SCReptiles
12-20-04, 06:22 AM
Originally posted by KrokadilyanGuy3
Should it have been killed?
No.
That is easy for us to say over here in the US. but would feel the same way if it was your mother, sister, or wife that this thing ate? i would say probably not. we don't understand how it is to live that poor. the river this guy was in may have been there only water source. so they gave up their lives just trying to get water for cooking, washing, drinking. its a shame it had to die, but if it was killing people in Chattanooga, TN....i would have been one of the hunters. i love reptiles as much as anyone here, but i still feel human life is more precious.
KrokadilyanGuy3
12-20-04, 06:54 AM
Human life may be precious, but stupidity isn't.
Being the fact children were killed, I buy stupidity.
3 random killings by the same croc..
Unless the 2 kids were with their mother, then I buy the fact the croc did not kill 3 people.
It's not hard to spot a croc -A 16'er to say the least- I don't care what National Geographic says, and people in these native lands do know how to coexist with these animals, Since most of these people living among the River and most of the other limited parts Niles inhabit are tribes anyway, and have developed skills to by pass being eaten.
So no. The animal should not have been killed. I would not kill any of my crocodilians if a family member was killed. They know there's crocs in these ponds.
If this animal was killing people in Oklahoma, I'd be the first to try and catch it, If I'm going to waste effort on something, I might as well be completely happy about the out come.
Let's say these people were just the poor, it's not cheap hiring hunters, a crane, and any supplies they needed to get the animal.
A baited water trap, Flat bed truck, and gas money would have been cheaper with a clean out come.
I wish I had the whole story..
Zane
daiyoukai
12-20-04, 07:24 AM
Originally posted by KrokadilyanGuy3
Human life may be precious, but stupidity isn't.
Being the fact children were killed, I buy stupidity.
3 random killings by the same croc..
Unless the 2 kids were with their mother, then I buy the fact the croc did not kill 3 people.
It's not hard to spot a croc -A 16'er to say the least- I don't care what National Geographic says, and people in these native lands do know how to coexist with these animals, Since most of these people living among the River and most of the other limited parts Niles inhabit are tribes anyway, and have developed skills to by pass being eaten.
So no. The animal should not have been killed. I would not kill any of my crocodilians if a family member was killed. They know there's crocs in these ponds.
If this animal was killing people in Oklahoma, I'd be the first to try and catch it, If I'm going to waste effort on something, I might as well be completely happy about the out come.
Let's say these people were just the poor, it's not cheap hiring hunters, a crane, and any supplies they needed to get the animal.
A baited water trap, Flat bed truck, and gas money would have been cheaper with a clean out come.
I wish I had the whole story..
Zane
I agree fully with what you just said. And as someone else mentioned eariler if this is the same croc that was taped while being cut open and having human limbs removed, those limbs were from caucasion people. Not natives. So more then likely if this is the same croc the people it ate where torrests/nn "native" people. (dont know that much about the nile but Im pretty sure there isnt that many towns conected to it where your avarage african would be needing to collect water) and dont most tribes have posts in the water where they get their water to stop something like a croc from getting to them?
Originally posted by SCReptiles
Taking down a wildebeest or buffalo is a pretty tall order. Perhaps the larger, older crocs take to man-eating because they are an easy target and put up little resistance. Any other opinions on this?
Yup, you are right. It is the same as Tigers and other man-eaters. When they get too old to hunt the usual prey they turn to humans, we are much easier to catch. Of course preying at the edges of villages is common for the cats as they will take the weakest and easiest to capture, naturally children. Smaller meals but it is better than nothing to the animal. I saw one documentary on this that stated that on general the only tigers that will eat humans are old ones, if a young tiger kills a man in defense of himself he won't eat it, they seem to not like the taste but the old ones will hunt people because it is all they can catch. I would assume this croc was in the same boat, sit and wait at the watering hole for something slow and small enough not to resist much to come up.
Its a shame people murdered this amazing creature. Some times people forget, we invaded there area, you should not kill a creature for doing what comes natural.... As you asked above, if it was my family, or me that was killed I would not want the animals murdered.... I love my family, but if one dies that does not mean others have to as well ;)
JimmyDavid
12-20-04, 06:00 PM
I would kill an animal if he WAS TRYING to kill a friend or family, i would not search for him to hunt him down if it had already happened. It's as stupid as cutting down a tree in revenge because a branch fell on my head.
BoAddict, i'm not sure i understood your point!?
I agree with your completly Jimmy. I would harm, or even kill an animal if needed to dave a life of another animal or person or as in the event you provided, though not simply to get revenge.
Well put :thumbsup:
SCReptiles
12-20-04, 09:50 PM
Human life may be precious, but stupidity isn't.
Ok, so I agree with that statement, however, if that is the only source of water, they are not being stupid, they are just trying to survive. The same way they have been for thousands of years. They are not encroaching on the crocs, they have coincided with them for generations. Crocs leave them alone, they leave the crocs alone. Croc turns man-eater, they kill it.
I am completely amazed, I am only hoping no one really believes this nonsense about leaving man-eaters alone so they can continue killing. Surely you guys are only saying that cause you think it is what the other environmentalist want to hear. Ok, so if a croc kills an idiot that is trying to kill it or catch it, yeah, leave the croc be, I am all for that. But once they begin to stalk and kill women who are trying to collect water to feed their family, its time to load the Rigby 416 and put out some bait. I love crocs I have kept them on and off for about 15 year….but I wouldn’t lose a minute’s sleep to blow the brains out of a man-eater. I love reptiles, but I love my fellow man even more.
As said before, the croc was only doing what comes natural, you are making it seem like the croc is a man eater, its not. He did what comes natural, and I highlt doubt the crocs intentions are to kill as many humans as possible, we invaded THERE land ;)
Kyle Barker
12-20-04, 10:23 PM
Like a living dinosaur. Too bad we've populated and destroyed this planet beyond recongnition so that a creature of that magnitude can no longer find a place to live. This planet would be so much cooler with out us on it.
SCReptiles
12-20-04, 10:23 PM
As said before, the croc was only doing what comes natural,
Good point, and the family and friends of the people it killed was doing what came natural. So stop crying about it.
you are making it seem like the croc is a man eater, its not.
It ate 3 kids and 2 women (not kidding) before they could get him.
ok, there is my evidence that it was, where is your evidence that it wasn’t?
we invaded THERE land
Absolutely not! The land belongs to us. We were giving the land and dominion over it and the beasts that dwell in it. The site owners will not let me say more about that, but my brothers and sisters know what I am talking about.
The croc's were here long before man....
Man Eater- One who consumes man upon natural diet.
Humans are not in a croc's natural diet dude. You dont know the given situation, maybe a nest was near by and the croc felt threatend. Or was simply hungry, croc's dont usually think before they grad for food, he didnt know better. If we did not invade there land, THIS WOULD NOT HAVE HAPPENED.
SCReptiles
12-20-04, 10:55 PM
Man Eater- One who consumes man upon natural diet.
a murderer is one who murders. If I kill one person, I am a murder. If this thing eats one person, it is a man-eater. This thing ate 5, that we know of, rest assured there were more. You are making no sense, I say it’s a man-eater cause it stalked, killed, and ate people. You say its not, just cause you don’t want it to be. The facts are clear. This croc has took to eating people. If left to its own accord, it would have killed more people. If captured, it would be a constant treat to its keepers and any other people it came in contact with. Remember when Andrew hit south FL and released all those reptiles and birds? Suppose you put this thing is a zoo or zoo-like place. Another hurricane comes thru and you put a 16 foot man-eater in the local river? I mean catch enough hell from the general public keeping non-killers.
As said, its only our fault. If you know there are aligators in the lake in the first place, why in the hell would you swim in it? Its stupidity..... If we were to move him to a zoo, we could move him to one away from hurricane area if that would make people feel "safe". Two wrongs do not make a right. ;)
SCReptiles
12-20-04, 11:08 PM
getting water to feed your family is a far cry from swimming in a gator pond.
I dont see why you would still get water froma gator infested area, surley humans can find better water sources ;)
Murder the croc or not, it will not bring back the lost lifes...... Revenge is not an excuse for murder....
KrokadilyanGuy3
12-20-04, 11:34 PM
I agree Chuck, I really do not care as well.
What was done is done, complaining about it will only turn into nothing but more complaints. What I am saying, (And I'm saying this because this is what I think, I could careless what anyone else wanted to hear.) I highly doubt this animal was a strict human hunter. That's my only argument.
This 16' animal would have no trouble taking down a Wildebeest, Zebra, Or anything else that came to the water. The teeth serve nothing but grip and the animal has plenty enough to hold onto the animal in question, and being hit full strength by this animal would bring just about anything down that cared to face it. Man came to the water more frequently than anything else, all they seen were food in an often visited place. Not because they were Man.
I'm just saying it is not a "True" man-eater one would label an old lion or leopard. If you'd rather shooting an animal, that's fine too. Personally, I'd rather have the animal in my care if I could have done that. Baiting and shooting is just as easy as baiting and trapping.
To each his own.
-Though, I would have figured walking a few meters to either side would have been better getting water than death, since it's already known there's a large animal in that area..
It ate 3 kids and 2 women (not kidding) before they could get him.
ok, there is my evidence that it was, where is your evidence that it wasn’t?
I'm sure they wouldn't have mentioned anything else it has eaten...
maybe a nest was near by and the croc felt threatend
Doubtful; Males do not guard nests.
If captured, it would be a constant treat to its keepers and any other people it came in contact with
It is after all a crocodile..
Murder the croc or not, it will not bring back the lost lifes...... Revenge is not an excuse for murder....
Heh, this reminds me of Batman when Robin comes into play..
Living along the Nile, you have many choices of areas you cared to get water. You can also irrigate the waters, as many of the tribes have been shown to do so. You have to bathe, you have to drink, you have to fish, all understandable. They did what they felt needed to be done. That's cool. I would have went about it differently, but that's me. There are many different choices that could have been done. However, the only thing that gets me is it being a man eater. It's a Nile crocodile. Any Nile of size, if given the chance will take it's luck. Just because it has eaten a human does not mean it will be a greater risk in captivity than another Nile. My 6'ers would have me killed if I gave them the chance. Neither this nor my animals are trying to kill because of the species it's after. Food is food and if you're dumb enough to drink from the same area crocodiles are known to be, my friend, you are food. Now if the animal came escapading through the village, hey, I would have a different vote but that's not the case. Each time a man was taken, it was in his territory.
As though I have the same faith, Chuck, I will still react to someone's actions on something that I feel could have been different.
Zane
By the way, who has the story on this, I can't seem to find it.
Kyle Barker
12-20-04, 11:50 PM
i do feel for the family i strongly disagree with teh murder of the croc. the saying "2 wrongs dont make a right" comes to mind.
jsut proof that humans are a VERY hard species to co exist with.
people are liek teh guy at work that is big tuff and is never wrong. everytign is justified and everythign in his actions is right.
if i came to your bathroom sink to get water would you let me be to happily bath and gather? we to kil for food, do we see a group of chickens coming to get revenge on there babies death?
we are as much food as any other organic thing on this earth. sure when its something close to you it hurts, but the difference between human and deer is probably very little to the croc...jsut a matter of which tears apart easier.
ravensgait
12-21-04, 09:16 PM
I'm new around here but couldn't help but comment about many of the responses this thread has recieved. First I'll say that I care about animals and their well being(been there done that ) But when it comes to them or us well the animals get the short end.
Some here say well gee don't go near where it's eating your friends or build whatever to protect yourself from the big lizard ! or take it to a zoo or transport it to lala land. Or whatever .
It's funny to read these comments but really sad as well to see how far most people are from any real understanding of wild animals. Look at it this way if it was in your neighborhood you'd be freaking out!! You can say what you will but the truth is you'd want the man eater disposed of right NOW. Some say well take it to a Zoo, well one thing is taking something that big and keeping it safely it's a bit different then one that size that grew up in capitivity. And besides who are any of us to complain or cry out about how other people deal with their problems like that. Which one of you could have gone and gotten it and brought it home to play with your kids??(I'm almost sure someone will say they would of lol) Sure we are responsible for taking care of this planet but that doesn't mean we let it eat us!
We have to manage the wildlife be it shooting the deer to keep them from overpopulating and eating your flowers or killing a big Croc that is eating people one thing about it once an animal kills a human it knows we are easier prey and has to be destroyed.
Sure it's to bad such a grand ol animal had to kill someone and thus have to be killed in turn. From the looks of the animal it was on it's last leggs anyway probably the reason it killed those people couldn't catch much otherwise.
Your forgetting we are animals as well.... Infact were the animals which have ruined this planet, there was peace until we arrived.
Cruciform
12-21-04, 09:30 PM
Yup, and long after we've raped the planet and burned ourselves out of existence the animals will still be here.
Not necessarily the same ones, but nature has a way of keeping things going.
People have said we're overdue for the next mass extinction. It started a few million years ago, we're just getting up to speed.
SCReptiles
12-21-04, 09:47 PM
Rikki, where do you get your information? First off, we were here first and the animals came second. And there has never been piece in nature. The law of the jungle is eat or be eaten.
Zane, I normally agree with most of what you say….but you are off base on thinking there is no difference between a normal crocodile and a man-eater. There is quite a difference. Take for example the croc attack video. I am sure everyone here has seen that. The croc never tried to eat the Chinese guy. The attack was defense. If it had been this Nile, he would have tried to eat him. In keeping any big croc you run the risk of an attack, but most crocs want to avoid human contact, one that has associated you with food will not avoid the keepers, it will stalk and attack them. Croc teeth are not designed only to hold. That is alligator teeth. Gators take small prey that they can swallow whole. Croc’s teeth are designed to rip and tear. They kill large prey, then rip it into bite size pieces. This old guy couldn’t do very much ripping with what he had left.
Hey guys, anyone that knows me, knows I would love to take in that 16 foot man-eater and keep him in my back yard. But its not practical. Alligator Adventures put 1 million dollars into bringing that 20 footer into the US. It would take at least that much to get this big boy over here. There is no funding for that. And once here, is it responsible to keep a known man-eater? Sure, you can keep him north of the hurricane section, but earth quakes can hit anywhere at anytime. Hell, I truck could lose control and run thru the croc wall, then you have that beast in your neighborhood. The expense of getting him to captivity is not practical and the keeping him is irresponsible. It had to be killed and even deep down, PETA knows that to be true. =)
ravensgait
12-21-04, 09:49 PM
For those who think people should be removed from the planet(animal rights goal) I wonder how many who say that would be the first to step up to take the pressure off the planet??? Or step up and offer yourself to a croc who is hungry but is past his prime and can't hunt well any more? I know you think you should be one of the few left to enjoy it right watching the wolves play ball with the deer. Like I said It is really sad how so many have no idea.
But we don't want that to happen but we don't have a realistic answer to the problem either!! Yep were all animals but I'll tell you this I'll get upset when some other animal eats a friend or family member and I'd bet my last dollar every one of you would too. You'd be holding the torch on the monster hunt. Guess I'll not be around this board long lol
Take a look at PETA.com
Cruciform
12-21-04, 09:58 PM
ravensgait:
haven't seen anyone here say that yet. care to quote?
ravensgait
12-21-04, 10:10 PM
This planet would be so much cooler with out us on it. Jeff Favelle's post
umm this came from the second page of the thread and a few post above you'll see it implied as well as in other post. Yep I did read them before making that comment. Ah it is so very sad to see . Does anyone remember when the whales were traped in the ice in the artic ocean years ago?? millions spent trying to save them, natives wondering why all the fuss about food!! funny how it doesn't seem to concern people when it's the reverse
SCReptiles
12-21-04, 10:22 PM
Guess I'll not be around this board long lol
White southern males are a minority on this site. Our way of thinking is generally frowned upon. But so long as you don’t threaten anyone, or talk about religion or politics, they will let stay around. They have kicked me out a time or two, but always let me back if I promised to do better. Haha. Funny thing is, these left wingers will tell us how wrong we are and stupid our way of thinking is….but any thread we are involved in will get massive attention. I think in secret, they wish they could be us. =)
Cruciform
12-21-04, 10:23 PM
Okay, maybe it's semantics, but I didn't see anything about removing us... just the fact that it would be better for the planet if we never were.
I do see your point though.
I fall into the "category" of people who believe it would probably have been better for a lot of species if we never were here, but that it doesn't really matter in the long run because we're probably not a permanent fixture in the universe. Our species is having a grand time of it right now, but things change.
Nature will be rid of us and our ecosystem wrecking ways eventually. :)
KrokadilyanGuy3
12-21-04, 11:33 PM
Chuck I see your point, but like I said, these people are running to the water to fetch whatever it is they need to fetch. Niles hunt the rivers edge, where these guys are frolicking. A 16' Nile will see anything and one as a food source, and being where they were, that's what became of them.
If the animal went into the village, I would be singing a different song.
The animal in the video was in a different situation. One, the animal probably wasn't hungry; Two, the animal was possibly stressed and three, the animal most likely didn't see the person as a food source at the given time being the situation. In this sense, being the Nile was in food mode, we cannot distribute the two as an argumentative situation.
Nile crocodiles eat humans every year. All animals varying in size and all accounts being either in or around the waters edge. This is the feeding zone of these animals and in this zone things will happen not everyone would like. Blaming it on the animal, which true has basic thinking capabilities, is ridiculous being it is still restricted and is limited. The animal points out, food source being easily attainable in this particular area, I would bet any other animal in this area would have been taken as well. Much like the migration, a lot of the Niles will congregate in a particular area being that is where the food source is easily obtainable. Same situation.
The croc had more than enough teeth to do what had to be done. I'm aware croc teeth aren't designed only to hold, however they do and his can. This animal has enough teeth to do what's needed to be done. Also, most crocodilians in captivity already associate humans as food, and if given the chance would most likely take you out. This animal was only 10" at the time of the pic several years ago and even at the age associated me as food. As do all of my animals.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v424/Palustris3/Crocodilians/27552448sqlzzaehcl_ph.jpg
Having this animal from another really isn't much of a difference if you're worried about being attacked. Now, as you've said, the price may not be practical. Understood. And though I would love a beast like this as well, I as well would not pay the amount needed for it. A Nile croc is a Nile croc. If it were anywhere in the states, I would be the first one in line trying my hands at catching the beast.
Anyway, as I've said, these people had to do what had to be done. That's perfectly fine. What happened to the animal afterwards? And, has anyone got this story?
I'll get upset when some other animal eats a friend or family member and I'd bet my last dollar every one of you would too. You'd be holding the torch on the monster hunt.
It would be terrible seeing you lose all your money. I've had a family member murdered, and I still do not wish death on this guy. I mean seriously, what would it prove? Wouldn't make me feel any better. Wouldn't bring him back. Mind you I'm upset about it, but wishing death is a far cry from my mind. I would feel the same with any thing else because as with anything else, it would prove nothing.
Now, If I were hunting and crocs were my gig- Ok sure.
I only wish to be someone famous...
My argument is the man eating bit and I'm basing this on my 9 years of keeping and helping and watching others with their animals.
-Mind you, a few examples of specimens may venture from my sayings, but we'll talk about that later.
By the way, I'm leaving town for the holidays so it would be great if someone emailed me the story.
Palustris3@aol.com
Thanks
Zane
daiyoukai
12-22-04, 12:09 AM
You guys are stupid. One call to steve irwin/animal planet and there would have been a 2 hour special in the making. :p
JimmyDavid
12-22-04, 05:08 PM
Let me say what i think of all this.
First, i still say it's stupid to get revenge on an animal, and that people should know the laws of the country they live in.
Crocs are part of the natural fauna of most African countries and i'm not sure you can just kill one if you feel like it. I'm sure the local government is responsible for the payment of physical, moral or property loss, as a result of an action from a protected species. So those people could have asked for a lot of cash (we are talking about the death of people, here).
Instead, because they shoot first and asked later, they could be in trouble. I
remind that Crocodylus niloticus is CITES-A in Ethiopia, Botswana, Kenya, Malaui, Mozambique, Tanzania, SouthAfrica, Zambia and Zimbabwe.
They have a small exportation quota in
Madagascar and Uganda. that's it.
No animal rights activits goal is to remove people from the planet, where ever you got that from....
Animals were here first, the dinosaurs and giant reptiles (animals) were here long before mman kind. If you would like to go by the Bible, God also states animals were created first. ;)
ravensgait
12-22-04, 06:11 PM
Animal Rights Organizations well you might want to look into some of their goals. I wonder why some are listed as Terrorist organizations ??
Rikki I see you have PETA at the bottom of every message are you a card carying member? If so how is it that you own and keep animals ?
JimmyDavid
12-22-04, 07:27 PM
It's better to own animals than "animals minus the inside", hehe.
I can't beleive that people on Reptile forums actually believe the stuff they write...Always being so politically correct and kiss-a....If a croc kills anyone ..kill it...simple ...sad for both the croc and the person.......What Education can you give to the swimmers or the people who live near the water...none that they don't already have....Relocation/captive care...nope....who is going to pay...no one.....and if people can't open their pocketbooks to pay for the stray cat/dogs in their own area...come on
This animal was precious...just like the animals you feed your snakes or the crickets to your gechos......
PS The guys on the Rat/Mice web sites HATE us Remember that...lol
One word for all of you: RELOCATE
Plecosstomus
12-22-04, 09:26 PM
woh...that's huge!!
Rikki....If you look close ...we are animals also...through some quirk in evolution we became the big kahunas on the planet..for now anyways......and just like the grade 9 science experiment with fruit flys in a jar," species equalibrium" , we will extent our natural enviorment until extinction....until another "animal" comes along to do the same thing....Bible stuff notwithstanding
coldblooded
12-23-04, 01:39 AM
Don't worry we'll all be gone soon....
And there is nothing we can do.... or is there.
:)
ravensgait
12-23-04, 10:22 AM
Coldblooded We can run screaming in fear "THE SKY IS FALLING" Oh that was a chicken wasn't it . Oh well we'll just try running and screaming then or for this time of year "The tree is falling the tree is falling" Bobby get your damm snake out of f " ing christmas tree !!!!
Geckos don't make good tree ornaments!!!
Have a happy Hoilday everyone !!! and remember not to much roast rodent for those reptiles
KrokadilyanGuy3
12-23-04, 09:30 PM
Four words for you..
Relocation would not work.
Zane
the_frog_man
12-25-04, 01:03 AM
i think they should stop killing animals just becase they are eating humans. they are just trying to keep well fed so they can survive and live another day. i say leave the crocs and snakes and all other animals that are killing for food.humans do a lot wors than that ok.
that was proble a 65 year old croc he deservs a good easy meal.
there are somthing like 8 billion people jus ask your self how many years untill there are 0 nile crocs
thanx froggy
shaggybill
12-25-04, 01:04 AM
I agree with those who say the croc should have been killed, and for the same reasons too. No need to mention them.
However, this reminds me of a show I saw a while back on TV. There was a man-eater croc somewhere along the Nile, and it had eaten several (5+) people. You would think that the natives in the area where it was would exercise extreme caution when fetching water or whatever. Nope. I couldnt believe it when I saw little kids fishing and playing in knee deep water in rural parts of the river, the same exact area this croc was in. The same went for the men and women too. No caution whatsoever, just walking around and in the river like it was perfectly safe.
The point of this post is too agree, to a degree, with what Zane said. Some of these people are just stupid. I dont care how poor they are, they should know better than that.
Cruciform
12-25-04, 01:17 AM
They know the danger. But they still want to have lives, have fun.
Every time you get into your car there's a chance you're going to get killed. Still do it?
daiyoukai
12-25-04, 01:46 AM
Originally posted by Cruciform
They know the danger. But they still want to have lives, have fun.
Every time you get into your car there's a chance you're going to get killed. Still do it?
are you going to kill he person who hit your loved one?
Slannesh
12-25-04, 02:50 AM
That's more than a little oversimplified daiyoukai. You're valuing the life of a known man eating crocodile to the life of a human at fault in a car accident.
By your own logic I really hope you're a vegan with no pets at all. Since that would make you a murdering slavemaster.
Come on. We're not talking about downtown NYC here. It's more likely than not a small village on the nile river, where yes, crocodiles are a fact of life. But when a large predator kills multiple people and relocation isn't an option for either financial or safety reasons then hunting the animal is more than justified.
Yeah, it's sad that such a majestic old croc had to be killed because of it. But let's get real people. If you value that life over or equal to any human then it should apply to all life shouldn't it? Think about that next time you have a cold. All those poor poor innocent little Virii just doing what nature intended them to do and you callously killed them all.
Please. :rolleyes:
shaggybill
12-25-04, 03:32 AM
Cruciform, you make a good point, but if Mercury announced that all models of the '98 Mountaineer were likely to burst into flames because of a fuel problem, I wouldnt be driving my mountaineer anytime soon.
Im not saying they shouldnt have fun or a life, but with news of a man-eating croc around, just be more cautious.
daiyoukai
12-25-04, 04:01 AM
Originally posted by Slannesh
That's more than a little oversimplified daiyoukai. You're valuing the life of a known man eating crocodile to the life of a human at fault in a car accident.
By your own logic I really hope you're a vegan with no pets at all. Since that would make you a murdering slavemaster.
Come on. We're not talking about downtown NYC here. It's more likely than not a small village on the nile river, where yes, crocodiles are a fact of life. But when a large predator kills multiple people and relocation isn't an option for either financial or safety reasons then hunting the animal is more than justified.
Yeah, it's sad that such a majestic old croc had to be killed because of it. But let's get real people. If you value that life over or equal to any human then it should apply to all life shouldn't it? Think about that next time you have a cold. All those poor poor innocent little Virii just doing what nature intended them to do and you callously killed them all.
Please. :rolleyes:
what if I eat and keep people as slaves :(
:p
I know I know
Personally, I think the most important factor in determining a croc to be a man eater is whether it demonstrated a preference towards attacking and eating humans. If it was a threat that could not be feasibly avoided in the future, then I feel killing it would be justified.
I strongly disagree that it should be killed simply because it has killed humans before. It has done nothing wrong on any level.
By the way, if humans were here first, why are there no fossil records of us predating all other forms of life? Or do you believe that none of the dating techniques used in science are of any relevance?
Also, I agree that the world would be a better place without us. We have and continue to disturb the equilibriums of ecosystems. However, there is no ecosystem where humans are essential for equilibirum other than those we have created ourselves. Since we are here though, we have the right to survive and defend ourselves. However, since we are capable of taking responsibility for our own actions we should be obliged to do so, especially when most other species on this planet cannot.
There's no need to go to any extremes. I'm not saying you should sacrifice any important functional area of your lifestyle to alleviate the stress of your existence on the natural world, but why damage the environment for no functional gain? For instance, is there any purpose to SUV's other than to appease the ego of the driver, especially when it's not used for anything other than to commute to work on a highway? SUV's are simply the current iteration of the family car. First there was a station wagon, then there was a minivan. So, simply because SUV's don't have the stigmas attached to the other two types of family cars, they have become widely popular, while still maintaining much of the functional utility. However, they can't do anything that other more fuel efficient types can, other than what's never done in practice anyway. How many people really go off-roading or make any use of the capabilities unique to SUV's? Yet, many of these same people have the nerve to complain about the rising costs of gasoline. If they weren't squandering it so foolishly, maybe there'd be more of it around and it wouldn't cost so much? In my opinion, if you intentionally shoot yourself in the foot, you have no right whatsoever to complain about the pain. Not to mention, the toll you take on the natural resources which are NOT INFINITE. We are simply indulging in our selfishness at the expense of future generations.
Perhaps animals aren't as smart as us, but they're certainly less stupid.
mk-ultra
12-25-04, 10:15 AM
Everyones opinion in this matter is kind of irrelevant as none of you including me lives near this area .
Everyone in here has the money an education to be able to use a computer . Everyone in here has to walk a maximum of 20 steps to get his fat butt a glass of water . So no one knows what its like to live there under the threat of other animals . No one here knows what its like to have his life at risk just to be able to feed your family or to clean yourselves or whatever .
Every animal on this planet will kill to defend itself or to protect its territory . A lot of people think that this beautiful place called earth that we see on tv is a peaceful paradise . Well ITS NOT .
Have you ever seen a lion kill baby cheetah ? Yes they do that . They dont eat them they just kill them for tresspassing on their hunting ground . As crual as it can seem thats natures way .
Beside this big old croc would probably not survive anyway without easy human or dog or any domesticated prey which is probably why it is so rare to see one as big as that .
Please do not juge what you just dont know .
shaggybill
12-25-04, 11:34 AM
Its not very accurate to say that the rising costs of gasoline is in correlation to the trend of SUV's being used as family cars. Its also not accurate to say that the reason gas prices are high is because there isnt much of it around. There is plenty of gasoline out there, and it's nowhere near being depleted.
That doesnt mean you take a life of an animal who made a mistake. ;)
Originally posted by shaggybill
Its not very accurate to say that the rising costs of gasoline is in correlation to the trend of SUV's being used as family cars. Its also not accurate to say that the reason gas prices are high is because there isnt much of it around. There is plenty of gasoline out there, and it's nowhere near being depleted.
SUV's consume much more gasoline than comparable family cars. There are LOTS of SUV's on the road. Therefore, a significant amount of gasoline is incrementally consumed due to the SUV trend. With much more gasoline being consumed, there is less supply available (not only in the long term, but also in the short term, as we are using it as fast as we can drill it). Less supply means higher prices, simple economics.
It may not be anywhere near depleted, but we are using it like it will never be depleted. It is not an infinite resource, and takes a LONG time to be developed in nature. That is why organizations like OPEC must set limits; not to artificially inflate the value but because they recognize that oil reserves are depleted MUCH faster than they are replenished by nature.
Now don't get me wrong, I'm not the kind of guy who goes out of his way to be environmentally friendly, but no matter how you look at it, SUV's are a flagrant waste of natural resources that have no real incremental functional benefit. If it weren't for a loophole in the laws, they wouldn't even be legal. A sedan that used a comparable amount of gasoline would not be allowed on the road.
shaggybill
12-26-04, 01:46 AM
Originally posted by hhw
SUV's consume much more gasoline than comparable family cars. There are LOTS of SUV's on the road. Therefore, a significant amount of gasoline is incrementally consumed due to the SUV trend. With much more gasoline being consumed, there is less supply available (not only in the long term, but also in the short term, as we are using it as fast as we can drill it). Less supply means higher prices, simple economics.
True, they do use alot more gasoline than cars, but that doesnt mean we are going to be in a gasoline crisis anytime soon. Not due to the unavailabilty of it anyways. I recently read somewhere that there is enough in AK alone to supply the US with gas for 500 years. (drilling in AK is an issue that I dont want to get into here, just making a point)
I dont think "less supply, higher prices" applies here, because there is no shortage.
If you know differently, enlighten me, cause I would like to know...
ravensgait
12-27-04, 09:52 AM
I see this just keeps going on and on. Froggy thats a real nice statement are you willing to go over next time it happens and offer yourself as a snak? If you and other who feel as you do did that then I think it would take the pressure off of those that don't want to be a meal for some critter.
Once a animal kiils and eats a human it will do it again a proven FACT. As just one example look at Wolves. In North America other then a rabid wolf there has never been a wolf that attacked and or ate a human. Yet in europe and the old world it has not been uncommon through out history. The reason for this is all the wars with many dead left on the field. Wolves began eating the dead and its not a big leap from that to killing humans when they were hungry. The same has been true for other species of animals all over the world once they kill a human they tend to do it again.
We've all seen video of crocs laying in wait while herds of animals cross rivers. They are smart enough to know that this is food. they don't attack elephants and hippos etc because they know that they are to large and dangerous to attack. So a Croc attacks a human and finds that it doesn't have horns or hard sharp feet nor sharp teeth and is much easier to bring down. Doesn't take a very smart animal to realise that wow this is much less work and danger than attacking a Zebra etc. and so it begins to hunt humans. So once an animal attacks and feeds on a human it has to be destroyed as quickly as possible before others get the same idea from being near and seeing or smelling what it has done and try it themselves. So if you want to look at it in reality by killing this croc they have probably saved others who might have learned from it.
I know this will upset those that feel killing any animal is just wrong! as they eat their steak and live in their nice house built where many animals used to winter and live etc etc but then there isn't much you can do about hypocrites and those who live in their own very narrow worlds.
SCReptiles
12-28-04, 12:01 AM
Here is a point for you tree humpers that has been over looked thus far. Killing this beast will strengthen the croc gene pool in that area and help propagate the species. Let’s say this guy was 60 years old. He has probably dominated that region for 40 years. By now he is inbreeding with this daughters and grand daughters. Inbreeding weakens the gene pool. Killing off corc-zilla opened things up for a new alpha male.
JimmyDavid
12-28-04, 06:48 AM
What do you care about strengthening crocs gene pool? You said before that this beast shoud die anyway...
I wasn't going to post on this at first, for fear of just beating a dead horse. But I get the feeling some people really don't understand at all.
a) yes, those people are probably uneducated.
b) Chances are, that is either their main, safest, or only source of water.
c) actually, unless the water is crystal clear, you are going to have a VERY hard time seeing that croc.
d) it might have taken a witness before they discovered what was going on.
e) The bottom line - the things they valued most (each other) were being destroyed.
The situation might have been different if a large gator was wandering around backyards in Florida eating poodles. But these people didn't have the money or the means, and needed to protect themselves. Before anyone can say how horrible they are for killing it, or that it should have been relocated, how COULD they, etc...
...walk a mile in these peoples' shoes! Get the facts together. And please. Don't tell me you'd be fine with an animal eating your mother, father, brother, sister, lover, child...
If you had a lion in your backyard, eating your family...even if it was there first, I'm sure you'd have it removed...<i>with whatever means you had.</i>
SCReptiles
12-28-04, 11:03 PM
Correct, I said this particular beast should die. Not the entire species.
CamHanna
12-29-04, 12:21 AM
Is it ok when dolphins kill sharks??
From http://www.wiu.edu/users/emp102/DolphinWeb/dolphin_longevity.htm
Certain large shark species are predators of bottle-nose dolphins. Dolphins remains are often found in the stomachs of tiger sharks, dusky sharks, and bull sharks.... Dolphins can gang up on a shark and kill it by ramming the shark's gills with their snout.
Very similar situation I'd say.
JimmyDavid
12-29-04, 05:19 PM
I guess some of you are missing the point. We are not saying those people have no right of self-protection(wich includes killing for survival). We have been discussing if it was really necessary to search for that croc and kill it since the harm was already done.
A croc is a force of nature, just like an earthquake, we have to learn how to live with it and tolerate it if we want to co-exist with nature in this planet. Blind Vengeance is what moves us sometimes, though we don't admit it. It makes us feel a little better. I believe the family of those people that died in Phuket wish they could kill the sea...but it's impossible, and dumb. The croc is like the sea, a simple force of nature that we must learn to respect.
Very well put Jimmy, though i believe we can not change what they already have in there minds even though theres no excuse for murdering an animal simply for revenge.
1 death, sure I mean it could have been an accident, the croc took an opportunity and acted like he should by getting his meal. This croc didn't kill ONE person. So apparently they DID do as you suggest Jimmy, they left it alone. The first time.
The second time, and so on, it got too be too much. I would have killed it myself had it eaten four people. The "harm" was done you say, but it wasnt done! It continued being done over and over again. Not just one person. That's the difference in this case IMHO.
Marisa
JimmyDavid
12-29-04, 05:32 PM
If you prove to me that the croc searched for humans IN A SPECIFIC WAY, i'll hand it to you. If you prove that this croc woudn't take goats, gazelles, impalas or another animal, but instead had a true desire to eat humans, then i'll consider it self-protection. But let's face it: i'll believe 1000 times first on human stupidity than in a picky crocodile.
It IS human stupidity but he didn't take ONE person!
So let's say he grabs someone. Fine. It sucks but the people leave him alone and chalk it up to tragedy and being in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Then he took another.
And another.
Then he took TWO more.
It took FIVE people before they killed him. You still don't think that's a reasonable number of people that he killed before it was time to do something about it?
I am certaintly NOT saying he decided only to eat people. But apparently he missed five gazelles and took five people instead. How many people would he have to grab before it would be o.k. to do something about it? LOL 15? 25?
I am also not saying death was the best option, but for these people who might not have resources quickly enough, and who were scared, that's the way they solved it. They aren't living in North America where institutions might be able to help within a couple days.
Five people died. They had a choice to make. They made it. I for one will not judge them for it.
Marisa
You could move the alligator to a reserve spot which is where they all belong since humans keep invading there land. You get upset when an animal kills a person, then as humans murder millions of animals daily its ok?
We murder millions of them daily- its ok
They murder 3 of us- its wrong
We all have the desire to live, animals and humans alike, though we usually do not make in meaning of situations.
How many "reserve" spots do you think are left? They are full. If they weren't things like crocs and burms wouldn't be hard to get rid of.
Large old crocs can be difficult to relocate as well. One this size would need a large teritory if it's own. Who is footing this bill? They had to make a choice.
Marisa
There are many wild life protection lakes all over America and Canada, though humans murder the animal because it will cost less, people are pathetic.
"We murder millions of them daily- its ok
They murder 3 of us- its wrong"
If those three were your mother brother and sister, and we decided NOT to remove the croc and you still had to get your drinking water down there, your attitude would change.
Sitting comfy behind our computers is a LOT different than being faced with a VERY difficult decision like these people were. No one saying it doesn't suck he had to die. But the reality is reserves cost money, moving him alove costs money and manpower which costs money. Trapping him alive costs money. How many more family members would you sacrifice for this one croc?
Again, they had a choice to make in a bad situation. I will not judge them for it from behind my computer where I get my water from the tap.
I don't think any of you guys are wrong. I just think these people shouldn't be judged as harshly as they are. It's not like anyone here stepped up to help them before it killed five people.
Marisa
If it was me who was killed by the croc i would want nothing done, if a fmaily member was killed I doubt two wrongs would make a right in any situation.
This has already taken place, talking about it for days isnt going to change anything.
JimmyDavid
12-29-04, 05:51 PM
Ok, i'm surprised this is a herp site and nobody noticed one major thing. One flaw that proves there's more to the story than it was told. This is no lion we are talking about, it's a croc. The time between meals for an adult croc is quite long. That means the animal had started killing months ago...and now they did something about it?!?
I believe they skinned the croc to make money. Since this was a particular big one, it was hard to keep a low profile about it. So the story of a man-killer became convenient. Sounds likely?
You have no facts is the real problem.
Two wrongs don't make a right? LOL That has NOTHING to do with it killing FIVE people!
Wow you are extremely difficult to have a conversation with. It's like you think nature reserves are all free sitting empty with plenty of room for 15 foot aggresive crocs and that native people have all the means in the world to deal with them in your way. I can really see these poor villagers being able to locate a nature reserve in canada and then pay for it to be caught, moved and settled there. Yeah. O.k.
Wow.
I think sometimes peoples cushy feelings for animals makes them pretend they wouldn't shove a hot poker through a crocs eye if it had a hold of their arm. I'd kill it with my bare hands if need be. Period.
Marisa
Jimmy! You said it wasn't a proven man eater, and they should have left it alone. Then you say this:
"and now they did something about it?!? "
LOL! They did exactly what YOU said they should at first! Left it alone!
I am done here as you guys are even confusing me and I wasn't even in these peoples poor situation. :D
Marisa
Lets put it like this Marisa:
Say you eat five stakes over the period of a week. You think its right as you dont take the time to think about the living creature you murdered for food. (Exactly how the croc feels towards eating humans).
Would you like to be murdered for doing what comes natural in your mind? Im sure the answer is no.
The animal ate 5 humans, we eat billions of animals and the animal is the one doing the wrong?
Rikki what you are saying is not WRONG.
The problem is it's not REALISTIC! It's not a WORKING theory for these people.
Again it's difficult to talk to people about this when they compare an immediate danger in a poor uneducated community to eating burgers in comfy North America who are raised for that purpose.
Here is one interesting link for those who think he should have simple been trapped and moved locally (as internation relocation is OBVIOUSLY a non-realistic choice)
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2003/09/0926_030926_tvcrocodiletracking.html
Enjoy,
Marisa
I understand what you are saying Marisa, the people are not well educated in such situations as you sait above. Im just saying that there is no excuse for the murder of animal for doing what comes natural, the same for murdering a person because you eat an animal.
Lets drop the subject, its getting us know where. :)
KrokadilyanGuy3
12-29-04, 06:36 PM
Actually, any problematic alligators 4'+ are killed. In this case, the alligator would have been killed just for looking at a person wrong. Alligators are only relocated when it is in unsuitable habitats and most of the time they wind up in farms.
And thanks Marisa, that's why I said relocation wouldn't work. Zane
There are placed who accepte large alligators, incase in Little Rock arkansas they have alligators in there wildlife reserve over 14'! Relocating a croc to a larger lake would be no problem. But the people did not think before they acted. In both cases its just wrong.
"Relocating a croc to a larger lake would be no problem"
LOL! Seriously? "No problem"
If you really believe moving this croc from SOUTH AMERICA (oir ANY other country) to another country (not to mention catching this beast and transporting it) by poor villagers in an uneducated country would be "No problem" I can definitly see why this conversation is going no where.
Marisa
The 4ft law only applies in northern america, theres no law against taking in a croc or relocating if this croc is that size in SA. If you cant relocate a cerial killer we dont just murder the person on the spot. Same should go for animals.
Your logic, and realisim are akin to your thoughts on PETA in another thread Rikki. That's not an insult either. It's simply you seem to go "gung ho" about things that simply do not work in the real world.
My answer here is the same as there, you need to do a little more research on what's realistic and what isn't.
Marisa
This page gives a TINY insight to moving a large croc.
http://www.reptile-gardens.com/maniac.html
These people also had money, and had the permits in advance. Something that is UNREALISTIC to expect from some normal everyday people living in poor areas with no access to money, parks or permits.
Marisa
We are right to our own opinions, I simply do not think you should murder an animal for acting natural. Im leaving this thread, its pointless.
KrokadilyanGuy3
12-29-04, 07:31 PM
Why is a Nile Crocodile in SA?
The rescue in AR do not take in animals that have attacked people.
In SA, relocating Orinoco crocodiles would take weeks of planning and permitting, just like it would with Niles. Also, just for the record, the rules for Orinoco crocodiles are far more strict than dealing with Niles and relocating them is in fact illegal without proper paperwork, as well as taking them in.
Zane
One last comment (lol):
So your saying if its too much work, just kill it so it because its easier? thats not right.
peterm15
12-29-04, 09:29 PM
how many ppl argueing the fact that it shouldnt be killed agree in the death penatly... and for everyone that says they dont believe in it i have another ?... have you ever tried to argue with it, make a stand....
alot of ppl see it fit to kill a human whoes done rong but dont see it fit for an animal... whats with that...
personally im all for it... you may see it as right or rong but if anything ever happened to anyone i love i wouldnt just sit back and let it happen... id be doin something about it...
should the crock have been killed, in a perfect world no... if it did something to someone i loved id be the one pullin the trigger... i dont care wether your human or animal...
in alot of tribe or group type animals if you attempted to harm one the others would defend ( i believe i heard this for gorillas and wild dogs) ... its the same thing with humans...
sorry about the spelling im really really tiered
When humans kill they know what they are doing, animals dont.
ravensgait
12-29-04, 11:07 PM
Rikki your wrong animals make choices on what they will attack and what they wont, they are more intelligent then many think and dumber the other seem to think. The reason most animals don't attack humans is the same reason mice don't attack cats ! They fear them because they are higher on the food chain. Rikki you are a predator just like all humans are . We were born that way and though you may try to deign it you are. It is hard to have decussions like this with Animal rights activist, because most lack any real knowledge of animals and have this idea that they just some how know! and their over all unwillingness to see the real world. I'm not trying to insult you here just talking about my observations. I've talked to many Activist and visited most of the larger organizations web sites. Little truth or reality to be found with either.
I think most if not all of us here feel bad that the Croc had to be destroyed but what was done was reasonable a killer was destroyed. You can go on about how they could have moved it or whatever . This wasn't some fuzzy stuffed croc or a sweet little cartoon deer this was a living Monster. You can say what you will but I know in my heart just as you know in yours that if this crock had ahold of your mom or dad and was dragging them under you'd kill it in a heart beat to save them and I would hope you'd do the same no matter who it was trying to kill in order to save them.
We can wish and hope and say what we want but when it comes down to it human life is valuable above all others. Some seem to forget this and some choose to ignore this but to most reasoning humans this is a Truth!
I do not at all lack animal knowledge, i have been with animals since the begining! I know they are smart animals, I am the one always saying animals are smarther than the majority of humans. Just because you have talked to a few AA doesnt mean all are that way "you described".
The croc was hungry saw prey and attacked NATURALLY, becuase people invaded there territory ;). I never said the croc was a fuzzy stuffed creature, i have came in direct cotact with crocs before, you are acting as i think the animal is a fun and cudly creature, which is not the case, no true AA thinks that way.
As said before they killed after the event, if i had to kill to survive i would, but if the person is already dead why kill? What will it solve, ask your self the question. It solves nothing, the should be handled in a humane and ethical way, not an act of stupidity.
BoidsUnlimited
12-30-04, 12:45 AM
Originally posted by Shad0w
snakers55,
You gotta be kidding me?
Im all for conservation and all.. but sometimes an animal poses too much a threat... like this one...?
Us humans pose as a threat to every species of animal out there...should we be rid of?
I think a nice re-location woulda been fine.
snakers55
12-30-04, 01:28 AM
Lol..Mission to Mars.. A couple of things I disagree with (if it matters at all) is that one, ravensgait said that mice do not attack cats because they are afraid of them,well of course, cats are 100 times larger than mice, but with a lot of animals, they will eat anything smaller than them,or try to at least.. Also, it seems that one of Marisas main arguments was that the crocodile ate several people and was left alone intil now, but as someone else mentioned, how did they know it was that particular crocodile for the first couple?? Maybe it took them 5 lives to catch on.. Finally, I think that comparing that scenario to the gators in florida is somewhat different.. North American's have a totally different lifestyle than people in africa... If a Florida resident wanted to not go anywhere near any gators, that's easy for them to do, these people in Africa probably encounter animals that are life threatening on a daily or weekly basis, and have limited ways of avoiding them, they cannot simply put up a chain link fence to block out any unwanted crocodiles from wandering into their pools so to speak.. It is very very interesting reading everyones views and opinions on this subject (lol,and hopefully I don't starta ny wars, because I hate typing a lot, I just felt left out that 10 pages of threads were posted and I only posted one little message at the start lol).. Sad thing is, I think I've read every single message too!!haha.. Keep em comin'!
Boids Unlimited, also well put. We kill everything but our species its fine, you say its nature. They kill us its wrong? Its just nature :P
ravensgait
12-30-04, 03:18 AM
Well we could guess all we want about how long between each human death it was. Um folks most crocs don't hunt humans they tend to avoid them . If they didn't there would be far fewer from eating people and us destroying them.
Rikki we kill our own kind always have and I'm sad to say probably always will.
Rikki this is just a guess but you seem like a very young person and I would also guess that most of your animal experience has been with pets and captive animals? Which gives you no real idea of what their true nature is. You have a right to your opinions as we have a right to try to show you the reality of situations like this Croc but as I and others have noted you seem unwilling to see. You keep saying well why kill it after it has eaten someone!! The reason which is as plain as can be, is that it will kill again and again untill it is destroyed. Moving it wasn't an option we could all wish it was but it wasn't a reasonable option for these people. You and others can say and dream what you want to but the fact is the vast majority of people in this would would have done the same thing , destroyed the croc. . It was old and most likely couldn't hunt it's natural prey any more and found people easy to catch, it has been proven time and again that once an animal kills and eats humans it will continue to do so.
Folks you can say relocate or fence the water off or whatever but what was done was the best thing for all concerned no if ands or buts about it. You can keep saying poor animal, people are so mean, we invade their territory etc well for those of you who seem not to know people belong to this earth, sure there are to many of us and we make a mess and must do better but we are the top animal here. Now if you want to give up your house and car and cloths and all the other stuff that you have to be one with nature I don't think anyone will stop you but after a week or so in the wilds naked cold and hungry that bunny is sure gonna loook tasty and his fur will looook so warm..... bye bye bunny that is if your smart enough to catch it (Sorry about that Rikki)
By Nikki, im guessing you mean Rikki. No im am not a young person, or at least not very young, I am in my early 20's. And you should never underestimate a person due to age, i have been in contact with many, many wild animals and have been in dangerous situations as well....And we do not know if moving the croc was not an option, rather is was or not we should not murder...
Crocs are never ones hard to find a meal, they easily capture dear and large fish, saying the croc was old doesnt mean we murder it. My gradmother is old, shall i take a pistol to her head? No one is saying people do not belong here, but we have DESTROYED this planet. ..
In todays world we have evolved and have other humane and ethical options of feeding and keeping warm, you made it look as we do not ;)
Slannesh
12-30-04, 05:09 AM
Are you always this intentionally obtuse Rikki?
In todays world we have evolved and have other humane and ethical options of feeding and keeping warm, you made it look as we do not
This incident happened in Africa along the Nile river. We aren't talking about downtown New York here. And keep in mind this isn't a 6' aligator we're talking about.. it's a 15' known killer that on at least two seperate occasions decided to dine on people. Also, you keep insisting on calling killing the croc murder which is completely wrong.
From the dictionary:
Murder:
n.
1. The unlawful killing of one human by another, especially with premeditated malice.
2. Slang. Something that is very uncomfortable, difficult, or hazardous: The rush hour traffic is murder.
3. A flock of crows. See Synonyms at flock.
The Croc is neither human nor did it have 'malicious' intent. It was hunting and feeding as instinct and survival demand, plain and simple.
However I personally find it offensive that you're now valuing the life of one rogue crocidile as equal to that of 3 KNOWN human victims and who knows how many more unreported victims? Let's get real here. Since you're even on this site I can pretty safely surmise that you keep herps as pets? So if, as you've inferred, they deserve all the same rights and freedoms as any human doesn't that make you a bit of a hypocrite? I notice in another thread you're looking for wholesale reptile deals? Moving from unlawful imprisonment into full fledged slave trader now are you?
At least you got a clue and dropped the PETA crap from your sig :rolleyes:
My reptiles are not in any way kepy as "slaves" as you described :p.
Murder, aka killing from one being. Murder taking ones life, shooting a croc is taking a life....same thing ;)
Murder is muder, get used to it. Shall you be shot in the head for eating a steak? Its natural, what the croc did is natural.
JimmyDavid
12-30-04, 09:19 AM
10 pages of disagreement...wow! incredible.
After reading peterm15's comments i got worried. He said he would pull the trigger on either animal or human...hmmm, justice by his own hands. ok, i guess that's at least 10 years;)
Someone mentioned that the croc should not go to a zoo because if there ever was an earthquake, the walls could come down and we would have a killer crocodile out in the streets...OMG, Well, what can i say about this?! Let's see...we have an earthquake strong enough to make such damage and there's nothing better to worry about than a croc?! I guess we would have lions, tigers and rhinos on the loose also because every zoo has those, but our concern would still be the croc. Perhaps there would be thousands of people to rescue from beneath the buildings, but (you got it) our concern was the croc. I can see the president on tv "beloved nation, we are gathered in this dark moment. The victims are over 30000, and we must seek confort on each other now. Our professionals will begin a rescue mission for survivals, err...as soon as we find a crocodile first". hahaha, well, i heard it happened before with a king cobra (for real) but it's stupid.
ravensgait
12-30-04, 12:55 PM
Rikki like most animal rights ers I've met you take a small part of a conversation or comment and key on it and seem to ignor the rest ie "My gradmother is old, shall i take a pistol to her head" doesn't address the other issues of an old Croc and she is human not a Croc or mouse. In reality there is a really really big difference. When it comes to many things in life no age doesn't matter, but in my 20s my perspective on life was much narrower then it is now they call it life experience. I'd like to hear about one or two of these dangerous situations with wild animals.
Also Like most you bend the animal rights credo to suit your needs ie owning pets how can they be as equal as you if you keep them where you want and do with them as you please? Sorry about the name thing I fixed it. By the way shooting a killer of any species to save someones life isn't murder.
Slannesh I asked her about keeping animals a ways back in the thread at least she answered you.
I could see it now the Croc arrested for multiple murders, His Lawyer argues that he is insane ie didn't know or understand that what he did was wrong. Judge rules in crocs favor and the croc is sentenced to a facility for the mentally ill. Is released after 5 years and eats 3 kids and a dog. Poor Croc "da"
Here we go again.... The other animals on the planet may not be as valuable to you as it is to them, though do you really think they care much about us either? Animals have the same desire to live and he did what came natural! Thats the bottom line!
The croc could have been left alone, relocated, the options can go on and on.....
I have been charged by a 11' alligator, ive been trampled by hers of horses and much more..... I know how animals are, so please do not try to make it look like people who beleive animals diserve the right to live know nothing.
No one is suggesting the croc is "arrested" as you put it.
JimmyDavid
12-30-04, 03:00 PM
Ok, i can see a bit of truth on everybody's opinion here. Some are concerned about the crocodile, others about the humans. It's all fine.
But you all have to realise that sometimes there's no excuse: VENGEANCE is a powerfull motivation. Period! We all try to come up with justifications for our more violent actions, a redeemer to help us sleep better at night, but revenge is the only way out for our adrenaline build up. And it feels so good...
"ohh, he deserved it!" "he brought it on himself" " he had to be stoppd or he could do it again", and so on. Let's be honest, the scariest killer is the one that knows what death is and still he likes what he does, and that description can only be applied to a human being. Now, a serial killer gets 20 years and goes to jail. That means that after 20 years you'll have the "scariest killer" free to kill again. Why wasn't he killed then? Will you ever trust him in your neighbourhood again? So, where's the theory that a proven man-killer should be stopped forever? Perhaps it's more easy to apply that on a croc, because it's just a stupid beast anyway...
I remember reading somewhere that they killed the horse that hurt Christopher reeves. For God's sake, can you get any dumber? Killing an animal because the rider took a fall. It's not like the horse planned it...gee.
I admit that a human life is much more important than an animal's but I still say that the"Vengeance factor" is what makes us ... a little less human.
CamHanna
12-30-04, 03:20 PM
Posted by Rikki in August (http://www.ssnakess.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=51052)
Im just curious, how old is everyone here? I may reveal my age soon... Can people guess how old i am?... Between 13-69.... 14
Posted by Rikki in this thread
I'm am not a young person, or at least not very young, I am in my early 20's.
They sure do grow up quickly.:p
Yeah thanks Cam Hanna. In another thread I KNEW you said 14, now you are in your early twenties?
Where is honesty these days people? Simple honesty. One should learn that before they can talk about whats right and wrong for others to do.
Marisa
*blushes* tired of everyong constantly arguing about age. Its patheic how people are treated on these forums, and the mods and senior members are the ones usually doing it....
JimmyDavid
12-30-04, 03:59 PM
Is Rikki a HE or a SHE? I'm confused...
HAHA Yeah the mods are constantly bringing people down for how old they are. It's getting so bad I burned my birth certificate the other night to protect myself.
Please.
The members or mods hardly EVER have age issues. More like you have age issues.
Marisa
Ok marisa, you think that.
Just stop it Rikki. Understandablly anyone would be upset after getting caught being dishonest about their age, but really now.
Can you not just enjoy the site? If someone gave you crap about your age would the better solution not by not taking it to heart and go on with your enjoyment of the site? You could have easily PM'd a mod if someone attacked you over your age. If a mod did as you seem to claim, then why not PM another mod?
Oh because that's right. You don't have specific examples of people being attack over their age.
JUST ENJOY THE SITE! That's it. Be honest, post info, reply to threads. Just have a good time.
Marisa
Still waiting for a PM with links to examples so instead of your complaints someone can fix the problem for you.
I'll keep waiting.
Marisa
KrokadilyanGuy3
12-30-04, 05:33 PM
Um folks most crocs don't hunt humans they tend to avoid them . If they didn't there would be far fewer from eating people and us destroying them.
Most crocs do not hunt humans because most crocodiles lack the size and with this lack the confidence which brings forth why they avoid humans.
However, being 15' anything is game.
Crocodiles eat humans many times a year, especially in the Nile and particularly porosus. These guys have the size as well as the power to make the means of you and I. Fewer attacks on humans are indeed true, but fewer specimens of attainable size would likely be the reasoning.
This thread reminds me of two movies I enjoy. Alligator and Lake Placid.
Alligator; because everyone arguing this beast needed to be shot just has me picturing this guy rampaging the villages and chasing down people to exhaustion.
Good movie though.
Lake Placid; because it helps as a visual aide.
Reason being, this guy(s) proved to be man eaters on many accounts however, you seen proof that it did indeed eat other animals. Also, the scene where the bear and humans were near the lake shore, the beast took out the bear. This movie helps demonstrate my reasoning.
Good movie as well.
Now, I know movies are hype and all that jumberly jazz, however both these movies come to mind in this discussion and do help to see the followup.
As for relocation, it seriously would not be likely to work, as Marisa also said, these people did not have the resources to provide such a devoted study and lacked the means transportation. I do think the out come could have been different, but in reality what's been done has been done-what's a bunch of bickering on a forum going to do to change it? Want to change the out come of the next croc that WILL eat a human, preaching your ideas would go forth better there than here.
A lot of great points though.
Rikki, you were trampled by herds of horses. How did you come out of that alive on all accounts?
Zane
Slannesh
12-30-04, 05:34 PM
What YOU don't seem to get Rikki is we don't much appreciate Liars and hypocrites here. 20something or 14? Which is it? Animal Rights activist or reptile wholesaler? Make up your mind, because to be perfectly honest, the flip flopping from thread to thread is really making you look stupid.
You go on and on and ON about animal rights and completely ignore everyone else's valid FACTUAL points and just continue to spew your moronic rhetoric. Your posts are filled with factual innacuracies and when they're pointed out you ignore them.
Animals CANNOT by definition be murdered. They can be killed yes, but murder is something people do to other people. It's a matter of malicious intent as I quite clearly pointed out before.
If you were at least consistant I could have some respect for that. As i've posted many times in the past I respect and support the basic ideals that PETA SAYS they promote. But their methods and hidden agenda ideologies I don't. Hence I cannot support the organization as a whole. I'm sure all your PETA friends would just LOVE to know that you're trying to get into the slave trade (as they would see it)
And by the way, giving Mods attitude isn't going to win you any points either. It just adds more to the pile and further goes to prove that you're more likely 14 than 20 something. You got jumped on because you keep getting caught in lies and can't seem to figure out from thread to thread what you believe in. It's got nothing to do with how old you are. Many of the site's members are 15 or under and are deserving of respect. You however, in my opinion, are not.
We all talked enough and we all know things are getting out of hand.
Thread closed.
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