Suggestions for animals in a river tank

[Jack]

I'm giving my kids a 29 gal rivertank for Christmas. I've got a lot of experience with fish, but none with reptiles or amphibians. I'm interested in keeping some reptiles/amphibians, but not sure what would be best and easiest for this type of environment. I realize I will likely have to feed some live food, but would prefer animals that will take some prepared foods or at least don't feed so much that I'm constantly having to run to the pet store to pick up more live food.

About the tank: The water section will be heated by an aquarium heater. The tank has a glass top, which is again covered by a screen top. The glass will cover all but 1"-2" of the tank (which is why I also have the screen). Lighting is a strip light with 2 20w flourescent bulbs. If additional heating is necessary, I'll add an incandescent bulb or a heating pad to the back of the tank.

Anybody have this type of setup or have recommendations for good animals to keep under my scenarios?

[Terri]

We have a smaller version of a river tank set up.In the corner of the tank is an underground filter to keep the water clean. We have a sunken log,several rocks and a pathoes plant in the tank. The water is about six inches deep.We use a red light to keep the water at the right temperture. So far we have two types of crabs, small watermelon crabs and red claw crabs. We also have ghost shrimp and feeder guppies.(already have baby guppies)We provide prepared foods as well as the guppies.Not sure if this helps any, but it is entertaing and seems to work well, Terri

[thunder]

a small turtle such as a false map turtle could work. they can subsist on a diet of prepared food.

[snakers55]

A turtle would outgrow that size of a tank within a few months though.. I'd suggest maybe some newts.. They'll eat live foods as well as frozen bloodworms, just take the heater out of the water if you go with newts as they prefer it quite cool.

[thunder]

actually, false map turtles stay small their whole lives

[munchy]

some type of small crayfish for sure. post pics when you get it all set up!!!

[Double J]

Firebelly toads will be your best bet for this setup. They will utilize the land sections as much as the water section. THey are active, comical, cute as heck, incredibly colourful, and are about the easiest amphibian to care for. Come to the amphibian forum for more info on these great little frogs, and I can fill you in with a little more detail. The tank you outline sounds good so far, though will will not need any heating whatsoever for these frogs... the fluorescent lights will be plenty. Plus, you can have some great live plants such as pothos that look incredible and will thrive. Feel free to ask more questions.
Good luck

[snakers55]

False maps stay smaller than sliders and cooters, but 8-10" still isn't tiny, and definately too large for an aquarium only 12" wide.

[Jack]

I think firebelly toads would be great (I do have some questions I'll ask on the other forum). However, I was hoping for 1 or 2 other species as well. The site where I purchased my rivertank inserts mentions several animals including day geckos, tree skinks, tree frogs, swamp lizards, chameleons (I think they are really talking about anoles), newts, salamanders, mud skippers and fire belly toads. I really don't even know if you can purchase all of these animals in pet stores. Some might have to be collected. I also don't know much about the care of many of these things, but would like to learn so I can make proper additions to this system.

[Manitoban Herps]

Mudskippers would be great also. I rememebr seeing an AQUARIUM magazine that had a island with 2 madagascar day geckos on it, they also climbed the glass above the water. They had small fish benath the water.

[Double J]

Stick to a single species Jack!

These fancy little mixed tanks always end in disaster. The most common reason being that animals from different parts of the world are mixed, and they cannot handle each other's bacterial loads... and end up dying as a result. This is an all too common problem. As for giant day geckos with mudskippers.... the geckos will chow down those mudskippers in no time.

Until you are willing to accept dead animals every month or so, please stick with one species in your tanks.

Nobody has ever convinced me of any benefits that would come from a mixed herp tank. Therefore, I see no reason for them.

Remember, these mixed tanks you see at pet sotres... they are continously replaceing animals, as they are either being sold every few weeks, or dying. We cannot forget that reptiles and amphibians are NOT tropical fish.... and mixed tanks are far more difficult to achieve SUCCESSFULLY than freshwater tropical fish. The only mix I could suggest... would be some white cloud minnows with the toads... though they would be eaten fairly quickly.

Check out this link below, it will forever turn you off of the notion of mixed herp tanks.

http://www.caudata.org/cc/articles/Mixing_disasters.shtml

There are just far too many risks involved... especially for someone who is new to reptiles and amphibians.

Good luck

[DragnDrop]

Mudskippers are very interesting fish, no doubt there. However, they need brackish water which isn't compatible with the other animals mentioned here so far. Their care isn't the easiest either (been there, done that).

[Jack]

Thanks for the link, Double J.

It definitely appears that firebelly toads and fire belly newts are out. However, are there potentially less aggressive animals or those that inhabit different parts of the tank that could coexist? For instance, is it possible that tree frogs would climb to higher areas away from the water, while newts would likely stay close to the water (possibly tree frogs are also less aggressive)? Or is it possible that anoles or day geckos would spend most of their time in higher areas and in terrestrial plants, while fire belly toads might stay in the water or at least close to the water's edge (possibly anoles or day geckos are a little larger and tougher and less likely to be attacked by the toads)?

Variety would be good for the kids and help them stay interested. However, I'm not interested in trying something that is doomed to failure. I have no interest in watching these animals kill and eat each other, though I don't really care if a frog or lizard takes a fish. I'm going into it knowing we will likely lose some fish. It does appear that three species might really be difficult, but is two species possible?

[boidlover]

I keep a tank that has zebra danios (fish), a few creek chubs, some snails and firebelly toads.. I've had it up and running well over 18 months now and it is running very well.. to the point that my kids can maintain it alone (aside from the complete water changes)

[CamHanna]

What if he had treefrogs (green, squirrel, grey...) and green anoles? With an island and a pothos canopy there should be plenty of room for each. They are from different orders (amphibia, reptilia) and the same geographic area so I don't think pathogens would present a major problem. Seems interesting to me. Would it work?

[Double J]

Again, keeping day geckos or anoles with the toads would give you the "New World syndrome"... as these animals would likely die due to internal bacterial and parasite issues from living in an environment in which exposed to each others feces. IT is much like the way you get sick if you go to mexico and drink the water. Though the Mexicans can deal with teh bacterial load, we cannot as we are not used to it. Plus, anoles and day geckos prefer far warmer tanks than do the toads. These lizards mentioned need basking spots in the high 80's and low 90's. The ambent tempereature in the tank would simply be too much for these frogs. Firebelly toads prefer temps in the low 70's and will stress out if kept in the mid eighties for too long. Heat stressed frogs are not a pretty sight. Plus, the fire belly toads would tox these lizards out.
As for CamHannas suggestion... the anoles and green tree frogs..... again.... though they do come from the same geographical region, they inhabit far differnet *microclimates.* The treefrogs generally inhabit cooler shadier areas during they day out of the sun, while the anole are out basking directly in the sun, chasing around insects in the warmth. Creating both of these microclimates in such a small tank is next to impossible. The needs of one species would be compromised for another either way. It is far easier just to stick to one species. You will have far fewere headaches, and no dead animals.
If you would like to put some aquatic snails or small fish in the tank such as guppies, danios, or white cloud minnows, you could easily get away with that. Those would be the only other species would ever consider mixing with these por any other frogs.

Good luck... and keep the questions coming.

[Double J]

Here is a great link to an article on "New World Syndrome"

For anyone considering mixing species, this is more ammunition against it.


http://www.livingunderworld.org/amphibianArticles/article0007.htm

[Jack]

I'm interested in that pothos plant. Is it aquatic or fully terrestrial? Also, do you get at a pet store, or just at a nursery?

[Double J]

Originally posted by Jack
I'm interested in that pothos plant. Is it aquatic or fully terrestrial? Also, do you get at a pet store, or just at a nursery?

You can use it both terrestrially or simply floated n water. It is the ultimate amphibian keeper's plant for that reason. I have it planted in soil, AND floating in water in aquatic tanks..... and thrives in both!

I would buy if from a nursery. Actually... Home Depot sells HUGE baskets of it for around nine dollars... definitely the best deal.

Make sure you wash all of the soil off the roots, and rinse the leaves off well. Plant suppliers often use a nice little cocktail of fertilizer and pesticides. That said, if you give the plant and its roots a good rinse under warm tap water, you should have nothing to worry about. And if you buy your plants from a flower shop or grocery store... DO NOT let them put any of that leaf shine crap on you plants... that stuff is awful, and remarkably toxic! It is a petroleum product. No need to worry... most plants do not have this on them... just a warning because it almost happened to me once, the woman at the flower desk at Zehrs almost used it on one of my plants when I was paying for it.

Good luck.

[DragnDrop]

Originally posted by Double J
the woman at the flower desk at Zehrs almost used it on one of my plants when I was paying for it.

Should have bought it when Angie was on duty, ... she'd have known better ;)

[wiseman001]

MY suggestion...... Don't MIX reptiles with amphibians..not " ALWAYS" a good idea..

If u do maybe tree frogs with anoles..FIREBELLY toads are agressive with other amphibians eat fire belly newts.

[Double J]

Wiseman... read my above post on anoles and tree frogs... you shouldn't do that either... here is an excerpt........

" the anoles and green tree frogs..... again.... though they do come from the same geographical region, they inhabit far differnet *microclimates.* The treefrogs generally inhabit cooler shadier areas during they day out of the sun, while the anole are out basking directly in the sun, chasing around insects in the warmth. Creating both of these microclimates in such a small tank is next to impossible. The needs of one species would be compromised for another either way. It is far easier just to stick to one species. You will have far fewere headaches, and no dead animals. "


Double J