Well this was just a BIT cruel... [Archive]

latazyo

12-09-04, 11:49 AM

yes,I was trying to be rediculous

truly it is known that we're encroaching on animals' habitats, but that's just life and the nature of us humans...always will be

in hindsight, they should have removed the nest years ago so that the hawks wouldn't have been there for a decade...in the hawks' best interests

RepTylE

12-09-04, 11:50 AM

I can't help but think that the urban environment was no place for the hawks. I saw some of the documentary awhile ago and people seemed to enjoy observing the hawks. But with partial carcasses and pieces of the nest falling to the sidewalk below, I can't help but think that it is not a good idea to have them there.
I'd hate to have hawk doo doo fall on my head, I don't think I'm alone on that point.

D J N

12-09-04, 11:53 AM

********* if the hawks arn't hurting anybody whats the big deal? I like a hawks nest in my building :)

-edited for language-Heather-

joey

12-09-04, 12:00 PM

Originally posted by D J N
********, if the hawks arn't hurting anybody whats the big deal? I like a hawks nest in my building :)

:D amen.

personally, I would be honored to have a hawk poop on my head---wouldn't wash my hair for weeks! lol :p :rolleyes:

Double J

12-09-04, 01:07 PM

It shows nothing but the contempt for nature of these arrogant, yuppie bastards. The part mentioning the Cadillac Escalades is really what fires me up... these vehicles represent everything that is wrong with North American culture. I apologize for the rant, but things like this truly fire me up.
And what about the part that mentions that the nest "*may* have violated city regulations." That too, is sickening. Honestly, there is no good reason to do what what done other than disrespect.

Humanity's contempt for nature will be humanity's undoing.

No, I don't apologize for the rant.

joey

12-09-04, 02:27 PM

Well said JJ.

clint545

12-09-04, 02:40 PM

I think while all the rich co-op owners were there watching the nest down, someone should have went to their homes and plowed them down!! Overall what they did was a real shame!

snakehunter

12-09-04, 02:42 PM

Amen JJ. I think I would quite school and work if a hawk family bilt a nest outside of my window. All I would do is just msit and watch and take notes and just marvel.

On a related note my moms friend put their family canaries on the deck for some air and sun while she cleaned. About a half an hour later she happens to glance on the deck and finds an ADULT redtail standing ontop of the cage grasping at the helpless birds! One died as a result from a severe scratch. She (the friend) has pictures of her husband standing a foot away from the hawk, this hawk was DETERMINED to have a canary snack and didnt leave for another two hours.

I myself found this absolutley amazing, I would have brought in the birds and tossed him a rat, that would be so breathtaking.

She was furious, and was extremely upset, but I think most people overlookl nature and the inteligience and resourcefullness of her species.

As for the corporate bastards, you better not let me find you.

I hope you guys build a new nest in a better neighbor hood Pale Male and Lola, Best of luck.
-Jacob

sapphire_moon

12-09-04, 02:44 PM

I guess people forget that we have to SHARE the earth with other animals, we can't own everything.

latazyo

12-09-04, 06:07 PM

oops...forgot how Green it was here....

its weird that they were in the city...probably good eating there though...at least they weren't shot

joey

12-09-04, 06:18 PM

PLENTY of pigeons, rats and squirrles....

Jayson

12-09-04, 06:36 PM

I think that you really have to try and look at it from a property owners point of view.
Lets face it people these days will sue for anything. And i am pretty sure if a stick fell 12 floors and cracked the wrong person on the head there would be a very large lawsuit.
Also for the owner to pay someone for the removal of the nest tells me that people have likly been complaining.

peterm15

12-09-04, 06:38 PM

i heard a story like that a long time ago... but instead if just getting rid of it they relocated it to the center of the roof on some sort if pillar... supposedly it took a few hours of the hawks landing where the nest was for them to figure out where it was now... and the better part of the story is that the residents and city officals wanted it totally removed but the owners just decided to try to relocate it....

so not all thoes rich yuppy sob's are bad..... just most of them...

Double J

12-09-04, 08:37 PM

Originally posted by Jayson
Also for the owner to pay someone for the removal of the nest tells me that people have likely been complaining.

I still do not understand what there is to complain about? An "unsightly nest?" A little bit of mouse meat on the sidewalk on occasion? If anything, I should be launching complaints about their ridiculous gas-guzzling SUV's that are choking up other people's air with their emissions. Going back to the mouse meat, there are far more unsanitary messes on sidewalks such as GARBAGE.. and lots of it. Not to mention used condoms, diapers, and lots of other nice clean things. There are tons of road killed pigoens and squirrels as well. And are mice not an unwelcome problem? Anything that preys upon mice would be welcome in my neighborhood. If a little bit of mouse fur and a few twigs on the sidewalk on occasion are the "problem"... I'd welcome that. There are far more disgusting an unnatural things on the streets in NYC.

In my opinion, if anyone would actually sue for a branch falling onto their head from a bird's nest (I am sure there are many), they deserve to get as many branches dropped on their heads as it takes for them to realize they are being ridiculous. The things people sue for are beyond belief. People are so terribly in need of someone to blame for their problems, when in fact it is often themselves. If humans would promote the existence of proper habitat for these animals, people would not have these ""problems"" in the first place.

Brent Strande

12-09-04, 11:11 PM

What if the entire nest fell? It isn't nestled in some tree, it's hanging off the edge of a building, how structurally sound is it?

Theres a lot of questions here to be asking before going overboard...

What if that nest fell and killed your girlfriend, or your mom?

People need to understand that it most likely wasn't a deliberate attack against mother nature

Double J

12-09-04, 11:22 PM

Originally posted by Brent Strande
What if the entire nest fell? It isn't nestled in some tree, it's hanging off the edge of a building, how structurally sound is it?......
......What if that nest fell and killed your girlfriend, or your mom?

Let's be realistic here. A nest falling out of a tree and killing someone? Somehow I don't think so. If this is the logic for removing the nest, then the municpal government should remove all of the automobiles in NYC for all of the car accidents that occur every hour.
Without a doubt, the nest was removed the nest for no good reason. People spray their lawns with pesticides and herbicides for no good reason..... but they still do it because they beleive it is "necessary." I think this is the case here.

JAdkins2451

12-09-04, 11:25 PM

No it wasnt in a tree, but they did say there were metal spikes which they had to remave also. Which to me sounds like the nest was intertwined with the spike, suggesting that it was secure there. And letting it stay there for 9 years and then just ripping apart there home is completley unfair. just my opinion

Slannesh

12-10-04, 12:16 AM

I think relocating the nest instead of just destroying it would have been a better PR plan, but many species of raptors won't touch a nest again that had been interfered with by humans.

There's a family of some type of hawk that lives in Downtown Calgary and nests in several of the buildings... I do believe that they are an endangered species so their nests can't be moved... just an interesting sidenote.

Removing the nest i'm sure was the result of multiple complaints and probably a couple of threatened lawsuits. Yes, it sucks that they destroyed the nest after 9 years but remember that there were no eggs or chicks in it. The hawks will just rebuild elsewhere so it's not some big ecological disaster that some people are making it out to be. As for the danger of falling debris, keep in mind that even a small object falling from a height can do some pretty major damage. Now i'm sure a twig falling 12 stories probably won't kill anyone :) But something a fair bit bigger could easily render someone unconcious or dead i'm sure.

~editted for spelling :)

Will

12-10-04, 12:29 AM

There's a family of some type of hawk that lives in Downtown Calgary and nests in several of the buildings... I do believe that they are an endangered species so their nests can't be moved... just an interesting sidenote.

Peregrine Falcons, I believe....

noname

12-10-04, 01:17 AM

Wow...people astound me. First of all, for whoever said that the city was no place for animals...darn right! But who was here first? Mother nature certainly did not create high rises, and paved streets. I think, given that WE are the ones invading their territory, that it is our responsibilty to protect the animal population, and give them the respect that they deserve. These people clearly lack empathy and compassion...I don't know who I'm more sad for, the hawks, or these obnoxious businessmen/women.

djc3674

12-10-04, 01:27 AM

The problem here is the way it was handled. I mean these hawks were flying around for a while totally confused as to where the hell their home went. Imagine taking an overnight trip, you come back home, your about to pull in the driveway but low and behold a f**ck*n tornado took out your home. What a terrible feeling that must be. These hawks felt something similar.

They should have done something long long ago. I mean carcasses didnt just start falling from the sky after nine years. I can understand having to prevent injury (if indeed there was that kind of potential) but it is quite clear there wasn't much of a plan in place before they just destroyed the nest.

Slannesh

12-10-04, 01:40 AM

There is such a thing as over empathizing as well.

I really doubt that the hawks were distraught over their home being destroyed like a person would be. Look at almost any fire victim who has insurance... is it the bigscreen TV they care about? Hell no. It's the photo album from their wedding or Grandma's necklace that got left to them in the will. I'm sorry but animals just don't have that sort of attachment to physical things like humans do.

Sure they're doing the hawk equivalent of "WTF is my house?!?" But i'm sure before long they'll be building a nest elsewhere and by this time next year they'll have long ago forgotten about the other nest.

~edit:

Oh and Will, I think yer right.. Peregrine Falcons sounds correct.

djc3674

12-10-04, 02:32 AM

......directly from the article!

"They're circling around and around," said Lincoln Karim, 43, one of the hawks' many champions. "They are frantic. They keep landing on the spot where the nest was."

Ofcourse they do not feel the exact same thing as humans do, but obviously they felt like something was terribly wrong. That was the hawks home for a very long time.
Obviously, I was over emphasizing, but only to put it in terms that us humans can relate to. Believe me, I am far from the green environmentalist, tree hugging type of person, but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that the hawks (quite beautiful I may add) were treated basically like the bums on the street in NYC.

J.J.

12-10-04, 03:22 AM

Aww... a tear fell from my eye.
I love hawks.
Bastards....

Slannesh

12-10-04, 03:34 AM

"They're circling around and around," said Lincoln Karim, 43, one of the hawks' many champions. "They are frantic. They keep landing on the spot where the nest was."

And i'm sure Mr Karim is an expert in avian behavior as well. :rolleyes:

I agree that outright destroying the nest was a crappy thing to do, but as I said in my other post it's entirely possible that this is a species of hawk that won't touch a nest that has been relocated. Not to mention that a 50 square foot nest is roughly 8' across. Not really the sort of thing you can move in 1 piece off of the side of a building.

Do I feel sorry for the Hawks that I they have to build a new next? Yeah, of course I do. Is it some major tragedy that a probably common bird nest was destroyed and they have to relocate? Not really. I'm sure trees with birds nests or squirrel dens get chopped down all the time, there's no big public outcry then is there?

Could the situation have been handled better? No doubt. But should they have gone to the time and expense of hiring a large crane and closing down 5th Ave NYC for several hours to move a 50 square foot nest? Come on let's be a LITTLE realistic :)

djc3674

12-10-04, 04:39 AM

And i'm sure Mr Karim is an expert in avian behavior as well

Well, it doesn't take an avian expert to look up in the sky and see hawks circling what used to be their old nest.

No, I don't think they should have tried to relocate the nest. As it was stated, the hawks would have abandoned it anyway. They should have just left it as it was. If it were such a hazard it wouldn't of been there for 9 years. Unfortunately, the people that were doing the b*tching were probably people with power/money and that is why it was destroyed. Atleast they didn't kill them. I'm quite sure they will be just fine. They will just go build another nest above another building and live there until that home too is discarded like trash.

Just a thought, but maybe they could have caught both hawks, tagged them, then relocated them far into the mountains where they could have lived like country hawks instead of city hawks..lol

djc3674

12-10-04, 04:56 AM

.....an interesting update. I almost guessed it right. The hawks did build a nest on top of another building, but this time they are welcome. So far it's seems like a happy ending to an unfortunate beginning.

http://www.nydailynews.com/front/story/260783p-223242c.html

joey

12-10-04, 08:44 AM

;) yeah!

dia

12-10-04, 09:23 AM

I remember watching a program on that pair a few months ago. They raised chicks and the little ones even learned to fly from that nest. Apparently the only pair that's ever bred [ever lived?] in New York.
A real shame that that nest was taken down.
Ehehe, I like how the birds are put in a very positive light where the co-op owners are the bad guys or should I say " villain[s] in ... avian eviction"

latazyo

12-10-04, 09:46 AM

dude, a nest falling from a tree won't hurt you?

the thing was 50 square feet

anyways...I agree totally with Slannesh

djc3674

12-10-04, 08:48 PM

dude...metal spikes were holding it in. The nest had been there for 9 years. I doubt it would have all of a sudden just fell.

What's done is done. The hawks are rebuilding there nest, they will be just fine. It's just kinda sad how it was done though, that's all.

Brent Strande

12-11-04, 12:22 AM

Perhaps the Hawks should have been served a 3 day eviction notice?

marisa

12-11-04, 12:25 AM

I am sure the real problem was the fact the nests probably constantly get larger. I am sure in year one, the nest wasn't nearly as large as in year 9 and so on. Eventually one can imagine debris would start falling....etc....even a very small object dropped from enough height can kill a person. They will rebuild there, or somewhere else.

Marisa

joey

12-11-04, 10:29 AM

Originally posted by marisa
I ...etc....even a very small object dropped from enough height can kill a person.
Marisa

If that were the case then people would be dropping dead all the time from birds pooping on them. LOL

Hawks build generally build large nests to begin with and they are made up of many small twigs. I seriously doubt anyone could actually be killed by these twigs or from any other debri that might fall from these nests. There are many different types of raptors living in NY and you ~never~ hear of any instances of anyone getting hurt by their presence.

RepTylE

12-11-04, 11:08 AM

Originally posted by joey
If that were the case then people would be dropping dead all the time from birds pooping on them. LOL

Well sparrow or even pigeon poop is one thing but hawks crap a wee bit bigger than that. Imagine a 5 lb+ robin spattering your head.
If these hawks are like other raptors ie ospreys and eagles, they would add to the nest year after year. I'm sure that the reason that they were accepted so long was because they would deter pigeons from perching on the building but the size of the nest got to be too massive and was perceived as a hazard.

marisa

12-11-04, 11:27 AM

"Poop" is not a solid object. A twig is. I just think some people need to be a little more realistic.

Marisa

Brent Strande

12-11-04, 11:56 AM

... or if a chunk of the nest fell.

i.e. more than a single twig.

djc3674

12-11-04, 09:14 PM

Well, it seems like it was only one "bigwig" that was the cause of kicking the hawks off the building. BUT...it looks like they are going to build them another nest on top of the same building.

The "bigwig's" 7 hr old son was getting threats...that's a way overboard imo.....

http://www.nydailynews.com/front/story/261055p-223484c.html

latazyo

12-11-04, 09:42 PM

yep, some people get irrational when it comes to animals

Sean_.E.

12-11-04, 10:22 PM

Extremely well put Double J, I couldn't agree with you more.

We, as human beings, seem to think that we are separate from nature. When in fact, we are very much a part of it. We destroy eco-systems and natural habitats, putting up building and laying down roads, so that we can build our homes, factories and cities. We then expect that all the organisms that lived there before us will just completely disappear from that area and "go somewhere else". This "somewhere else" being a place called "nature", in which many of us expect to be able to view these animals. It is great to see them ("in nature"), just as long as they stay away from OUR homes, OUR land, OUR cities, OUR man made "utopia".

My point is that; even though we may live somewhere, it doesn’t mean that “somewhere” belongs entirely to us. It belongs, just as much, to every single organism that naturally lives (or should live) there. We need to start to realize that we too are part of nature, whether we like it or not. I mean, we can hide behind as many walls as we like, build as many houses and cities as we like but no matter what we do, we will ALWAYS be a part of the earth. Because of this, we need learn to live in harmony with THE REST of the earth (much easier said than done), as everything we do effects the environment, which effects us.

OUR ACTIONS--->EFFECT ENVIRONMENT--->EFFECTS US

Anyway… that’s just my big long rant, my opinion.

Sean E.