Milksnake ID

[BrianS]

Hey you all, the local pet store has this beautiful Milksnake I'm thinking about getting. The only thing is that I don't know which species. It looks like eithre a Pueblan or Sinoloan. Anybody know?
http://tinypic.com/vce39

Oh and thanx in advanced:D

[Siretsap]

sinaloae?

[Will]

It's not a Pueblan. I would guess Nelson or Sinaloan...?

Edit:

After taking a closer look and dragging out the trusty milksnake book, I'll throw my vote to the Sinaloan side as well. Someone out there probably knows whether it's a nelsoni, or sinaloe, but it's definitely not a Pueblan...

[BrianS]

I was thinking Sinaloan myself but so many look so much alike that it's hard to tell. (at least for me):eek:

[Siretsap]

you could count the number of bands on it

[BrianS]

How many bands does a Sinaloan have?

[thunder]

definatly not a pueblan. from the band spacing, i would say it is very likely a sinaloan, tho it could possibly be a nelsoni; they are very similar. however, it really looks like a sinaloan, and they are the most common milksnake sold in generic pet stores.

[BrianS]

How do you tell the difference between a Nelson and Sinaloan?

[Will]

From Milksnakes, W.P. Mara:

Regarding Nelson's:

"It is a remarkably striking snake, bearing more than a passing resemblance to the immensley popular Sinaloan Milksnake, L.t. sinaloae, the main differance being that the red rings are only about twice the length of black and whites, whereas in sinaloae they are about three times as wide". Page 13.

It's a basic book, and it has very short sections on most milks, but judging from that brief description, I would lean towards Sinaloan...

[BrianS]

Originally posted by Will
From Milksnakes, W.P. Mara:

Regarding Nelson's:

"It is a remarkably striking snake, bearing more than a passing resemblance to the immensley popular Sinaloan Milksnake, L.t. sinaloae, the main differance being that the red rings are only about twice the length of black and whites, whereas in sinaloae they are about three times as wide". Page 13.

It's a basic book, and it has very short sections on most milks, but judging from that brief description, I would lean towards Sinaloan...

Yeah from the sound of it I am leaning toward Sinaloan myself now

[Will]

A full body shot would probably make it alot easier to tell though, it's kinda hard to tell only being able to see the first few triads...

[SerpentLust]

I'm voting Sinaloan as well. Regardless, very gorgeous snake :)

[Manitoban Herps]

i would say it is a sini..99% sure :)

[BrianS]

Is this snake worth $60? That is what it is marked as. It is 12-14 inches in length.

Oh, and many thanx to all of you who replied:)

[Manitoban Herps]

In Canada thats a great price, but in the States I'm sure you could do better. But you might be able to get a deal, and 60$ for a snake is not lots of money, but I always look for deals :)

[BrianS]

Hey you all, Ive been looking at some fotos and it also looks quite similar to the Mexican Milksnake. Any comments on this?

[Will]

I think the red bands on that guy are too wide, and the black/white bands are too thin to be an annulata.

[MarcB]

Is that your final answer? Yes, what is a sinaloan.....

[BrianS]

Originally posted by MarcB
Is that your final answer? Yes, what is a sinaloan.....
What is your opinion Marc?

[Classic]

Let's see a full body shot.

Brian
hwh

[bighillreptiles]

I would defantly say sin in my opinion and yes please show the hole snake ;Paul

[MarcB]

100% Sinaloan

[karmeleon]

I have a nelsons and this is a sinaloan for sure

[Stockwell]

Nelsoni and sinaloae are essentially the same snake. Even pure wide banded Mazatlan lines considered textbook sinaloae occasionally produce offspring with higher triad counts that would be considered Nelsoni by some . It's primarily selective breeding that has polarized the triad counts and sustained what hobbiests recognize as the traditional phenotypic differences.

So yes that snake appears to be a Sinaloan/nelsoni . The only thing that bothers me about that snake is sinaloae/nelsoni should have whitish snouts....
I don't see any white on the nose at all.... and while its certainly not an annulata, it's snout does ressemble that of annulata.
Why not post a full body pic, a head pic and a belly pic...
Sometimes ventral pattern can be quite telling.
There sure are a lot of weird looking tris around these days, makes me wonder if people are mixing and matching or the proliferation of new captive breeders are just bringing out latent aberrancies in pure lines.