Need Help!!!

[Kimo]

Ok, long story short...

Walked into a local pet store today to find a underage Sav had laid 5 eggs, all appear fertile (but could be mistaken) they are a nice vibrant white, have only a little give to their shell, anyways to the point. The store manager allowed me to take them home (free of charge) and give it my best shot and try to see what can come of it.

My question is what are the proper incubating temps/humidity should the be incubated at, and how long is the incubation period before i can see lil heads poking out?

i've tried to do a quick search on google for care sheets on breeding, but just came up with various companies selling books on the species...

so if anyone could reply back as soon as possible, i would greatly appreciate it!!

Thnx in advance

Josh

[jungleshadows]

Underage? How do you know the age of the sav, just wondering why you would say that. It has been proven monitors can lay at a young age if conditions are right. If she laid she must not be in to bad of shape.

I assume she was an import probly gravid when she came in.

Set the eggs up with a 1:1 perlite to water mix. That ratio is by weight. Use a deli dish or something similar. Bury the eggs half way. Keep the temps around 85-87. Humidity should be fine throughout with that ratio given above. If you see alot of condensation it may be to much. if the eggs swell and look to burst it is to much humidity also, if they shrivle or dent early it is too dry. It should take 150-160 days to hatch.

If the eggs were dumped and not nested they probly will go bad, even if they are fertile. If you are able post a picture of the eggs.


Good luck

[Kimo]

absolutely i can post pics of the eggs, and they were all laid right beside eachother in a pile sort of...anyways this sav couldn't have been longer than 2' WITH tail..., and it looked HORRIBLE after the ordeal, she looked half dead... give me 5 mins to take pics!

Josh

[Kimo]

Ok, here are the pics of the eggs all set up in the incubation substrate, weighed according to your given ratio 1:1 i cleaned off the eggs, "they were slightly buried under the sand) and put them in the incubator, its running at a steady temp of 85 (thnx to helix thermostat on my home made incubator) anyways, 2 of the eggs were indented (my assumption is because they were laid last night in the cage, and had been in the bone dry enviroment the sav was kept in, so hopefully the humidity now rectifys this situation... 3 however look to be in perfect condition otherwise! they were the 3 on the bottom of the clutch! also just so you know, i took them out, and placed them in the incubator the exact same way i took them, so the tops are still at the top...didnt know if it was like Leo eggs or not...hopefully everything turns out for the best, and i get a few savs out of the deal! if i get one...well its still a miracle if you ask me!

anyways let me know what you think

http://www.ssnakess.com/photopost/data/500/3646eggs-med.jpg

P.s. i candled them just to see and it looks like a nice pinkish glow inside, i am assuming this means they are indeed fertile, as this would indicate blood vessels in other lizard eggs.

[Bartman]

Ravi's book says they should be at 84, so I guess your temps are right on.

The eggs are dented, so they might just need more moisture...but id say they look good, so far. Good luck! That would be amazing to hatch out cb savannahs!

[Kimo]

well, not really CB can't say for sure, like jungleshadows said, it could have been an import, that was gravid , and just happened to deposit the eggs in the enclosure...but Captive Hatched yes! either way, i am super excited, and any hatchlings i do get, will be given away to responsible homes -1 for myself naturally hehe! either way i am stoked! now its time for me to dig up as much info as i possibly can, as i know nothing on this species. This was more of a Rescue if anything so...wish me luck, and cross your fingers.

Josh

[thunder]

awesome! five free savs!

[jungleshadows]

They look good, yes they are like gecko eggs. If you have hatched eggs before just set them up in a similar fashion. It just takes longer is all.

The size of the female doesn't strike me as odd. Seeing she had enough nutrients to lay eggs says alot. Now it is upto the pet store who has her now to support her enough to recover.

Good luck with them, if you need more info. you should check out The savanna monitor book, by Daniel Bennett. I have a few copies for sale they are signed by Daniel.

Mr. Jody Pieper (aka jungleshadows)

[crocdoc]

I'd get that book, if I were you. It's inexpensive and very good:

The Savannah Monitor Lizard: The Truth About Varanus Exanthematicus
by Daniel Bennett, Ravi Thakoordyal

As far as adding water to the substrate (should have gone perlite rather than vermiculite, but vermiculite still works), I wouldn't do anything to it for a few days. It sometimes takes a while for dented eggs to recover their shape, whereas adding water now may cause them to go in the other direction once they recover. You may even try soaking a piece of paper towel, wringing it out so it is barely damp (not wet) and laying it over the dented eggs for a day or two.

Don't put holes in the egg container, by the way. Open it once every few days for air exchange instead. Otherwise you run the risk of them all drying out. I cover my egg containers with sandwich wrap (GladWrap or SaranWrap), which keeps moisture in but allows oxygen/carbon dioxide exchange.

[crocdoc]

I forgot to mention, 2 foot total length sounds like a normal adult female to me, especially as it was wild caught.

[Kimo]

thunder: not counting the eggs before they hatch! But i was kind of like the same thing FREE EGGS! but this is a rescue operation first and foremost! if i can get the 2 to re-inflate and keep them from going bad...i will be very happy, and pleased! afterall, theres nothing like saving a few lives, that otherwise wouldn't have even had a chance in hades! wish me luck all, i will keep you all posted on events as they unfold with these 5 eggs! as to the Sav being to young, i beleive you when you say "its not surprising " Jody, it just struck me as odd, compaired to all the other monitors i have seen, she just looked really small in comparison! my male bearded dragon (whom is an adult) was only slightly smaller...but heres hoping they pull through, regardless, including the mother!

Josh

[mbayless]

Hi Josh,
Like Jody and DK say, get Bennett's book. It explains these animals well. Furthermore, as Jody also said, "How did/do you know this animnal is underage? Ive seen V. exanthematicus drop eggs at 12 inches total length!! So a 2-foot animal is certaibly capable of doing this, perhaps not as many eggs as a 3-4 footer, but certainly perfectly viable female....

Keep at 85-89, 90% humidity, and ~170 days or so they should hatch out.

Good luck,
markb

[lonewulf]

Wow .. best of luck to you in the hatching .. if you need homes for one of them keep me in mind lol

keep us up to date on the progress this is interesting ...

[Kimo]

as i stated above, i actually know nothing about these monitors, so i was baseing my opinion on past viewing experiences of larger specimens, never before had i seen one this small, so for an uneducated person on Savs i'd say my guess wasn't that bad, but now i know. Either way as far as vermiculite goes, i have been told i dont know how many times by various breeders that Vermiculite was better than Perlite, but if you guys think i should switch it over, i can do that no problem!, Just for the record once again, i know NOTHING about this species, but would like to do my best to see these 5 eggs hatch out, so im more than happy to receive all and any comments or suggestions on how to properly incubate these eggs. As far as the paper towel over the eggs goes, i'll try that in 2 days if i dont see any improvment on their current status, as i'm fearful of over hydrating, and giving bacteria/mold a chance to get at the eggs. Also for the lid, after reading the above post, that situation has been rectified! thnx again for everyones help! i really really appreciate it! and the success of this project will be in thanx to all of you! for educating me, and helping along the way!

Now, what about light during incubation? i know in chameleon eggs they have a startle reflex that can kill the developing embryos, is it the same with this species? should they be kept in the dark? or does it matter at all?

and as to the book, Jody how much do they cost, and can i get a copy to canada?

thnx again

Josh

[crocdoc]

Originally posted by Kimo
Either way as far as vermiculite goes, i have been told i dont know how many times by various breeders that Vermiculite was better than Perlite, but if you guys think i should switch it over, i can do that no problem!

Monitor breeders or python breeders? Don't change it now that they are set up, but in future (should you ever breed them yourself) go with perlite, as it remains drier to the touch while holding moisture well - monitor eggs don't do well with water touching the shell, apparently.


Originally posted by Kimo
i'm fearful of over hydrating, and giving bacteria/mold a chance to get at the eggs.

Do be fearful of over hydrating (especially at the later stages of incubation) but not for the reasons you've mentioned. Mould and bacteria can only destroy compromised eggs, healthy eggs having a natural resistance to both. In other words, if mould and bacteria attack, it's because the eggs are already dying rather than because there is too much moisture in there (which, however, may be why the eggs are dying).

Originally posted by Kimo
Now, what about light during incubation? i know in chameleon eggs they have a startle reflex that can kill the developing embryos, is it the same with this species? should they be kept in the dark? or does it matter at all?

If you're using light as a heat source in your incubator, use red globes (I use 15W incandescent bulbs used for children's parties) rather than white. It's okay to have a white light that you can switch on to view the eggs, though, as long as you remember to switch it off after you close the incubator door.

[Kimo]

thanx a million Crocdoc for those answers

as for the light, i was just curious, i dont actually use a light to heat the incubator, i use heatpads hooked up to a helix thermostat to control the heat

as for the vermiculite, i didnt mean in regards to any paticular breeder, just all round heard it was better, it's what i used for my Leo eggs with no problem, but i will keep the perilite in mind for future refrence! thnx again!

Josh

[crocdoc]

Vermiculite has been in use for ages, which is part of the reason for its popularity - 'if it ain't broke, why fix it?'

Many people that have been breeding reptiles for years and have always used vermiculite mix water in by feel, rather than measuring it, knowing what feels right for success. In those cases Perlite takes some getting used to, for at the same water:substrate mix it is deceptively dry to the touch. When I incubated my first lot of monitor eggs last year a good friend felt the substrate and was convinced that I was dehyrdrating the eggs. He had me in a panic, too, until I found out he had only ever used vermiculite.

[Kimo]

but i shouldn't switch them over to perlite?

i'd much prefer to do everything 100% by the books (or what works) as i'd hate to waste these eggs!

Josh

[crocdoc]

Vermiculite works, I'd probably leave them be.

[Kimo]

ok perfect!

thnx again for all the help!

Josh