new setup for uroplatus

[silent_truth]

I recently decided that I will be getting a pair of uroplatus. Not sure if it will be fimbriatus or lineatus or sikorae, but one of those. I just started this tank setup last night and finished it off this morning. Would love to hear what others think of it.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v504/adam2383/Pets/urotank4.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v504/adam2383/Pets/urotank3.jpg


Thanks,

-Adam

[Manitoban Herps]

Looks good, but I would add one branch near the top going horizontal.

I would go with some giant leafys,U. fimbriatus

[Ptindy]

Hey, that looks awesome! I would get a pair of sikorae for in there!

Mike

[beanersmysav]

Real nice! What size tank is that? I want some Uroplats. so I'm just wondering about what size I'd need.

[silent_truth]

Thanks all!

beaner, the tank is a 30 gallon tall. I think it will suit a pair of uroplatus perfectly and it's nice because of the tall viewing space.

-Adam

[CDN-Cresties]

Looks great, nice job.

[beanersmysav]

Thanks a ton. I was planning on getting a 100 gal. for 2 uros. Glad I heard I could use smaller lol. I'd still like to put a group in a 100 gallon when I get the room but if I can use a 30 tall for a pair that sounds like a plan and a half to me

[Ptindy]

If it's only a 30 tall Fimbriatus are outta the question for options. They would be cramped.

Mike

[silent_truth]

beaner, I am a believer that to a certain degree, tank size "guidelines" can be "adjusted" depending upon certain factors (ie. hidespots, visual barriers, proper temp gradients, etc). However, if you want to play it safe, do as Mike said and go larger if you're going to house a pair of fimbriatus. I just feel that if one uses space to its highest efficiency, the actual size of the tank, can be "played with" once one has a degree of understanding about the animals they are keeping. Maybe this is an unspoken truth that some reptile keepers choose not to mention, or maybe it's just me, but I will update you on what kind of uroplatus I end up with and how they adapt to this tank over an extended period of time. No matter what other factors play a role, I believe the overall health of the animals dictates whether or not a suitable environment has been provided.

Now, after trying to decipher what I just typed, if you're not sure what I said as I am not sure myself, just go with caresheet guidelines for the particular species. :)

-Adam

[Double J]

Fabulous tank! I bet some phants would lok fabulous in there! Dart frogs would be very happy as well :)
But.... if I were you, I would go with some sikorae.. I just love the look of them relative to the other speceis you mentioned. I think they are a little more forgiving than the other species as well baed on what friends who keep these speceis have told me.
Whatever you choose, I am sure they will thrive in that vivarium. Those calatheas are great plants. I use them in number of my vivaria. They are hearty, do not grow too fast, and they look great!
All the best of luck with your new Uroplatus.. whatever you go with.

[silent_truth]

Thanks very much Double J! I think you're right, it's going to come down to either phants or sikorae. I love the look of sikorae as well, but having phants would create a "little world" appearance due to their small size, making them secondary to the tank environment itself. Much better than having one or two large animals always visible in the tank I think. But that mossy look of sikorae.....hmmm.....lol.......tough decision.

-Adam

[silent_truth]

Well, I actually picked up 1.1 uroplatus phantasticus and they are settling in very nicely. I will get picks up once they have fully acclimated to their new home.

[CDN-Cresties]

Congrats, I cant wait to see some pics!

[little_dragon_]

The perfect branches I've found for my phants (and you might think I'm crazy) are dried rose branches. They are nice and thin, strong and have very nice colours similar to phants. what I do is soak them and peel off the thorns. But if you can't find a dead rose bush thin branchs are great. Put them throughout the tanks and they'll have their own highway to get around the tank and hunt.

[silent_truth]

that's a good idea with the thin branches...I'll have to see what I can find. Thanks!

[alive]

looking good ~ some lucky uroplatus would have a good times there~

hope it is not too hard when it comes to cleaning ~lol

[silent_truth]

shouldn't be too hard to clean, just gotta wipe the leaves and tank walls off and check the substrate for any fallen feces. We'll see how it goes when I try it the first time.....lol.

-Adam

[Double J]

Oak leaves on the bottom will look fabulous as well...... and they will make the hunt for phants a little more interesting. But isn't that part of the fun?

[silent_truth]

Thanks Double J! I will definitely be looking to "accessorize" the bottom portion of the tank in the near future. I may just have to combine your suggestion of leaves with the thin sticks to create a fantastic ground level environment for them. Oh, and yep, it's all part of the fun!:D

-Adam

[concept3]

U. Lineatus and U. Fimbriatus are 100% out of the question for a 30 gal. One of the smaller uroplatus would do great in their. That is big enough for 1.2 or probably 1.3 phantasticus. It looks very very good though nice enclosure.

[silent_truth]

well, I already obtained phantasticus, so no worries there. Although not to get into a "stats" debate, but I still am of the opinion that "guidelines" found online are just that, "guidelines". One learns more from personal experience and trial and error. With regards to enclosures, much can be done with space if one thinks creatively and one must take into consideration the nature of the animals being kept. How can we flat out say that it's alright to keep two or three leopard geckos (which are quite capable of attaining 10 inches or more) in a 30 gallon tank, but it's not possible to successfully keep a pair of lineatus or fimbriatus(total length 30cm - 12 inches)? (fimbriatus length obtained from http://www.faunaimportuk.com/caresheets/csleaftail.htm)

Now don't get me wrong, I am of the opinion that bigger is always better in most cases, but something is to be said for someone who dedicates a somewhat smaller habitat but effectively meets all of the criteria required by the species that they choose to keep. Obviously this should only be attempted by those that have previous experience keeping the general animal group in question (ie. geckos). So to say that size is always the most important factor when deciding upon a home for captive animals, is simply ignoring the numerous other factors that come into play. Well, now that I've typed a paragraph full, I'll just leave it at that.:)

[DragnDrop]

Originally posted by silent_truth
How can we flat out say that it's alright to keep two or three leopard geckos (which are quite capable of attaining 10 inches or more) in a 30 gallon tank, but it's not possible to successfully keep a pair of lineatus or fimbriatus(total length 30cm - 12 inches)?

Length of the gecko is only part of it. The big deciding factor is their behaviour. Leos just saunter around, look for food, curl up and sleep until tomorrow. They may or may not decide to investigate the area, they may or may not decide to climb a rock or stump. They certainly don't expect to jump from 20 feet down to another branch. Leos walk up to their prey and eat 'calmly', Uros launch themselves at their prey from up high. One of the major causes of Uro injuries is from them launching at prey and smacking themselves on the glass wall or bottom. I had a female U. lineatus fracture her neck and skull trying to dive bomb the bag of crickets I had in my hand. Leos might try to reach the bag too, but they just attempt to walk towards it, they don't take a flying leap and crash into the wall.

Uros are arboreal, used to jumping from branch to branch, sometimes 10 or 20 feet distant. They expect to be able to jump around. A 30 gallon tank for a fimbriatus isn't going to cut it, and it won't work well for a henkels either. The largest Uro I'd put into a 30 tall is a sikorae, and that's pushing it.

I used to keep my U. fimbriatus in a 'big' cage. It's almost floor to ceiling, just under 7 feet tall, 3 feet deep, 4 feet wide. The ficus they had was just over 6 feet tall. Their branches were from a flowering shrub - I just chopped half the shrub out, put it in the tank, let the leaves die off and fall to the bottom for leaf litter. The fimbriatus would hunt their crickets and roaches in the litter. It was amazing to watch them jump around in their cage, flying leaps would be more like it. After seeing them frolick around, I figure anything smaller than 100 gallons is torture for fimbriatus.

Phantasticus evolved to look like dead leaves. They're happiest with leaf litter on the floor and a lot of thin branches to hang from so they can truly imitate a leaf on a branch. They're not too happy clinging to thick branches or bark - how many dead leaves stick to a tree trunk? Check out the pictures HERE. (http://www.geocities.com/fantasyfrogs/Uroplatus.htm) You'll see how they are 'made' to disappear in the leaf litter. To keep yours happy, I would suggest a lot of thin branches and a thick covering of dead leaves. Just cut one off a shrub, put the whole thing in the tank and let them hang themselves where they feel comfy or curl up in the leaves once they drop.

[silent_truth]

Hi Hilde! I was hoping I'd get your input in this thread!

So if leaping into glass is a problem with the larger uroplatus, then wouldn't covering the walls of the enclosure with corkbark solve some of that issue? That would make it a surface that they can easily cling to and see. Just to specify my point, I am not saying I would recommend keeping large uroplatus or any animal for that matter in an inadequately sized habitat, just that use of space is as big a factor as the size of the space. This is more to address those suggestions sometimes found on caresheets that say a 12"(total length) gecko "requires" a "100 gallon" enclosure. Is a 100 gallon enclosure nice for a 12" gecko? Yes! Absolutely! Do I believe it's "required"? No. If using the space efficiently and effectively while tailoring it to the animal's natural behaviour, a knowledgeable person could very likely be successful utilizing 50 - 60 gallons even for one of the most active geckos.

Anyways, I don't want to go on and on about the use of space. Not what I wanted this thread to be about. Let's just leave it at everyone has different philosophies and approaches that they deem acceptable methods to success. However, I do respect your opinion very much as you have proven to have had much success with your reptiles. Thanks very much for your input! I will definitely be getting some small sticks and leaf litter for the bottom of the tank soon.

Thanks!

-Adam:D

[StickyToes]

I think the point Hilde was actually trying to make had nothing to do with the glass, but with the overall amount of space that large species of uroplatus require to be able to hunt successfully .... without breaking their necks. It doesn't really matter how much "surface area" you can provide, the fact of the matter is if the cage is too small it is too small!
To disregard resources of information, be it online or written, seems very irresponsible and unfair to the potential geckos that could be in your care! The difference between you and the authors is they have experience and you don't! It has taken a lot of trial and error with this genus to get the care of them right, and to disregard any information because of your own theory about keeping almost seems like a crime! Hilde has had the wonderful pleasure of seeing their hunting behaviour, and understands what the implications of what this behaviour means.

If using the space efficiently and effectively while tailoring it to the animal's natural behaviour, a knowledgeable
person could very likely be successful utilizing 50 - 60 gallons even for one of the most active geckos.
This arguement is a moot point because it is quite obvious that you aren't knowledgable or experienced with these species.

I'm not trying to get down on you, this is one of my favorite genuses of geckos and I wish everyone would be successful at keeping them, which is why I react a little more to misinformation about them even if it is on an online forum. I hope you can look at what I am saying objectively, and understand that I speak from the point of view of someone who does have this experience "under his belt", so to speak.
I'm glad you decided to go with phantasticus (next to pietschmanni they are my favorite species), and I wish you all the best of success with keeping them. They should feel nice and comfy after you have made your modifications. I also hope that you try your hand at breeding them! There can never be too many of these little beauties floating around!
If you have any questions about care feel free to e-mail me! :D
I love talkin bout uroplatus if I have the time! :rolleyes:

[silent_truth]

Well, I agree, I don't have much experience with uroplatus. This is why I am not saying that I know something other than what is stated in some caresheets as fact, but only that I don't take information simply because someone puts it on a website. Instead of seeing this as a "crime", it is the more responsible approach. This is also why I stated that I respect Hilde's opininion and that I would put her advice into action.

I think we in the herp hobby take internet information as "gospel" in this day and age. This can be very beneficial, but it can also create a stagnant environment as far as progress is concerned. The people that are on the forefront of how to manage uroplatus and other more difficult species, probably do not spend their days searching the web for caresheets. They are likely taking the "hands on" approach, learning what works and what doesn't and what works even better for themselves.

In the past, I have always refrained from stating opinions that may be somewhat contrary to the strict "code of conduct" of a herper in the internet community, but I thought that this one point would maybe shed light on a slightly alternate perspective. No worries, I won't bring up anything else that everybody doesn't agree with.

Sorry. Thanks for your post though.

-Adam

[StickyToes]

Like I said...I'm not trying to get down on you for what you have said. And I definitely agree with you about internet info and the possibility of misinformation. There is also value in doing it for yourself and developing your own methods, but in this particular instance your opinion on sizes could lead to a fatal error in keeping. I'm just speaking from years of personal experience, as well as being an observer to countless discussions about other people's experiences with keeping them. In this instance you don't need to take a hands on approach to learning for yourself because others before you already have.
I think that having the guts to post something that may be controversial is very worthwhile! it got me to actually voice my opinion instead of just lurking! :D
Take care
James

[spidergecko]

I find that with Uroplatus waste so difficult to clean, live plants seems a better choice. My group(s) poop on the walls, on the leaves, on the floor ... . There is no way I can clean all of it to avoid bacteria. This is the reason I prefer live plants. At least with live plants, some of that waste I miss is removed for me. Desert geckos drop waste and it dries up, easy to collect. Uroplatus vivs are always too moist and the waste is squishy (and smelly).

[spidergecko]

Oh wait, are those silk-sceen plants or live in your viv?

[DragnDrop]

Originally posted by silent_truth
No worries, I won't bring up anything else that everybody doesn't agree with.

No no nonooooo.... that's the wrong attitude. :)
Progress comes from discussion. If we both have different opinions and discuss them, we'll eventually get on the right path. If nobody dares mention an idea that's against the accepted norm, how are we going to improve our methods? With Uroplatus it's still a new game. There are so many unknowns with these species that we have barely scratched the surface of proper husbandry, and breeding is even less well understood.
Post your ideas, let's discuss them and come up with new and improved versions. Speculation + first hand knowledge + debate and discussion = improved lives for our geckos.

Nobody in this thread jumped on you, so don't feel you were being looked down on. We just gave our side, you gave your side, all have valid points.

If we had suddenly stopped mentioning things that were against the accepted norm half a million years ago, we'd all still be living in caves, hoping and praying for lightning to strike a tree, since we all knew that's the only way to start a fire, right?

[silent_truth]

Thanks James and Hilde for understanding. I too like to discuss information that may further everyone's understanding of a particular species or practice in the hobby.

I did have a question though, that I didn't phrase like I wanted to in a previous post. Hilde, do you think it's a possibility that your uroplatus leapt into the glass wall because they couldn't see it? or is it because they just couldn't avoid it due to a smaller enclosure? I'm curious because you mentioned that they went after a bag of crickets that you were holding outside of the enclosure.

And I just went outside now to an "umbrella tree" and got a whole bunch of twigs. They are currently sterilizing and when they are done I'll be sure to wash them and add them to the enclosure! Then I'll have to post more pics!:D