Fowler's Toad

[alive]

Hi ~ anyone is working with Fowler's Toad.

I am living in Toronto area and would like to have a Fowler's Toad

Any place I can buy them?

thanks!

[Removed_2815]

It is illegal to collect them in Ontario and it is illegal to own them in Ontario. They are a Species at Risk and are designated as threatened in Ontario.
Fowler's Toad (http://www.speciesatrisk.gc.ca/search/speciesDetails_e.cfm?SpeciesID=281)
Ryan M Bolton

[alive]

OK~

Anyone works with toad?

I would like to keep some North American Native Toads~

Thanks

[RepTylE]

My advice to you is to do a web search for CLUE and look into getting one. Just about any native species that you care to mention has protected status. If you need help in order to break Ontario laws then I'm afraid you are in the wrong forum.

[Double J]

Alive, there are a number of established species in the pet trade that are far more ecologically responsible than owning a native toad, especially a Bufo fowleri.
Keeping a pet amphibian is an incredible experience, and reminds us that there is more to life than the confines of the concrete urban jungle.
Below are a few species you should look into if you would like to get yourself a pet.

Horned frogs (aka pacman frogs): Ceratophrys sp.
Fire belly toads: Bombina orientalis
Green Tree frogs: Hyla cinerea

The above species are fairly inexpensive, rather hardy (especially the fire belly toad), and make fairly good beginner amphibians. My personal favorite of the three is the fire belly toad, as they are very versatile in terms of the setups you can have for them. From what can read from your post though, I think you would particularly enjoy a pacman frog.
A great book to pick up is Frogs Toads and Treefrogs by R.D. Bartlett. It is published by Barrons and is around 12 dollars. This is the best book for first time frog keepers. A great book to accompany it is Newts and Salamanders by Frank Indiviglio. Though this book focusses on caudates, about 65% percent of the book can be applied to frog keeping such as tank style setup information, food, and diseases and treatment. Again, this book is around 12 dollars and is also published by Barrons.
Good luck, and research research research. Again, theere are plenty of great amphibs already on the market that make far more responsible pets than keeping native Canadian species.

[alive]

Not all the american native toad has protected status~

I did my research~ there are American, East American, West American, South American, and Centeral American toad.

Not all of the are in danger, in fact some of them are in large population.

FYI RepTylE , I am not looking for help to break the law, so shut u ho! AND i do have a CLUE of what i am getting into! There are cb hognose snakes on the markets, and they are protected too! I could get myself a CB one~

Double J~ thanks for your info~ I do have experience with keeping toad, and I think native american toads are not difficult to be cared. I am looking for CB one~ that's why I am asking if anyone is working with any native toads.

[Removed_2815]

Originally posted by alive
There are cb hognose snakes on the markets, and they are protected too! I could get myself a CB one~

I guess your "research" didn't extend to Heterodon as there are no CB Eastern Hog-nosed Snakes in the Ontario market because they are designated as threatened by COSEWIC. Nice try...
Ryan

[thunder]

i have in the past kept several toad species including some native to north america. i especially enjoyed working with gulf coast toads, because of their good size (like a fist) and ease of care. they are also very long lived. another north american species that i would reccomend is the green toad, which is slightly more difficult (cuz u hafta feed it pinheads), but is a very attractively colored toad. i am sure that if you do a search you can find someone selling these species.

[alive]

Originally posted by RMBolton
I guess your "research" didn't extend to Heterodon as there are no CB Eastern Hog-nosed Snakes in the Ontario market because they are designated as threatened by COSEWIC. Nice try...
Ryan

I am here to ask for friendly advice, not here for the no good picking nonhelping flame ball throwing~
I am here to ask for advice on toads, and I just use the hognose as an example of CB native snake shows up on the market place.

Thank nothing ^^

[alive]

Originally posted by thunder
i have in the past kept several toad species including some native to north america. i especially enjoyed working with gulf coast toads, because of their good size (like a fist) and ease of care. they are also very long lived. another north american species that i would reccomend is the green toad, which is slightly more difficult (cuz u hafta feed it pinheads), but is a very attractively colored toad. i am sure that if you do a search you can find someone selling these species.

Thanks for the heads up~ i will keep my eyes open and fingers crossed ~

yea~ good size toad are really cool~
I like the grey/dark marking toad ~ so I will pass the green toad

thanks for the advice again~ !

[Removed_2815]

Originally posted by alive
I am here to ask for friendly advice, not here for the no good picking nonhelping flame ball throwing~
I am here to ask for advice on toads, and I just use the hognose as an example of CB native snake shows up on the market place.

Thank nothing ^^
Relax bud, there was no "no good picking nonhelping flame ball throwing" from me; just correcting your misinformation. Show me one source of CB Eastern Hog-nosed Snakes in Ontario. The fact is there are none. I was toying with you somewhat because I knew from the beginning that you were confusing Westerns with Easterns; Westerns (H. nasicus) are not native, Easterns (H. platirhinos) are - any CB Hog-nosed snake that you've seen available in Ontario is a Western, that's why I replied (because you were using it as some kind of defense to justify your desire to illegally collect a Fowler's toad).
If you had, in fact, done your research as you claim, then this post asking for Fowler's toads would not exist; as you would have discovered in your research that it is illegal to own them in Ontario.
Best of luck in your search, there have been some good suggestions here.
Regards,
Ryan

[Removed_2815]

Originally posted by alive
There are cb hognose snakes on the markets, and they are protected too! I could get myself a CB one~
You should note that even if you were able to locate a CB E. Hog-nosed snake produced by someone where E. Hog-nosed snakes aren't protected (because you wouldn't find a CB Eastern in Ontario), it is still illegal to own one in Ontario - regardless of whether or not it is CB or WC, it's all the same, you cannot own any of Ontario's protected animals.
Best,
Ryan

[alive]

I know~ but if we look at our collection of herp, it's not hard to find one that is somewhat protected by laws.

That's why now I am looking for a CB one now

Fowler toad could be from USA~ ^^
There are other toads originate from North American, so I ask if anyone is working with any other kinds of toads.

Thanks for the hognose Ed. Isn't westerns hog ENDANGERED and protected by the laws too?

[Removed_2815]

Again, even if you were to obtain a CB Fowler's toad from the USA you cannot legally own it in Ontario because it is protected (the laws aren't only there to protect against collection from the wild, they're also in place to prevent anyone from owning a protected species). There are no ways around this, no matter where the toad came from, you cannot have a Fowler's toad in Ontario - that's really all there is to it.

There are no laws in place for Western Hog-nosed Snakes in Ontario because they are not native - their range does not extend into Ontario. There may be areas in their range where they are endangered but there are healthy populations throughout their range (just like there are healthy populations of Fowler's toads in the US - the term endangered is not a universal term, just because Spiny Softshell turtles, for example, are threatened in Ontario does not mean they are threatened everywhere in their range, in fact they are quite common in many parts of their range).
So, no, Western Hog-nosed snakes have no protection in Ontario - there is no need because they are not native.
Cheers,
Ryan

[CamHanna]

Ontario has two native species of toad, the Eastern American Toad (Bufo americanus americanus) and the Fowler's Toad (Bufo fowleri). Both these species are off limits, regardless of their origin. They may be kept in provinces OTHER THAN ONTARIO.

In Ontario, as far as I know, every other species of toad is legal. I have seen Southern Toads, Oak Toads, Marine Toads and Green Toads all for sale in Ontario. Perhaps a similar, yet legal species, would be a better choice.

If you ARE NOT in Ontario then you can likely have all the Fowler's Toads you like.

Good Luck
Cam

[Manitoban Herps]

Originally posted by RMBolton
(you wouldn't find a CB Eastern in Ontario)

I find that hard to beleive, someone could catch a pair breed them and sell the babys or someone could buy 1.1 easterns and breed them. But the point is you can not keep fowler toads in Ontario for sure, if anyone knows it, it is RMBolton :D

[Removed_2815]

Originally posted by Manitoban Herps
I find that hard to beleive, someone could catch a pair breed them and sell the babys or someone could buy 1.1 easterns and breed them.
Eastern Hog-nosed Snakes are also designated as threatened (http://www.speciesatrisk.gc.ca/search/speciesDetails_e.cfm?SpeciesID=301) by COSEWIC in Ontario. No one in their right mind would keep an E. Hog-nosed Snake in Ontario as there is way more heat on them then Fowler's toads (a conviction was recently laid on a man who killed two radio-tagged E. Hog-nosed Snakes in Ontario; so there is now precedent that the courts will prosecute).
In the many many years that I have been a part of the internet herp community I have never seen a CB Eastern Hog-nosed Snake offered for sale in Ontario. They make horrible captives and they are illegal, you'd never be able to sell the offspring without advertising and as soon as you advertise I'd make it a personal mission to see that person is brought up on every charge possible.
And you can't buy 1.1 Easterns and breed them in Ontario either, that's just as illegal as taking one from the wild and breeding it (the law makes no distinction).
These laws are a good thing. We shouldn't look at it like some bureaucrats are trying to take away all of our fun; these laws are in place so that these species continue to exist in Ontario.
Cheers,
Ryan

[Manitoban Herps]

Thats interesting, good to know....what kind of charges happened to the man. I don't like someone like that being charged enless they did it to be mean to a snake, b/c EHS look like rattlers which also live in ONT so he may have got confused and was scared.

Was that the case?

[RepTylE]

well killing a snake that was no harm to anyone could be construed as being mean. He won't even have the option of claiming that he thought it was a massasauga rattler since they are protected too.

[rwg]

The maximum fines for an individual owning a protected species is in the tens of thousands of dollars...maybe 50k. For a company (pet store, importer etc) it's something like 300,000. I may be off a little bit. I looked it up recently, but I'm too lazy to do it again. That's a lot of scratch to be out for owning an ugly brown amphibian. I wonder if a breeder constitutes a company.

Roy

[alive]

Originally posted by CamHanna
Ontario has two native species of toad, the Eastern American Toad (Bufo americanus americanus) and the Fowler's Toad (Bufo fowleri). Both these species are off limits, regardless of their origin. They may be kept in provinces OTHER THAN ONTARIO.

In Ontario, as far as I know, every other species of toad is legal. I have seen Southern Toads, Oak Toads, Marine Toads and Green Toads all for sale in Ontario. Perhaps a similar, yet legal species, would be a better choice.

If you ARE NOT in Ontario then you can likely have all the Fowler's Toads you like.

Good Luck
Cam

Thanks for the head up~ I will keep my eyes open for the other species of toads