How 2B the best rodent supplier?

[Ann Vole]

I love rodents and to work with them for a living, I need to become the biggest and best rodent (and other animals) supplier in North America. So, what do you want in a perfect rodent supply company? Some ideas I have (for you to comment on):
* irradiated rodents so you do not have to freeze and thaw them
* blood replaced by preservative and packaged in CO2 (no freeze)
* organically and vegan fed
* a variety of marked sizes (increase by 5 or 10 grams between sizes)
* hairless and/or lubricated rodents?
* Tailless or other parts removed (like teeth?)
* different species with listed nutrient content (low fat, high protien, gut load additives)
* packaging including a "just right temperature" color change spot
* regular delivery dates with auto acount debit

Thanks for any input as I set up to be the biggest and best rodent supplier (give me about a decade ot get there).

[Ann Vole]

I forgot to mention: I want to do live rodents too.

For those who prefer live feeders, what are the advantages and dissadvantages and do you have any suggestions?

I also heard of sausage-like snake food. advantages, dissadvantages, suggestions?

[Cookie]

what will you be selling a mouse with all the trimmings?.....$19.99?

[Cookie]

sorry could'nt help myself ann..... especialy the tail crop i'm still on the floor over here! lol

[Cookie]

with all the missing parts hope it's a buy 1 get 1 free type deal

[BoidKeeper]

irradiated rodents so you do not have to freeze and thaw them
What is irradiated?
blood replaced by preservative and packaged in CO2 (no freeze)
There are enough preservatives in my food. I don't want any in my snake’s food. Besides the snakes need the blood.
* a variety of marked sizes (increase by 5 or 10 grams between sizes)
That is the norm.
* hairless and/or lubricated rodents?
Hairless makes sense, I raise them myself. But how do you lubricate a rodent and what purpose does it serve?
Tailless or other parts removed (like teeth?)
Not only would you be making way more work for yourself then you need, herps need whole food. No one is taking these parts off of for them in the wild.
different species with listed nutrient content (low fat, high protien, gut load additives)
Yup the pros are doing this now.
packaging including a "just right temperature" color change spot
Waste of time and money. No two of my snakes have the same just right temperature. This device will cost you money, which will in turn be passed on to your customers. I'm not going to pay 5 more cents a bag for rodents that have a colour-changing sticker on the bag that I won't need or use. I use my reytek to know they are ready.
regular delivery dates with auto account debit
Not something too many Canadian customers will go for but if you land some bigger accounts this could definitely be something they would go for.

My advice is to know the competition and you customer. You already started trying to find out what you customer wants and that is good. There is no need to reinvent the wheel here. Find out what the successful people are doing and start there. Check out all the websites you can and go visit these places if possible.
I've seen many people try to get going at this and fail because for one they have no idea how much work it takes. I have about 10 cages each of mice and rats and 2 rabbit cages and I can spend about 6 hrs on a Saturday to clean, water and process. One of the most important things to do when breeding rodents is to standardize the set up as much as possible. Use all the same type of cages and feeding systems and a watering system. I would also go with a commercial rodent diet pellet. They are designed for rodents and they easier to use then mixed grains etc. The other reason I've seen people fail is because they don't have a permanent facility. Unless you own the building and can dedicated it 100% to the rodents you will end up in trouble at some point. Also if you want to get really big it is a good idea to make sure that you live in a rural area where there is already farming. People in the city or suburbs won't like it if their neighbour turns their garage into the rat shack.
And finally start small and then move up over time to avoid being overwhelmed.
Best of luck,
Trevor

[Siretsap]

The best comments I can give you, is:
- Have a STEADY supply of rodents. Too many people offer large quantities, but when i comes to having them available, it's an other story.

- Make sure you decide on which market you want to supply, the public or the pet stores. Too often you will see people offer them at the same price for both parties which will lead to a war of prices.

- Make sure your stock is very good, it will only take a few people to mention that your rodents aren't good to ruin your reputation.

[Cookie]

Yes but there's not a whole lot of cash just raising rodents.... food, cleaning, time etc we have to buy/sell some reptiles as well as most breeders just find it better breeding there own then become addicted or overwhelmed, as i found out. But have offered 40 gram mice at 45 cents on this site with to no avail not one hit!... what we must add here is alot of people want those rare breed of mice called "free mice" the best i can say is breed nice healthy mice and don't sell a 6 week old mouse as an adult or class a 40 gram mouse as a jumbo mouse. Back what you sell with what you promise your customers. There's nothing like buying mice and when you get home there dirty and undersized as that's what led me to breed my own and then became an addiction that is now turning into a business selling 5000 mice a month across quebec alone to other businesses I will be selling mice to the public starting april 2005 at 45 cents an adult if 100 or more are bought. lets remember that mice can keep up to 2 yrs in the freezer and this offer will be available all the time unless feed prices skyrocket dramaticly. mice_unlimited@hotmail.com
Good luck with your business ann..

[Siretsap]

Originally posted by Cookie
selling 5000 mice a month across quebec alone to other businesses

I would like to have a list of some businesses you sell the mice to, I would like to know what they think of your rodents, I am looking to order in bulk and am looking for a steady supplier.

[Ann Vole]

Thanks for the responces so far! Some comments/clarifications:

I've never kept snakes other then injured garder snakes let loose when healed so I need to learn what my customers will want (eg tailless is not a selling feature)

BoidKeeper's comments:

irradiated is using radiation to kill all microbes in packaged food such as milk you can leave on the shelf for weeks and many pre-packaged sandwiches that stay good in convenience stores for a few weeks. Shipping frozen and perishable goods is more expencive and not needing freezing could be a selling point. The irradiation machine is very expensive so only when I get "big"

"I've seen many people try to get going at this and fail because for one they have no idea how much work it takes."
I've figured out and partially tested lots of man-hour saving techniques and most of them are an inprovement in the life of the rodents while they are at it (litter-free, auto feed, auto sort/relocate individuals, illness and pregnancy detection with precision weighing many times per day, intelectual stimulation and testing, etc)

"I would also go with a commercial rodent diet pellet."
I worked at seed cleaning plants, human and animal extruded food producition facilities, and a variety of animal farms that make thier own feeds so I can make my own (and maybe sell that too)

"The other reason I've seen people fail is because they don't have a permanent facility ... make sure that you live in a rural area"
Have a place in the country of the prairies

Sirtsap's comments:

"Have a STEADY supply of rodents"
I intend to be my own best customer by fur farming (mink, weasle, fox) and feed them rodents and having a large frozen storage area to weather any change in customer demands

"Make sure your stock is very good"
Only the best lives possible for the rodents which should translate to ultimate health and any sub-standard product will be used for fur farming

Cookie's comments:

"Yes but there's not a whole lot of cash just raising rodents"
The key here is 1)to not depend on one type of market or one type of animal and 2)be big and consistant (this is a dream of mine for 2 decades and now I've got land)

[HeatherRose]

I also heard of sausage-like snake food. advantages, dissadvantages, suggestions?

I think you can buy these at some petstores...from what I've heard, snakes that have been put on a diet of 'snake sausages' do not do very well.

I've read they can lead to digestive problems, because the hair of feeders is needed to properly digest. I'm not sure how this works into snakes that feed on other snakes and such though, so someone can correct me if I'm wrong.

[sneaky_boa]

Find some good CLEAN strains to work with. I lost several colonies to outbreaks of parvo and the like, so starting with a nice clean disease resistant strain and go from there is the best advice I can give. Especially if you are looking at breeding HUGE amounts.

To start with, for breeding pairs, look into animals from a supplier in Quebec called Charles River. Cleanest animals available, at least, that's what I've found. A little pricey for the first few pairs, but if it saves having to terminate the whole colony b/c of pin worms or something, it's worth it!!!

[Ann Vole]

To HeatherRose: I wonder if the idea of "snake sausages" is poor or if the ones out there are just poor quality! I was thinking of making them out of finely ground rodents with quality additional ingredients as food research dictates for a particular type of snake or for egg laying or pregnant (viviparous) snakes, etc.

To sneaky boa: Thanks for the recomended breeder, I'll check them out.

[Siretsap]

I never tried the sausages, but personally I don't think people will invest more money to get sausages than getting double the amount of rodents for the same price.

[Linds]

Originally posted by Ann Vole
I wonder if the idea of "snake sausages" is poor or if the ones out there are just poor quality! I was thinking of making them out of finely ground rodents with quality additional ingredients as food research dictates for a particular type of snake or for egg laying or pregnant (viviparous) snakes, etc.


Basically snake sausages are exactly what you were thinking of doing. Ground up mouse meat with additives. Personally, I think they are crap. People are too hung up on convenience sometimes to realize that fresh, natural products are the best. We like to think we can one up mother nature, but we can't. Also, I find the 'waste products' such as hair, to act like fibre, making sure the feces are firmly formed. Anytime I've had animals on pinkies only, they've always had somewhat loose movements, and once put on to something with more development, have had more solid feces. As for research, I don't think there has been much done at all in the field of nutrition for snakes. I've yet to hear of any standardized testing or analysis. The most I've ever encountered is a bit of common sense, such as upping the calories prior to breeding for females to increase weight, since they turn every bit of available weight in to babies, additional calcium to support growth or egg formation, and deriving intake from a reptiles natural diet (snakes that feed on reptiles and amphibians in the wild naturally require a lower fat diet than one that feeds on rodents, etc.).

Snakes do not require supplementation and the like, simply because they are eating *whole* prey items. They use virtually every part of the rodent to a nutritional advantage. :flick:

[rwg]

What I want:

- All sizes always available frozen in reasonable quantities (hundreds if not thousands).

- Competitive prices

- Humanely killed

- Fed proper diet, with fresh food leading up to their demise to provide gut loading

- vacuum packed and frozen

- sold by regional distributors to reduce shipping costs.

Forget about all the radiation and preservatives. Just deliver quantity and quality consistently, and economically, and you'll build a good business.

Roy

[Linds]

Originally posted by rwg
Forget about all the radiation and preservatives. Just deliver quantity and quality consistently, and economically, and you'll build a good business.


Agreed 100%!

[BoidKeeper]

Same here. Raise up good clean quality rodents, gas em and freeze em. No need to complicate things and make more work then what is needed.
Linds I also agree 100% with everything you said in your first post.
Cheers,
Trevor

[Ann Vole]

Thanks for the advice on "Keep It Simple"!

"All sizes always available frozen in reasonable quantities (hundreds if not thousands)." Definatly good inventory control with distributors and a large backup supply and equipment to weight and process as each size is needed.

"Humanely killed"
Ther main reason for getting in this business was all my ideas on improving the life of the animals including the moments before death and I think I have the absolutely best kill methods ever devised

"Fed proper diet, with fresh food leading up to their demise to provide gut loading"
I will have to do some research on the best content but I will keep "fresh food" in mind (do you mean something like say, green leafy vegitables?)

[Mark]

Ther main reason for getting in this business was all my ideas on improving the life of the animals including the moments before death and I think I have the absolutely best kill methods ever devised

What method are you thinking of?

[Linds]

Originally posted by Ann Vole
I will have to do some research on the best content but I will keep "fresh food" in mind (do you mean something like say, green leafy vegitables?)

I only have around 250 feeders + 3 pets and I find it difficult to provide the feeders with a consistent variety of fresh foods for several reasons, the most part being it is a little time consuming (I already spend ten times more time on the feeders than I do the 50+ animals eating them) as well as 'messy' since I usually try to keep wire mesh hoppers filled, which generally only works for solid, slow perishing foods. I feed them horse chunks supplemented with chicken scraps (bones, cartilage, meat) and black oil sunflower seeds. My pets on the other hand get fresh food on a daily basis including horse chunks, nuts, seeds, fresh/frozen veggies and greens, fresh/frozen/dried fruits, oatmeal/grain preparations, breads, pastas, eggs, meats, bones/cartilage, cheese, yogurt, etc.

That aside, I find breeding females need around 18%-20% protein and 8% fat in their diets to keep up with the demands being placed on them. Males don't require as much, but all mine do fine regardless (they are never seperated from the females).

[bistrobob85]

Don't go into saucages, thoses things remind me of the concept of just eating vitamin pills for dinner... Snakes live on instincts, there is no need to make things complicated. A healthy rodent which eats good food will be the best thing to feed a snake. Why would you want to take the teeth or tail off a dead rat? To make shoestrings? Get a good strain, from a good breeder or perhaps a lab... find a way to clean a lot of cages quick and disinfected within no time, that should do the job.

[dave68]

We used to buy a 25lb bag of hen scratch, 25 lb of guinea pig pellets and a 10-15 lb bag of gourmet rodent/hamster food, good sized bag of nutri blocks, mix well and serve. Worked successfully for years. We were able to keep outdoors and in winter would throw a handful of high quality organic dog kibble only for the added fat content. Rats would still be producing like mad in the dead of winter but not the mice.
Anyways, good luck on your venture, and if you go with our mix method use big lidded garbage cans (on wheels) works great. Have fun, wear a mask, Allison

[rwg]

There are mixed opinions on the value of gut-loading rodents. I'm not suggesting that a rodent farm constantly feed fresh food, but if they ate fresh veggies for some number of feedings before being killed, I would consider that a plus as far as gut loading goes.

[RepTylE]

Quality, quantity and price. You can give the rats blue punk hair by dying it with food colouring for all I care when I buy rats but if you want me to be a repeat customer you got to provide the three items in the first sentence. There is not substitute for quality and price. People with more than a couple snakes can't afford store prices so buying from a breeder is a necessity and when they need feeders...they NEED them!
I doubt that the larger suppliers get big by giving lousy service.

Myself, I would be thinking about the basics of marketing.