another feeding question

[cjice]

I know these "live versus F/T" threads get old but....My bp has never eaten anything but live food. In the past I have wasted so much money on frozen mice just to throw them away and feed him live mice. I now have had him on rats for a bout 2 months now (live, restrained)...My question is, since he is on rats, would I be wasting money again trying frozen rats? Has anyone heard of a snake not liking f/t mice but liking f/t rats or will he have the same reaction to the rats? I really dont like feeding live but trying the f/t makes me want to pull my hair out. He is about 9 months old and spoiled to live prey. Is there any hope?

[Vengeance]

There is usually almost allways hope, some are just very stobbern. What methods have you tried so far? Have you tried Pre-Killed, Stunned, Brained, Scented? How long have you let your Ball Python go without eating before you decided to go with live? You could allways try and wait him out, as long as he doesn't start to drastically lose weight he should be fine.

Don't want to really get into a debate of live vs dead but as long as you are feeding live responsibly there isn't anything wrong with it. There is allways a chance of injury but those are the risks that some people decided are ok to run.

[cjice]

The risk of injury is the only reason I dont like feeding live. Im not one of those people who thinks its cool to watch the whole feeding thing...Dont get me wrong, I do like watching AFTER the rat is dead but I dont like feeding day cuz I am always nervous about the "what if something goes wrong" thing. To answer your question, I have tried everything except "wacking" the mice...I just dont have it in me to do it, so thats my own fault. Also, I probably didnt wait it out long enough before feeding live, so my snake won that power struggle. Believe me, if I had it to do over when I first got him, I would have stuck to my guns longer but the past is the past. Maybe I will go at it again with him and wait it out on the f/t rats. Its feeding day and I can tell when he is hungry cuz he is a whole lot more active and searches every nook and cranny in his cage. I didnt have any problems switching him from mice to rats at all, and he is always had a great feeding response. I guess I will try this again....Wish me luck..lol

[nita]

This is just what I've personally dealt with.

Recoil and Whiplash : Adoptees that were fed live mice for 10 yrs, not very often. Were underweight for their ages and eat anything offered, I now keep them on FT large rats, but they have eaten rabbits, degus, hamsters, mice (only cause I had two the first day I got them and wanted to feed the poor starving BP's something), and rats all FT.

Orion, Isis and Demetae : Got them as hatchlings and they would not eat PK or FT only live took me a year of giving them live and then stunned and eventually FT. But I did have to whack the mice for a long time and then had to go fresh killed for a long time and now are eating FT with no problem but has to be mice.

[Vengeance]

Wacking isn't the only option, I too don't think I would have the stomach to wack a rat, but if or when I ever start a breeding colony of rats I'm going to use the Co2 method. It can be as simple as picking up some dry ice or as complex as a Co2 Delivery system with Co2 Canister. But for the ocassonal rat you can try dry ice or try this method that was posted a while ago

http://www.alysion.org/euthanasia/

Just another option and possibly being able to feed Pre Killed, and from what I've heard, feeding Pre Killed can be one step away from getting them on F/T.

[cjice]

I have seen that site on Co2...but what is the dry ice thing? I havent seen that. Could you explain or send a link? Thx.

[Vengeance]

Dry Ice is basically frozen Co2. If you ever go to like a haunted house and it isn't using a fog machine and it has fog, that is most likely dry ice. But basically what you do is get some dry ice, you don't need much, Put it in a small container that has holes in it, add some warm water and place the lid on the small container, then put that small container with the dry ice into a larger container with the rats and then close the lid, just make sure there are some holes at the very top of the larger container to push out the O2 from the container so that the Co2 can fill the container. As the Dry Ice melts it will release the Co2 and the rats will "fall asleep", then wait about 30 mins. Rats will be dead, but just be sure to do this in a well ventilated area and because when you are taking the lid off you could inhale too much of the Co2 and knock yourself out.

That's basically it.

[cjice]

Ok, I think I got it...Let me re-cap cuz Im confused about one thing...Put dry ice and a little warm water in a small container with holes, close lid....Put the small container in a larger one containing rats, close lid.....Then put holes in the LARGE container, as well? Why do I put holes in the bigger one? Does the dry ice need oxygen to "breathe"? Also, is this very humane...the rats just fall asleep, no suffering?

[Vengeance]

Pretty much, and yes it is humane, it would be the same thing if you used those Co2 Chambers.

The holes in the very top of the big container are for displacment of the Oxygen. You are releasing a gas into a container, the existing oxygen has to be moved somewhere, so by placing the holes in the very top as the container fills with Co2 the O2 is pushed out at the top of the container.