Question about injecting snakes?

[BoidKeeper]

When the drug has to be injected intra muscular how do you know you're into the muscle. Right now I'm using a SC drug wich is straight forward but it's not getting the job done so the vet is looking at other alternatives and they are all IM. How will I know I'm into muscle or not?
Thanks,
Trevor

[Shad0w]

Just a curious question.. what condition are you treating?

[BoidKeeper]

RI

[Linds]

Inject in to the first 2/3 of the body at a 45 degree angle in to the muscle (usually the length of muscle that runs alongside the spine, so the spot between the back and side). When I feel in place I give an ever so tiny and gentle pull back on the plunger to be sure I haven't hit anything else. Blood may flow in to the syringe on its own, but I like to be 100%.

[BWSmith]

Yup, inject the backstrap and be sure to alternate sides.

[Shad0w]

This is good info.. should be made into a sticky :)

[BoidKeeper]

Ok well other that the 45 degree angle that is what I'm doing now. I'm currently using Trimethoprim Sulfa but it isn't getting the job done so it looks like I'll be switching to Baytril.
Baytril is neucrotic and is IM. I take it just going into the snake between to scales in that area will automatically put me into the muscle?
When I feel in place
It's this "feel" I'm worried about. I don't know if I'm there or if I have to go deeper or not.
Thanks guys,
Trevor

[lostwithin]

Hey Trevor, although I have never give any shots to a snake, I have tried to find information on it before on it so I would have a basic knowledge if I ever had to, and linds pretty much covered it, you should go between scales into the back muscle on the first 2/3 of the snakes body, and yes you are most likely going to hit muscle in that area. I have give shots to animals before, reptiles are a bit nerve racking simply because your aiming for a fairly small muscle while having to put a fair amount of force into it to get through there tough skin. (Speaking on experience with a monitor not a snake)
Confidence is the key. Once you get the knack of getting through the thick skin (between the scales) its not so bad. I would suggest pulling back slightly before injecting just to be sure you’ve hit muscle. If you see blood you've hit a vessel not muscle. And remember to rotate sides.

Also in your case you may want to find a way to constrain the snake to avoid it thrashing. I'm not sure how you would accomplish that, maybe wrap it in a towel and leave only the injection site open; it will protect you from those teeth. And stop the snake from reacting wildly and hurting itself

Good Luck,
Devon

[Corey Woods]

If it's on a snake use Fortaz (phar name Ceftazidime). Clears up most bacterial infections. IMHO TriMethoprin Sulfa works better than Baytril (I hate Baytril for a number of reasons and won't use it). I swear by Fortaz (and trust me I swear a lot...lol).

Corey
PS. Fortaz is injectable every 3 days which is better for the snake too.

[Piers]

Your vet should of shown you. Its really easy and don't worry if you hit the bone as the snake won't feel it.
If you feel along the spine and then feel down from the spine to the belly, about a third of the way you will feel bone again, pick a spot in between them (spine and rib) and inject away. Do it in the lower third of the body and pull back on the plunger to make sure there is no blood and away you go.
Piers

[bistrobob85]

Good info, guys! I just hope i'll never have to give shots to my snakes... Good luck Trevor!

[BoidKeeper]

Fortaz
Is it IM and is it hard on the kidneys?

Your vet should of shown you.
My vet has never done it before. Not everone lives in a large center with lots of experienced vets or with lots of herp keepers. She's the only vet for 200km at least. She is doing her best and consulting with lots of other vets.
Thanks,
Trevor

[Corey Woods]

Trevor,

Fortaz is not hard on the kidneys and it's safe to use in the breeding season. They use is on pregnant mammals if they get sick. Baytril isn't good to use in the breeding season. It is also a painless drug to administer......Baytril burns going in and can leave scaring.

Corey

[BoidKeeper]

Is it IM? What about Amikacin(sp)?
Thanks again Corey,
Trevor

[Piers]

I like to use Amikacin but it is hard on the kidneys. I give sc of distilled water and or lactated ringer's every other day as well as soaking the snake in a tub of water and higher humidity over all.
I still find the best way to help get rid off a ri is keep the snake 90 95 degrees and high humidity. I've found the problem will clear up in a few weeks. This anly seems to fail when the ri has been left to long or the snake is too week.
Thats been my experince. Hope things go well for you.
Piers

[BoidKeeper]

Well I think I caught it early enough. It had a pop right out of the box when I got it home from the airport so I've always kept it a higher than normals temps. It only just recently started to hug the basking spot though. It's controlled by a helix and is set to 93.
I don't know what's worse stressing the kidneys or risking scaring the snake with Baytril.
Thanks,
Trevor

[BWSmith]

Anytime Baytril is injected, it needs to be cut 1:1 with STERILE water. But injectable baytril works just as good when administered orally.

[BoidKeeper]

Really! Where can I find out how to do this? I'm thinking I just tube the dose into the stomach? In the mean time I bought some 1/3 cc suringes with short needles to help make life easier.
Thanks,
Trevor

[BWSmith]

you can use stainless steel dosing needles or just a cat catheter to administer oral antibiotics, dewormers, or tube feed. The pharmokenetics (sp) of Baytril are the same if not better when administered orally. Unfortunately, there are alot of nasties that resistant to Baytril since it has become the Penicillin of the herp world.