Reptile World

[Ptindy]

Has anyone ever heard of this place? It's located in Drumheller Alberta. My girlfriend and I made a day out of going to Drumheller to visit the Tyrell Museum and Reptile World. It was an awesome day. I've never heard anyone say anything about this place, I found it on the internet doing a random search about reptiles. It is about an hour and a bit drive from the edge of Calgary and it was well worth it. Reptile World has about 80 or so different species. You name it and I think they had it, except for Crested geckos which was a little disappointing but they had New Calodenia Giant geckos which was pretty cool, they are huge! They even had about 10 venomous snakes including the black mamba, quite cool. The museum was also interesting but Reptile World definately topped the day off. Anyone else been there or heard of it?

Mike

[Manitoban Herps]

My friend from Manitoba went there, it's real and he said it is great!

He came back with a t-shirt that had the park on it....

[Tim and Julie B]

Tim keeps saying we need to go there too! I'm curious on the set-ups for everything. Did everything measure up to code?:D

Julie

[Ptindy]

Everything is set up quite well. The only thing I would really complain about is that the burmese python didn't have much of a home besides a big water hole and nothing else. But they moved so I'm guessing they are going to do something for him or her. A couple snakes look like they had trouble shedding but I'm sure they will work things out. All the reptiles looked healthy and had adequate room. It seems very well kept and no animal is skimped out in the space issue. Their RES turtles had very little room in their tank but behind it you could see construction of a very large enclosure which I'm sure is enough room for them. I would say their set-ups are very nice. I took mostly picture of the reptiles themselves so I can't show you them. It was kind of set-up in aa art gallery fashion. There were three kinda rectangular rooms with one end open for you to walk into and along each wall was the enclosures with glass covers (none of the enclosures pretrude out into the exhibit area and sometimes you could see in behind the wall where you could access them. I wish I could work there! They had a shield-tailed lizard which was pretty cool, never knew they existed. You gotta go there next time your around here for sure!

Mike

[Tim and Julie B]

That's good to hear. There's nothing better than proper education and to know the set-ups are correct makes me want to go there even more. We'll probably make the time to go next time we hit Calgary for a reptile show. It'll mean taking a couple extra days off, but I don't mind:D

Julie

[NiagaraReptiles]

I was actually quite disappointed when I went there this past summer. The animals exhibited were nothing out of the ordinary to me, I didn't even pull my camera out of the bag. I also thought their collection was rather small especially considering they had "the largest reptile collection in Canada" across the side of the building.

I used to volunteer at a reptile Zoo in the early 1990's and still keep in touch with the owner so i guess I was expecting a collection to rival his (which is extremely impressive). Most of the animals on display at Reptile World are seen regularly on import price lists.

Anyway, that's just my opinion ;)

JonK

[tonyj]

We took in a visit to Reptile World this summer.
The overall impression was very positive. The entry fee was reasonable, and the exhibits were clean and well presented. The facility houses a fairly large number of exhibits and is good for a couple of hours or so out of the sun.
We were allowed to handle or touch one of the resident boas; really good for the little folk who don't normally have this opportunity. The staff were informed and polite.
Niagara Reptiles must take into account that many of the reptiles on display are not normally seen in Alberta, where there are strict regulations as to what the regular enthusiast can keep.
Alternative Venues, such as the Calgary Zoo, do not, as yet, have a top line reptile facility, although there are a couple of interesting snakes in the recently opened sections. The Calgary Zoo can also be very expensive for a family.
Would I visit Reptile World again? You bet! Drumheller is one of the neat places to visit on a day out from Calgary and this is one of the places to see.
It is also a change to see live reptiles in Drumeller where the Dinosaur is king.

[varanus69]

i was there 2 years ago when they were still in the old building. I was impressed with the cleaniness of the enclosures with the exception of the alligator pond that was nothing more than a cess pool. I would have liked to see more of a selection but with that said the staff was friendly and had a clue what they were talking about. I would recommend this place to people and would go back if i was in the area. I plan to try to open a place like it in either lethbridge alberta or vancouver area but bigger probably within 7 years if finances work out.

[noname]

I enjoyed our trip there yesterday, very much! I was concerned that there wouldn't be adequate space provided for the reptiles, but I was proven very wrong. The setup was awesome for cruising around, and taking the time to appreciate each animal. I was quite impressed with their selection of venemous snakes, as well. I had never seen any up close and personal, so I found that really interesting. Overall, Mike and I had a blast. I would highly recommend it to anyone, and I'm sure we'll be going back sometime soon.

Courtney

[Greg West]

Dave Bethel, the owner of Reptile World was one of the founders of TARAS 25 years ago. He has done a lot for the reptile community over the last 25 years. I have been to reptile world and was quite impressed by their semi-naturalistic setups and the amount of room given to each species. I was there when they were in their old building so I should take a trip out there to see the new facilities. In my opinion it is a great place to see quite a few species that are not usually seen around these parts. A couple of my giant day geckos reisde there, and I knew of a few other peoples pets that made reptile world their home. Alot more reptiles than you would see at the zoo here.

Greg West

[gonesnakee]

Been to Reptile World lots, the old one that is. My friends Shawn & Dave do a great job on promoting reptiles there. I have purchased snakes from them in the past & have seen the displays from "both sides". They also helped me with an eggbound snake once when I was a "newbie" still. They have also taken in their fair share of rescues in the past too. As far as the import lists go, we in Alberta aren't subject to the large wholesalers of wildcaught imports as the folks down east are & it is illegal to keep venomous snakes here also (do without them IMHO, the importers that is). I kinda doubt that Black Mambas, Forest Cobras & Puff Adders are regularily available down east too though? They have a good range of animals on display to see & "Sophie" the Boa has probably been handled by more kids than any other snake in Canada. Feeding day is the best day to go & quite often members of the public get to be involved feeding the Gator. I thought my ex's son's eyes were going to bug outta his head when he was allowed to feed a large rat to it the one day. Watching the Gila Monsters & Copperhead take prey is pretty cool too. Not everyone has buddies with large collections of HOTS. In comparrision the Calgary Zoos reptiles are kinda sad to Reptile Worlds. I'm definitely looking forward to visiting the new one & taking in all the other sites to be seen in the Drumheller Valley area such as the world famous Tyrell Museum, Hoodoos, Horseshoe Canyon, little church, old mines & there is also the Passion Play there every summer that is usually sold out for all its shows months in advance. Also note that rooms are few & far between in the summer months so make sure to book in advance. If you have kids & are in southern Alberta they will love Drumheller. Mark
P.S. you can also do some serious Herping there as well

[Gary D.]

Niagra, You mention that many of his animals can be found on import lists. And for the most part you were unimpressed. It seems to me that most interesting species which are somewhat attainable are available on lists nowadays.

Not to sound snide, quite the contrary this is a very sincere and serious question. Please tell me what animals you would appreciate seeing in a private zoo facility and what would impress you?

[Corey Woods]

I was also their with Jon and my feelings are the same of his......I thought the place sucked. It definately wasn't worth the extra 3 hour drive to get to the place........although driving though the "bad lands" was ok. I was expecting something with a better setup. Also, half the animals looked like they were fresh off the boat. For having "The Largest Reptile Collection in Canada" I expected something a little bigger than a 10 minute walk through.

Corey Woods

[Invictus]

I've lived in Calgary my whole life, and I've never even been to the Tyrell. I'm pathetic. If any Calgarians are going out there in the near future, let me know... I'll split the gas money with ya. :)

[gonesnakee]

I guess we Western folk are just more easily impressed or are just more appreciative then certain individuals. Maybe if they had some Ball Pythons there would have been more interest from certain folks LOL I guess some people just can't appreciate some of the simple things & need to see high end morphs to show interest. Probably the same folks who do nothing but sit around bored behind their table at the reptile shows because they seem to think them boring also. Just my opinion anyway Mark
P.S. did the TARAS show also "suck"? I guess it probably did if you base it on sales eh! :rolleyes:

[Nicky]

Heh I used to go alot when we used to live in calgary. I was pretty impressed with thier collection ( then again I was 11 and hadn;t ever seen anything more than a few pythons boas and an alligator. The best time I rember going was when I was 11 and brought my friend who closed her eyes the whole time as she was petrified of snakes and ended up staring at the nhile crocs and alligator for an hour while I went around taking pictures of all the snakes. I especially liked the forest cobras.
Today I wouldn't be very impressed as there selection is quite poor but at 11 its all good.
Cheers

[Ptindy]

Best selection I'll ever see in any collection I think. Seems like people are expecting them to have every single reptile species known to man kind. I'm sure the owner of this Reptile World isn't making any money on this collection and I feel people should be more appreciative towards it. Sure it's a 10 minute walk through, but a book of every reptile is a ten minute flip through. What do people expect from this place?? The salt water croc to be swimming around buoys and the snakes do be swinging through hoops of fire? People are hard to impress these days for four dollars and fifty cents.

[JD@reptiles]

i stopped in there, i enjoyed myself. it was just a nice collection. there were about 10 hots. a king cobra with bad nose rub was one. but everyone there is nice. i enjoyed talking to one of the staff members shawn. i heard they moved though to a bigger location? i want to check that out.

[Corey Woods]

Mark,

The adult balls they had their didn't look that bad. I would have bought them if they were forsale.........It would have been nice to see something of interest their.......if they had an albino ball their I would have just been mildly dissappointed instead of thinking it was a total waste of time.

Yes I was bored at the Red Deer show.......2 day shows kick the crap out of me......1 day is all you need......The Daytona show gets boring on Sunday as well. Didn't go to the Taras show this year but 2 years ago I was bored as hell on the Sunday as well.......what's up with all these 2 day shows.......

Corey

[Corey Woods]

PS......Most Canadian shows suck for sales.......US shows is where it's at!

Corey

[gonesnakee]

Basically giving you a hard time for overall lack of interest Corey. The folks at Reptile World are there for the public year round sharing & educating the public & having to deal with them in busloads with smiles on their faces & are happy to do it. We all know how that can be LOL! They have done major PR for herping in general in this neck of the woods & we treat them with respect because of it. Shows aren't just about sales, there is a lot more to it then that. I can understand with the long trip & lack of sleep how it can be though (I meant to say Red Deer BTW). You obviously are a BP man at heart LOL because you don't show much interest in the rest. Even though the collection there might not be A1 to a guy such as yourself fortunate enough to experience Daytona etc. To the general public or even your average herper it is quite impressive. I don't know what you guys in Ontario have for places like RW but its what we got here so we appreciate it & all they have done for us as a Herp Community. We respect them for what they have done. When I see "sucked" & "right off the boat" I see none. Everyones has their opinions & I found Jon's appropriate, but yours notso professional. Glad to hear you do well with sales in the States if thats your gig, but there are a lot more of us into it for different reasons then that & I guess everyone just can't appreciate everything. Mark

[Scales Zoo]

I love reading Marks posts, very good posts.

Corey, I knew you'd like those big b.p's. I've told them they could sell them, but, of course they won't.

I've beent there many times over the last few years, and it is the largest reptile zoo I've been too.

Their sign that states "Canada's largest" was an older sign. I have not been to the Ontario reptile zoo's, but I've heard there are more species at each Little Ray's and Indian River.

Jon; I, like Gary, am interested to hear what kind of animals you were hoping to see. We may build a large reptile zoo someday, but if we do, it won't be to impress the 1 of 40,000 people who has seen almost everything. We would aim the zoo to the 39,999 of the people who come there, to learn something about reptiles. Still, I have to wonder, what that 1 person out of 40,000 would like to see.

Having said all that, I really like Reptile world, and have been to the new location while it was being built, and 3 days after they opened their doors. It is a much larger facility, but currently the collection isn't that much larger than what was shown at the old place.

My favorites are the black mamba, the copperheads (very nice coppers), cerastes, nile crocs, saltwater croc, and mata mata. If I built a zoo that size, and had their collection, I'd be quite proud of it.

I'm afraid they are now off the main drag, and that it might hurt business. I suggest everyone in the area check it out, and try to ENJOY it, as it is very enjoyable, fun, and educational!!

Tell Dave or Shawn Ryan from Leader sent you, mwhahahahah.

Ryan

[Corey Woods]

Mark,

Everyone has a valid opinion. My was that it sucked..........

I'm sure they've done a lot for the reptile industry up in your area. That's all fine and dandy. They aren't setup for the experienced keeper......they are more aimed to impress the non-herper who doesn't know a hole in the ground from a leopard gecko.

As for the "fresh off the boat" comment. I would say that about half their animals look amaciated. Almost like they sat at an imported facility for 6 months with no food or water and then were sent to them to put out on display. If you think differently that is fine......people ask their opinions and that was mine. Would I go back......no. Would I go back out to the badlands to motor around in the dirt looking for stuff........probably. Instead of taking a detour from Calgary to Red Deer I would have rather have driven straight through and sat in a hotel room. Maybe I'm just a simple person would doesn't have any other interests in life than ball pythons.

Corey

[Corey Woods]

PS....as for the comment

"The folks at Reptile World are there for the public year round sharing & educating the public & having to deal with them in busloads with smiles on their faces & are happy to do it"

All I have to say is that is their jobs and their employees jobs. If they don't like their jobs they can always find another one. I'm not forcing them against their will to put on a happy face and please the public......

Corey

[gonesnakee]

To each their own & unless they have really gone downhill (I haven't been in a while) I kinda doubt its as bad as that if at all LOL. Big Dan (who took you) or Ryan never said anything (& they would have) so I'm sure it wasn't. Mark
P.S. Those that give respect, get respect. Something to remember!

[Scales Zoo]

Mark, I had issue with the state a couple of the animals they had on display about 3 years ago. I spoke to Shawn about this, and kind of offended him with my approach a little bit. It was a very busy time for them, and it is hard to keep up to everything at times - it's understandable.

Since that time, I have seen nothing to make me think any of the animals are very bad off.

The last few times I've been there this year, everyone was very busy getting the new place up in a rush. There were a few animals that looked like they should eat more - the King cobra for one, which they have to tube feed - and don't like doing it. A lot of their collection has been there 12 years, old snakes don't look perfect all the time - but the testement to the way they have been kept is that they are old!

What should they do, kill the old snakes, so they have room for ones that don't have any mior scars or bumps. It's a tough position to be in, but I'm glad a lot of the same snakes are on display when I go back, so I can see them again.

Ryan

[Gary D.]

I agree with Ryan, there are some simple reality checks one should look at here. Dave set up reptile world while most members on this site were still in diapers, and to their credit a lot of those animals are still arround. Import lists weren't like they are today when he set up shop. Criticism here is that perhaps Dave could have tried to grow and attin more exotics to maintain a elite collection as the hobby has taken off, but he really hasn't had the need to, because the general public think any large lizard is an iguana, why would he nee to attain fijis or cyclura. If the bottom line is the $$ well then to hell with the herpers. The general public is who spends the money and thus are the target audience.

As for morphs, personally I don't think they have a place in zoos. Zoological institutions are about eduacting people about the diversity of the world's fauna (and flora in some cases), not showng what's cool in the herpetoculture. Saying RW should have an albino boa is like saying the Calgary Zoo should have a Bull Mastiff.

[reptile boi]

well said gonesnakee :)




Thanks,
Ben

[gonesnakee]

Very good points Ryan some of their specimens have been around a very long time & not all were "chosen" when they were aquired. Back to the "rescue" aspect of it. Anyhow I look forward to going soon as I now have time to see the new one. I always enjoy talking with Shawn & Dave. I'm sure with some time to settle in their new digs, they will slowly aquire some new display animals over time. They aren't selling any thousand dollar plus snakes out there LOL, just the odd Corns that they hatch out as part of the overall process there to share. So with the new location & all, things will most likely take time. I do remember now Dan saying that some of their stuff was getting pretty old. Anyhow... Mark EDIT: Good Points Gary also
P.S. Now I got that song stuck in my head "It's Money That Matters" :p

[Minnow]

I think Reptile World counts on the majority of our population that ISN'T into keeping reptiles. Even though there are thousands of people on these forums, there are millions out there that are impressed with the pythons and the boas. I'm in awe because they have venomous! I have heard children speak of a particular snake there by name. These are the people that will be our future herpers.
Corey, i'm glad you didn't go even further out of your way to see our Great Sand Hills because I'm sure you would compare it to some kid's sand box in Ontario.
Invictus, isn't that the truth, something right in your 'back yard' doesn't seem to be a priority to go see. There are ppl that come for Hiss in the Hills that have seen way more scenery in this area than the locals. That is human nature. It will always be there so we don't have to make it a point to go.
Gonesnakee you are a very compasionate and observant person. The staff there must wring their hands behind the scenes but when they are with the critical guests they have to suck it up and put on their public faces.
As Corey said it is their job, but when somebody does a good job I'm glad to see somebody give them credit. :-)
So, that's my 2 cents.
Carol

[David Kwok]

I think that any place that makes an effort to promote the reptile hobby deserves the thumbs up!. Yeah maybe they don't have the budget of setting things up perfectly but at least you should appreciate the effort!

[Corey Woods]

David,

The original questions were:

"Anyone else been there or heard of it?"

"Did everything measure up to code?"

Some people liked it.......some people didn't.

In a perfect world everyone would like each other, get along, hold hands....... all think the same. Fortunately were are all individuals........

I guess if you were to use the rational that you should like it because they have been around for a long time and have done a lot for the industry.......then I guess I'd like listening to Metalica and I'd drive a Volvo........well...I think both of those suck too! I don't like the colour pink either.......want to beat me up over that too?...........I don't really like some types of steak either.....I guess the meat industry is going to be banging on my door to force me to eat it too and like it........

IT'S AN OPINION..............you can't change someones opinion. We aren't publically slamming the place........we are stating our opinion.

Corey

Corey

[NiagaraReptiles]

I do just want to confirm first of all that all I stated in my previous post is my opinion. Nothing about the people behind the scenes (who I don't know) or anything further, just my opinion.


I'm not sure there is any one animal that could have been there to make me feel differently. I do recall the Salty, and other crocodillians to be in pretty good shape for captives, and that pleased me. I guess I'm predisposed to expect something I haven't seen before or haven't seen often when I go to a zoo. Also to see more rare animals in captive breeding situations. I recall several "pet store" animals on display there that I think the cage space could be used for other things perhaps more warranted for captive breeding efforts. Again, that's my opinion.

Thinking further about what has been said by others, I probably am very fortunate to have seen what I have and to have the ability to see rare and wonderful animals in person where many others don't have that within an hour drive of them.

I realize I am only one of 40,000 people and that I can't expect to be impressed around every turn........and I'm also not complaining about that ;) I also realize that familiar items are important to have on display in zoos for many reasons.........Green Iguanas, Anacondas, even Burmese Pythons do have a place for public knowlege and interaction. But I feel zoo's have a greater responsibility than public education........I'll stop there before I drift too far off topic.

Again, this is nothing personal about the people or facility, just my opinion of what I saw when I was there. Berber skinks, Yellow Ackies, Red Eye Tree Frogs, Pac Man Frogs, Cuban Tree Frogs, Corn Snakes, Bearded Dragons, Leopard Geckos etc. are all very common items to me............even Puff Adders (can't remember if they had Rhinos and Gaboons), Black Mamba's, Gila's, and most Rattlesnake species aren't that out of the ordinary to me. But again, that is just me and I offered my opinion.

JonK

[gonesnakee]

Seeings how the word "Industry" keeps popping up, obviously a direct reflection of who's in it for what IMHO I thought I'd bring some more history to this thread. The following is a quote from a recent interview of Dave Bethel of RW by Tim Baergen of TARAS.

"Prior to 1984 the Fish & Wildlife Act stated that all exotic animals were illegal within Alberta. As this was unrealistic they never enforced it. In the early spring of 1984 the government announced it was going to revise the act, to allow the ownership of common pet species such as hamsters, parakets and tropical fish etc, then start enforcing the orginal act. T.A.R.A.S. was primarily formed to lobby the government for the inclusion of common "pet" reptiles."

Obviously the lobby was successful as the new laws allow for us to keep reptiles. Without the lobbying the all out reptile ban would still have been in place & worse yet actually enforced. Not only would we be at a great loss as enthusists & hobbists, but there would be no "Industry". Prior to the formation of the society everyone that kept/bought/sold or traded them was a criminal as per Alberta law. Things have come a long way in 20 years. Alberta now annually hosts the largest reptile shows in Canada, those being the fall shows in both Red Deer (Walter's show) & in Calgary (TARAS show). Most people are unaware of actually how much these people have actually done to SAVE the hobby (or should I say "Industry") as if it were not for them we would not have one at all. We would all be forced "underground" & treated as common criminals, with our collections constantly at risk of being seized & being charged criminally. There would be no awareness or conservation for reptiles/amphibians at all as the Govt. didn't even consider them as part of the new laws. I know this is off topic, but I thought this an important tidbit to share. Even now there are bylaws in effect & others trying to be passed banning exotics in areas country wide & recent provinicial bans are now affecting other hobbists such as Pitbull ethusists in Ontario. These folks went to bat for us all & hit it outta the park IMHO, if it wasn't for them there would be no "Us". Anyhow Nuff Said, Mark
P.S. Good to see posts on both sides of things, as stated this is the way of the world, but some are obviously much more professional than others.
P.P.S. Jon are Hots such as Blk Mambas, Puff Adders etc. actually that readily available on import lists? If so what kinds of federal type regulations are involved in importing them (hots) if any? Other than the normal CITIES etc. that would be the case for all imports that is THX M

[Corey Woods]

Mark,

I think we are beating a dead horse here. I guess you can't accept that I have a different opinion that yours.

This was never a personal attack on Dave Bethel. I'm sure he is a great person......I'm sure he's done a lot of good for the reptile industry. That still doesn't change my opinion on what I thought of Reptile World.

This is all I have to say on the subject.

Corey Woods

[Corey Woods]

Mark,

If you are interested here are some "hot" prices (US funds).

VENOMOUS SNAKES NON CITES PIT VIPERS
Trimeresaurus Albolabris Green Tree Pit Viper 15
Trimeresaurus Albolabris insular Yellow tree pit viper 125
Trimeresaurus puniceus Indonesian Eyelash viper 55
Trimeresaurus hageni Spotted Pit Viper 75
Trimeresaurus purpureomaculatus Mangrove viper 55
Trimeresaurus Wagleri Wagleri Pit Viper 55
Trimersaurus fasciatus Banded pit viper, NORMAL 55
Trimersaurus fasciatus Banded pit viper, ORANGE 75
Calloselasma Rhodostoma Malayan Pit Viper 35
Daboia Russelli Sublimitus Javanese Russell’s Viper 75
Daboia Russelli Limitus Nusa Tenggara Russell's Viper 75

KRAITS (Elapids)
Bungarus Candidus Malayan Krait 35
Bungarus Fasciatus Banded Krait 45
Bungarus flaviceps Blue red headed Krait- Rare!! 125
Laticauda Colubrina Giant Banded Sea Krait 55

DEATH ADDERS
Acanthophis Spp. Death Adder (Seram) 75
Acanthophis Spp. Merauke Death Adder 75

NEW GUINEA ELAPIDS
Oxyuranus Scutallatus Canni New Guinea Taipan 150
Micropechis Ikaheka Papuan Tiger Snake- Rare!! 500
Pseudechis australis King Brown Snake- Rare!! 200
Pseudechis papuanus Papuan Black snake- Rare!! 200
Pseudonaja textilis Eastern Brown snake 150
Demansia antra Papuan Whip snake 150

COBRAS
Ophiohagus Hannah King Cobra 200
Naja Sputatrix Indonesia Spitting Cobra 25
Naja Sumatrana Sumatran Cobra 75

Corey

[gonesnakee]

Corey, I can totally accept your opinion, even though statements made belong on a BOI not open forum, thus my PS above. This thread ain't all about you there lad LOL I thought that others reading it would be interested in knowing some of the history behind the people involved & how its affected us today 20 years later. Nuff Said here also, its obvious who stands where.

THX BTW for providing the Hot price info. Kinda scarey to see what Joe Public has readily available to them at such cheap prices. These are for WC/farmed specimens I'm assuming? Makes it even scarier IMO I guess as long as its not CITIES its go hard if ya have the cash eh. Suprised more "keepers" aren't tagged then ya already hear about. Mark

[NiagaraReptiles]

All <i>Bitis</i> (ie; Puffy's, Gaboon's, Rhino's) are non-CITES and so are Black Mambas. They are subject only to local quota/trophy restrictions from the country/territory of origin. Most <i>Bitis</i> are commonly kept and bred in captivity as well (the only exception that comes to mind is <i>B. parviocula</i>). Demand for Black Mambas is pretty limited as they are a large, dangerous elapid, but the supply is still there.

There are no further restrictions for shipping/importing vemous reptiles orther than IATA regulations (marked, properly packed boxes).

I'm getting the impression that living in alberta would be very different than here in Ontario where venomous reptiles are only restricted by minuciple bylaw. I am realizing more now how fortunate I have been.

JonK

[Corey Woods]

Mark,

I'm actually surprised none of the mods freaked out and pulled some posts........IMHO I don't think any of it should be pulled. Again, it was personal opinion based on an experience.......not a personal attack on a person/business. Some people have trouble differentiating a personal opinion and personal attack.

Would things have been different if it wasn't a reptile facility.....such as "I don't like restaurant ABC because their food was horrible, the service sucked and their were cockroaches running around the floors". This is not a personal attack but ones opinion based on an experience. Other people would have different experiences and thus different opinions.

As for the hots most are cheap as the market is limited. I couldn't find a printed text (Jon would know more than I would) on the price of black mambas but I believe they sell for in around $75 US give or take. You could have a bag of the delivered to closest airport in no time if you really wanted them. But, since the market is limited the demand isn't very high so the prices stay low.

The price list posted above is about 6 months old and are for WC specimens. Mostly adults but some juveniles. Minimum order is $1000 US. I'm sure they screen their customers for the hots.....but they sell everything......if it moves in Indo and can be legally exported it is on their price list.

Corey

[gonesnakee]

Jon & Corey THX for the additional info & yes Jon you guys do have much less to worry about down there that is for sure. as far as hots go I got to experience living in the Kalahari Desert (worked there in 88) & worried daily about getting tagged by Black Mambas, Puff Adders & Spitting Cobras knowing that we had no antivenom. Being literally in the middle of no where any bite would probably have led to a slow painfull death. Sad but true, every venomous snake seen was slain by the locals as was their practice. My first day there my buddy Moses had a huge Puff Adder under his cot that morning. I have zero interest in keeping hots myself because of it even if I could. Cheers Mark