!!Worms!!

[Denise101]

Ok so im bathing one ofa littleale rainwaters in a deli cup cause she looks alittle dehigrated and she poops so i takes her out of the water and dries her off and puts her back in the cage. Then as im going to empty the dirty water in the toilet i notice a bunch of little worms wiggling around on the bottom of the cup! Their small (but easy to see) and a whit/clear color. Dose any know what kind or worm this is? And is their a way to treat her with out taking her to the vet? (I will take her to the vet if i have to) She's eating and and acting normal and hasn't lost any weight.

Any help is much apreached!

Thanks.

[concept3]

you will almost definetly need anti biotics, which would be better for a vet to prescribe the right one(s). If she is that loaded with internal parasites she could have more so a vet trip would be a good Idea. If you do go to the vet try and take a fresh fecal sample with you so the vet can do a fecal test.

[Shad0w]

Sounds like time for a deworming :)

Panacur, a de-worming med and Flagyl, a broad spectrum antibiotic is what ya need... but go see a VET! and GOOD LUCK!

Keep us updated

[DragnDrop]

If you've seen worms in one gecko, you can bet there's more worms in the other geckos. One common 'carrier' of worms in geckos is the lowly cricket. You could medicate the geckos yourself, but you really don't know just what kind of worms you're dealing with. A lot of intestinal worms are 'whitish', and not all will be killed off by the same medications. Your best bet is to get your vet to do fecal tests on ALL the geckos, including other species if you have any. If the worms did come in with the crickets, then any animal that ate the crickets is possibly infested.

Don't just go and medicate them with the drugs suggested. Panacur (Febendazole) does work against the most common intestinal worms, but not all. Flagyl (Metronidazole) should not be used without a trip to the vet first. It's commonly used to treat susceptible bacteria, infections and parasites like Giardia, Amoebiasis and Trichomonas and 'some' intestinal parasites like hookworms, not the kind of cooties you'll want to treat yourself. Flagyl is also easy to overdose, so you'll need to know the exact dosage, which is not too easy to figure out. If your gecko is weakened by the parasites, the dosage will have to be adjusted too, something the vet is best at deciding.

Dehydration is one symptom of internal parasites, but doesn't have to be present. Even if your other geckos don't look dehydrated, you can't rule them out as being worm free. The only safe thing to do is get them all checked.

[drewlowe]

Sorry just skimmed through and i'm sure hilde pointed out the correct info. you DO NOT want to use the "shotgun" approch when dealing with internal parisites!!!!

This is just an example---

Panacur if used can be hard on the either the kidneys or liver (sorry can't remember which one at the moment) and you have to keep your herp very well hydrated when on this med. Alos they normally don't eat to much while they're on panacur, so now your going to be dealing with a possible weight loss. Now knowing that risk certain internal parsites can only be eliminated with certain meds. So if your leo has coccidia then there isn't a darn thing panacur is going to do for it exept cause problems for the leo. Now why whould anyone want to do that to their herps???

The best thing to do is take a fresh fecal sample in make sure it's not over 24 hours old as the eggs or worms will start to die and the vet or vet tech will not be able to determine the type of parasite. You don't have to bring your herp in if you are allowed to just take the fecal in which will save you anywere from 30-60 dollars. But if you don't have a scale to weigh your leo on then you will have to take him/her in. The vets need the weight to determine the correct dosage of meds are required. Too little and it may not get rid of them too much, that could hurt or kill your leo.

Also if you house more than one leo together and the test comes back positive then you need to get all of them treated. You have to "assume" one has it they all have it.

Gtg dinner time

Jamie

[Denise101]

Ok thanks for all the help, she couldent have goten them from crickets though becaues she dont eat them. I have a vet appointment for her and her boyfriend on friday. :>
Also were can you buy Panacur?

Thanks, Denise.

[drewlowe]

If your vet finds out it has parasites, then they will determine which parasite it is and give you the proper medication while your there.

jamie

[Denise101]

Do anyone know were i can buy Panacur???

[damzookeeper]

I wouldn't give it any penacur, your vet will provide it if you need it and will give you the right dosage for each gecko as it depends on their weight for dosage.

[Denise101]

I dident ask if i should give it to her, i asked were i could buy it.

[damzookeeper]

Originally posted by Denise101
I dident ask if i should give it to her, i asked were i could buy it.


Well, it sounded like you were going to just buy it and give it to her before the vet visit. Sorry, the only place I know of to get flagyl or panacur is the vet office.

[Siretsap]

Someone a while back was talking about some GSA or something (Grape seed extracts) if I remember correctly, this would act kinda the way panacur does since they use it to treat horses for nematodes. Was it you DragonDrop who talked about this? if not, sorry for thinking it was you but that post was very informative. Only problem is I can't find any in my area.

An other very informative post was the one where a member talked about his experiences with uromastix, how he put very high tempatures in an area of the enclosure and humidity in an other, and he only lost one uromastix over an extended period of time. (boosting the temps over a certain tempature will kill most of the internal parasites, hence the uromastix being a good candidate for this cause of his tolerance to extrême heat).


We have too many geckos to take to the vet to get the "right" dosage for panacur. But then again, panacur can be overdosed 100 times without any side effects unlike flagyl. (but they don't treat the same things either). We do the stool samples ourselves and doze our reptiles ourselves, but we know what we are doing, I wouln't recommand it to you if you are not sure on what you are doing.

[DragnDrop]

I didn't post about the grape seed extract, never used it and I'm sure I never will. I've still got some 'issues' with their claims and haven't seen enough proof to convince me. Right now I rank it someplace near, but just a bit better than snake oil.

Panacur has an admirable safety margin.... in mammals. Nobody really knows yet if that also applies to reptiles. It's safer than some drugs, does have at least a fair safety margin against OD, but it's still not known if it's as high as with other animals. It blocks the ability for the parasite to absorb carbohydrates, so it starves to death. Mammals and birds can live with that, it doesn't affect their ability to absorb the carbohydrate at even several thousand times the recommended dosage. Some snakes have died at just a slight OD, and there's evidence of some other reptiles not having that much tolerance for it either.

Read the article in Chameleon Online E-zine (http://www.chameleonnews.com/year2002/july2002/panacur/panacur.html) The article is written with chameleons in mind, but there is enough general reptile info to make you think that "just maybe" it's not all that safe to use without supervision by a vet.

[Shad0w]

I believe u can buy panacur from some feed (farm) stores... I think flagyl is only available through a perscription in canada...

[Siretsap]

I just read the article,
the conclusion is the same to every other articles I read

" This is a result of each author's personal experiences. As touched on before, there is no real research in pharmacology of this drug in reptiles and veterinarians working with reptiles have had to experiment on their own. There is much room for work as each reptile may react differently and the dosage tested and proved effective for an iguana may be different than what is needed in a turtle. Although tests to determine the appropriateness of any drug is recommended, there is no known danger to the animal if Panacur is used in a "shot-gun" manner (medicine given to an animal with only a suspicion that parasites are present)."

I was aware for the snake death, and I know people who tested it on cornsnakes to see what the maximum od was, and it was still over 50 times the initial "right" dozage. I never said it was a good thing to od, but what I tried to say is that it's a relatively safe product to use, even if you od a little (I still think 100 times is quite a big od when you are suppose to follow certain criterias).

The information is the same in Reptile Medicine and Surgery. Plus I have yet to see a vet that gives a right dosage. 3 vets we consulted, and none gave the same dozage for the same reptile...