Max temperature for BP

[joebagadohnut]

Hey guys.


I am getting my BP on thursday, so I am setting it all up for him now.
While running my UTH and Spot lamp, I am getting about a temp of 85 on the substrate (outdoor carpeting), but I am getting a temperature of like 96-98 under my spot lamp.
Is that way too hot?
Everywhere I have read has said that the maximum temperature should be about 90.
Should I invest in a rheostat, or is the 96-98 range fine?

thanx.
Jeremy.

[TheReptileGuy]

well i think you answered your own question. Everywhere you read said the max temperature should only go up to 90 so, the max temp. should go to 90. I keep a 40 watt bulb which warms the tank up to about 83. What wattage is your bulb? Try like a 40 or 60 watt, because i am assuming you must have like 80 plus on there now. This is the blue exoterra i am talking about.

[joebagadohnut]

I got a 75 watt Sun Glo (Exo terra) basking spot lamp.

I am not sure why I got such a high wattage.

Do you think a 40 watt would solve my problem?

thanks.

[joebagadohnut]

Should get the daylight blue or the spot lamp?

[Jeff_Favelle]

Instead of worrying about the max temperature a Ball Python can withstand before dying, why not put your effort into getting the temps right in the first place?

Not flaming, just wondering what your train of though is.

And lamps suck for heating Ball Pythons. There's an FAQ on this very forum.

[Asian Jon]

Yes, I got fed up with lamps. Everytime the temps go down I would turn on my 50watt infrared and it would just dry the crap out of my enclosure. Sometimes I would find a dent in my BP's eye, I would soak 'em in water for an hour and it would go away but it use to piss me off. Anyways, just using an under tank heater works well enough for my BP.

[joebagadohnut]

well my heat pad only gets the temp to mid 80's, and I was told that bps prefer to have a basking spot of low 90's.
That was my train of thought.

[joebagadohnut]

"What temperature should my Ball Python be kept at?
A temperature gradient of 78/82 - 90/95 works well for most Ball Pythons"

And my cold side is low 70's and my hot side is high 80's.
That is why I thought I had to get the lamp

[Jeff_Favelle]

That is why I thought I had to get the lamp


Or a better heat pad, or a better cage that holds in the heat (let me guess, you're using an aquarium?), or put it in a room with a higher ambient temp to start with.

Lots of options. But kudos to you for knowing what temps to reach. You have done some research, and you're really close to getting it right. But lamps don't really work for a nocturnal subterranean snake, and if you're using an aquariumm, then there's a lot better options out there than a fish cage.

Best of luck, keep asking!

[joebagadohnut]

IS there anything I can put on the bottom of the tank under my substrate (carpeting) to make the heat radiate more in the tank.
What I mean is that directly above the UTH, it is the good temperature of around 88, but as soon as you move a few inches away, the cold end is 74-ish.
Without buying a new terrarium quite yet, what are my possibilities? Buying a smaller heat pad for the cool end?
Do BPs not need a basking spot if there is a substrate temperature of 88 or so?

My only concern other than the basking spot is how to raise that lower temperature on the cold side just a few degrees.

thanks for all the help Jeff.
Jeremy.

[joey]

hello--

i'm new here.

i have my snakes in glass tanks that i bought at petsmart and were in the reptile section. all my tanks i have turned on their sides and am using human heating pads under them. seems to be working well. i've been using this method for almost two years now and no problems. temps/humidity are good.

why don't you like glass aquariums, jeff?

[joebagadohnut]

Am I losing all my heat because my tanks are upright?

[joey]

i have a 30 gallon tall tank and (of course) upright all the heat was going straight up and out the wire top. tunred on it's side though was a whole different story. stays nice and warm now in the back corners.

you might try turning yours on it's side. i have the sliding wire tops too and it makes it a great way to open the cage.

[joebagadohnut]

what if I put tin foil or something under my substrate....do you think that would radiate the heat more around the tank?

[joey]

i don't know about tinfoil....

[joebagadohnut]

what if I got a small UTH for near the cold zone?

[HeatherRose]

Haha. I think Jeff doesn't like fishtanks because they're for fish :p

Glass aquariums have crappy ventilation and do not hold heat or humidity as well as a rubbermaid container does. Rubbermaids are so much cheaper anyway, and they are easier to stack, and move. Glass can break easily. I've also heard that if you have a head pad under a glass tank it can crack...I might not be right on this though.

Regardless of that last notion, I think the other ones are some good reasons for putting most snakes (especially a ball python) into a Rubbermaid container. Its' just easier ;)

[joey]

the tanks that i got were in the reptile section though. i feel bad about using a rubbermaid ---seems kind of mean. just my opinion though. i like to see my snakes too.

thanks for you input heatherR

[joebagadohnut]

yeah, rubbermaids ruin the enjoyment of watching your snake.

[concept3]

a bp would prefer a rubbermaid to a aquarium anyday. They naturally live underground in rodent/animal burrows.

[joebagadohnut]

yeah, but I am sure they would also prefer not to be in a cage at all....:)

[Matt_K]

I have all my smaller boids in rubbermaids.. The larger ones get Melamine caging and I see them ALL without the enjoyment being ruined..

There are some glas tanks that are being made for reptiles, they have the sliding front and screen top, IMO they still don't hold humidity well.. There are also the Aquariums that have the plastic vents built into the sides, and these DO hold humidity well, but they also cost and arm and a leg..

I'd rather spend my $8 on a rubbermaid and keep my BP's in those then spend the $200 on a 'reptile aquarium' just so that >I< can see it...

[Jeff_Favelle]

yeah, rubbermaids ruin the enjoyment of watching your snake.


If I wanted to have a display snake, my last choice would be a Ball Python. That's for sure. Well, maybe a Rubber Boa or blind snake would be my last choice........ but you get the idea.

[joey]

what's the point in keeping a snake if you can't see it?

[Jeff_Favelle]

What's the point of keeping a subterranean/nocturnal snake if your only reason for keeping it is to see it?

[Bartman]

I see where they are coming from, because that is the same thought I had when I was keeping them in aquariums. Im still keeping some of my snakes in tanks, but rubbermaids (as much as its hard to admit) are all in all much better.

I know I had my ball python in a glass tank, and I didnt see him anyway. Now hes in a rubbermaid, havnt noted any improvements, but im under the impression its just better for them.

Its better off in a rubbermaid...

[smeagel]

if i want to see my ball python i'll take it out and handle it for a couple minutes. But i keep all mine in rubbermaids and they thrive a lot better than when i had them in aquariums. They feed soooo much better and aren't as jumpy.

[v2r]

if you're determined to use the glass tank cover most of the top to help keep in the warm air and moisture. if you use a bulb, the humidity will never be right. get the proper size/wattage heat pad and regulate it by a thermostat. get a digital thermometer with a probe on it to check temps. there are also alot of good cages out there barrs,boaphile,ap plastics,cagemasters etc.
the proper setup will solve/prevent alot of problems. and possibly prevent a trip to the vet, and your snake will benefit the most from a proper setup!

thanks
vaughn

[Jeff_Favelle]

Exactly what vaughn said. Get a solid cage with sliding glass doors if you want a display cage. If you want an aquarium, buy some fish. AQUA - rium. Hmmm.....

[joebagadohnut]

What is the difference between the reptile terrariums and fish aquariums other than not having water in it....or maybe having a side vent?
In terms of temperature and humidity, I mean, how do the terrariums differ?
When was the last time you went to any store and found them selling rubbermaids?
I don't get why everyone is so against the tanks....

[Jeff_Favelle]

Know the difference in heat conductivity (R-value) between glass and even the thinnest piece of wood? BIG difference.

Ventilation? Intuitive, but I'll touch on it anyways. Open top, closed on all sides, air just rushes in and out. Fine for a species that likes that. Beardes and leos can live in that. Ball Pythons? Not the greatest. Just because you don't understand why we're all against it, doesn't make it ok. People do use them. I used to use them 12 years ago. They can work, they just aren't the best option. Some people come here loking for the best option.


So if the aquarium loses heat faster, leading to more heat being needed, and has a big open space at the top, what does that do for humidity?

When was the last time you went to any store and found them selling rubbermaids?

LOL, if I'm at the mercy of what a PET STORE sells me for my caging options, I think I should just stop keeping reptiles right now. Some people are a little more progressive than the garbage that is offered at the local pet store. I see pet stores selling hot rocks, does that mean I use them in all my cages? They also sell ground up "turkey diet" for monitors and tegus. Do I buy it for my monitors? Nope.

[joey]

I think it's just a matter of personal preference.

[Jeff_Favelle]

I think it's just a matter of personal preference.


Personal preference does not change the natural history of the animal. Fortunately (unfortunately, in my opinion) these animals have a wide range of conditions that they can stay alive in for a period of time.

[BoidKeeper]

I use glass tanks on their sides, rubbermaids and visions. I have had no problems with my glass tanks laid on their sides. In the tanks laid on there sides I keep, boas, rainbow boas and ball pythons in them. As for whether or not I see my Balls, well when the sun goes down my Reguis roam and I have no problem seeing them. In my ball rack though wich uses a dark container I don't see a thing. Do I mind, not at all. Those snakes are for breeding. If I want to watch something I watch my Emeralds of Chondros.
Cheers,
Trevor

[joebagadohnut]

I have a live plant in my corn tank right now, as well as one of his water dishes partly on the UTH. I keep some plasctic on top of the water, and the humidity is fine. Wouldn't a light on top of a water source just increase the humidity more?

I am being serious here, I don't know. I just purchased a lamp...
Everyone keeps saying the lamps dry out the tank, but what if a water source is below it?

[BoidKeeper]

IMO lamps do dry out tanks. I do use them with my arboreal stuff. Well not lights but heat emiters. With my male emerald and biak chondro I use natural substrate and I spray them almost everyday in the morning. It helps to if you have a snake room and a humidifier. One fish tank in a cold bed room with a UTH and a heat lamp on top is probably one of the hardest set ups to maintain. It can be done but it is a lot of work.
Humidity is increased if it stays in the tank. With open to fish tanks it normally rises straight out the top.
Cheers,
Trevor

[JDouglas]

I recently had my wife's six year old brother want a corn snake in an aquarium. I am also against the use of aquariums for most snakes so here is what I did. First I got him a 2 1/2 gallon aquarium. The first mistake people make is trying to put a baby snake in a huge aquarium. Second, I used a cobra heat pad on the bottom. Then I gave the snake one big hider made from a ceramic tube that I broke to fit in the cage and lay almost flat. Half of it covers the warm spot and half covers the cool spot. In an open cage like an aquarium snakes will not leave the security of their hide if they are too hot or cold. This hider allows the snake to feel secure and pick his temp under his hider. Last, I taped white basement insulating foam(the same foam I use to pack boxes when shipping reptiles) to fit all sides of the aquarium and also cut a piece to cover 90% of the top. It holds heat and humidity great now and I am sure the snake will feel more secure with most of the glass covered. If an aquarium must be used this works well but you can't see the snake becuase it hides all day and only crawls around at night so you might as well use a tub.

[joebagadohnut]

for my corn, i put the exact same hide (an upside down flower pot) on the cold and the hot side......
I used to just have one, and he would only use it and never go from side to side.

[atw]

I am new to ball pythons so I have really enjoyed this thread. I will be putting mine in a Rubbermaid that is for sure.

Jeremy,

Here are some links that may help you out if you decide to go down the Rubbermaid path:

http://www.reptileforums.com/articles/plastic_bin.htm
http://www.ball-pythons.net/Sections+index-req-viewarticle-artid-27-page-1.html

This site also has a couple of good articles in terms of the overall care of a ball.

http://www.reptilerooms.com/Sections+index-req-listarticles-secid-18.html

One outstanding question I do have, however, is about under tank heating. If I am using a plastic container, would an under tank heat pad be considered a heat risk? Am I just being paranoid? I have read the instructions for an Exo-Terra heat pad and they advise against using the product with a plastic container. Is this a valid concern? Who are some other suppliers? Any preferences?

Thanks,
Adam

[Jeff_Favelle]

If the heat pad gets hot enough to melt plastic, the point is moot because it is already hot enough to burn snake belly.

That's when a rheostat comes into play.

[joebagadohnut]

hey adam, thanks for those sites on the rubbermaids.....

I am going to try the old saran rap on top of the cage trick for now...if the humidty and heat won't stay in, i'll upgrade to the rubbermaids.

There should be some air circulation between the bottom of your habitat and the table it is on. That is a definite must for making sure there are no problems concerning your UTH.

jeremy.

[joey]

I also lay my tanks on their side and have had no problems keeping the temps/humidity levels right. My tanks are 20 and 30 gallons long so the distance between the top and bottom are shorter which seems to be trapping the heat well. I also have pothos plants to help with the humidity. The UTH are in the back corners.

I don't know guys, it's been working well for me.

[joebagadohnut]

Do u have a pic or anything of your tank in it's side?
Where/how did u make a top for it?
I have heard some people talk about how they have sliding doors and stuff, but I have never seen them.
I know one guy who has his tank on it's side and the top is held on by bungy cords, but that looks stupid.

jeremy.

[Jeff_Favelle]

I don't know guys, it's been working well for me.


Nobody said that it didn't/wouldn't work.

[joey]

I will take a picture tomorrow of my set-up. There is a sliding screen door that slides up and latches on the bottom. ..no bungy cords! Makes it nice to not approach my snakes from above, too. The door is very secure.

I can totally understand the sense in using rubbermaids if you are a breeder and/or keep a lot of snakes or if you just prefer them. I have four and I do watch my animals a lot. I like to sit in my 'snake room' to relax and watch them at night ( I turn a red light on ) .

So kudos to those of you who use rubbermaids. I'm not looking for an argument.

[MouseKilla]

Ok Jeff, look away for a minute! lol.

Here's my "fish cage" setup, and it does happen to have a BP in it right now.

http://www.ssnakess.com/photopost/data/500/2511IM000012a.JPG

I started out with stuff from pet stores as well and that usually means aquariums so there are still some around here. On the other hand I have since stopped buying expensive, bulky and innefficient aquariums and have wholeheartedly adopted rubbermaids for all future small snakes.

To compensate for moisture loss I pull down that towel you see on top of the cage and maybe spill the water bowl when I notice the snake is in shed. Keep in mind that this set up is being used in a heated room so no secondary heat source is needed in or under the cage itself, just the heat pad for the hotspot.

[joey]

Originally posted by Jeff_Favelle
If the heat pad gets hot enough to melt plastic, the point is moot because it is already hot enough to burn snake belly.

That's when a rheostat comes into play.

I do have a question that I've wondered about and am curious. If the heat source (UTH) 'can' get hot enough to melt the plastic, is there a possibility that the heat on the plastic could be emitting toxic fumes that rise up into your snakes space?

Does anybody know for sure?

Maybe there is a certain temp that needs to be reached before fumes?

[joebagadohnut]

IF there were fumes, you would smell them (I would assume). I would think if you saw warped plastic or anything that you might be in trouble...but I don't know...

[marisa]

I think if something is heating up enough to cause fumes, you have a lot more worries than just the fumes alone, because you have a fire hazard, and a possible burnt snake.

The only way to avoid these problems almost entirely is to use a rheostat or preferablly a thermastat and a good digital thermometer. Using these things set properly, your heating pad won't melt anything.

Marisa

[Artemis]

Well look who's a MOD!!! YAY MARISA!! Its about time we got some more chicks on the mod squad ;)

Rheostat can be bought cheaper in the form of a plug-in dimmer for about 8 bucks at walmart, on the lightbulbs isle.

Artemis

[Jeff_Favelle]

What's the black panel in the middle for? Doesn't that defeat the purpose of having it in an all-clear cage?

[MouseKilla]

LOL! I thought I told you to look away! haha. Yeah you could say it blocks my "view" of an animal that only comes out at night and even then only when she's hungry.

In this case there is no "purpose" to having an all clear cage, I'm just showing how a sufficient cage can be set up with an aquarium. I am phasing them out because of their size, cost and relative uselessness. Next year I'll be giving out some free aquariums with some of the corns I sell. lol!

Believe it or not that's a piece of an old binder I wedged into the screen to hold some of the moisture in... doesn't work especially well, hence the towel. It's ugly, but I don't get bad sheds anymore.

[Jeff_Favelle]

LOL!! ;)