View Full Version : Serious Problem Here...
Is it me or is there alot more threads on basic care questions for snakes in general. I have seen just in the past couple weeks probably more than a dozen threads with the subject being *can my snakes live together*
I just got done reading the thread of a guy who bought a BP and put it in a coffe can because he didnt have anything to house it in, let alone the supplies needed for proper care. I know this is a forum where people come to ask questions and so on but almost every thread title here lately has been stuff everyone thinking about owning a snake should already know.
I know there is no way to make people know the answers to these basic questions but I think we should at least make a thread for all these questions to be compiled into. This way when someone makes a thread about can I house my snakes together we can refer them to the *basics of snakes keeping thread* for the answer.
I think everyone would agree with me that the number of threads of people with ridiculous topics that should already be known before buying a snake is on the rise and it would be much easier to just send all these questions to one thread where the answers can be found. This would cut out a lot of the negative responses given by some members here and also help to inform the topic starter of the proper husbandry habbits to care for snakes.
I didnt start this thread to have it become an argument for whatever reason so please stick to the topic at hand and lets try something new to help out these misinformed, uneducated people on the proper ways of caring for their snakes.
concept3
10-20-04, 05:20 PM
Well, I dont know about you but I am almost willing to bet that most people that keep herps bought their very first herp on an impulse buy and their husbandry for that creature was not perfect. Maybe your perfect but most people went to a petstore and bought a snake not knowing how to properly care for It. Any person who denies that is either a liar or knew someone allready into herps. Remember when lots of us started keeping herps even me 8 years ago, you could not hop on your home pc and find a site like this, most people didnt have internet until 98 or so.
But back to the point you should not flame people for being ignorant you should try to help them. Dont ever protend your better because you were the same as them at one point.
Not my point at all.
Off topic already I see. Anyone who can come to these forums and ask for advice for the mistakes they made by buying a animal without knowledge of it can also use the internet for research before they buy. Thats their own fault. Its not about what the people did but how we can help them so im saying lets a make a thread with the most common questions and send anyone asking basic generalized questions to the thread for the answer. This would save me and you time by not having to explain it over and over.
But if you aren't here to ask questions and read others replies why even come to an internet forum?
No matter how basic, or advanced the questions are, or how often each is asked....the whole point of an internet forum is for learning, sharing your experience, "polling" other owners of a species, and getting hands on information over care sheet styled info. That's it. Without those aspects, it not a forum at all, but a page with a bunch of questions that are answered in one general way rather than a discussion.
Newbies need to learn too. I am in aggrement with you on the research first aspect as it pisses me off how ignorant some people are...BUT....at the same time I am willing to answer the same newbie question again and again. If I wasn't willing, I simply would not visit ssnakess.com
Just MHO. :) I do agree with lots of your points and see what you are saying as I myself hate the constant impulsing and what not. But that's just what the forum is for really, amongst other things.
Marisa
Oh and BTW some of the mods did a great job including a "FAQ" or caresheet at the top of many forums here. Those do the job just fine IMHO.
Marisa
Thats right , most people buy their first reptile at a pet store. If you`ve ever been to a pets store most of the snakes are housed TOGETHER, when you get them home you would think that you could keep them together
When I got my first two corns I bought them at pet land - there was 6 in a tank together and I bought two - i kept them togther and they were fine - afterwards I bought many from different people breeding and not and they had kept some of the ones I purchased together - I had all of the different lizards that wre same species together and did not have any problems so I automatically thought the same would work for my snakes
not everyone knows everything like some people apparently and fortuanately sights like this were created for a novice herper to ask any and ALL questions regaurding reptiles
one more time hooter if you don`t like don`t reply
there are several people on here willing to give constructive feedback
Ok im not going to throw my points and views around on this thread for it to turn into a flame war like every other thread on this forum so i'll just leave it at this. To me this would be the best thing the forum could do. If you guys wanna hear these bad threads and call out people for their bad care then so be it.
All I was trying to do was make a thread with the most asked questions and send people that ask those questions to the thread for a ANSWER. Most people that ask novice questions dont even get a answer because they get flamed to hell and by the time they do get a answer they are long gone from this board.
I just figured it would make it more simple and easy to inform people on the proper ways of keeping snakes. Ya'll make it sound as if this is a bad idea and for what reason I have no clew. I have seen it done on other forums and it works great and gives the people asking the questions some great responses without the negativaty.
You are overly sensitive! No one is turning ANYTHING into a flame war, or anything else. I don't even understand what website you are reading because I see a 100% different picture.
If you don't like ssnakess.com then find a place thats more appealing to you personally! It's that simple. If you do like it and have something to share, thats amazing and all the members including myself are quite welcoming! I just cannot believe your reply here! No one here is "negative" or "mean" and frankly any replies you feel are mean, maybe you should simply PM the writer of them and tell them how you feel? We already HAVE the things you are suggesting. FAQ's, and caresheets. If you didn't know, FAQ stands for "Frequently Asked Questions" which is essentially what you are talking about.
Maybe one of the first suggestions you should be giving out is one to yourself.....
"To: Me Re: RELAX! It's only a discussion on the internet!"
:D:D
Marisa
really because I noticed that ont he last post about keeping snakes together you were the only person to flame - and then that person made another post that they decided to to seperate them
It seems that everyone elses advise worked fine
ydnic,
Dont cary your hate twords me from another thread please. Stop being childish please.
If you guys can't play nice, you're both going for a time out..
Seriously now, Chill out, both of you.. If you guys have a problem with one another, take it up in private..
As Marisa stated, there are FAQ threads at the top of MOST of the forums on this site that cover just about all the BASICS, as well as a caresheet section.. So what else do you think we could do to, "try something new to help out these misinformed, uneducated people on the proper ways of caring for their snakes." ?? By the way, just because they don't understand how to properly care for their animals, doesn't mean they're 'uneducated'..
Jeff_Favelle
10-20-04, 06:57 PM
I think its very very sad how little research people do when buying a pet reptile. I think that its DOUBLY sad as to how easy it is for these very same people who know ZERO about keeping reptiles to acquire them. I don't know the answer. There's an FAQ at the top of each forum, yet people either seem too stupid or too lazy or both to read them before asking a question that would invariably be answered by reading the FAQ.
And it doesn't stop here. I get 3-4 emails per week from people wishing to buy their first snake and they say they are all set up with hot rock, aquarium (fish cage people), and basking lamp. And they go on to inquire about Rainbows Boas! Is that not insane? Needless to say, I set them straight before any animal leaves. But are all breeders like that? No. And pet stores certainly don't care how much knowledge a person has.
Its a sad state of affairs. All we can do is to do our part to educate. ..........
Originally posted by Jeff_Favelle
I think its very very sad how little research people do when buying a pet reptile. I think that its DOUBLY sad as to how easy it is for these very same people who know ZERO about keeping reptiles to acquire them. I don't know the answer. There's an FAQ at the top of each forum, yet people either seem too stupid or too lazy or both to read them before asking a question that would invariably be answered by reading the FAQ.
And it doesn't stop here. I get 3-4 emails per week from people wishing to buy their first snake and they say they are all set up with hot rock, aquarium (fish cage people), and basking lamp. And they go on to inquire about Rainbows Boas! Is that not insane? Needless to say, I set them straight before any animal leaves. But are all breeders like that? No. And pet stores certainly don't care how much knowledge a person has.
Its a sad state of affairs. All we can do is to do our part to educate. ..........
Wow, Someone that actually understands what im saying :) oh and Matt if they dont know how to care for a snake then what are they? I always thought uneducated was the word for that...
Im uneducated about a lot of things. That means I dont know about these things which would be the same as what I just said. Is the word uneducated different where you come from or something? Not being mean so dont take it the wrong way but uneducated might mean something totaly different for you. I myself go by dictionary standards...
You threw the term out in a general sense.. They're not UNEDUCATED, they're uneducated on the care of reptiles, not in general.. That's what I meant by what I said..
Originally posted by Matt_K
You threw the term out in a general sense.. They're not UNEDCUATED, they're uneducated on the care of reptiles, not in general.. That's what I meant by what I said..
I cant say I clearly understand what you mean. I never said UNEDCUATED I said uneducated.
*uneducated*
adj 1: not having a good education [ant: educated] 2: not adequately educated in the use of numerical terms and concepts
How can that be taken the wrong way? LOL you confuse me
:)
concept3
10-20-04, 11:14 PM
Hooter I dont want to offend you or I dont want to start an argument.......... with that being said. If It makes you mad to answer newbies questions dont! Your on here getting mad at people because they dont know any better? Its a community forum where everyone is allowed to come and ask questions, no matter how ignorant or stupid they seem to you. If you dont like that idea then you do not belong on a COMMUNITY forum. That last post of yours was a low blow. Desperate words from a desperate man......................
Simply.. But we're not going to be simple, we're going to be difficult right?? So just forget it..
Thanks for the spelling lesson though..
Last edited by hooter on 10-20-04 at 09:43 PM
Guess im not the only one who makes spelling errors now, am I???
HeatherRose
10-20-04, 11:37 PM
*sigh*
I think what Matt means is, just because someone does not know the basic husbandry of snakes does not mean they are STUPID when it comes to other aspects of daily life.
You can know reptiles are cold-blooded, but does that mean you know they'd need a cold spot and a hot spot? Common sense might tell someone that a big, roomy enclosure would be better for a snake. Common sense might also tell us that live food is better for a snake because they can hunt, like in the wild...
This is all stuff I would have thought when I first got on this site. Mind you, I didn't keep any snakes, just geckos that I knew how to care for. This is NOT the case with everyone, some people ARE impulsive.
But this does not mean they're not university grads with engineering degrees...get it?
bistrobob85
10-21-04, 12:05 AM
Yeah, some people defenetly are impulsive and that's not gonna change... Still, i think we should not openly blame them for it, we should offer them a hand to help them with their animals... It's not worth trying to prefent people from buying impulsively, they're too many yet... sad. The forum at least helps them out a little with some human touch. It's also true that if you don't want to answer the newbies' questions, you don't have to...
phil.
Jason Wakelin
10-21-04, 12:44 AM
I'm going to get scorched here, (especially since spelling counts apparently), but I totally agree with hooter. Before typing this response I took 10 minutes to look for the FAQ area of this site, and couldn't find it. Not to say it doesn't exist, as I've never looked before now, but it sure didn't leap out at me or anything.
And it's not like I joined yestarday, I've been here since before there were 1000 members, even though I very rarely post.
Sure there are "newbies", they are the lifeblood of our hobby. I mean, come on, where else are you going to sell your pictus, leos, or ATF's to? Hell we were all one once ( I kept my first snake (1982), on pennies 'cause I thought it looked cool), but they need more direction? When I started keeping there were virtually no books on captive husbandry, let alone the internet. Google Ball Python and tell me you can't find a care sheet.
I'm probably making arguments for both sides of this "debate", but in the end I'm with hooter, we need a well defined and easily found FAQ sheet for those who have some very basic questions. Things like NO you cannot keep your new Red Flame Garter Snakes in the same enclosure as you Desert Kingsnake, because..... well it's simple division, 1 divided by 2 = 1 kingsnake!
Hooter was not looking for a flame war, as he so stated. I think he was looking for a solution to the traffic of posts. And I really don't understand why some people are getting so upset with this.
BTW (or, by the way, for you newbies) my personal opinion is that this is the best webforum on the net. The moderators are "supermoderators", and I very rarely go to kin...anke at all anymore. Maybe that's why i'm getting a bit pissy.
Thank you Ssnakess.com
Originally posted by Jason Wakelin
Before typing this response I took 10 minutes to look for the FAQ area of this site, and couldn't find it. Not to say it doesn't exist, as I've never looked before now, but it sure didn't leap out at me or anything.
They're posted at the top of every forum.. Well, not every, as some are still being written.. But for instance, the top of the BP forum, Boa Forums, Corn forum.. They're all labelled as 'Important' so they should jump out at you! LOL.. ;)
Originally posted by HeatherRose
I think what Matt means is, just because someone does not know the basic husbandry of snakes does not mean they are STUPID when it comes to other aspects of daily life.
Wow thats totally distorting what I said lmao I cant believe someone can take the word *uneducated* and turn it into *STUPID*. If you want to interpret my words to your favoring then go right ahead but I already showed you the dictionary definition of the word uneducated.
I am in no way trying to put people down because they have questions. We all have questions and we all have to start somewhere. I dont understand how I come here and offer a suggestion and almost EVERYONE takes it as im being mean. If I wanted to be mean I would say *wtf why all these noobs posting this stupid noobie threads omg i hate noobs wow* thats more like a mean thread.
All I was saying is for people that lack knowledge which doesnt make them a bad person could have a thread to go to with answers to their questions. Yes I see a FAQ thread but does it have everything in it? NO. I know more could be done and thats what I was trying to point out.
I dont even care about the topic at hand anymore, you people cant read or do not interpret words right or something. I see NOTHING, absolutely NOTHING, in my first post to in indicate im being mean or even trying to be mean. Go ahead and quote me on this thread to and change my words around a bit more I love to play scrabble with people who cant read clearly.
Originally posted by hooter
All I was saying is for people that lack knowledge which doesnt make them a bad person could have a thread to go to with answers to their questions. Yes I see a FAQ thread but does it have everything in it? NO. I know more could be done and thats what I was trying to point out.
The point of the FAQ is to answer the basics.. I think the basics are covered in those threads, if they're not, by all means, send us information to add to them and we gladly will!
RepTylE
10-21-04, 08:31 AM
People don't get jumped on in the threads just for asking newbie questions, they get jumped on for coming off like twits about it. Good example is the one where the guy wanted to get a snake to *quote " watch it choke and eat something". That was a disasterous thread from line one and I seriously doubt that it accomplished a thing.
There are blowups all the time in these forums, who knew that reptile enthusiasts would be so emotional, lol.
Dark_Angel_25
10-21-04, 08:41 AM
Is there not a way (and this is just a thought) To add a main button for FAQ at the top of the home page, and have that page lead to a link that would take people to the FAQ sheet on the forum of that choice? This way they are all together, and right therre on page one. Putting them at the top of each forum is a good idea, but as someone mentioned, if you are looking for FAQ's in general, and you dont see it on the homepage (which is where I usually found them on other sites if I was looking for them) then the people tend to just post the question..
I know we will still get people just posting and not looking for the FAQ anyway but it may be reduced, AND then people with Hooters mentality could just post
" Check the FAQ section on the Homepage"
and be done with it... Just a suggestion...
**********************************
Tracy
HeatherRose
10-21-04, 08:54 AM
Wow thats totally distorting what I said lmao I cant believe someone can take the word *uneducated* and turn it into *STUPID*. If you want to interpret my words to your favoring then go right ahead but I already showed you the dictionary definition of the word uneducated.
Oh no, not at all. I was just dumbing it down for you, as it seemed you had a very difficult time understanding the concept of 'uneducated' :)
I'll jump in here. Many of you have tremendous knowledge on reptiles, but seem to know a lot less about humans. People are fallible. They make mistakes through ignorance, they make rash decisions, they fail to do research up front, they assume pet stores know best. You all know so much about reptile behavior, that I'm sure you're capable of understanding a little bit about humans too. The cure for ignorance is elightenment, not ridicule. A FAQ is a great idea, but it wont be the first place newbies look necessarily. Human nature. People ask questions of the experts as a first resort, not a last resort, because they feel it is the best source of information, and because it is interactive...they can ask followup questions and get clarifications. Why do you think we even have university professors when the course material is all right there in the text book?
I would like to see all snakes kept in proper conditions. I would like to see all herp enthusiasts new and old be knowledgeable and act responsibly. I would like to see as many herpers as possible become a part of this community. When I answer a newbie quesiton, it is to further these goals. If your reply doesn't serve to further some worthwhile purpose, I cant understand why you'd bother to post anything. We get this "snake in a coffee can" post, and it's followed by post after post of "this makes me sick", and "give it to someone else who can take care of it" with only the rare nugget of useful information. If you all claim to care about the animals so much why aren't you trying to help rather than just venting? None of you are any better than this guy...you're just further along the curve. If you're tired of answering the same question over and over, just stay out of the way and let someone else do it. There are hundreds, or even thousands of people on this site who are competent to give advice on a ball python setup.
I think everyone should give new people credit for wanting to learn more about caring for thier newly aquired reptiles. We are giving them knowledge that will last a lifetime.
It might seem like people are "lazy" to search for care sheets, etc. But the fact that they are actively looking to increase their knowledge is much better than one who just doesn't care.
Breeders should and do embrace newbies, as it was stated before. This is the one of the main ways to help increase customers and also that they will trust and respect you when it comes time to make their new purchases.
I wonder what it'd be like if our schools treated people the way some members do?
:(
Lighten up peeps! Education is the way!!!!!!!!!!!;)
Maybe your perfect but most people went to a petstore and bought a snake not knowing how to properly care for It. Any person who denies that is either a liar or knew someone allready into herps.
That may have been an excuse when you veteran guys got into this way back, but for people like myself who have gotten into it more recently, there is ZERO excuse why you can't, at the very least, spend a couple hours and Google some caresheets. Very few people have NO access to the internet nowadays, If you can't get access for at least an hour or two somewhere, then getting a snake is probably the least of your priorities.
When I got my first Cal King(2001) I had a couple books, printed off almost every caresheet I could find, AND I had the cage ready to go before I ever emailed the first breeder. Hell, I had that sucker up and running 6 weeks before I ever had anything in there.
I agree with Jeff, it's sad how little people are willing to look into this before they make a purchase. Not saying that they all turn out to be bad owners, I'm sure most turn out fine once they get the info they need, but how about some initiative on the buyers' part.
Just keep pushing it on them is about all you can do. A snake doesn't leave my place without at least asking about their setup, and unless it's got a caresheet attached. Other than that, just hope the person is smart enough to take advice(if they need it).
concept3
10-21-04, 03:42 PM
what I was trying to say i geuss is most people went into the petstore, the guy at the petstore told them their "ball python" could live in a 10 gallon tank and all they need is a 50 watt heat bulb, and a mouse every week or so.
So this person buys the snake takes it home and in a month it wont eat or has retained eye caps or mites or any number of problems. The people assumed the guy at the petstore new what he was talking about and since he worked at a petstore he knows lots about the animals they carry.
So it is usually not lazyness or the person not caring its misinformation the newbie got, and when they run into a problem they come here to ask us for help not to get flamed or ridiculed or told to give their snake away, but for trustworthy answers from people with experience.
I totaly agree with the whole petstore thing. I went to a new petstore to buy a rat and the guy tried to talk me out of buying it!! He told me that my snake would regurgitate it and I should only feed mice. Now every time I have gone in there since then, he chuckles this condescending chuckle and shakes his head at me..lol...My snake has never done anything but gobble up the rats...AND they come out the right end...lol
i think hooter's idea is good...I didn't read it as a flame or anything like that. I've seen FAQ's on other sites that work well. You simply direct them or link them to that page instead of repeating yourself for the umpteenth time. Answering the same questions over and over becomes tedious and fills up the forums with nothing but constantly reiterated information. It needs to be done in order to help people but an easier method to convey information would be with one page of basic care.
Instead of writing paragraphs of info...just link them...you're being just as helpful by doing that.;) I think it was a good suggestion. Now who's up for writing it?:D
hooters idea wasn`t a flame - hooter does all his flaming in other threads that HE doesn`t start
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