Strange behaviour???any ideas

[dean_h00]

I have dealt with many reptiles in my day mainly monitors and also very hands as well. Within the last 3 weeks my 15 month old savannah monitor whom ive had for her entire life has been acting very strangely. She is not as social (does not come out and scratch on the glass whenever i walk in the room, closes her eyes sometimes when i try call her out of her hide and just isnt herself), and just now tail whipped me when i was going to pick her up (not atrait wedgey has ever taken to) I am starting to notice hip bones at the base of her tail but she has been eating with the same ferocity as the day i got her. As well some of her stools have been very fury so i have laid off the rodents for now. Yes her diet is very varied I feed her anything that she should be fed so thijnk up anything yes i feed it to her on a very solid schedule. within the last couple days her stools have become quite a bit more digested but she continues to do something she has never has before and that is go to the washroom on the floor of her enclosure she has always defecated in her water bowl and although she continues doing that its almost as if she cant control some bowel movements and just drops partluy digested smeellly *** clumps of mouse on the floor???
I AM SO CONFUSED
i have never seen this before ever its like shes eggbound but I have never heard of female savannahs going eggbound without a mate but taht would nbot account for her loss in weight.
As well its almost liike she is having a stage of (with lack of better wording) PMS (no offense when i use this analogy) anyone have any ideas because I AM SOOOO CONFUSED.
She has been checked by a vet and is clear of any problems
has anyone seen this before any ideas would be great
i will keep you posted on her progress
thanks a lot
Dean Herzberg

[crocdoc]

Did the vet do a fecal to check for parasites?
Is she big around the middle?
Did the vet do an xray to check for eggs?
Is she digging a lot more than usual?
Does she have anything to dig in (deep dirt substrate, for example).

Sounds to me like it could be a number of things, but the two that spring to mind are a parasitic infection (could be bacterial or worms) or she is about to lay eggs (females can and will lay without a male, it's just that the eggs are infertile).

[dean_h00]

ya see she did have a fecal check actually 2 when she was 3 months and 9 months can parasites just pop up like that??
i knew they could go dormant for short periods but not show up after a year
yes her substrate is about 13" deep at certain points (her enclosure has some depth ion respect to substrate it can go down to 6" inches at places and up to 13" at others)
She has not been digging which makes the eggbound possibility a lot smaller as well she is not that large around the middle also taking that out of the question if she doesnt get better in the next week i will take her to the vet I mean she still eats like a tank just her personality totally changed and its so wierd I am totally stumped
:(
Like i have dealt with many problems before but this is just so strange what are reason her personality could just swap??? is she possesed?? lol
Her temps in the cage are IDEAL she can bask in temps anywhere from as high as 145 degrees to anywhere as low as 85-90 she has any choice she wants. My husbandry for not only her buit all muy animals in my eyes is almost perfect(i mean as good is it can possibly be) which is another reason why i am so stumped

[crocdoc]

It scares me when people tell me their husbandry is almost perfect. I would never make that claim about my own animals - leaves no room for improvement (and there is always room for improvement). But, on to your monitor...

Parasites don't just pop up, they have to come from somewhere. Have you ever fed her anything other than the standard frozen/thawed rodents, crickets etc?

You've mentioned the depth of your substrate, but what is the substrate? Does she normally dig a burrow in it?

[dean_h00]

her substrate is cypress mulch
she does burrow but ussually she jus goes under her hide a rock which she tunneled under
lol
i obviously did not mean that i am the perfect keeper but can you sort of understand what i mean like I work "by the book" persay with my own little twists depending on what the monitor prefers
but yea I fully understand that even now little is known about these creatures but i do what i can to keep them happy....
and on to wegdey i remain stumped I feed her classic frozen thawed clean rodents coming straight from reptilia (a very reputable reptile stor/education center) I WISH I KNEW WHAT WAS GOING ON:(

[crocdoc]

Originally posted by dean_h00
Yes her diet is very varied I feed her anything that she should be fed

Was her diet strictly rodents, then, or something else as well?

Cypress mulch is not the ideal substrate for savannah monitors, which is probably why she doesn't dig burrows. From what I know of them (I've never kept them) they would prefer plain old dirt. It's very natural for them to dig burrows, so if she hasn't dug any to sleep in, it would be because she finds the substrate unsuitable. If she were carrying eggs (and I'm not saying she is), not having the right substrate to dig a burrow in would potentially cause problems for she may hold onto the eggs rather than lay them.

It's very hard for us to say what's happening with your monitor, since we can't see it.

[dean_h00]

Ya i know what you mean
Here is her diet I feed her Rodents, Chicks (occasionally), silkworms, superworms, crickets, chicken gibblets(gizzards), some smelt, and other seafood on occasion (shrimp, etc)
I highly doubt she is eggbound although I will check tomorow but being eggbound may be one of the reasons as to why the sudden change in mood. Or do gravid monitors not undergo "mood swings" persay because i have heard both sides that graid monitors do get a little touchy and that they do not change at all...
any other questions>?

[crocdoc]

gravid females can have mood swings, but they vary from individual to individual.

Is it possible any of the food she ate was a bit off, giving her bacteria her gut is unaccustomed to?

[V.hb]

You 100% positive that the ambient temps don't flucuate at nighttime? sometimes feeding too late, then having the temps drop will cause a bit of gutrot, explaining why the food looks half digested.. Half digested food to me sounds like temperature problems, do you see your sav drink? and how sure are you that it's a female it sounds young.

[dave68]

From reading your post, it sounds normal to me. All monitors that eat rodents will pass hairy stools unless you feed hairless rodents. All monitor poop is smelly as well. As for the behavior, come on it is not a dog or cat, of course it's not always going to be a lap pet. Of all the savs I've personally dealt with there have only been a couple that were actually any different ie. mellower than any other monitor. Personally my favorite monitor is my nile, he is as dog tame as any monitor can get, and yet when you open his door he still comes running with his mouth open! The difference being as soon as he hits you with that tongue of his he stops, climbs on your lap and looks up at you with that "are you gonna feed me or what!" look. So relax, get another fecal done to make sure you don't have worms,and enjoy your monitor being a monitor!

Dave

[V.hb]

I agree with Dave here.
I will add, with some of my savannahs, i moved them from a small enclosure to a large one. Nothing changed with their attitude besides they would not be as social. yes they would still venture around and explore all the time, but if i went to handle them, they became pissy. It's just individual temperment.. you'll run into it alot.

[dean_h00]

I understand what everyone is saying and I am well aware these are not dogs lol and there temperment may be off once in a while
but can you see hwre I am coming from in that I am starting to see hip bones... strange? yes considering she eats like a tack and never refuses food even when she is in a hissy mood.. maybe I am over exagerationg but it is only out of love I care for my pets sometimes more then I care for myself, and it hurts to see when they arent feeling well:(

Yes I do see her drinking she spends a fair amount of time (not to much and not to little) in her water bowl and ussually she will go in to defecate or jus relax and have a drink.
I am going to take some pics now of her feeding so you all can jhave a look at my precious:) and see she is a still a very ferocious feeder and appears very hea;lthy

I am guessing it was just rot gut for a little bit of an extended period but a l;ittle more time will tell.

lol and obviously monitor poo smells lol
i didnt mean it like that
haha

[V.hb]

How often do you clean her water?

drinking dirty water can cause bacterial infection, and that would be a reason for weight loss. She's suddenly not using the water pan like before.... they do have ways of telling you something is wrong..

[dean_h00]

I change her water at least twice a day it turns my stomach to see dirty water
tThe way i look at it is if I wouldnt drink it I dont ant them to

[V.hb]

that's good, hopefully he turns around then.. keep us updated

[crocdoc]

dave68, I wouldn't have commented on the behaviour changes alone if they were not accompanied by the monitor's hip bones showing.

[dean_h00]

crocdoc what do you mean by that
Im confused...

[SHvar]

Half digested mouse and not puking them up? Ive seen sick monitors and other lizards, snakes etc puke mice partially digested up and it looks similar but stinks something horrible in comparison. Id say check your temps, switch to dirt (suggestion). They can after all digest darn near anything if the temps are high enough. But if the temps are too low they will not plus puke them up so they dont poison themselves. That sounds like a low temperature problem to me, this time of year can bring it on, as the temps dropped fast here. Keep us posted and try upping temps.

[crocdoc]

It sounds to me like more than just low temperatures. If he's had the monitor for 15 months and it is only now losing weight, with hip bones showing, while still eating voraciously, there's something going on.

[dean_h00]

I agree crocdoc
Im temp gunning constantly very busy when it comes to checking temps, she can bask at as high a temperature as 145 degrees which I know is just about ideal, and Im pretty sure that temps arent the issue because in her 6x3x2 cage she can choose her temps to suit her needs at any time... day or night
there is definetly something else happening Im starting to lean towards some sort of virus of sort (bacteria maybe) but im stumped and am really not sure from what.

[SHvar]

With his business partner, it was doing great and growing fast, only when he returned it , it hadnr grown since, it stank something horrible, under the cyprus mulch was tons of half digested mice, this monitor barely lost any weight really but hp bones showed. It was puking the food up when no one was looking, then burying it. The temps were too low. I suggested this because of the time of year and I know here they dropped fast, from 70-80 down to 40-60 in days time. It made a difference that I have to adjust my monitors cages a bit for. Just a suggestion. Chemicals, bacteria maybe, virus maybe, Im leaning towards temps or chemical problems. Anything that may have happened or was fed to it or exposed by air while you werent around or that you might not think could cause it? Bug sprays, water pipes replaced in the house, or street recently, someone unintentionally using a new chemical in the last month?

[dean_h00]

Hey everyone here is a lil update on wedgey
as of recent she has turned back into herself a lot more spunky, passing good stools, goes nuts when i walk inyo the room still is showing some hip bones but i am hoping that will soon change givin she is clearly digesting her food much better...
After all is said and done i am leaning towards her having rot gut of sorts because I do recall feeding her a fairly large rtodent pretty late and just before before her daytime lights turned off not giving her ample time to bask and digest it...
I just recalled doing this recently
but anyways i have learned my lesson and do not intend on doing such ever again

So I will continue to post updates on her weight as time goes but I am happy to inform everyone that she appearsto be at around 85% and continues to get better every waking minute :)

Thanks for everyones suggestions:
Dean Herzberg