HELP!!!! JCP dying?

[justinO]

Damnit!

I have a tiny JCP who's about 6 months old and hasn't eaten on her own. I don't know if she doesn't have a will to live or what, but we've tried all the tricks & resorted to force feeding once a week for the last while. She's still not doing too well and I'm really afraid she will die!!!!!

I've had to help her take off her last 2 sheds, and as I sit with her now she doesn't have the energy to even hang on, most of her body is just floppy, but she's still pretty active with her head. She also can't control her bowel and it just comes out freely.

I've been keeping her hydrated, soaking her, etc..... but is there anything else we can do or is she too far gone? I could not stand to see her die and I'm desperate. I would take her to the vet but I know he could not help.

Should I pump pinkies full of water and give them to her like twice a week? Anyone have any suggestions other than putting her down?
Please help!!!!!!!!

Jessy

[BigBADace]

I really wish i could help you out, hopefully she'll pull through long enough for u to get her to a vet or at least get some good advice from someone on here

Good luck

[Ptindy]

if you haven't gone to the vet yet, GO NOW! how do you know he can't help? because YOU think you have the knowledge of a vet a the means to diagnose your going to let her die? please go to the vet ASAP

[justinO]

I WILL, I WAS ASKING ADVICE UNTILL THEN.

Anyone else that is going to say take her to a vet, THANKS, I'll do that. Right now is 11pm and no vet is available that I trust.

If anyone has something ELSE to say, PLEASE DO SO.

[Ptindy]

Originally posted by justinO
I would take her to the vet but I know he could not help.

[/B]

Sorry! I must have read this incorrectly!! MY BAD!


Mike

[noname]

I agree - take her to the vet. If she's been like this for such a long time, chances are it's not her just being picky. How do you "know he can't help" with whatever the problem may be? I would say it's definitely worth a try - if it were myself, I would do everything I could (within reason of course) to save my animal. Good luck with the little snake.

Court

[justinO]

Yes, that's why I was asking on here to see if there was any advice that someone could actually give me. I can see this was pointless and no one will tell me anything useful (so far).

And in case no one else has mentioned this, most vets get a reptile book to read and are told they will learn as they get cases coming in. Personally I don't feel like letting a vet GUESS on what's wrong, and charge me $100 to tell me she's gonna die.

Thank you for making a difficult situation very frustrating as well.

[noname]

You asked for suggestions, so I gave you one. I'm sorry that you took it the wrong way. If I were you, I would try just about anything, before putting her down. That includes taking her to the vet...if you're worried about them not having an extensive knowledge of reptiles, phone first, ask if they know anything. I'm sorry, but without actually examining your snake, there is very little any of us can do on here. Like I said though, best of luck. I hope she turns out alright.

Courtney

[Ptindy]

Internal problems?? If you go to an experienced vet they will no longer be referring to their reptile book. Just have to find the right one! Have you squished it's crap between two pieces of glass and placed it under a microscope? Probably not. They have the knowledge and the EQUIPMENT to properly diagnose your reptile. Sure many vets know nothing, but you'd be surprised at how much some DO know. Some probably are herpers themselves. Anyways, I have read some of your posts previously and thought your were experienced which is why I didn't question husbandry in my first post like many others would have. Maybe I should be? Frustration strengthens personalities.

Mike

[gonesnakee]

First off no one here can even begin to help without more info. Husbandry info. hot side temps, low side temps, enclosure type, lighting, substrate, hides, etc etc. Also has it ever ate on its own? Was it established feeding when you got it? Have you contacted the breeder of it? What has its feeding history been in your care? What feeding methods have been tried. This could be something as simple as a husbandry problem or errors in feeding methods. Info Info Info will help get a more educated answer than "go to a vet" anyone can suggest that whether they have a clue or not (useless posts IMHO) I wouldn't continue the FF unless you know what you are doing 100% & seek a local breeder for assistance possibly too The stress of FF alone could be whats "killing it" Good Luck & seek experienced help. Mark

[justinO]

Thank you Mark, I had given up on this post because it was useless trying to get info out of people who were not willing or able to give it.

Husbandry is fine imo, 90-95 hot, 80-82 cool, lots of hide spots, higher humidity plus a humid hide & water bowl. She's in a small rubbermaid with UTH, on paper towel & with some greenery.

She was only a month old when we got her, not established and has never eaten on her own. We have tried putting it in a small container, tried a baby gerbil, tried leaving mice in overnight, tried assist feeding, etc. Breeder can not help, and can't tell us anything useful. We had to FF when we knew she would start to get weak if we didn't, and are experienced at FF. We were told/read that jungles often are hard to get going, but most will eventually take food on their own, it just hasn't happened with us.

I spoke with a REAL vet (that's actually seen a snake before)about a different matter and brought up the jungle, he said to keep it hydrated and suggested putting this pedialite stuff inside the pinkies before feeding & up her temps (which I did the other day).

I guess it's a case of if she makes it she makes it.... we are experienced keepers but were seeking real advice from others on here. I know there is lots of knowledge around this place, but it seems only those who want to pass the buck actually post.

So again, any real advice or ideally anyone with experience in this kind of situation would be appreciated.

Mark, any suggestions?

[Jeff_Favelle]

Why did the breeder sell a snake that was not eating for one???

And for two, there are Jungles that simply do NOT make it. They don't eat or shed at all, even after 6 months and they are best euthanized. I'm not saying that this is the case with your snake, but every so often, you'll get Jungles that just won't do anything. They are destined to not make it. Something to think about while you try everything to keep this thing alive.

[justinO]

Jeff, thank you for your reply, it is nice to hear from you.....and your honest words....

The breeder, as so often happens in this hobby, needed the cash and we bought a pair from him unestablished. It's always a risk, and he told us that they were not eating properly yet but they most likely would after being settled. The other that we have (sibling) is twice as big and eating 1 or 2 mice at a time. That one is in the same kind of set up as the one who isn't eating.

I have considered also that she might just not have a will to live. I don't want to give up on her, just in case she does turn out okay..... I know she would grow up to be a stunning snake!

I'm not used to these tiny snakes and having to feed mouse pinkies, baby ball pythons I have gotten established after never eating but the same tricks and tips don't seem to apply.

I'll see if the pedialite, more heat, and soaking will pull her through for now and hope for the best!

[Dom]

I agree with Jeff.. out of the 50 baby carpets i hatched out there was one that had no will to live .. never ever shed nor did he ever eat after FF for 3 month he past away .. It boggled my mind for a while.

I see your point with the vets.. You just have to find a competent vet that you trust .. if not, imo, it is a waste of money .. I hope you know of one or else you should find one for futur endevors..

Personally, I would leave him alone and would not ff to often as the amount of stress it inflicts on the animal is more then enough to kill him.

I wish you the best althoguh from the description you give.. it seems doubtfull

Take care
Dom

[Brent Strande]

This thread has finally turned useful! I guess that you really do learn something new everyday!

I've never heard about some jungles just not making it. I didn't even think of that a an outcome during a breeding.

Good luck with her, justinO, but don't get too upset with the first posts (in all reality they aren't bad advice, just not much advice at all...

[Jeff_Favelle]

Dom hit it on the head. Force feeding can be stressful, but so can a trip to the vet. A new set of hands pawing over it, incorrect temps for the trip there, etc etc. That's fine for an adult 6lb snake, but for a teeny tiny runted Jungle, it may do more harm than good. Warm humid cage, offer live fuzzy/crawler mice every 10 days. That's what I would do.

Best of luck.

[Ptindy]

oh yea, I did give useless advice.

[justinO]

yeah well, i don't need PM's from you, Ptindy, saying that i'm a prick and how much i pissed you off....... that doesn't help either.

thanks anyway dude. :p

JESSY

[hooter]

Yeah Ptindy you noob :D

J/p lol. Hey justin keep us updated I would really like to know the outcome with your snake!

[noname]

He didn't call you a prick, or say that you pissed him off JustinO. The point of this thread is definitely not to argue, so I'm sorry if what me, or Mike said offended you, but with the info that was given, the best advice we were able to give you was to take your little girl to the vet. Your husbandry all sounds great, so honestly I don't know what the problem could be. I hope she gets better though - I'll keep my fingers crossed for ya.

Best wishes,
Courtney

[hooter]

Originally posted by noname
He didn't call you a prick, or say that you pissed him off JustinO.

Oh really? I guess you have access to his PM box then huh... Read again, he said that was said in a PM.

[gonesnakee]

Now Now folks, this is about a snake not PMs etc. I'd go with Jeff's advice & its sad but true certain ones just don't make it sometimes. Something I'll state jsut because though is the fact that baby Pythons quite often won't take prey unless it has hair. I've seen baby Carpets refuse pinkies live/dead with zero interest & take a live fuzzy or a D/T one heated right up like right now after only being offered pinky prey. I would try every week to 10 days by placing 2-3 small live fuzzy mice around its enclosure & leave them overnight & hopefully it will eat 1 or more of them eventually. Other than that I'd keep interaction to a bare minimum & place the snake in a nice quiet area also to remove stress factors. Sometimes the FF makes them associate the smell of prey with fear & stress, defeating the purpose & other times it helps turn them on to prey too, a catch 22 thing. A specimen that has to be continually FF usually is one that wasn't meant to be, sad but true. If you as a keeper are doing everything correctly & taking all the steps to try & keep it going, at some point you will have to make a judgement call. Tough call but sometimes its a Live & let die thing, Good Luck Mark

[justinO]

Thanks for the advice everyone. I didn't know that force feeding was THAT stressful. we will limit feedings and general interaction and try some more suggestions.

its sibling is pounding back fuzzy like there is no tomorrow.

Thanks, We'll keep you posted
Justin

[augerdvm]

Justin,
hydration is to key to keeping your snake alive. When it comes to rehydration, oral (by mouth) is the best way to go. use caution if the snake is weak that it doesnt regurgitate the water. a dose of up to 20cc/kg/day should be sufficient. water can be easily tubed into your snake with a minimum of stress. There's even a critical care powdered food for carnivores you can mix up to tube feed your snake....ask your local vet if they can get in in for you.
If you're near the TO area then get ahold of Rick Axelson at the Links Road Animal Hospital...he's one of the best in the area.
Keep the temp up. but remember a sick snake has a compromised immune system and is prone to internal infection and septicemia (infection in the blood).
Have you had a fecal test done on the snake to make sure there are no internal parasites???? pinworm (oxyurid) infestations can quickly debilitate a young animal.
Just a few thoughts...hope all goes well

Daren

[Ptindy]

Originally posted by justinO

So again, any real advice or ideally anyone with experience in this kind of situation would be appreciated.

Mark, any suggestions? [/B]

This is what pissed me off Jessy. Also the fact that you changed your mind about taking your snake to the vet and then yelling. I dunno, shouldn't have gotten all worked up, i'm sorry. Sorry for calling you a prick, yes I called him a prick, at the time I felt you deserved it. Take care and good luck with the girl.

Mike

P.S - What they(everyone else) said.