Black or Andean?

[Andy_G]

I got this girl at the Toronto expo last November, it was sold to me as a Black Milk...I am beginning to wonder about that, she looks very andeanish to me... she is obviously one of the two and she has the typical disposition for both species as well... She has gotten more tipping on the red and white from when I got her and there may be a scale or two that has been completely overtaken by black, but at her size If she was a black milk I would expect to see more black on her then what there is...what does everyone think she is?These are the best shots I could come up with, I can get better if need be...
age->14 months
# of red bands->32
scale rows->20
weight->462 grams
length->40 inches

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v366/Andy_G/Black%20Milksnake/IM001143.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v366/Andy_G/Black%20Milksnake/IM001144.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v366/Andy_G/Black%20Milksnake/IM001156.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v366/Andy_G/Black%20Milksnake/IM001155.jpg

[Classic]

Shes a very nice looking Black Milk Andy. You are right though, it is a large specimen to be still so bright. Be patient, it will darken up. Some black milks keep a their pattern and dont totally darken.
She is a very healthy looking.

Brian
hwh

[vanderkm]

She is a great looking snake, but I can see your concern that she is not turning black sooner. Guess Brian is right - may just require patience and she will come around. She looks like a nice big one either way.

Brian - what are the features that distinguish the black from an andean?? I don't know much about these species but sure do like the black milks that Will has brought out to the last couple ERAS meetings - very impressive snakes! Would like to know more about how to tell them from other species.

mary v.

[Stockwell]

The strong black tipping on the cheeks and snout is very characteristic of Andean milks, as is the high triad count. They are quite variable,and neonate tropical milks can all look fairly similar however at one year of age a female gaigeae should be well into the ontogenetic pigment change and fairly black or close to it and that snake shows no sign of that.
From Williams triangulum systematics gaigeae:"Red rings number 17 to 22" for andesiana"red body rings number from 24 to 37 mean 30.7"
Google "Andesiana" there's lots of links to pics and descriptions
Below is the progression of my Black milks from a month of age to 15 months, to today.
http://www.ssnakess.com/photopost/data/500/1801blackmilksjan03-med.jpg
above: gaigeae at roughly a month of age
http://www.ssnakess.com/photopost/data/500/1801blackmilkyealingfemale-med.jpg
above and below, female at 15 months just under 3 foot
http://www.ssnakess.com/photopost/data/509/1801blackmilkmyfemfeb04-med.jpg
And here she is today at just over 2 years,about 50 inches
http://www.ssnakess.com/photopost/data/500/1801blackmilk2years50inches-med.jpg

[Yness]

I had no idea that black milks were banded when young...that is too cool!

[Will]

They are now around the same age as yours, and yours look to be roughly the same size as my females. They are roughly 90+% black by now. It doesn't really look like yours has even started yet.

Hopefully Brian is right though, maybe its a late bloomer...

Male
http://www.ssnakess.com/photopost/data/509/2033Male2.jpg

Female
http://www.ssnakess.com/photopost/data/509/2033Female1.jpg

Close-up of Head
http://www.ssnakess.com/photopost/data/509/2033Female2.jpg

[Katt]

I don't know much about milks, but at the size and not showing much tipping at all, I'd say Andean for sure. Otherwise, that is REAL late bloomer.

Beautiful snake regardless!!

[Ace]

I don't know Andy, but the older she gets, the more I lean toward Andean (duh). Don't give up hope!!!:D

[MarcB]

That is an Andean you have, the facial markings are a dead give away...

A nice one too.

[Classic]

You are lucky on Marc point Andy. My Andeans are as dark as my Black milks. SHe is a very nice Andean. Very bright and healthy looking. She's a keeper fer sure. Otherwise, let me and i'll take her off your hands.

Brian
HighWaterHerps