Mexican Milk? Jalisco maybe?

[Classic]

I picked this interesting little fellow as a Mexican because he had some aberrances. I've been looking him over and i'm unsure that he is a Mexican milk. I am leaning toward Jalisco but i need a few opinions.

Physical characteristics include
1. The Frontal scale: The rear portion of the frontal scale has a small "U" that opens toward the snout.

2. Pre-Frontal, Nasal, Internasal, Rostral: All have a lighter coloration or for lack of a better term, "Dirty Face" much like the snout of a Sinaloan.

3. Scale Count:
a) White 28 Complete bands, 6 broken.
b) Black 55 Complete Bands, 6 loops(aberrancies)
c) Red 28 Bands, i ommited the hald bands.
4. Belly is checkered and mixed.

5. Weight,lenght and age are irrevelant as it is a young snake but i can provide if it will help.

Thanks for your help and input.

Brian
HighWaterHerps


http://www.ssnakess.com/photopost/data/500/1478DCP_0061-med.JPG
http://www.ssnakess.com/photopost/data/500/1478DCP_0063-med.JPG
http://www.ssnakess.com/photopost/data/500/1478DCP_0071-med.JPG

[Kevin McRae]

Looks like a mexican too me, but I am NO expert:)

Nice snake otherwise...

[crimsonking]

I would say definitely NOT an annulata. Jalisco milk (arcifera) is a possibility for sure. The aberrancies are much like many I've seen.
One of my ruthveni babies looks similar too, though fewer triads.
:Mark

[Stockwell]

Well, its definately not an annulata. Annulata don't have white snouts, they are always black. They also have a distinctive hour glass pattern on the ventrals caused by white that goes right around but red that stops. Annulata have primarily black bellies
My gutt feeling is it's a ruthveni, but it also resembles arcifera and some high triad Nelsoni, although the black is awfully narrow for a Nelsoni . Also conflicting is it has almost too much white on the snout to be a ruthveni,or arcifera but both vary greatly.
Through the last decade many breeders have been het'ing out ruthveni to make albinos, and this has spun out numerous "Normals" and hets that have been spread around often through the pet trades, and at shows.. Now the same applies to Nelsons, and its quite possible of course that they have even been mixed and your snake could be such a mix. Without sound origin info it's next to impossible to ID many triangulum.
This also brings up the possiblilty it might even be an amel carrier.
Since there is no way to know for sure what it is, It would be interesting to test breed it to an amel ruthveni and an amel nelsoni to see if you get any albino babies which would firsly tell you that it was an albino carrier, and secondly should tell you what species it came from, as I don't believe the amel genes from ruthveni and nelsoni are compatible. Of course any offspring from such test breeding would then represent a continuance of the indentification problem for the next guy if they were allowed to be distributed.
Here's a few pics I found.
I used to breed ruthveni and arcifera and mine had blacker snouts than that snake you have.
Send your pics to Bob Applegate and see what he thinks? He's the pioneer of captive triangulum breeding.. If he doesn't know, nobody does

http://galeria.snakes.pl/ruthveni.html
http://cc.usu.edu/~jgjulander/Ruthveni.html

[Vanan]

Dunno what it could be, scalation may help? But one thing's for sure, ain't no annulata.

No wait! It's a mutt from AAA! lol j/k! :D

[jalisco milk]

not sure but i have a jalisco,her white stripes are alittle wider not sure if that makes a diff,i'm no expert. nice pics tho

[gonesnakee]

Vanan getting his digs in LOL I'll have to agree with everyone that it isn't a Mexican, but not exactly sure what it is. It could very well be a het hybrid as stated. I like Unca Roys post, thats what I would have said LOL ya right, but I think he has a pretty good theory there. Mark

[Classic]

Thanks for the input all. I'm looking forward to seeing what Terry has to say Roy.

Brian
HighWaterHerps

[Stockwell]

Terry who??

[Vanan]

Vanan getting his digs in LOL

LOL! You know I had to! :D:D

[Classic]

i always think Terry for some reason when i think of Bob. It must be the 't' for tri-color.

Brian

[bighillreptiles]

looks like a ruthvens to me may be a cross Brian nice to find out for shure,look in the book kingsnakes and milksnakes by Barron's on page 51 looks the same as yours