Is it worth breeding rats?

[VI Reptiles]

Hi, I got my first bp 9 months ago and now im getting 3-4 more next weekend. Is it worth it to get 1.4 Rats or is it not? Im planning by the end of 2005 im gonna have 20 bps hopefully and then im guessing i'l need rats constantly. It costs about 3.00-5.00 for a nice rat up here that is alive but I dont have any trouble putting it in a small box and putting in the fridge for 3-4 hours and letting it die from freezing. Also Im not allowed to keep any Rats/Mice inside because my mom hates them and would kill me if one got out! Since rats dont need heat and the lowest temp it gets out here is -10. I think they could survive as long as there cage wouldnt fill up with water and they would die from drowning and if they would id just put them in the freezer and feed them to my snake. Im thinking maybe 2 males and 8 females would be plenty and after a good year of producing (Febuary - October)they could go in the freezer so im not wasting rats. Tell me what you think cause I need to know soooooon

[mykee]

I don't care if you have one snake, or 100, it's ALWAYS worth it to breed your own rats. Period.

[Vengeance]

Any suggestions for a new setup? I know the preofessional lab rats cages are very good, but they are also $50 a pop. Do rubbermaids work well or dot he rats just chew through the pastic? I've been thinking about starting a breeding colony for a while, just not really sure where to start. Any suggestions on good articles to read or just basic beginner suggestions would be great.

[VI Reptiles]

Im gonna use a 10 gallon for 5 rats with some shreded newspaper

[Vengeance]

See from the research I have done, I was under the impression that the best thing to start off with is a 1.2 rat ratio. You should also have seperate cages from male and females so that your females don't constanly keep becoming pregeneant with no recop time. Also I thought after a month of being weaned (or is it longer) that the rats should be seperated by gender because you don't want your baby rats becoming pregnenant.

[Brent Strande]

I breed my rats in 10gal tanks with screen lids and drop down food hoppers.

Right now the numbers are sporadic, but I'll be going with 1.3 in each and then moving the babies once weaned up to the larger 20gal.

I am undecided on the sex of those that I keep. I'd prefer to kill the males first (for smaller sizes needed) and let the females grow larger since they make less smell, but the males grow faster, so it would maybe be smarter to keep them longer. Any ideas on that anyone?

I'd definitely say that it is worth breeding your own rats!

[Linds]

Originally posted by VI Reptiles
that is alive but I dont have any trouble putting it in a small box and putting in the fridge for 3-4 hours and letting it die from freezing.

That's absolutely awful. That is one of the worst, torturous ways to die. Rats can survive more than 24h in the freezer. Do you have any idea how painful it is to freeze to death? Rats should be disposed of as quickly and humanely as possible, just because they are feeders, does not mean they still aren't living creatures.

Also Im not allowed to keep any Rats/Mice inside because my mom hates them and would kill me if one got out! Since rats dont need heat and the lowest temp it gets out here is -10. I think they could survive as long as there cage wouldnt fill up with water and they would die from drowning and if they would id just put them in the freezer and feed them to my snake.

Rats will not breed in extreme temperatures. I keep mine at 55-65 degrees year round. Anything below 50 or above 75 is insufficient. As for whether or not breeding rats is worth it or not, I personally believe it is worth it for the quality control in itself, as you never really know what you are feeding unless you feed it yourself. However, due to your practices and restrictions, I would recommend purching frozen feeders from a bulk supplier (stores cost through the roof).

10 gallon tanks are much too small for a colony with multiple females. Sometimes when I am retiring a female from breeding, I will remove her to a ten gallon to raise her litter, and it is still quite crowded with just one mom and her rats. If rats are excessively cramped, it will severaly impact their breeding activity. babies WILL be trampled to death, and possibly eaten as well.

[Syco]

Linds, you took the words right out of my mouth! All my rats are raised in 3ft long rubbermaid bins with screen lids and I keep one male and 3 or 4 females in them. They get "way" crowded right before the babies are weaned and I've been thinking about going to 1.2 in these cages. The only thing 10 gals would be good for would be mice and 1.4 would fit nicely.
As far as freezing to kill rats...... whack em hard and get in over with or use CO2.

[VI Reptiles]

Ok, I will get a bin and some adults in a couple days. But as far as killing or stunning them goes my parents wouldnt approve of using a big stick and wacking a rat. That even sounds more cruel!
Is there a way of suffocating the rat? Without me actually holding it!

[damzookeeper]

I second, or rather third, that Linds. I have my trio in a 20 gallon right now and I find that is too small for them. I don't like the rubbermaid because these guys are my pets and I like to see them but I will be looking for a larger tank for them in the future. I also have found out that I can't wack these guys like I can the mice, they are just too darn cute! lol, I have to do it when they are first born or take them to a friend and have him do it and freeze them for me and I'll pick them up later. I just can't do it. I know I'll cry like a baby! My rats get nutra blocks and tons of treats each day. They are my spoiled little bratts. lol. I would NEVER even think about putting them in a 10 gallon. I want to get them a nice large wire cage in the future, it's just hard to find cages that the babies wont escape from. :(

Anyway, I think the best thing for you (VI), would be to buy them fozen, unless you can be sure you are going to feed them a wel balanced diet to benefit your snakes and a clean environment as well. I use aspen for my rats.

http://www.reptilerascals.com/rats2004-09-26%20005.jpg

[Jeff_Favelle]

Is there a way of suffocating the rat? Without me actually holding it!


Ummmm..... are ya sure that getting into snakes is the best thing for you??? Hmmmmmm...........

[Artemis]

See, im too much of a softie. If I tried to breed I would just end up with a rat colony to feed, too. I dont think I could kill them. I love going to the pet store and getting them out of the little chicken cutlet looking trays, already nicely dead and frozen. It is pricey, Ill admit, im paying a $1.50 for a small rat right now. But its not so bad, 3 bucks a week I can live with. Plus its less messy than having more animals to take care of. I just bring em home, individually bag em, and have snake frozen dinners in the freezer with the lean cuisines.

Good luck breeding though, depending on where you live and how pricey they are, I cant say I blame ya. Maybe make your own little gas chamber and kill them humanely.

Artemis

[Tim_Cranwill]

In my opinion, it's not worth it if you only have a few snakes (1-10). Why put up with the stink and do the extra work just to save a tiny bit of money? (Savings = cost of rats + food + housing + chips + time and etc - the cost of frozen rats.)

If you have a medium collection (10-50), I would say it might be worth it to keep a few colonies around. But it really depends on how willing you are to spend more time caring for rats than your snakes and what price you can score frozen rats for. :)

I have a few colonies and plan to get a bunch more going but I find it a real chore to clean those buggers. :p I don't plan to totally feed my collection but it will be nice to see if I can put a big dent in my feeder bill.

Anyway, to each his/her own and power to you if you DO feed your entire collection with rats YOU produce. I'm somewhat jealous! lol :D

[Brent Strande]

I've only got 8 snakes and then a good friend has ~5 more and I'll be breeding to feed all of them. Even if it was just for me it would be saving money.

I could get them from the local shops for ~$5 apiece, which is insane! I could also order from Rodentpro, but then I'd have to add quite a bit on for shipping, plus spend big bucks all at one time. The price of breeding on my own is still cheaper, plus I don't have to shell out hundreds at one time. Then, I can just start freezing as I build up a surplus... if I get too many I could most likely sell some of em off to local herpers (if there are any! LOL)

[exotic_66]

omg breeding rats was so much harder than i thought lots of work involved!
I wanted to start breeding rats and and one of my coworkers decided that we should do it together and we would split the money for everything and all the rats would stay at her house and i come over sometimes to help clean them out so i was like hmm pretty good deal ...NEVER AGAIN i spent like 300 dollars on the rats and cages and food and stuff and behind my back she sold most of the rats and never gave me any of the money! so basically i lost so much money! omg never again breeding rats!
~NESSY~

[mykee]

Um yeah, if you're not comfortable killing a rat, then maybe snakes aren't the pet for you.

[Linds]

Originally posted by Tim_Cranwill
Why put up with the stink and do the extra work just to save a tiny bit of money? (Savings = cost of rats + food + housing + chips + time and etc - the cost of frozen rats.)


Quality control :cool: You never really know what's going on with your feeders unless you breed them yourself. Even buying from 'reputable feeder breeders' leaves a window for the unknown. Buying from pet stores is absolutely frightful... not only do you have the quality of the feeder before it arrived to worry about, but yet still the conditions it has been stored in and the pathogens it has come in to contact with. No matter how good the store... employee touched reptiles and their messes then touches your feeders which in turn get fed to your snake :eek:

I've been breeding my own feeders even when I had a small collection. Now it's pretty much mandatory due to the size of it. The work sucks, but I only spend around $40/month to maintain 200+ rats, and I am sure of their quality :cool:

[Tim_Cranwill]

Touché! :D

Great points, Linds. :)

[VI Reptiles]

Heh, when you think 3.00 a week, then you think a month, then u think a year, it gets quite expensive $144 to be exact! Think of what you could have bought. You could have bought 3 colonies with that and there boxes! Ok, the food and time comes out of your pocket but I have plenty of food and time! I used to have 10 g-pigs and that was hard to clean cause there pee is like acid and u want to make sure it would be all nice and clean ( countless hours of cleaning with bleach). I used to buy there food in bulk, iv got 3-4 boxes about 80 lbs each so I think I could last a year or more. Also I think maybe an adult rat is about $6.00! I can buy 2.6 for $36 and 2 big containers for $60-$70 and already I have $70 for food and other necessities. Jeff & mykee, I would kill a rat by hitting it only if i really really needed food then and there! Oh, I guess id have nothing better to do but do drugs cause snakes are my only interest! But im sure you wouldnt give a **** if there was another drug lord out there or another drug buyer. Sorry to be so rude but I love my reptiles to much to be told I shouldnt keep them. Who knows, you could be buying from me one day but if I was a druggy you couldnt buy any snakes from me cause I wouldnt have any!!!!!
As i said before, Sorry im just not into hearing "you shouldnt be keeping snakes"

Thats just my thought though

[Mister Internet]

Originally posted by VI Reptiles As i said before, Sorry im just not into hearing "you shouldnt be keeping snakes"

Yoo hoo, did you read what they said? Please read below:

Originally posted by mykee Um yeah, if you're not comfortable killing a rat, then maybe snakes aren't the pet for you.

What people are trying to tell you is that snakes cost time, energy, and money, and not necessarily in that order. If you are unable to kill your own feeders, then it is your responsibility to buy them pre-frozen... yes, it's more expensive, but if you are not going to kill the ones you would breed HUMANELY, then you shouldn't be doing it at all. Putting a rat in the freezer is about the worst possible way to kill... yes, it is just a rat, but have the decency to kill it by breaking its neck or throwing it into a CO2 chamber (not hard at all to make). That's ALL people are saying...

[damzookeeper]

Originally posted by mykee
Um yeah, if you're not comfortable killing a rat, then maybe snakes aren't the pet for you.

I don't agree with that. I'm not comfortable killing rats. I don't think anyone should be "comforable" with it, that's just sick. lol. I would however if I absolutely had to to feed my snakes because I would never feed anything larger than a fuzzy live but I get attached easy and it wouldn't come easy. But anyone that isn't comfortable killing a rat can always buy frozen, that's what the breeders are there for. ;)

[damzookeeper]

What people are trying to tell you is that snakes cost time, energy, and money, and not necessarily in that order. If you are unable to kill your own feeders, then it is your responsibility to buy them pre-frozen... yes, it's more expensive, but if you are not going to kill the ones you would breed HUMANELY, then you shouldn't be doing it at all. Putting a rat in the freezer is about the worst possible way to kill... yes, it is just a rat, but have the decency to kill it by breaking its neck or throwing it into a CO2 chamber (not hard at all to make). That's ALL people are saying...

Now this I agree with. :D

[justinO]

I've been surprised by the replies.... i thought a lot more people would have jumped down on this guy for the stuff he said.

FIRST, (I agree with linds), and to add for simplicity: RATS NEED HEAT. They can not survive in cold temps, and I don't know why anyone would think a MAMMAL would survive in -10!!!!!!

SECOND, if you can not kill a rat, and obviously do not know how (holy HELL do not put them in the freezer, how mean can you BE???), learn about it first before even thinking of raising them. It sounds like CO2 would be your best bet.

What else, oh, I don't think that before you have at least 5 snakes that it's worth raising your own rats (agreeing with Tim). It takes up alot of time, and your parents would have to be VERY tolerant of them and the SMELL , which is sounds like that are not.

They DO COST MONEY, initial cost, food, chew stuff, GOOD bedding..... and then the price it will cost you to live on your own when your parents kick you out because of the smelly rats. heh

As for the drug thing, where the hell did that come from? This shows your total immaturity and puts even more doubt on you. I am all for younger people getting into herps, for example my brother is 14 and I plan to make sure he's DAMN responsible for these wonderful animals. It sounds like the most responsible thing for you to do is to buy them frozen. It will cost you a LOT more than $150 to raise them yourself.


Jessy.

[VI Reptiles]

Mister Internet, Ummmmmm, im quite familiar with the fact that they cost money and energy. Ok, if you give me directions I will go out and get the stuff for a CO2 chamer so I wont have to break there necks! Just to burste your bubble JustinO, How the heck can mice and rats survive in alberta where it gets -30?????? By the end of this year im gonna have 10 snakes, id rather have it all started then have to start and wait for a nice supply to appear! As I said I used to have g-pigs and they were hard to clean and I still got everything I had (bedding, food and stuff to chew on) Umm the smell is why i was gonna keep them outside but if they cant be kept outside i'l keep them in our basement. Easy as that! Ummm the drug thing came from the madness in my head! I said that because he was saying that maybe I shouldnt be in the snake buisness because I couldnt kill a simple rat!! If somone would say that to you wouldnt you get mad???????????? Man, im responsible for my reptiles and they make my life go around!! I do so much for my damn snake just to get more and for my parents to trust me with them is hard enough!

[mykee]

Jessy; you nailed that one. Thanks for saying everyhting I wanted to say.
Damzookeeper; that is why you should not be breeding your own rats. BTW, breeding you rown rats DOENSN'T mean feeding live rats. That's just silly.
VI Reptiles; You have one snake! What am I going to buy from you? Urates! (a urate is 'snake waste').

[justinO]

I still think it's a bad idea in all ways.

FINALLY I see you are from Alberta, which i know is a RODENT FREE PROVINCE. If you get caught raising rats, you are in HUGE trouble! They take that stuff really seriously over there as far as i know.

Also, I see you've had over TEN reptiles die on you? WOW. I don't know what else to say.

[VI Reptiles]

mykee, thats just too funny, what are you gonna buy from me?????? probably nothing now, but in the future you might. Well, sor-ry! I only lived there the first 8 yrs of my life...... how the hell would an 8 yr old know that? That was just an estimate!! most of those reptiles I got when I was 8 didnt have a computer and got frogs as pets as well as 1 salamander and 2 leopard geckos! The leopard geckos lived 15 good years. Sorry to say the pet shops give in-adequent info so I didnt do to well with most of my beginning reptiles. The leopard geckos were 10 yrs when I got and died from natural causes! The chameleon was WC so it came with mites and other problems and things I wouldnt pay $100 for. I havent had any reptile die for a couple years now so Im happy.

[damzookeeper]

Originally posted by mykee
Jessy; you nailed that one. Thanks for saying everyhting I wanted to say.
Damzookeeper; that is why you should not be breeding your own rats. BTW, breeding you rown rats DOENSN'T mean feeding live rats. That's just silly.
VI Reptiles; You have one snake! What am I going to buy from you? Urates! (a urate is 'snake waste').

Mykee I don't feed live rats. I do however feed live fuzzy mice to my ksb as he wont eat anything else. I got him that way and he is a stuborn snake, went 3 weeks without eating because it wasn't live. I can co2 my rats but I can't bring myself to wack them just yet. Eventually it will come easier like it did with my mice, but until then I have a sicko friend that is more than happy to do that for me. Don't worry it's fast and human. I actually buy most of my rats frozen but I just started breeding them to lower the cost of feeders. I think partly my problem is that the three parents are my babies, my spoiled rotten pets, so it's hard to kill their babies. I have no problem with the mice.
My point though was that people shouldn't get a thrill out of killing any living thing even a rat and that it should be done quickly and humanly. I know it has to be done for my snakes to eat, but it isn't a fun or a comfortable thing for me. Something I will do because the snakes need to eat and although I wont have nightmares over it I don't have to be happy about it or comfortable with it. That is all I was trying to say. I'm guessing it came over differently. Yes, I love my adult rats so it makes it a bit hard to wack their babies, that 's all. Kind of like feeding snakes to snake eaters or lizards to lizard eaters, when you are attached to snakes and lizards. And I know there are some keepers out there that have snake and lizard eaters that wont accept anything but.

[mykee]

Damzookeeper; thrill! Who said anything about getting my jollies from killing rats? I kill them because my snakes need food. Unfortunately MY rats don't come out of Mommy 150g, pre-frozen, and individually ziplocked.
VI Rep: Wow, a few years without killing an animal! Hip hip hooray! As for me buying stock from you, don't hold your breath son.

[damzookeeper]

gezz mykee, I didn't say "you" were getting a thrill out of killing rats at all. I'm done with this post, I can't make myself understood and it's getting very frustrating. Seems like everything I say comes back to bite me in the a$$. I'll just shut up now.

[Brock]

I'm also looking to start a colony of rats. I go through about 20 pinkies a month. How many females would I need to supply about 20-25 pinkies a month?

-Brock

[VI Reptiles]

mykee, what reptiles you got???? Brock, probably 1-2.

[mykee]

Balls; 36.

[daver676]

VI Reptiles,

Check out this link on building your own CO2 chamber:

Click here (http://www.alysion.org/euthanasia/)

As for throwing rats in the freezer to kill them, that just sounds lazy to me. I can't wack a rat to feed my snake either (just a softy here), but I'm a bit more humane then freezing the stupid thing to death. That is just not cool. I built this CO2 chamber, and it works off of vinegar and baking soda! HAHA! I love chemistry!

[RepTylE]

What I am looking at in addition to saving a little money is that I can raise the rats to exactly the sizes that I need rather than being disappointed when I go to buy some feeders. Not only that but I never know how long the rats have been in storage at the store. I don't have many snakes so I don't have to run too many rats in my breeding colony. I believe that it is economical to do it. If I get overstocked, I am sure that someone locally would be happy to buy my excess at bargain prices.

[MouseKilla]

If you think putting them in the freezer is cruel you should see what I do! I take them away from their mothers, put them in containers all alone and shout insults at them once a day until they commit suicide or die of lonliness. lol!

Honestly though, I didn't like bonking the first several rats but after you've done it enough times it becomes a pretty neutral chore, no more pleasant or unpleasant than changing the paper in a cage. It hasn't become fun for me but it no longer bothers me in the least to kill off a freezer load of rats.