"Feed them as much as they'll eat"...

[HeatherRose]

Hey guys...

In the boid forums (don't spend much time in the colubrid forums, so this might be the case there as well) I often see people asking if feeding such and such amount of mice/rats in so many days is ok...and sometimes the answer is 'feed them as much as they'll eat'...

If a person 'eats as much as they'll eat', they can become obese, extremely unhealthy and die from a barrage of complications. If you overfeed some fish (like goldfish), they will eat themselves to death. I'm not supposed to overfeed my kitty, because she'll become overweight, leading to complications. I was always told to not overfeed my quarterhorse/halflinger mix because horses can't regurgitate properly if needed. Some of these animals aren't domesticated, like reptiles aren't. Are reptiles instincts more refined, and so they can regulate themselves in what they eat? If not, why is overfeeding not such an issue? What kind of problems does reptile obesity lead to?

Discuss...:D

[katev17]

Explosion??

I think it kind of differs between each species you're looking at ... I know with my chameleon, he DOES have a threshold level at which he'll stop eating... I think you also have to look at the competition.. with fish, if you have a tank of fish, they might just keep eating because they think if they pass up the chance now, they might not get another one sometime soon... make sense?? Plus reptiles regurge (MMMMMMMM) so I think if they do take too much, they'd just regurge it..

Although then again, it probably differs between species, individuals, etc. etc ... My cat pretty much decides when he's gonna eat, so it's really hard to overfeed him... He'll only eat what he feels like, so ... yea... I dunno, I think the other issue is WHAT you're feeding.. For my cat, if I just feed him his food he'll eat it just until he's not interested or until he's full... but when he gets a treat, like chicken or something, he doesn't pass up the opportunity to lick the bowl clean!!

So....

I guess I have no idea.
HMMMM...
Maybe I should have gone to biology class this morning??

:D KATE

[Tim_Cranwill]

Here's the deal, that "feed them as much as they will eat" idea only applies to two types of situations.

1) Young snakes that put all or most of the calories they consume towards growing. Somewhere up to 12 or 18 months in my experience.

and...

2) Breeding females that put those calories towards storing fat for the breeding season. They need the food before AND after the breeding process from preparing/cycling to egg-laying/giving birth.

It would be crazy to feed an adult male "as much as he will eat". There is not point to that. He won't put those calories to anything other than getting fat and unhealthy.

So, the advice is good and can be hugely beneficial under the right circumstances and with the proper criteria being met. As always, it's best to find a few sources that YOU trust before you take any advice from sites like this. After all, it's the animals that suffer when we make uninformed decisions. :)

So there's your answer.! :D

[Matt_K]

Goldfish are stupid fish, what more can you expect from them?? :P (please Shane, Don't cyber slap me)

I'm gonna have to agree with Tim on this.. The only thing I would 'feed as much as they'll eat' would be Hatchlings and Adult Females that im about to breed.. And even with the hatchlings I tend to not go overboard.. Unless of course we're talking BP hatchlings.. IM sure many of the people here have experienced a BP off feed..

What kind of problems does reptile obesity lead to?

Obese snakes run higher risks of digestive, heart, and reproductive problems. as taken from HERE (http://www.angelfire.com/wa3/helpforsnakes/whatmakesasnake.html)

-Matt

[HeatherRose]

Cool stuff...

I'm not condemning it, nor am I thinking of doing it with my snakes, as I've found a method that works for them and myself. I'm genuinely curious about why this is regarded as acceptable for herps, but not small or large mammals, humans or other animals...:)

[marisa]

I myself don't play by the feed it as much as it will eat rule. Although I am not against it, I just do not practice it.

For young snakes, under a year old, I feed twice a week if I can, and normally more than one prey item.

But for anything older, I offer once a week, if they are hungry, great. The pythons I feed as much as they will take. But with colubrids I am quite strict. My adult males only get fed twice per month during peak times, but I do feed them more before and after brumation. But aside from that if they even look pudgy, I reduce prey size, and feeding frequency.

I feel a bigger issue is the amount of exercise snakes (mainly colubrids) are given in captivity. I myself use a rack system but more and more everyday I am looking into larger caging with room for climbing and travelling.

Marisa

[Linds]

I dont believe snakes should ever really be fed 'as much as they will eat', regardless of age. Obviously snakes can be fed varying amounts, and I do feed some youngsters and breeding females more than the rest (lol... and yes young balls kept fed more than i would feed any normal hatchling :p), but within reason still. In the wild, snakes are not provided with a consistent variety of prey to feast on, but rather sporadically. Not to mention, that they get in to 'feeding mode' during feeding periods, in which they will eat just about anything (which is why so many people use this time as an opportunity to switch prey types). I have a few that stay in it for quite some time, and continuously strike at any outside movement for a while after each feed. These issues combined, and in captivity, snakes will most certainly consume more than they ideally should. They simply weren't designed that way, hence they do have the propensity to overeat.

[Jeff_Favelle]

It only works with SOME snakes and even then, only those of certain ages or times of year. Its like ANY OTHER RULE ON THE PLANET. It DOESN'T apply all the time. So to say that every boid should be fed as much as it can eat all the time is dumb. Just like saying that because Womas like it at 95F that must mean that other pythons like Diamonds and Boelens like it that hot as well.

THINK. More herpers need to do just that. No one here in particular, but if people just reasoned things through or spent 5 minuts thinking about a topic, the answers are usually obvious.

[Tim_Cranwill]

I'm not talking about feeding a 1200g ball python 3 small rats every other day. I'm more talking about feeding that same snake 1 small rat every 2 or 3 days... and that is ONLY for THIS time of year and JUST following egg-laying. Just to get them into shape for breeding season and BACK into shape after breeding season.

So I guess it's not "exactly" feeding them "as much as they will eat". It's more of just feeding them MORE than normal at certain points in their lives. That is why just blindly taking advice from forums is not the best idea. It's ALWAY necessary to be able judge each scenario for each animal before you go and make important decisions.

Anyway, keep fit and have fun! :p :)

[Andy_G]

To keep it simple, 4 words...breeder ball python females...:)

[Matt_K]

Originally posted by Tim_Cranwill
Anyway, keep fit and have fun! :p :)

Body Break??? Man, I can't stand those two... Use to live near them :medangry:

[Tim_Cranwill]

C'mon!!! Hal and Joanne are one of Canada's ONLY super couples!!!! :D lol ;)

[Matt_K]

Yes, and they're ALMOST as annoying as the Canadian Tire couple!!!

[Jeff_Favelle]

LOL, seriously! Toooo annoying for words. All 4 of those people!

[Andy_G]

Don't get me started on those SICK freaks!

[nita]

LMAO, I remember Body break from when I was a kid and those two are still at it!!

I feed my baby BP's every 3 days, at least that is how often I offer. I will offer 2 mice each time. Whiplash who is 2000g at 12yrs old will eat a 500g rat every week to 2 weeks, if he isn't hungry he doesnt' eat.

My cat by the way never had an empty food dish and most people thought she was small. I strongly believe that almost any animal that has a constant food source will only eat what it requires. If you are limiting the food given the tendency to binge when given the opportunity is high.

[Artemis]

Nita, you rock! I totally agree. Even if weight control is needed, you should be able to tell that visually. If you have to ask if your animal is fat, it probably isnt. The key there was offer, also. I think its better to offer more frequently than not especially with boids who are notorious for feeding issues. If they will eat them when offered, and they arent visually about to pop, in that repsect I agree with the quote "feed them as much as they'll eat."

[Cruciform]

We have a 27 pound cat, 17 pound cat, and a seven pound cat.

The 27 pounder barely eats anything. He'll meow and meow to be fed if the dish is empty, walk up, take two bites and walk away.

The other two cats eat until the bowls are empty.

Animals are are just as unique and weird as their owners :)

[Linds]

Originally posted by Artemis
If you have to ask if your animal is fat, it probably isnt.

Most people I know have overweight dogs and/or cats, and feel that their animals are in perfect health and weight, and some get quite offended if anything otherwise is implied. Many captive reptiles are also overweight (leos and large contrictors are the ones that stand out in my mind the most :rolleyes: ).

Cruciform,
Have you had your big kitty at the vet? Reason I ask, I had the opportunity many years ago to take in a 40lb cat. He was awesome, but you would swear he starved himself... barely picked at his food. He had a thyroid condition however that went untreated for quite some time which led to his situation.

[Artemis]

Really? I know lots of people who are in denial about themselves and their human family members being fat, but I have yet to meet anyone who carries that over to their pets also. Most I know with fat pets just make light of it and say how cute it is.

I have cats about like cruciform does, except my biggest of the three is 32 pounds now. They all eat about the same amount of food a day, and he wont touch the weight control food.

[Siretsap]

Originally posted by Cruciform
Animals are are just as unique and weird as their owners :)

Héhéhé you saying you are weird? ;-)

[Cruciform]

Linds, yup, he's been to the vet, and other than a skin condition that started when we moved into the new house he's healthy. That's getting to be a problem though. He's due back for a followup shortly.

Artemis, we tried the weight control food too. And it just made the cats permanently hungry and pooping over 3 times the volume, because of all the filler. We're just going to put in a cat run behind the house eventually and get him his workout outside.

Siretsap: Are you saying you're not? :p Heheh.