Please Help

[Lindze]

I received a Cali King today and boy is she in a horific state.

She has shriveled belly scales and missing scales on her side. Also it looks like she didnt slough off her last shed.
she doesnt seem to spunky.

Could anyone give me any advice as how to treat her.

Thank you

[vanderkm]

Just caught this thread and noticed that you hadn't had any responses. Hope she has not deteriorated too much since you got her but didn't sound like things were an emergency yet.

As far as advice - most of it is likely what you are already doing. The missing scales and retained shed will come off with the next shed if you keep her well hydrated (even eyecaps can stay on in several layers). You might want to see if there is retained shed on her tail tip - that can cause gangrene and loss of the tail if not dealt with right away.

The shriveled belly scales may be more of an issue and indicate dehydration - how old is she?? - more likely to be a real problem in baby snakes. If she is a little one, it may be worth giving her a soak in a very humid tub - can use gatoraide and water combined - make paper towels dripping wet and put them and snake into a rubbermaid tub (with breathing holes) that you keep at the warmer side (about 78-80 degrees is ok, don't want it too hot) of the tank for several hours to overnight. This will help get hydration back - if you think you need it. I prefer to give them access to water and see if they drink before going this route if they seem basically healthy. This type of forced hydration will help just before a shed as well to get rid of the old stuff that is hanging on.

I would set her up in as simple an enclosure as possible - paper towel for bedding (easier to see mites if she has them), washable secure hidebox and fresh water (position the bowl along the edge of the tank so she can find it - they tend to cruise the tank edges more than the middle) with appropriate heat range (70 cool side, up to 85 high side of tank).

Then don't handle her at all for first week. I would offer her an appropriate sized feeder mouse after a week and if she takes that you can offer these with wet fur (or can inject water into the dead mouse's belly if you can handle needles!) to make sure she is staying hydrated.

Anyway - a few ideas - sorry they are so late - hope she is doing better now.

mary v.

[Vanan]

Hydrate hydrate hydrate! Go to your local pharmacy and get some Pedialyte and a syringe and rehydrate her. More than often, it's dehydration which kills stressed animals.

After giving her fluids, place her in a wet pillowcase (this if it's an adult or older snake, not hatchling). Leave her in it for about 30-45 minutes. Take her out, then hand shed her. You don't have to get every singel bit of old shed out. Mostly those parts which are full around the body. Those parts can shrivel up when dry and stress your snake out.

Other than that, follow Mary's excellent advice on aftercare.

Remember, hydration first then everything else. Don't even bother trying to feed her now. Snakes can go a long while without food.

[rwg]

I cant find it now, but I recall reading somewhere that a snake suffocated in a wet cloth bag doing this sort of thing. If it's very wet, it wont breathe so make sure if you do this to wring it (the bag, not the snake...lol) out well. Damp, not wet.

rg

[Vanan]

True rwg. Thanks for bringing it up. The breathability of the material can end up suffocating the snake since the wet fibers cling together. Wringing the pillowcase slightly would help.

[Katt]

I recall that Roy had a ball python that suffocated in a wet pillow case, the material wasn't breathable. Always check any animal left in a wet pillowcase.

[Hara]

yes hydrate hydrate.. I cant give any other advice then what you have already gotten. You can try to run some tepid water in the bath tub or sink and just let her set in it for 15 to 20 mintes at a time avery 4 hours if you have the time for it. and the old shed will come off when she has a nice full shed. If shes small, and can take food I would try also to give her food and use a syringe and inject the prey with spring water thatwill get liquid in her faster then soaking.l

Keep us posted I wish you the best of luck
God Bless
Hara

[Lindze]

Well she is doing much better. She had a Bad infestation of mites, and well those are going, not nearly as bad anymore. She is moving around and doing good and due to shed any day.
Thanks for the advice everyone. Soon she will be going to a friend who has more room to have her, my space is very limited at this time. Im not sure what it was but she is doing a lot better than what she was when i took her in.

Thanks again everyone

[gonesnakee]

Run a search on this site for the Nix treatment for Mites by Nathan Curtis, myself & several other breeders swear by it. They are probably what caused all the problems in the first place. Damn I hate mites GRRRR!!! Mark
P.S. assume that all your snakes probably have Mites now also or at the very least monitor them all very closely for a while if you have others that is.

[Lindze]

Actually she has been treated with nix and she was not in the room with my other snakes so thats a bonus. But just to be on the safe side i am going to treat all of them. so im going to keep my fingers crossed and hope for the best.

[gonesnakee]

Ya it would really be crappy for you to experience an outbreak in your collection in a month over a little prevenative medicine. A little prevention goes a long way & can save major hassles. Mark

[Lindze]

Well this isnt good, today the girl took a turn for the worst. I soaked her as she just came "out of the blue" a few days ago and i decided that i should soak her (i used a product call ProMolt that was suggested by my local vet) just to help as her last shed i was not yet able to get off of her. Well she went "nuts" during it. She started striking at nothing and twitching. Then when i put her in her enclosure she lifted about 1/3 of her body straight up and made this really weird hiss like noise.....but it wasnt a hiss....she is also 'twitchin' like someone is touching her and she is trying to avoid it...I havent noticed any labord breathing, mucus, and she has been eating, BUT she hasnt been lively the past few days either.
If anyone knows whats going one please help, i dont wanna lose this girl. Thank you in advance....



p.s. ive never had any of my snakes do this and im willing to drive the 7.5 hours on sunday to be at the vets by monday morning as the herp vet lives that far

[marisa]

What exactly is this "ProMolt"

Snakes, not even badly treated ones, need *nothing* but a little water/hydration to shed. They do it all on their own. No products are ever ever needed for a snake to shed. In fact, there could have been something harmful IN that product. What are the ingredients? This might not be the case at all, but you never need to buy or use anything on a snake for shedding except maybe a humid cage/humid hide, and a soak or two.

Also, Cal kings are extremely jumpy, and my females act exactly like you describe when they throw "tantrums" they jerk around almost like a seziure, sometimes gaping thier mouth and striking at nothing. Are you sure it was a medical problem and not an overly aggresive display?

Marisa

[Lindze]

Hey she has retained TWO known sheds, and wasnt doing good. I took advice from a vet and now im in s***??? The tank humidity was up and she was doing GOOD until today. Then it was back to square one. Trust me this snake IS by no means aggresive, or hyper or throws tantrums, i even asked the people who i rescued her from they said she was the sweatest thing. With all the problems she has been having i really think that its more medical then a little attitude.

[Vanan]

Mind you, you are dealing with a calking. Meaning, there is no such thing as a 100% tame calking. I've had calkings which were used for shows with kids handling them all day long. They're fine then, try offering a food item on a day they wanna stay slim and they act hissy and arch their bodies and flinch all over the place. Sounds to me that her reaction wasn't medical but more like "Leave me alone, I've had enough for one day!". :)

Are you doing the wet pillowcase method? Don't matter if you even have 2 or 3 old sheds retained, it works. If all the shed's not coming off, it's probably cos it wasn't left in it long enough.

Seems otherwise that your snake's fine (since she's eating too) but then again, you'd know better. Please do keep us posted. We have a lot to learn from this.

[Tim_Cranwill]

Here's a trick I find works well.

- Get a Rubbermaid the snake will "barely" fit in.
- Find a towel that will "just" fit in that bin.
- Soak the towel in warm water (not hot) and ring it out... but not too well.
- Put the snake in the bin.
- Put the towel in the bin and snap the lid on.
- Leave the snake in the bin with the towel over night and on a heat pad.

Try to get a towel that is nice and absorbent and new. It should have lots of "loops"... you know what I mean? Basically a nice, thick one.

Anyway, the snake will be forced to move about the bin and rub the damp towel all night. I find this method works much better than the old pillow case trick... IMO.

Give me a call if you want some more tips... 204-269-2502

[marisa]

When "sick" snakes start feeling better they can start acting normal, which means jumpy for a cal king.

A snake that has been treated poorly and is tired from bad sheds and lack of food will "seem" friendly because it can't be bothered to fight back.

Marisa

[vanderkm]

As Vanan has said, if she is eating she is not in a 'seriously ill' state. The behaviour you describe sounds to me like an irritated cal king, not the stage of a serious illness but it is impossible to know for sure without seeing her. Marisa's last point is a very good one - that this snake may have been ill and depressed before and so she seemed placid and 'tame' to the people who rescued her, and now that she is improving she has more spirit to her.

I really support the suggestion Tim has made - the thick towel in the small tub approach has worked for us with several rescues we have had that came to us with retained sheds. Just make sure the temp in the tub doesn't get too high and that the towel is in warm - not hot water - if it feels warm to you it will be above body temp, so around 100 degrees - and that is pretty warm for a snake that tends to stay at 85 or so.

Best of luck with her - good news that she is eating - that is something really sick snakes won't do.

mary v.

Edit Meant to add - in our experience snakes don't like to be soaked in water or to be forced to actually swim - they don't seem to mind the damp towel nearly as much, but 'soaking' them can provoke them to 'fight back'.

[Vanan]

Tim, that seems like a good method too. Never heard about doing it that way. Will keep that in mind next time I have a stubborn shedder. :)

[Lindze]

Well i got up this morning, and there she was not moving...not even when i touched her, but her tounge did come out for a smell....after she realized who i was she moved a little bit. Today her mouth is gaped open and she is worse then last night. Right now im concerned about her health. Thanks for the tips ill remember them for the future....and her if she gets back to health...but today it doesnt look to good.

[Vanan]

Hmm...if she's gaping and not very active, don't think there's much you can do. A trip to the vet's may very much kill her but it's probably the only shot you have at her getting better. I've seen snakes do that and have not had one survive after it's gone that far. Sorry. :(

[Dark_Angel_25]

Gaping mouth sounds like an RI to me.. maybe up the temps a little bit, and see if that helps, but a vet trip or maybe just getting meds for an RI is probably your best bet...
Can you hear her breathing? like a raspy sound?

[Lindze]

Well i worked at her most of yesterday in little spirts of about 20 min every hour or so as not to stress her out. I manages toget the shed off of her...well most of it, the rest i will be trying to do tonight. But this morning when i got up she was moving around a little and responded when i touched her. She is still gaped mouthed so i have made an appointment in winnipeg next week, i get to drive 7.5 hours on icy roads, but its all worth it.
Im going to keep my fingers crossed and hope that her health keeps improving.

Thanks again to everyone who has helped me

[Tim_Cranwill]

Anytime. :)

I hope your visit to the vet is helpful.

Give me a shout if you still want those adult mice. :)

[Lindze]

Yea Tim, I will be looking you up while im there, always can use some mice, especially adults. Oh, and do you still have that pair of kings for sale? Maybe ill take a look at them if you do.

[Tim_Cranwill]

I'm not selling the adults until after next season now. It's just too close to brumation now.

I do have some really nice '04s left though. ;) :)

[Lindze]

Well keep me in mind for when you are ready to sell them next year.....ill take a look at some of your 04's i guess...see who would be good with what i have. i have a pair of little females who would like a future mate lol ;)

[Lindze]

Just to say Thanks again to everyone for their help. I returned home tonight from out of town with my girl and the vet said she was improving and looks to be alright. Also she said with steady care she will make it.




P.S. I know im a day late but Happy B-day Joe