Not All Pits Are Bad... [Archive] - sSNAKESs : Reptile Forum

jjaj02

09-30-04, 03:07 PM

I hate all this sh*t about big dogs like staffies and rotties and pit bulls being mean. It's all in the way they are brought up. These people buy them because they look big and tough and mean and them train them to be this way. I think instead of putting down the dog they should start putting down the owners. Its their fault the dog is they way he is. If you properly train them from puppy on then you will never have a problem. But its when these jerks that get their hands on these dogs that gives them this bad rep. Same goes with these breeders that breed their dogs to be like this. They should all be shut down. It's really, really sickening to me that these people can get away with breeding dogs to be mean. Here's a story for you.........

I worked at the SPCA in the town I live in for 3 years. The one day I was working in the back and the city police came through the door with this male pittbull named "Turbo". They said that he had bitten a lady in one of the trailer courts. This lady had gone to her rental property to drop off a notice to the renters and she claimed that she had gotten bit and had to go to the hospital and get stitches and everything. When the officer told me the ladies name, I knew right away that her story was a bunch of bullsh*t. I called our hospital, told them who I was and asked if there had been anyone come to the hospital to get stitches for a dog bite, or for that matter stitches for anything. The girl at the hospital went and checked the records and there had been no one come for stitches.....AT ALL. I told the officer this and said that they must be lieing to me because the dog bit right through his coat too. When I asked him to see the bite marks in his coat he turned around and walked away from me. About a half hour after the officers left the vet clinic, who is just across the highway from us, called us and told us that they saw the police bring the dog out. They said that the cops had the dog tied by bailer twine to their mirror on the outside of the car and they were literally dragging this poor dog down the highway. We found out later that they dragged him 6 kms from one side of town to the other like this. When I found this out I was honestly sick to my stomach. How could anyone do that. The end result was that the city had to decide what to do with this dog and he ended up living in the shelter for 3 months. I walked into work one morning and my manager was sitting at her desk bawling. I knew right away that "Turbo" had been euthanized. I couldn't believe it. He was the sweetest dog ever. I had taken him home for a few nights and he was great with my dogs and cats. My dad had him down at his autobody shop for a week in the office with people coming and going and he never even growled at anyone. We tried everything in our power to save Turbo. We even stole him and were going to hide him and tell the police officers that he got out. Unfortunatley one of the other girls at the shelter ratted us out. I don't know what to say. We did everthing we could for him.

Unfortunately the reason it happened was because of ignorant peoples views on those breeds of dogs. But its pretty bad that the officers were just as ignorant.

Shad0w

09-30-04, 03:14 PM

Oh boy...

This thread is going to turn into a monster.. just like the last one :)

Matt_K

09-30-04, 03:15 PM

Just as long as it doesn't get out of hand :D

Shad0w

09-30-04, 03:16 PM

Oh Im pretty sure it will .. peoples emotions are already starting to show :D

Matt_K

09-30-04, 03:23 PM

Something tells me this may another reason why soo many people get Pit Bulls...

http://www.picturesof.net/_gallery/_Animals/_SM/puppies_P2192983_SM.JPG

http://i2.sell.com/2/24/160164/7/184/477544-m.jpg

Are there any cuter looking puppies???

reptiguy420

09-30-04, 03:38 PM

i didnt know that treegirl....and i live in Michigan.Luckily im not a minor so my two red nose pits dont have any thing to worry about.As far as pits and rotts and whatever other kind of dog being aggressive...i think alot of it has to do with how it was raised.Like Matt said your responsible for your dogs actions, and people should be.You bought the dog, you raised the dog, if it flips out and chews off someones leg than its your @ss :)

Samba

09-30-04, 03:50 PM

Hey Guys, I just wanted you to read a GOOD story involving this breed. Please, if you have related GOOD stories about Pits and/or Staffies post them here so others can see this breed is not without it's usefulness. Thanks! =)

Siretsap

09-30-04, 03:58 PM

The problem with these dogs is they were used as fighting dogs. So for many generations, these dogs were bred to become meaner and meaner. The more massive and mean ones were the ones wanted to breed future generations.

So yes these dogs tend to be more agressive cause the genes are there (in certain strains).

It's hard to change history on these dogs, even if your pit isn't an agressive dog, there are strains that are. The fighting dogs was entertaining and legal in past times, now it's underground.

It's our fault these dogs have this reputation cause because of our own ego and wanting to be entertained, we trained these dogs to act like this.

mykee

09-30-04, 04:56 PM

Why keep shooting a dead horse? Hasn't this topic been posted to death?!

hudson

09-30-04, 05:03 PM

No the genes aren't there. In the days when dog fights were legal these dogs were trained and bred to be aggressive towards other dogs, not people. They were also used more than any other dog because of their intense loyalty and willingness to please. These dogs are not monsters right from the start, certain ones only become that way from peoples stupidity.

Siretsap

09-30-04, 05:43 PM

Take a dog who has the genes to dominate. For over 60 years, breed this do with the meanest together. You get a very agressive dog that is trained to be agressive by human with sticks, leather and other dogs. Yes the genes are there, they are there cause they bred the most agressive ones together for many generations.

They are not in all of them, but all the strains that were used for fighting will have a tendancy to be more agressive dogs.

Now, take that dog who tries to dominate, put a child in front of him without supervision, the dog will try to dominate the child if he is dominant, often the attacks occurs after the dog has warned by growling and showing teeth.

A good way to see if the puppy you want to buy is dominant, is by placing your hand on it's head, is he only lowers his head and doesn't try to bite it or move away, then it is submissive, if he does try to get over your hand or tries to bite it, then it will tend to be a dominant.

They do not "want" to please us, they think of us as a higher reign than they are and will obey us. That goes for all dogs.

Often we also overlook how agressive small dogs can be just cause they cannot inflict as much dammage as a bigger dog can. Take bichons for example, a lot of them are dominant by nature and because of us. The dog being so small, we walk him in our arms, we give them table food, let them sleep in our bed, get on the couch, let them eat our slippers... it's all these little things that makes the dog believe he is on top of his owner and they are prob more prowned to bite, how many of you had a little dog bite on your ankle when you went into someone's house only to see the owner laugh and pick him up in his arms??? That is the type of mistakes we all make, and these actions will lead to dominant dogs that are less hesitant to attack cause they do not see us as a higher reign.

WRX

09-30-04, 06:01 PM

The Ontario Coalition of Pit Bull Owners was on CFRB tonight.

Wew.

I'm sorry, but get rid of them. Buy an Alligator and keep it in the bathtub.

BT

nita

09-30-04, 06:04 PM

Bichons of all the little dogs are considered one of the best dogs for children. We had one and she was fantastic!! My DH wants a Pug and I would die to have a rottie!! LOL, I just need a bigger yard, more time to devote to a dog and a fence around said yard!!

mykee

09-30-04, 07:51 PM

It's unfortunate for the breed in general, but it's time they were banned outright. Sorry.

dia

09-30-04, 08:59 PM

My grandparents have a wonderful 3 year old pitbull named Bingo. <BR>
He's a guarddog, which is sadly needed in Trinidad where they live. With the rep that they have Bingo seems to scare off a lot of people - or at least intimidate them. But as mean as he'll act at a stranger through the fense he's a total suck.<BR>
My grandfather was out in the field working with Bingo to keep him company when he fell, smashed his head on something and passed out. Bingo ran back to the house barked, barked and barked until people payed him enough attention, descided to follow him about found my grandfather. It was midday out in the sun, while he might not have died if he's been left out there - it's never a good idea to be unconscience in the middle of a feild durring the heat of summer!<BR>
Bingo is a sweetie, I love that dog. So wonderfuly trained, just like all of my grandfathers dogs. They'll come to him from anywhere that they can hear him when he calls. Stay, sit, heal and what not on command without hesitation. He loves 'em and respects them. As a result they're great companions and keep him safe.

dia

09-30-04, 09:08 PM

In my opinion Pit have their place.
It's not in a city or living in a house.

As people have said they're fight dogs, or at least [for the most part] agressive creatures. While I have many relatives and family friends who keep pits they own large farms or use the dogs as guard dogs. Yes they're still pets but they have a job and were picked for that reason.

I just thought I'd throw this in along with my last post. I'm pro-pits ONLY if they are kept and raised in the right situation.
Would it be too bold to compare them to iguanas in a few sense? A lot of people get them and think they can provide for them or that they will be fine without the proper attention given. As a result you can get agressive problem animals.

Syco

10-01-04, 08:02 AM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by dia
[B]In my opinion Pit have their place.
It's not in a city or living in a house.

Why not in a house? What is the alternative? Outside in a fenced yard, chained up? I don't understand what you are saying here. Most Pits suck as guard dogs, unless you are guarding against other dogs or animals, the were bred to be dog aggressive not people aggressive.
Ours makes an excellent "watch" dog though, she stands at the front door and watches and when she starts "dancing" and wagging her tail you know someone is coming. LOL! We have had her for 5 yrs and she has never bitten anyone and yes she lives in the house (in the city) with us.
I trust her completely, I can take her food bowl from her while she is eating and get nothing more than a confused look from her. That's more than I can say for a lot of the dogs I have been around. No, she didn't come from a good breeder. She was found by the humane society, left to die. She was chain to a tree, pregnant and starving. She has a deformed back leg, malnutrition.... old break from abuse... we are not sure. If any dog had a right to be people aggressive it would be her, but she loves everyone she meets.
Call me crazy, but I want to see people with Pit breeds have these dogs living with them in their house, being properly taken care of and socialized as part of the family, not used as a guard dog and left in the cold. I would also like to see pictures of the offending dog along with these articles because I strongly suspect that quite a few of them are not Pits, they are just being labled as so.

Matt_K

10-01-04, 08:09 AM

Originally posted by Syco
I would also like to see pictures of the offending dog along with these articles because I strongly suspect that quite a few of them are not Pits, they are just being labled as so.

Exactly what I had mentioned in the other thread.. Maybe 1/3 times you actually see a pic of the dog that DID the attacking.. The other two times, it's an image of a Pit Bull with teeth showing..

Syco

10-01-04, 08:32 AM

Exactly Matt! A lot of people don't know the difference between a boxer and a pit. I had a Rottie x Springer Spaniel mix, and was out walking him and had someone ask me if he was a Pit Bull! LOL! This dog was black and rust, floppy ears and bobbed tail. He looked *nothing* like a Pit! I've been to the local pounds and humane societies countless times and seen dogs labled as Pits, I think simply because they didn't know what the hell they were. I believe they should have some sort of training on how to identify dog breeds if they are going to be in charge of lableing them. JMHO

Samba

10-01-04, 09:04 AM

Hey guys, just so you know, I wanted this to be a post about good pit stories... Not to continue the debate on whether pits are good, bad, mean, nice, ugly, yellow, purple, whatever. I just want to read and share POSITIVE stories about this and related breeds, thanks.

jjaj02

10-01-04, 09:07 AM

"It's unfortunate for the breed in general, but it's time they were banned outright. Sorry."

Mykee, expain why you think they should be banned outright.

You know it's kind of a shame that the media and the general public themselves targets large breed dogs such as rottweilers, pitbulls, german shepherds, dobermans, etc. Especially considering that a small breed dog is way more likely to bite than a large breed dog. Yes there are some large dogs that are a little more prone to bitting than others but they are not all bad. I think the only reason some large dogs have got a bad rep while the small breed dogs that bite sit on the sidelines is because WHEN a rottie or a pittie bites they do a little more damage than a toy poodle. But really how many times do small dogs bite and never make the news?????? LOTS!!! I know this because I worked in and Animal Shelter. I've been bitten 4 times and they were a result of small breed dogs. Also if there was one thing I learned working there, I learned that a scared dog is meaner than a mean dog. When you see stuff like that in the newspapers they never tell you what these kids and people were doing to the dog to get bit. 3/4 of the time it was probably the persons own fault. A kid got bit by a rottie where I live and its because he was poking the dog from over top of the fence with a stick. The dog jumped up and finally bit the kid. I would have too!!!!! A person.........or dog can only have so much patience. And I know that if I was getting poked with a stick I would fight back.

John Doe

10-01-04, 09:14 AM

Hi!
I'm a new member on this forum and that's gonna be my first post because all that polemic concerning Pits and such is touching me deeply.

First of all, i own four dogs. 1 female AmStaff, 1 male American bull dog, 1 male Boston bull terrier and 1 mixt Rottweiller German sheppard. I've been owning Staffies and other types of terrier since i'm a kid, witch means about twenty years now and i think that most Staffies owners will agree with me that those dogs sould not be owned by any people who just want a regular house dog, not because they are too agressive but simply because those dogs are too energetics and demanding for a lot of people and i believe those rules apply for almost all terrier breeds.

Sadly, not all people understand the commitments and responsability that represent owning a dog and a lot of people go for the look only, without thinking all the responsabilities that an animal represent. Here in Quebec, we have problems with bad press concerning pits and such only since 1986, knowing that those dogs are around since the late 40's. What happened in 86?FASHION!!!!!!!!! Sadly, irresponsible people who used to owned German sheppards, dobermans, and other type of dogs considered SCARRY at the time, heard about that breed who was supposedly so strong and scarry. At the same time, german sheppard attacks stopped and pit bulls attack started. This pits attack epidemia only last for about a few months but it stayed in the media manipulated public memory since then.

I got bit three times by dogs, (one of these bite almost cost me my balls, no kidding), and the 3 times, it was by german sheppards but as i have always said, i don' t hate german sheppards and each and every times i got bit, it was my fault and also the fault of the owner who keep dogs tied up in the back yard with a four feet chain with a handfull of dried food once in a while right on the ground, no dishes, and the poor animal, always alone with no contact with other dogs or people, (pretty sad for an animal who's supposed to live in a pack).

Now, here is the storry of Maggie, my AmStaff.

Maggie is a rescued dog and i got her when she was about a year and a half, (she is six now). I took her from a guy who was planning using her as a training bait for fighting dogs. As a result, she ended with broken ribbes, and dommage to her back bone due to beer bottle beating. The first few weeks i got her, she was scarred to death of everything, from voice raising to me drinking a beer and other dogs, but after a while, she gained assurance to finally become the most self confident dog and also the best Staffie i ever had, (she's still scared of beer bottle). Would you believe that after all those bad treatments she suffered, she never ever showned any agressivity to any people or dogs. The storry is a lot longer than that but i'll stop here by saying that, there is no bad animals, only bad people who are using them for bad purpose. If they banned a breed, you can believe me that bad people are gonna put energy on a new breed, and so on and so on. in 86, i was saying to people that the next breed to be on the line would be the Rottweilers and i have been proven right. The next one, American bull dogs then the Cane corso etc.........

Shad0w

10-01-04, 09:24 AM

I cannot believe what I saw driving into work today...

I was driving up Sherborne, and I see this guy walking down the street pushing a baby carriage and walking his pitbull...

This guy had the dog off leash... dog was charging up and down the street after squirrels....

I cant believe this stuff goes on in downtown toronto

SEE.. this is the kind of guy that ruins it for everyone.. too bad I didnt have my digicam with me.. otherwise I would have taken pics...

JonD

10-01-04, 09:24 AM

I agree that its the owners who should be taking care of the dogs actions.

The media is the big problem in this whole picture. Like what happened in Toronto area yesterday. Funny how the media puts it front page. Then on the inside page a quote from this boys mother "He was nearly eaten alive"....What is that? The dogs arn't after him for nutritional value. They go on to say that this boy was attacked by two pits.

At the very end of this almost full page article it then states that they boy was in the dog owners back yard cutting the lawn and forgot to tell the owner he was back there. She let out the dogs and they attacked him....Probably because the sound of the lawn mower.

The kid who was attacked said it was his fault for not letting the owner know that he was in the enclosed back yard.... He didn't want the dogs put down for his wrong actions...

All people really read though are the headlines...."another pit attack"....lets ban these killer dogs.

In most to almost all of these cases, it is an error on the owners part.

If you are walking around with a loaded gun so to speak, and drop it. It discharges. The bullet hits some one, do you blame the gun????

****Im not comparing these dogs to guns, just an example****

People need to be responseable, and not blame actions on on an animal that is incapable of making the decision to do harm.

Shad0w

10-01-04, 09:26 AM

Im sorry..

But ANY dog that is willing and VERY ABLE to tear a human apart should be put down... esp if they ever do attack someone... stop making excuses for these animals...

Are you telling me that if a couple of kids hopped some fences (which of you didnt when yonger) and a dog decided to tear the kid to pieces.. this should be condoned or the dog defended? Would you blame it on the kid???

No way anyone should have to worry about such animals...

Just talk to the postal workers / utility workers, they have all too often been mauled by dogs just for approaching a house... There is NO NEED for this!

Syco

10-01-04, 09:32 AM

Samba, I think this is more what you were wanting.
http://www.pitbullpress.com/ARTICLES/atyourservice.html

Sorry, but when you love these dogs and hear everyone putting them down you just
have to jump to their defense. :)

JonD

10-01-04, 09:37 AM

Originally posted by Shad0w
Im sorry..

But ANY dog that is willing and VERY ABLE to tear a human apart should be put down... esp if they ever do attack someone... stop making excuses for these animals...

Are you telling me that if a couple of kids hopped some fences (which of you didnt when yonger) and a dog decided to tear the kid to pieces.. this should be condoned? and would blame it on the kid???

No way anyone should have to worry about such animals...

Just talk to the postal workers / utility workers, they have all too often been mauled by dogs just for approaching a house... There is NO NEED for this!

Umm that might be but this boy was in the fenced back yard of the dog owners, with out the owner knowing...Not an excuse, just facts. And the boy him self accepted that he was at fault. They have beware of dog signs for a reason....

What ever happened to German Sheppards, when I was younger the media was having a field day with them....

Samba

10-01-04, 09:38 AM

Syco

10-01-04, 09:39 AM

I agree. *Any* dog that attacks a person, unless defending his owner, should be put down. That goes for everything from Poodles to Pits, and if our Pit ever attacked anyone (unless she is defending us) she will be put down.

JonD

10-01-04, 09:40 AM

Oh and Shadow talk to postal workers, most have had problems with ALL breeds of dogs, not just a few..

Shad0w

10-01-04, 09:43 AM

Syco,

I absolutely agree.. Im not just picking Pits.. but any dog

Samba

10-01-04, 09:43 AM

After to reading the last few posts that appeared while I was writing my own, I defiantely have to agree that these dogs were defending their territory and their 'pack' members (the family). They didn't know this kid from a rapist, murder, robber, burgler, etc.

Shad0w

10-01-04, 09:44 AM

JonD, Agreed!

Like I said.. my comments are not just directed to just Pits, but every large dog capable of inflicting serious harm to a human

Shad0w

10-01-04, 09:45 AM

Defend the dogs as you Will Samba, (I understand you are defending your dogs)

There is still no excuse... the animals pose an inherent danger to people, rightfully, they should be destroyed.

Syco

10-01-04, 09:48 AM

Here's another one. :)
http://www.pitbullpress.com/ARTICLES/NORTON.html

Samba

10-01-04, 09:52 AM

Shad0w, are you telling me that if some stranger entered your yard without your knowledge or permission and you have NO IDEA what his intentions are that you WANT your dog to do nothing about it????

I think these dogs did the RIGHT thing, and should even be rewarded for their BRAVERY to defend their home and family.

I'd DEFINETLY want my dogs to attack, or at least hold them (I am planning to get them intructed in Shultzhund) which in itself is a misunderstood form of obedience.

Shad0w

10-01-04, 09:55 AM

Samba,

Thats like saying.. if I set up my yard with land mines, and someone decides to hop my fence and cross my yard.. its OKAY that he gets blown up and killed... same logic...

The dogs pose a danger to human, they dont have the capability of knowing the differnece between a bad guy and a good guy.. so they just attack...

Any dog that attacks a human that poses no danger is WRONG! and to reward that kind of behavior is irresponsible and unsocial!

Shad0w

10-01-04, 09:57 AM

BTW.. these dogs were not trying to contain and hold this boy.. they were trying to tear him apart...

JonD

10-01-04, 09:59 AM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Shad0w
Defend the dogs as you Will Samba, (I understand you are defending your dogs)

There is still no excuse... the animals pose an inherent danger to people, rightfully, they should be destroyed. [/QUOTE

Not if a person is on the animals property. Yes I agree that a dog at large attacks someone, they should be put down.

But, a dog or dogs that are trained as guard dog and never leave the yard. In this case the boy knew the people he was cutting the lawn for had these dogs as he cuts on a reg. basis. They were just defending thier territory...

Really each case if different...

Samba

10-01-04, 09:59 AM

It is dangerous and threatening to ANY dog to have his home INVADED by a stranger. As for the land mines... he, I just hope no one jumps in my backyard!!! (Actually, my dogs would probably lick them to death) LOL

Now, I'm sure if the owners invited the *same* person through their home and into the backyard the dogs would NOT have attacked because they know right away their 'Alpha' leaders (their owners) have approved the visitation of this person. Dogs aren't stupid, just people.

This thread is so NOT turning out how I wanted it to...

BTW, Thanks Syco (sp?) I really appreciate you posting those stories! Believe it or not I've had the time to read them in between arguements, and I think they are incredibly inspiring; esp. the one about Norton. Anyone who opposes pits should read these stories... =)

Shad0w

10-01-04, 10:04 AM

LOL.. Samba,

Landmines... BOOM! :)

Samba

10-01-04, 10:06 AM

When I said that my dogs would probably lick "them" to death, the word "them" was referring to strangers entering the yard... Not Landmines... LOL

Shad0w

10-01-04, 10:09 AM

I know :)

Samba

10-01-04, 10:23 AM

Okay... it seemed like you thought it was the other way around... now that I've thought about it, it probably wouldn't take much to get my dogs to lick and chew landmines... LOL

Samba

10-01-04, 10:32 AM

As a matter of fact, the AKC website has this to say about AmStaffs;

"Over the past 50 years, careful breeding has produced today's American Staffordshire Terrier, which is affectionate, reliable, and an especially good dog for children.

The American Staffordshire Terrier is a happy, outgoing, stable, and confident dog that makes a wonderful family pet.

The American Staffordshire Terrier is adaptable to country or city living. The only thing that will break his spirit and his heart is lack of his owner's fond attention."

John Doe

10-01-04, 10:37 AM

By the way, all dogs over 50 pounds represent a threat for people life if not well trained so here is a solution to the problem, destroyed all dogs over that weight.

Common, be realistic, i agree that a dog who bite someone with no apparent reason should be destroyed and i'll be the first to put one of my dogs to sleep if someone is bit with no apparent reason but, destroy an whole breed because of the misuse from some stupid jerks who take a dog for the wrong purpose!!!!!!!!!

If i fallow that reasonnement, stop the sale of all red sport cars because that is proven that most car accidents involve one of those cars. Also, let's banned poultry because people died from salmonella after a chicken meal. And then, why not banned cats, knowing cats saliva contain a bacteria that can kill humans if it fallows a vein that leads to lymphatics gland, (thats true even if people don't know it, mostly because medias are not aware of that fact).

The truth is simply that at least 60% of people owning dogs are not competent enough to own a dog at the first place and because of those people, all the responsible owner should be punished? I don't think so. The only way to solve the problem is to educate people and to put them responsible for the actions of theire pets. I know a lot of accidents or incidents caused by reptiles in the past and i'm pretty sure that nobody here would like theire passion and hobby destroyed because of the ignorence from general public who sadly relate only to what they ear or see in the medias because, sadly, they have no better source of informations.

Samba

10-01-04, 10:42 AM

I agree, but let's try and keep posting POSITIVE Pit/Staffie stories here. I don't want the debate over whether they're good or bad to continue (even though I succumbed to defend dog's rights to defend their home and family).

Syco

10-01-04, 10:45 AM

You know, when you think about it, just the fact that these threads get so emotionally charged with people defending their beloved Pits, shows that a lot of Pits out there have loving homes and are being taken care of. These dogs are likely not a threat to anyone. I wish someone could come up with a way to keep these dogs out of the wrong hands without banning the breed, because as someone else said, if you ban Pits these people will just go on to another "tough" breed. As snake owners when we hear of a large Burm getting loose or injuring someone we don't blame the snake, we immediately put the blame on the owner.
We also get upset when they try to ban ownership of reptiles, why should we feel any different about dogs? Any pet capable of doing damage to a human should be owned by someone who is willing to take responsibility for that animal and make sure it is under control at all times.

Samba

10-01-04, 10:51 AM

That's right, and might I also mention, many of us here maintain some kind of permit, or license that enables us to keep large and potentially dangerous reptiles... why can't dog owners go through the same procedures? Want a Pit/Staffie or Rottie? Get a license. Geezzz... we need permits to fish, but are completely free to own whatever dog we choose... =/

capsicum

10-01-04, 10:51 AM

Samba, i have had several wonderful experiences with pits :D

One girl, a very orange brindle pitty, Si Ling, was adopted to be a companion for an elderly woman. Si had been terribly abused at one time, but at 1 year old, she was very willing to try to trust. This elderly woman is now blind, and Si helps her get around the house and neighborhood. She ins't trained as a seeing eye dog, but she is the most loving and caring dog this woman has ever experienced.

The second experience was with Chance, a deaf pitbull. He was doing so wonderful with his hand signals, that a family adopted him for their deaf son! They work wonderful together, and both have learned to cope with their disabilities.

I love pitts :D Hubby and I have even been discussing whether to buy a boxer or find a (show) breeder of am staffs :) I have been wanting an am staff for years, and I think we are fairly close to making our decision ;)

TK

Syco

10-01-04, 11:01 AM

Some more positive press for Pits. :D
http://www.dogwatch.net/ambassadors/mikey.html

Samba

10-01-04, 11:15 AM

Another great story, Syco! =) Keep them comin'!!

Syco

10-01-04, 11:31 AM

Get out the tissues, if you have a heart at all you are going to need them.

http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/articles/spike.html

And here is one with quite a different twist to it.

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/local/states/florida/counties/broward_county/7213472.htm?1c

Samba

10-01-04, 12:09 PM

I really did start to cry as I read that first story. How heart-breaking is that??

The second story I was unfortunately able to reach... unless I'm supposed to sign up for Herald.com?? Maybe you can copy the story and paste it here? I'd appreciate that.

Now I'm going to go cry some more... Poor Spike! =)

beth wallbank

10-01-04, 12:13 PM

I think it is rather sad that those who are so anti-pits have done no research on the breed, and rely solely on the media to give them their biased opinions. I own and raise pits, but also have MANY other species of animals and children. I too own a chihuahua, and worry more of what the little dog will and can do to people rather than the pits.
For those whom are against the bully breeds, a bit of research would do you all some good and clear up alot of the fact/fiction confusions for you. It is unfortunate that there ARE pits that have made the media for attacking, but these dogs stem from bad owners, not the fact that it is a bad dog.
A link I thought you might get some useful reading from.
http://www.hugabull.com/manmush.html

Samba

10-01-04, 12:17 PM

Weela, Ken-L Ration's Dog Hero of the Year (1993)
This story is from the Ultimate American Pit Bull Terrier by Jacqueline O'Neil. There's also an excellent story about Weela in Jillian Cline's new book The American Pit Bull Terrier speaks...Good Dog!. Weela was also featured in the October,1996 Outside magazine as an example of the kind of dog one would like to have in a life-threatening situation.
Gary Watkins, eleven years old, was absorbed in chasing lizards when Weela, the family Pit Bull, plowed into him with a body slam that sent him sprawling. Gary's mother, Lori, saw the whole incident and remembers being surprised at first, because Weela always played kindly with children. But her surprise quickly turned to horror when she saw a rattlesnake sink its fangs into Weela's face. Somehow Weela had sensed the snake's presence from across the yard and rushed to push Gary out of strinking range.

Luckily for thirty people, twenty-nine dogs, thirteen horses and a cat, Weela recovered from the snake's venom.
Luckily, because that's how many lives she saved a few years later. For her heroism, Weela was named Ken-L Ration's
Dog Hero of the Year in 1993. The press release read in part:

In January 1993, heavy rains caused a dam to break miles upstream on the Tijuana River, normally a narrow,
three-foot wide river. Weela's rescue efforts began at a ranch that belonged to a friend of her owners, Lori and Daniel
Watkins. Weela and the Watkinses worked for six hours battling heavy rains, strong currents and floating debris to
reach the ranch and rescue their friend's twelve dogs.

From that experience, the Watkinses recognized Weela's extraordinary ability to sense quicksand, dangerous drop-offs
and mud bogs. "She was constantly willing to put herself in dangerous situations," says Lori Watkins. "She alsays took
the lead except to circle back if someone needed help."

Periodically, over a month's time, sixty-five pound Weela crossed the flooded river to bring food to seventeen dogs and
puppies and one cat, all stranded on an island. Each trip she pulled thirty to fifty pounds of dog food that had been
loaded into a harnessed backpack. The animals were finally evacuated on Valentine's Day.

On another occasion, Weela led a rescue team to thirteen horses stranded on a large manure pile completely
surrounded by floodwaters. The rescue team successfully brought the horses to safe ground.

Finally, during one of Weela's trips back from delivering food to stranded animals, she came upon a group of thirty
people who were attempting to cross the floodwaters. Weela, by barking and running back and forth, refused to allow
them to cross at that point where the waters ran deep and fast. She then led the group to a shallower crossing
upstream, where they safely crossed to the other side.

Stong, gentle intelligent and brave, Weela,CGC,TT, is the ultimate American Pit Bull terrier, epitomizing the best that
the breed has to offer. But her story also highlights an important yet often misunderstood fact about the breed. The Pit
Bull is a dog that loves to please its owner and tries to become whatever kind of dog its owner desires. Weela has had
two owners.

The first owner dumped her in an alley to die when she was less than four weeks old. Her present owner, Lori Watkins,
found five starving Pit Bull puppies whimpering in an alley, took them home and raised them. later, the Watkins family
placed four of the puppies in loving homes and kept the little female they named Weela. They believed Weela was
special, and she proved them right. Most Pit Bull puppies grow up to become a reflection of both their owners'
personality and the care and training they receive. One can only imagine what a different dog Weela would have
become if her original owner had raised her, and she had done her best to please him.
source: http://www.lucydog.com/weela.html

Matt_K

10-01-04, 12:21 PM

Originally posted by JonD
Oh and Shadow talk to postal workers, most have had problems with ALL breeds of dogs, not just a few..

right up my ally.. I deliver mail in a rural area and see Dogs at every house if not ever other house.. I haven't been bitten or 'attacked' but we have had our car chased on about 4 different occasions now..

1st was a St. Bernard, this thing was HUGE.. I wasn't about to get near it..

2nd was a White Lab... Wouldn't leave us alone, chased us down the street barking and showing it's teeth... All we did was pull into the driveway to drop off a package that was too big for the mailbox..

4th was a Lab Mix of some sort... Nothing too bad, just barking, showing teeth and jumping up at the window...

5th was a Dalmation.. This thing chased us like you wouldn't believe.. Standing in the middle of the driveway showing teeth and barking non stop... As we drove away it chased us down the street and kept up for a bit.. Finally it turned back...

There are 2 Rottie's and 5 Pit Bulls that I know of my route.. I have come into direct contact with 3 of the Pit's and 1 of the Rottie's.. The Rottie just laid on the ground while I put the package at the door and didn't even move.. Just watched me...

All three of the Pits were there WITH owner's.. They barked as I approached the house but as soon as they saw I meant no harm, they were my best friends...

Not sure what any of this proves, but if one breed is going to be potentially banned, maybe they all should be?? I don't feel that new laws should be passed JUST for Pit Bulls and the likes, they should be passed for EVERYTHING...

-Matt

marisa

10-01-04, 12:22 PM

There are a MILLION things that present a danger to humans every single day that they might have nothing to do with. Drunk drivers run people over and cause fatal car incidents.....why is booze still legal? I might be walking down the street and a drunk might hit me, or a Pit might attack me.....why is the Pit removed from the situation but not booze?

We simply CANNOT remove everything on earth that might kill someone, or that even HAS killed someone! If we did all our freedoms, rights and choices would be removed from us for someone elses, or our own safety.

Yes when we were all kids we would jump fences.

But it was also well known where I live, you take the risk of the owner or a dog getting you the hell of their property. And in those days, people didn't sue each other. You took personal responsibility for your actions.

NO ONE today wants to take personal responsibility. Wether that means they don't take responsibility for their aggresive dog, or they don't for jumping into a yard that DOES NOT belong to them. It's ALWAYS someone else's fault, and let's sue and rid the world of the danger.

Like I said, let's get the self contained plastic bubbles for everyone to live in so no one will ever ever ever get hurt in any way again. I am sure within a month someone would be sueing someone else or trying to remove their bubble because another person bumped into them causing them to trip.

Marisa

Matt_K

10-01-04, 12:25 PM

AHHHHHHHHHHHH.. Get that EVIL dog out of the Dogshow!!! Ban him, ban him NOW.. :rolleyes:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v133/ShatteringGlass/DS_amstaff.jpg

Pic was posted on www.pitbullforum.com if the owner doesn't want it up, message me :D

Samba

10-01-04, 12:26 PM

Here's another story:

A Pit Bull named Blueberry is credited with saving her owner from two armed attackers. Authorities in Indiana, say the dog pounced on the intruders as they opened fire, Blueberrys legs and jaw were broken but she kept up the attack. The intruders fled and at last word, were still on the loose. Veterinarians at Purdue University were able to patch up Blueberry. They also say her unborn puppies are going to be ok.
Source: http://www.cyberpresence.net/petbull/fun/blueberry.html

marisa

10-01-04, 12:31 PM

Not pit bull attacks:

http://www.magicvalley.com/news/worldnation/index.asp?StoryID=10749

OHHH! In the one above a POLICE dog bit TWO people. I want police dogs banned. NOW.

http://www.channelcincinnati.com/news/3762243/detail.html

German Shepherd bit a boy. They need to be banned. Now.

http://www.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,4057,10937357%255E421,00.html

Smaller breed terriers kill a boy, they all need to be removed from society.

http://www.wkrn.com/Global/story.asp?S=2337419&nav=1ugFRDY8

Rottweiler attack. Again they also need banning apparently.

The above stories are a TINY drop in the bucket of dog attacks NOT involving pit bulls.

Those who want Pit Bulls banned better change positions and push for an all out dog ban period.

ALL DOGS BITE.

Marisa

Matt_K

10-01-04, 12:33 PM

Here's a news article I came across that everyone might find interesting..

EDITORIAL
Editorial | Send a letter to the editor
Despite recent attacks, you can't judge a dog by its breed

Vancouver Sun

September 20, 2004

It seems there's been a falling out between man and his best friend. Newspapers and newscasts are filled with stories of dog attacks, and now man has decided to get even.

In response to several recent attacks by pit bull terriers, many people, including Vancouver Councillor Tim Stevenson, have called for a ban on owning the breed.

Certainly, we sympathize with anyone who has been caught in the powerful jaws of a pit bull. But the call for a breed ban is wrongheaded, to say the least.

To begin with, there's no way to prove the breed of a dog, not even with DNA evidence. Breeds are essentially social constructions, much like human races.

Consequently, a dog owner could easily challenge a ban, and there's little a municipality could do to prove the dog is actually a pit bull. (In fact, the term "pit bull" doesn't even signify a breed, but rather applies to a number of breeds including the Staffordshire bull terrier and the American pit bull terrier.)

BEWARE OF POMERANIANS

Further, the impetus to ban pit bulls stems from the erroneous belief that all and only pit bulls are dangerous. Stevenson encapsulated that belief perfectly when he said, "You never hear of a cocker spaniel or a Labrador attacking someone."

Now we're not sure where Stevenson is getting his information, but he's terribly mistaken. While Canada, unfortunately, has no national database of dog attacks, a study by the Canadian Hospitals Injury Reporting and Prevention Program directly contradicts the city councillor's assertion.

The study looked at 278 dog attacks that required hospital admission, and found they were committed by 50 different types of purebred dogs and 33 types of crossbreeds.

German shepherds were responsible for by far the most attacks, and Rottweilers and Stevenson's harmless cocker spaniels tied for second. Golden retrievers came in fourth, and some studies in the United States have found Labrador retrievers responsible for more attacks than any other breed.

While pit bulls get all the negative press, Labradors, dachshunds and even a tiny Pomeranian -- a toy dog that weighs about five pounds -- have actually killed children.

And while pit bulls were originally bred to fight, one pit bull is a champion "herder" (which is what collies were bred for) and other pit bulls and Rottweilers have acted as therapy dogs.

The point, of course, is that you can't judge a dog by its breed. By focusing on the breed rather than the individual, breed bans result in labelling many non-vicious dogs as dangerous, while leaving many dangerous dogs free to roam the streets.

Or alternatively, you ban every breed that's ever attacked someone. Italy is doing just that and now has 40 breeds on its banned list (out of about 160 recognized breeds). Most recently, Welsh corgis were banned, which means the Queen won't be visiting Rome anytime soon.

For all of these reasons, many organizations, including the Canadian Kennel Club, the American Kennel Club, the Canadian Veterinary Medical Association, the Canada Safety Council and the U.S. Centers for Disease Control all oppose breed bans.

While bans make little sense, dangerous dog legislation is important, but must be based on the individual dog. Dogs that have attacked people or animals should be satisfactorily rehabilitated or euthanized, and other dogs deemed dangerous, such as guard dogs trained to attack, should be confined.

Owners of dangerous dogs must be held responsible for their dogs' behaviour, including the laying of criminal charges when appropriate. All too often, dogs that attack were either mistreated by their owners or were purchased purely because the owners believed that owning powerful and menacing animals improved the owners' tough-guy images. If there's to be a ban, it should prevent such people from owning any dog.

Despite the importance of controlling dangerous dogs, the CHIRPP study found that 71.6 per cent of dog attacks involved dogs that had not previously exhibited aggressive behaviour. In fact, the victim of more than one-quarter of all attacks was the dog's owner or the owner's children.

As such, it's crucially important that the public be educated about how to handle dogs. People need to know that tethered dogs are much more likely to attack (because, when threatened, a chained dog can't run away). Dogs that aren't spayed or neutered are also much more likely to attack, so dog owners need to be encouraged to have their pets fixed.

EDUCATE DOGS AND PEOPLE

Dog owners should also socialize their pets, and all dogs should be licensed. Mandatory obedience training is also a good idea, particularly for breeds like Rottweilers and pit bulls, who, thanks to their sheer strength and the enormous power of their jaws, can inflict significant damage if they attack.

The CHIRPP study also found that young children are much more likely to be attacked, primarily because they act in ways dogs perceive as threatening. Consequently, the education of children is particularly important, and parents need to educate their children not to approach strange dogs and to refrain from teasing any dog.

The best bet for reducing dog attacks is, therefore, not the indiscriminate banning of an allegedly troublesome breed, but the education of both dog owners and those who come into contact with dogs on how to handle animals responsibly. In so doing, we can ensure that our best friends remain just that.
© The Vancouver Sun 2004

marisa

10-01-04, 12:34 PM

LMAO!

http://www.canoe.ca/NewsStand/CalgarySun/News/2004/09/05/616464.html

This lady actually SAYS "Any animal with the instinct to kill should not be allowed to live"

Can you BELIEVE people with this logic are actually walking around?!?!?!?! LMAO The ban on snakes, fish, certain birds, cats and dogs should start now people!

Marisa

Samba

10-01-04, 12:45 PM

LOL, well I guess she's got to go, because humans have that instinct, and lots of them exercise that everyday... squashing bugs, setting rat traps, just a few examples. That is a pretty funny thing for her to say.

Thank you guys for posting these articles. I hope that those who oppose the Pits and Staffies can at look at the breed differently now.

Once more, more positive pit stories are welcome! =)

JonD

10-01-04, 12:45 PM

Excellent article Matt!!

Marisa, lol it amazes me how stupid some people are.

Everything kills something to survive...MMWWWAAAAHAHAHAHAHA!

Samba

10-01-04, 12:50 PM

Darn Vegetarians and their plant-killing ways... when will this all end?!?!?! Oh, the MADNESS!!! LOL

marisa

10-01-04, 12:51 PM

Another thing I would like the fans of a Pit ban to think about....

When you start allowing ful breed or species bans you are bringing your hobby into direct danger. Snakes, like pits, are often the victims of bad information and because of this they are not allowed in many places.

Before calling to ban another persons passion and love, better think about what it will do to your own as well.

Marisa

Samba

10-01-04, 12:56 PM

Good point, Marisa. I'll leave it up to you to make the intelligent, thought-provoking posts, because I hadn't even considered that. I had compared dogs and reptiles previously, but in a different context. It's a eye-opener I hope for all those calling for bans. Bans don't work, and I will always believe there are better solutions out there... =)

HeatherRose

10-01-04, 01:03 PM

That's very true. A few years ago a woman named Diane Whipple was attacked and mauled outside of her apartment door by two Presa Canarios. These dogs are similar to Pits and Staffies in body shape, type and build but are much larger. (One of the dogs was actually heavier than Miss Whipple)

Unfortunately Miss Whipple succumbed to her injuries and the owners of the Presa Canarios went on trial, and I believe, convicted of manslaughter (or First degree murder). The dogs were put down, and it was even said that the male dog, (I forget his name), was subjected to numerous tranquilizers, and still walked from the scene of the attack to the Animal Control Vehicle, were I believe he was euthanized. (I don't remember all the fine details of this story).

Amazingly enough, I have heard nothing on the Presa Canarios, which are a relatively rare breed. If Pits, Rotties, Mastiffs, etc. are banned, people looking for big, mean dogs will turn to Presas. I can practially guarantee it. Anyways, I would like to see more positive stories about Pits and Staffies specifically.

Thanks to all of you who have followed my example by showing the good nature of Pits. =)

This is one of the most infamous cases of irresponsible dog ownership in the United States and was a huge wake-up call to irresponsible dog owners. They originally charged the woman who owned the dogs with second degree MURDER, but this was thrown out because she couldn't really know 'when' the dogs would attack. I believe the final charge was involuntary manslaughter and 4 years in prison.

For a complete/interesting look at this story with fun pictures click here:
http://www.rotten.com/library/bio/crime/criminals/noel-knoeller/

I'm all for the complete banning/euthanizing of irresponsible pet owners by the way...

Heather Rose

Samba

10-01-04, 01:13 PM

Originally posted by HeatherRose
I'm all for the complete banning/euthanizing of irresponsible pet owners by the way...

LOL

I wasn't able to access the link here... it's a "forbidden" site apparently... is it possible you can post directly?? Thanks!

Matt_K

10-01-04, 01:16 PM

The article is HUGE... Are you at work?? My guess is just about everyone's place of employment has Rotten.com blocked.. LOL..

Samba

10-01-04, 01:17 PM

Yes, I'm always at work when I'm here.. no phone at home... LOL =)

HeatherRose

10-01-04, 01:23 PM

Yeah, Rotten is blocked for lots of people at school/work...too bad, the library's full of useful information. I'll PM it to you Samba, no pictures though :p

Samba

10-01-04, 01:33 PM

Thanks, Heather... I'll be looking forward to it, and I really appreciate it! =)

HeatherRose

10-01-04, 01:40 PM

*whispers* ...'your Pm box is full'... :P

Samba

10-01-04, 01:55 PM

LOL, Okay lemme clear some stuff... hehe I wish we have some kind of warning to let us know... thanks!

P.S. Ok, hope I freed up enough space... sorry about that... Geez there's messages in there from like, two years ago! LOL

Thanks for the favor, Heather, I appreciate it!!!

JonD

10-01-04, 02:05 PM

Wow Heather, thats some crazy story.....:D

Samba

10-01-04, 02:25 PM

Why is Rotten.Com banned? I've never been to that site... is it just graphic or what??

JonD, you shoulda seen the news footage inside the corridor where Miss Whipple was attacked... many shots were blurred for 'viewer' protection, but they said some of the emergency staff, including EMT's and Law Enforcement officals needed to undergo counseling for 'post-traumatic stress' related disorders.

Even though this is a horrible story, it reminds those who love and hate dogs, the things they are capable of. The owners were held completely responsible for their dog's actions, and I just think that's awesome! I like gory stories (I know I'm sic) but this one is truely a sad, sad, story. This woman did not deserve to die... =(

marisa

10-01-04, 02:31 PM

Oh Samba....you are in for a world of shock when you finally do see rotten.com :D

Marisa

Samba

10-01-04, 02:36 PM

I LOVE to be SHOCKED!!! LOL I'm almost craving it!!!

I got hooked on that Darwin Awards Site awhile back, but haven't had anything to read since I've read every story on that site! LOL

Please tell me what it's like! LOL =)

Matt_K

10-01-04, 02:39 PM

If you like gore and shock.. You should get a phone line JUST for that site.. LOL

HeatherRose

10-01-04, 03:04 PM

:p I go there for the ARTICLES.

Samba

10-01-04, 03:22 PM

LOL Matt

Heather - Whoa. Ok, I knew all of the details in the story, except for the possible sexual abuse of the dogs. Now THAT'S crazy!!!

Thanks for sending me that story, I appreciate it!

critical bill

10-01-04, 03:56 PM

People......its whats for dinner. Woof woof

reptiguy420

10-01-04, 04:25 PM

Bill..lloll

Tim and Julie B

10-01-04, 06:08 PM

Tim and I own 1 Stafforshire Terrier and 1 American Stafforshire Terrier (the term "pit bull" no longer applies because they are no longer used in "pit" fights) and they are the sweetest dogs ever. ANY dog can be trained to be aggressive, it is not a trait that can be gained through genetics. I can see how people are afraid of large breeds, I myself was attacked by a HUGE German Shepherd when I was a kid, and was scared of dogs for a long time there after. I have also been attacked by a mini Eskimo, 3 toy poodles and a black lab. The people who owned the Sheperd had a case file a mile wide on their dogs attacking people, once even ripping a 5 year old to pieces. They were still allowed to keep dogs. Sad, but true.

Now, wouldn't it be better, since we live in a "free" country, to allow anyone the right to own the dog of their choice? Of course, but perhaps there should be rules put in place (regarding dogs). Here's what I mean:

1. Any person who owns an animal (dogs) capable of causing serious harm (all canines) should be made to pay $xx per annum to license said animal.

2. If said animal (dog) should be found by animal control the amount per annum will double from $xx to $xx.

3. If said animal is found responsible for a malicious act the owner will be fined $xx and the animal will be put to rest.

4. The owner of said animal may NOT own another dog for a minimum of 2 years (?)

5. No person shall breed dogs for profit unless the Dame and Sire are legally registered and the owner has a viable permit.

6. Dogs CANNOT be "given" away unless as a gift.
(this prevents thousands being given away in papers)

I know that this is a "juvenile" example, I don't make laws so it's just my example. I don't think that it would be good to prevent people from choosing what dog they would like to own. Another way to help prevent these problems is to force anyone getting a dog to spay or neuter, which would be easy if it were a law. (though I know that some people just have to break laws:D) I would also like to see everyone reading this thread to look up the statistics of dog attacks in Canada and the US. I think you'll find "pitties" nowhere near the top of the list. Well thanks everyone for reading my little bit, looking forward to any responses:D

Julie

Tim and Julie B

10-01-04, 06:16 PM

Please read the information on this site. It is something everyone should take a look at whether you have dogs or not:D

www.goodpooch.com

Julie

zero&stich

10-02-04, 04:51 PM

I feel very bad for this breed. It's such a shame they have such a bad rep. True these animals are very strong but they are known for incrediable intelligence and suberb loyality. These are just one of my favorate breeds.

I feel though that their intellgence and ability to learn so quickly works against them. I feel this is the main reason why these animals were/are used to protect homes. They learn commands quick so it most definatly is not fair to the breed or anyone to condem these animals for the acts of sheer stupidity such as uneducated people and the illresponsability of the owners.

A person I knew had a 3 yr old Bull before I moved away. But the animal, my god, I never seen a more loving animal. Her daughter at the time was just 4 yrs old. I swear, it was like the dog saw the child as her puppy. One day, she was putting her daughter in the bed and the Bull was in the same room at the time as the mother. When she layed it in the bed and walked away, leaving me in the room with the dog. I was petting the dog(cant remember the name now of the animal), the dog bounded up a stool of some sort and hopped onto the temporary bed before I could stop her, lol, so she wouldnt wake the baby. The dog flopped down and curled its body around the baby and began to lick the hair causing a cow lick and continued to lick the neck and face. It looked like the dog was giving the baby a bath. :)

It was quite cute, but yep, the child woke up, lol.