Pine Photos

[zero&stich]

After doing some more research I think I may have a Northern. But a "red-phase". The pics are very fuzzy and so large I have to post links, lol. I'm sry bout that.

But let me know what you think.

Pine photo (http://www.geocities.com/plookl/Eyes_to_Watch.html?1096419558343)

[Ontario_herper]

Picture is pretty bad but I don't see much red?

[Vanan]

Don't see much of anything really.

[5alive]

It looks like channel 8 back home on my dads farmervision tv

[Tim_Cranwill]

You could have told me they were picturs of bananas and I would have to take your word for it! lol j/k :D :p

Try again but from further away. :)

[zero&stich]

Ouch my photography skills are bein poked fun of. LOL~ :)

Well heres a better one i think.Slightly better pic (http://www.geocities.com/plookl/Eyes_to_Watch.html?1096464929780)

what does it look like to you guys? Heh, its a fatty also.

[Vanan]

Lil better. Looks like a snake now. lol :p Like the tail on it. Hopefully it doesn't develop any of that ugly pinks or reds. ;) :D :p

[zero&stich]

Heh so does it look like a Louie or a Northern?

[Vanan]

Northern at first glace but I haven't seen much ruthveni babies so I can't tell the difference between the two.

[Ontario_herper]

Looks like a northern to me.... but again the picture isn't that clear. Sometimes the red phase don't develop much red until they're a bit older. It's the same species regardless....

[Vanan]

It's the same species regardless....

How is P. ruthveni and P. melanoleucus considered the same species?! Unless of course that's not what you meant.

[jjaj02]

Just a quick question Vanan. I thought that a southern pine, a northern pine and a louisiana pine were all the same species of snake but different sub-species. Please correct me if I am way off track and explain it to me too. Thanks.

[Vanan]

Genus species subspecies

Pituophis melanoleucus melanoleucus Northern Pine

Pituophis m. mugitus Southern Pine

Pituophis m. lodingi Black Pine

Pituophis ruthveni Louisiana Pine

Google it. :D

Northerns, southerns and the blacks are all different subspecies of the same species.

[jjaj02]

Ok, thats what I said. Im confused. Am I wrong or right????? So Pine is the species and northern, southern, black, lousiana is the sub-species right?

[Vanan]

The louisiana pine is it's own species, not a ssp. of the rest.

[jjaj02]

I see, I see. Otay, now im not confused ne more.....just a little embarrased hehe. Got it now. Thanks a lot for explaining.

[Vanan]

No worries. :)

[Ontario_herper]

Vanan - I was saying that northerns and "reds" were the same species.

[Vanan]

Originally posted by Ontario_herper
Vanan - I was saying that northerns and "reds" were the same species.

Cool. :)

[zero&stich]

Hehe, ya I know guys the pic is horriable but it looks like a Northern?

Btw, its a baby now. lol. Gettin alot calmer, but has the worst aim I ever seen! Guess that's to my adavantage.

Thanks for all the help, and sry again. I'm usin a webcam to take the pics so I guess there not as good as the real deal.

[Ontario_herper]

Yea pines seem to put so much effort into striking a long distance that they forget to aim.

[SCReptiles]

I have not seen a pine with the pattern that well defined, are you certain its not a bull?

[zero&stich]

Thats interesting. It does kind of look like a bull. I looked at two pictures of a normal bull and a nothern pine. I'll post the pics and see what everyone thinks.

Bull
Pic (http://www.**************/pituophis/images/normal_bull_jwc.jpg)

Northern
Pine pic (http://www.**************/pituophis/images/northern_pine_greg.jpg)

(insert kingsnake .com in front of the *****)

But I can ask the breeder to. :)
PS I stink at comps so sry for the links.

[Vanan]

Btw, its a baby now. lol. Gettin alot calmer, but has the worst aim I ever seen! Guess that's to my adavantage.

Snakes don't always strike you to bite you. Alot of it is just bluff. Happens with almost any commonly kept species. Even baby corns don't always strike to bite. More than often they'll go over your finger. Now if you meant that it was a pathetic feeding strike then I would say your snake has bad aim. I've only seen the missed feeding strike happening with overzealous calkings. They miss the front end of the rodents totally, have to back up and then start chewing from the backside.

[Vanan]

Also, it's definitely not a bull. There's no distinctive banding in the tail only blotching which looks like a typical northern to me.

[rwg]

"google it"

Google is no help in taxonomy...it changes so often it''ll make your head spin.

according to google, bullsnake:
P. catinifer
P. catenifer sayi
P. melanoleucas
p. melanoleucas sayi

Everytime I use google to determine taxonomy for reptiles, I end up asking here for clarification, and I generally get told to consult the EMBL reptile database (http://www.embl-heidelberg.de/~uetz/LivingReptiles.html).

P. catenifer sayi

rg

[zero&stich]

Snakes don't always strike you to bite you. Alot of it is just bluff. Happens with almost any commonly kept species. Even baby corns don't always strike to bite. More than often they'll go over your finger. Now if you meant that it was a pathetic feeding strike then I would say your snake has bad aim. I've only seen the missed feeding strike happening with overzealous calkings. They miss the front end of the rodents totally, have to back up and then start chewing from the backside.

Hehe, Vanan I guess I didnt explain well enough. I was refering to the ol' feeding strike. The puff and huff is so cute. lol. Thx Vanan.

Hehehe I got a Northern. Cool.

[Vanan]

rwg, EMBL is a good place to check on taxonomical changes. Actually I do have to admit that you do get some sites which are ancient. So googling isn't 100%. My bad.

zero&stitch, apologies for misunderstanding your previous post. Post more pics of your northern as he grows. Would love to see how his tail turns out. Looks like he may have lots of light areas on it. :)

[bistrobob85]

At the first look, i also thought it was a bull... Perhaps i'll have to do some more research on pines, hehe...

phil.

[zero&stich]

...The rate its growing in the 2 wks under my care, it'll be 3-3 1/2 , maybe 4 ft pending in no time. It already shed to, lol.
Thx again for all the help and patience Vanan.

bistrobob85, It's very close to a bull, and it didnt even cross my mind til someone pointed it out. If you look at the took pics there very similar but the pattern on the saddles are different. Kinda cool when I think bout it, how similar they are in a first glace.

[Katt]

I'm with Vanan. Northern!

<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v147/Kattia/Pits/npinebod3.jpg">

[zero&stich]

ooo thats a sexy snake, sweet! cant wait til mine looks like that.

[Katt]

Oh, that one is just a baby!!

[zero&stich]

ooo looks fairly long up close :) but its very pretty. looks like some lavander in there to.