Puppy Intros

[Samba]

Hello All!

Well I have some questions for you guys regarding introductions between two dogs.

I've had S80 (Sadie) now for a few months and she is wonderful. Loves to play, extremely hyper and a little sad when I leave for work in the mornings; (literally she'll grab my ankle with her paw as if to say, "No! Don't Go!") I love her to death, she's the best thing to happen to me in a long time.

Now, this last weekend I was given an 11 week old Staffordshire Terrier (Full-blooded) who is gorgeous. I let her acclimate for 24 hours before the first introduction to S80. She was a little scared, but this is not an excitable pup. She doesn't bark, or run around or anything... she's very serious...

Anyways, the introduction: Besides myself, there were my sister and her boyfriend present to observe and help with handling. To help S80 feel better I scratched her, and talked to her as my sister and her boyfriend carried the pup over... then they stopped at a distance of about 10 feet from S80 and I.

With S80's scent still fresh on my hands I walked over to the pup and petted and scratched her. I then returned to S80, who, bless her heart, wasn't even jealous. I let S80 sniff around, and she was happy to see the pup. She wanted to play, but the puppy showed her teeth and was a little defensive, which I totally and completely understand.

I do have to option of returning this dog to it's owner if things don't work out, but I'm planning a second introduction today. I need some ideas to help make this go smoothly, and even though S80 is very into this, I think her jumping around and being excited is scaring the pup, who then gets defensive.

Well, if you guys have any ideas let me know please... It would be nice if these two got along! Thanks in advance! =)

[Samba]

Anyone? A friend of mine told me to just let the dogs 'go at it' so they can establish the pecking order... I guess I'll call a few vets around here and see what they think... I would think there's a chance of injury if I let these guys 'go at it'....

[Linds]

I would definitely not let them go at it. Dogs can and will get injured if they do not get along. I have to keep my house partioned off with a baby gate, as one of my longhaired Jack Russels (messed up rescue) is very possessive and defensive (was abused and also had to fend for himself as a puppy amongst a pack of 12 mostly largebreed dogs). Is any animal so much as crosses what he wants for himself, or tries slaps him with a paw trying to play he will freak right out. There is establishing a pecking order and then there is fighting. Some dogs will just not work it out regardless.

[ydnic]

Just like your friend said - let them go at it. I have two rotweilers. The male is pretty nice and the female is good with most males but not females. It depends on which dog is feeling 'alpha' at the time. I met my friend who lives across the street through our dogs. They always barked at each other so one day we took em to the park to play. We both knew they would have to have it out first because they both thought they were better - and so we let them fight (but were ready to kick em apart if it got too crazy) it lasted a few minutes and then they were playing fetch together and are best friends now.

Introductions like that suck but it has to be done if you want to keep both.

[Samba]

Well, thanks, those are two very different opinions. Please keep in mind we are dealing with a 1 1/2 yr. old Shep/AmStaff mix(S80), and an 11 week old Purebred AmStaff puppy (Cedar). Cedar is actually the defensive one, and I know she's been stressed. One day she's with her family, the next she's in another home, and the day after that she meets S80, who is ready to play and is bouncing around and barking.

They did do some nose-to-nose introductions but the puppy is a bit snappy at S80, and my only real fear is that S80 will turn on her for not being 'polite'.

I think the puppy acts a bit snobish... she's very sweet and open to being around people, but she's not very nice to S80. I think with consistant Positive reinforcement I can get these two used to each other... but I really wanted dogs they will enjoy each other's company... (Part of the reason I got the puppy was so S80 would have someone to play with while I'm at work during the day). Is there any chance this will work out?? We'll see what happens... any advice is still appreciated... Thanks again.. =)

[lakeridgekennel]

Just let them go at it. DON"T make your older dog feel like the younger dog is taking over make the older one's space his that means different dishes maybe different blankets some toys but not all toys and put the younger dog outside or something and give the older dog your undivided time for a little while and then over time he and the new one will get along or at leats live together.

[Samba]

Thanks, Lake, I have already taken numerous steps so that S80 (the older dog) won't feel left out, unwanted, etc. I actually spend a lot of time with her, Car-rides (to visit 'daddy' at work), pet stores, walking in the park, etc. and she is very well-adjusted. She doesn't appear to be jealous at all, but perhaps things will change once she sees that the puppy will be staying... who knows, but I do reassure her, and give her lots of attention.

She accepts the puppy and wants to play with her and get to know her, but the puppy is defensive. I think the puppy needs to learn some manners and be socialized. (The only other dogs she's been around are her parents, brothers and sisters). Maybe she's confused and doesn't know how to react to a dog that isn't a family member.

[capsicum]

Whenever I have had to introduce a new dog into the family, we walked them both (one person with one, another with the other), just being very casual with them.

Cedar is probably just very nervous about being around a larger more excited dog. Try low-energy activites with both (having other people with you too), and show Cedar that things aren't so bad.

Congrats on your new pup!! Love to see pics whenever you get some :D

Take care and enjoy your pups!

TK

[Samba]

Thanks, I do have just one pic and she and I on the day I got her... I'd have more but my camara broke a long time ago... This photo was taken with my brother's picture phone...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v294/sambagurl/DoriCedar.jpg

Maybe I'll try taking them both to the park after work... S80 loves it, and I know the pup is fond of playing in the grass... my sis and her BF will be there, too!

[capsicum]

Aww...what a sweetie :D She looks great!

TK

[jjaj02]

Being a breeder (of dogs) I can honestly say, yes just let them go at it. Watch that they don't hurt each other and when they growl at each other just tell them no. Growling from dogs is never good. If you can't teach them this at a young age, then they will never learn. They will decide for themselves who's who in your house. Cedar isn't being territorial or agressive.....or shouldn't be at his young age. He is probably just scared of S80. If Sadie isn't jealous of Cedar and she has a good temperment and can put up with a puppy then chances are you won't have to worry about her going after Cedar. If Cedar snaps or growls at her, S80 will probably learn to just walk away from him. But make sure that you teach Cedar that growling and/or biting is not acceptable in your house. We had an 8 yr old pomeranian from the time she was a pup and then got an 11 yr old pomeranian that was a rescue. They never liked each other from day one. They got into a few minor fights over food etc. but they eventually lived in the same house without incident. They just learned to avoid each other. With Cedar being a puppy he'll learn very quickly to like S80. Like I said he is probably just more scared having a new home and a new family and a new BIG sister. And he probably hasn't been properly sociallized with other dogs. Just be happy that its the puppy not liking the adult and not the other way around. Don't keep them seperated all the time because then when you are playing with one of them and the other one is locked away they will start getting jealous. Make sure you spend equal amounts of time with each and try doing activities with both of them at the same time to make them feel equal. Even if it is sitting on your living room floor with a dog on either side of you petting them. It's as simple as that. Feed them both at the same time, let them out at the same time, give them the same treats at the same time, walk them at the same time, etc. Do to one what you are doing to the other so one doesn't feel left out. Have fun with your new puppy and good luck. Don't worry Cedar is still young and with proper training and socialization he will outgrow it. Keep us updated on how he is doing.

[treegirl]

Hey Samba! I would have to say too that you might think about just letting them do their thing. The puppy might snarl and even nip but your other pup will let Cedar know where his/her place is.

My 2 1/2 year old aussie had a problem with a puppy who didn't want to be messed with and tried to get Maiven to fight--Maiven tangled with her but just long enough to establish rank. They were playing with each other soon after that.

good luck! :)

[Samba]

Thanks, that was particularly reassuring to me. Honestly I think if didn't hold back either dog S80 would probably approach Cedar, and Cedar would probably start growling or something. I don't think they'll get into a full-on fight, but Cedar definately needs to learn that getting along with other animals is very important. She wants to be by herself, and while I understand this is all very scary for her she needs to know other animals aren't bad. S80 is a fine dog, and I know she's dying to play with Cedar... S80 on the other hand, doesn't seem intuitive enough to realize that Cedar is scared of her. Well, I'll let you guys know what happens... if anyone has more to add or advice to give, please do so within the next couple of hours... I will be leaving work soon....

Thanks again, to all of you... =)

P.S. Just read your post, Dawnell, thanks! It's weird, A majority of people I've talked to have said just to let them get it out in the open. I hope everything works out... I'd really, REALLY hate to give this puppy back!!!

[treegirl]

It'll be great when Cedar finally realizes what a potential friend she has with S80! I had a shepherd when I was a kid who loved puppies so much that whenever we got a new pup 'Eva' would sort of adopt them as her own and they all grew to be best buddies.

[Samba]

Awww, how sweet! S80 and Cedar are the first dogs I've had since the one I grew up with, Whitney, died about 2 years ago. Losing her was something that was extremely difficult, but I decided that I was going to get more dogs because just having a dog around makes life so much more fun!!!! =) I really think S80 needs someone to play with while I'm at work all day... I feel bad that she's at home alone all the time...

[treegirl]

Just remember that dogs are pack animals and like other dogs around ---of thier 'own' pack, of course. I think most of the dogs who don't get along are dogs who are introduced at a much older age.

[JonD]

Samba, put them together and let em do thier thing. As stated before, dogs figure out their social order by themselves. Supervise it of course but even if they fight a bit, they'll soon work it out!!! (most times that is...);)

[Samba]

Thanks, Jon.... well, I'm about to leave work so I'll take into considerations all your thoughts and ideas. I'll be sure to post the results tomorrow morning (when I get to work). If you have any last minute advice shoot before I go.

Thanks to all of you who replied, I've really enjoyed reading your thoughts...

Thanks again! =)

P.S. Jon - your avatar rocks! It's morbid, yet cool... I... can't...stop...watching...it... hehe =)

[JonD]

Originally posted by Samba

P.S. Jon - your avatar rocks! It's morbid, yet cool... I... can't...stop...watching...it... hehe =)

LoL yeah it amuses me for some strange reason;)

[Samba]

Well, unfortunately I have no update for the puppies... my sis was unable to make it yesturday with Cedar. (She's holding on to her until we can determine if the dogs will get along... We are going to try today... so I will post an update soon... Thanks again! =)

[LISA127]

Just keep in mind that two female dogs fighting is a lot more serious than two male dogs fighting. Males may fight more often, but a fight between two females is much more serious and more likely to result in injuries. Though with the pup being so young that is not going to be a problem right now.
I disagree with the person who said to teach your dog not to growl. Growling is a way of communicating for a dog. It is a way of saying that something is bothering him/her, telling another animal to back off, etc. It's a warning. Much better than a dog that does not give a warning and just bites or attacks. Dogs can not talk with words, why take away their communication? Now if you have a good relationship with your dog and your are the leader, then you're dog should not be growling at YOU. But why on earth would you want to teach your dog to never growl??

[JonD]

Lisa, I agree with letting your dog growl, but you don't mention anything about friendly growling at play.. Most dogs do it and it isn't meant to be threatening at all. Mostly just them being vocal..;)

[Cruciform]

If S80 has a doggie beg, and you have a kennel cage available for the puppy, let the puppy sleep with S80s dog bed for a couple of nights to acclimate to the smell. Then leave her (in the cage) for a day around S80, but give her a place to hide so she doesn't stress out totally, having no place to retreat if she feels threatened.

She'll probably be fine in a day or two, and then able to run free :)

This has worked with cats anyway, might go differently with dogs :)

[Samba]

Thanks guys, I now have an update...

Yesturday, my sister brought the puppy to where I work... I thought that Cedar would be intimidated, but she quickly opened up to all the attention from my co-workers. We then left and visited a PetStore that is located across the street... since it was the middle of the afternoon I figured there would not be as many people and animals there.

Upon entering the building (Cedar had to be carried), there was a GIANT white shepard there to greet the customers. I was surprised at the difference in reaction by Cedar. Instead of growling and being defensive as she was with S80, she was submissive, then playful after all the sniffing had been done. In fact, I had a hard time getting her away from that big, friendly, dog. Since we were there to find a cage muzzle for S80 (in case she decided to bite the pup), we walked around for a bit and she met other dogs and people, including another pup. Long story short, I didn't buy the muzzle, and my sister and I left to go home, where S80 was waiting.

I instructed my sister to stay with Cedar on the sidewalk in front of the house while I leashed S80. S80 and I walked over, and, (as I suspected), she took a few wiffs of the pup and was ready to go on a walk. We walked a bit with nothing remarkable to mention.

BUT, when we came back home, both the dogs were doing so well, that I decided to give them treats. I had to planned to give each a treat at the same time. I broke a bone in half and offered to each dog simultaneously. Cedar's half fell out of my hands while she was trying to grab it from me, and S80 reached her paw out to grab it... then Cedar immeadiately began snarling at her. I must say it was quite impressive to see and hear the pup doing this. S80 sat quietly, focused on the pup... I think she was a bit surprised, too! After it was over, the pup continued to snarl and growl at S80 whenever she came near. She really held a grudge, so I guess Cedar percieved being locked inside my apartment (while I picked up Trevor from work) as punishment. When we came back home and opened the door she flew out of the apartment, wiggling and wagging; happy to see everyone, even to S80.

Because it's cold outside we elected to keep the pup indoors to sleep with us. We thought the night was uneventful but then we discovered a pile of crap on the kitchen floor... ahh the joys of housebreaking!

Trevor took Cedar to work this morning to further her socialization, and he called not too long ago just to tell me she's doing well.

Well, that was a long and boring story, huh?

The only concerns I have now is that S80 is sure to discipline the pup when she gets out of hand. S80 tends to 'rush' the pup with her mouth open, but doesn't actually bite... she just places her mouth on the pup's body, I guess as a warning or something. An example; S80 knows that when she's inside she is not allowed on the couch. Cedar started to climb on the couch at one point, and S80 rushed over placed her open mouth over the pup's withers and emitted a sort of low growl. The pup got down and they were friends again.

I hope to enroll both dogs in a training program where they can learn and play together.

Well, thanks for reading my book! LOL =)

[capsicum]

Sounds great Samba :D Sounds to me that S80 is mothering the pup and putting her into her place ;) I had a tiny chi x female do that to a doberman adult :p

Congrats again, and enjoy!

TK

[snakelet]

FWIW, I've been told by numerous people (including the breeder I got my dog from) that if you want two dogs to meet, don't do it while they are leashed. Apparently being leashed causes the dogs to be much more defensive because they can't get into the regular submissive or dominant postures (stuff we usually can't even notice). Just my 0.02.

[ydnic]

Snaklet that is totally true - dogs have an auto pecking order and to establish that they need to not be restrained
its sounds like you are doing a good job samba - and don`t worry if they do argue because it is usually more sounds than anything

[LISA127]

Snakelet, you are exactly right. :) My dog is defensive with other dogs while on leash, but loves them off leash. That's very common.

[Samba]

Thank you, well, on the sidewalk they were both leashed, but not held back in any way, there was plenty of slack for them to do what they needed. If my dogs were gonna have it out I just needed to be able to pull them back without sending my hands into a fight, know what I mean? I knew S80 would be interested in being out of the yard, and going for her walk. Besides, she'll totally take off if not leashed, and I'm still trying to figure out how to break her of that. She comes to me when called, but only if leashed, or inside the apartment.

Yesturday, Cedar seems to be taking a much more submissive posture when greeting S80, but after awhile becomes a little more assertive. I will continue to let S80 'correct' her while under supervision. (They are not allowed to spend time together alone yet). I took some great photos of S80 and Cedar last night in part of our yard, I hope to post them soon... (Since they were taken with a regular 35mm I have to have the photos scanned and saved on a disk before I can post them. I understand Wal-Mart does this reasonably cheap??) We'll see! =)

[JonD]

Glad to hear it's working out for ya!!!;)