Who did it?? :)

[Dragons & Balls]

I saw a story on Global yesterday. Seems as though there are loose Rats in Calgary in one certain neighbourhood. So my question is

Who let the Rats out?

lol

[Ron]

What neighborhood were they in?

[gonesnakee]

I'm sure no one will be stepping up to that right away as they are illegal to have here live. More bad press for the herping community. As Ron has already asked, name a neighbourhood & chances are the "reptile community" will know which herper is responsible & can deal with them privately. Mark

[Greg West]

Originally posted by Chris Bilou on the TARAS Mailing list

By now many of you may have heard of the 37 live rats caught and destroyed in an Acadia alley. Bylaw services and the province is suspecting they they belonged to a snake-oner that was breeding them as food....no suspects yet, but prepare for fallout (you can imagine the potential bad press nd backlash on this one). I will be contacting bylaw services and the newspapers on behalf of the TARAS legal office, assuring them that we do not in any way condone the keeping or breeding of live rats, are strongly against destructive, invasive species, and will assist them in any way possible.

G. A. Christian Bilou
TARAS legal co-ordinator

[Greg West]

Chris should be on QR77 between 5-5:30 to talk about this. Seems to be bringing a lot of media attention where we don't need it. I hope that it is not reptile related, but all the news media have already blamed it one that.

Just what we needed before the show.

Greg

[gonesnakee]

Here's a link to some stories I just recv. from friends, Mark

http://news.google.ca/news?hl=en&ned=ca&q=calgary+rats&ie=UTF-8&scoring=d

[Invictus]

I commend Christian Bilou for his RAPID response to this. First the rats - next a ban on anything that eats them. I have never been more worried about the future of boids in this province.

[gonesnakee]

Who do we know that lives in Acadia is the question??? I'm hating this already too we just had the phone book out checking the addresses of the people quoted in the articles. I have a friend (non herper) that lives in Acadia who was quite concerned & curious as to who I might know that may live in the neighbourhood & the exact area of Acadia in question. Mark
P.S. I live in the Southwood 'hood' & no rats here!

[Toirtis]

Originally posted by gonesnakee
Who do we know that lives in Acadia is the question???

Nobody, as far as we can tell. I have a number of reasons to believe that the rats, whether escaped or released, belonged to someone breeding them as pets for the underground market (a hell of a lot more profitable at $20-$30/rat vs. $3-$5/rat as feeders). That being said, the connection between rats and snake-owners has already been made in the media, so damage-control is quite critical at this point.

This is what went out to the papers today:

In response to the story "Live rats dumped in city alley", 04.09.21; I would like to assure the Province of Alberta, City of Calgary, and the citizens of our city that both The Alberta Reptile and Amphibian Society, and Reptile Rescue Alberta support the laws of our province, condemn the keeping/breeding of any live rats in this province, and understand how serious the potential introduction of a destructive, invasive species such as the common or Norway rat could be. Both organisations hope for a swift and satisfactory completion to this investigation, and would like to offer any assistance that we can in this matter.

G. A. Christian Bilou
Director, Reptile Rescue Alberta
Legislative Co-Ordinator, T.A.R.A.S.

I have reason to believe that the authorities have a lead or two, and both point towards pet rat keepers...so cross your fingers on this one, as even if it is pet rats, there could still be some exotic backlash.

[Scales Zoo]

I liked how you put it on the pet rat keepers / breeders in the article I read. Well done!

I hope this is just bad timing, and not an act of malice or something.

Speaking of coincidental timing.....

Last Monday met with a Lawyer and then attended a R.M meeting, about a rat producer in this province being shut down. All went very well, and the many of the R.M. people actually had common sense, which prevailed in the end.

Anyhow.... Something interesting brought up was that college students used to let rats go in downtown Calgary as a college stunt. This was used to show that they don't survive, as downtown calgary is an excellent place for rats to live - which all of us Saskatchewan folk had a bit of a laugh over. But, what I also remembered, was being told about someone from B.C who used to let rats go at every TARAS show about 3 or 4 years back.
Here are some articles I've read

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1095814376823_62/?hub=Canada

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2004/09/21/638222-cp.html

http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2004/09/21/ratsalta_040921.html

http://edmonton.cbc.ca/regional/servlet/View?filename=ed_rats20040921

http://www.canada.com/calgary/calgaryherald/news/story.html?id=87ffeb34-abf1-48d6-b20a-df08571ff6cc

Ryan

[Toirtis]

Originally posted by Scales Zoo
I liked how you put it on the pet rat keepers / breeders in the article I read. Well done!

Well, rat-keepers being blamed may only be slightly better for herp people....there is still the possibility of reactive legislation on part of the city that could affect everyone.

I actually have a number of reasons to suspect a pet-rat breeder...not just the financial viability of such an operation, but the colours of the rats, along with the fact that if they were dumped, a pet-rat breeder would more likely have dumped them alive than simply euthanised then frozen them (as one would assume a feeder-breeder would have no qualms doing). I have since learned of some unpublished leads that seem to be pointing in the direction of a local underground subculture of rat-keepers.

[Scales Zoo]

Also, wasn't the university's rat permit pulled either because....

a) students let rats go as a stunt

b) some that weren't fully dead yet, were sent out in the trash and thrived at the Calgary dump?

c) both above are true

One of the articles mentions their fear that some will make it to the dump, which makes me wonder if it isnt' b or c.

Ryan

[Scales Zoo]

Originally posted by Toirtis
I have since learned of some unpublished leads that seem to be pointing in the direction of a local underground subculture of rat-keepers.

When they came for the jews......

Ryan

[Cruciform]

And what exactly are these "unpublished leads"?

Next thing we're going to hear that it was members of the Chinese community smuggling rats in for exotic dishes.

If you don't have REAL evidence to back up your claims, keep your slanderous mouth shut. It isn't helping ANYBODY to throw blame around.

[Derrick]

Originally posted by Cruciform
Next thing we're going to hear that it was members of the Chinese community smuggling rats in for exotic dishes.

lol you stole my line. People alway ask me what the rats are for an my first response is chinese food. Except the pinky mice...they're for popcorn chicken:D

[Scales Zoo]

And you are all welcome to join STAR, Save The Alberta Rats - a society started by myself, years ago, to save the endangered Alberta Rat. We are against the prosecution of the Alberta Rat, and are lobbying to have it considered a threatened and protected species in Alberta.

Ryan

[Cruciform]

Is that why everyone in the prairies votes Conservative? :)

[Toirtis]

Originally posted by Scales Zoo
Also, wasn't the university's rat permit pulled either because....

a) students let rats go as a stunt

b) some that weren't fully dead yet, were sent out in the trash and thrived at the Calgary dump?

c) both above are true

One of the articles mentions their fear that some will make it to the dump, which makes me wonder if it isnt' b or c.

Ryan

B is correct, but they did not have their permit yanked...just came damned close to it.

[Toirtis]

Originally posted by Cruciform
And what exactly are these "unpublished leads"?

What I was told in personal discussions with some of the investigators.

Next thing we're going to hear that it was members of the Chinese community smuggling rats in for exotic dishes.

No, that was bullfrogs, and both shops were fined several years back.

If you don't have REAL evidence to back up your claims, keep your slanderous mouth shut. It isn't helping ANYBODY to throw blame around.

If you live in Ontario and don't have even a tenuous grasp on the situation here, much less any actual facts, you may wish to shut your mouth before you ram your foot any deeper into it.

[Cruciform]

You have no proof to back up your claims, none of your so called "actual facts",and therefore could be just passing the buck.

If you said "I talked to Constable so and so, with the X detachment" so your statements could be checked that's one thing, but you didn't.

[Toirtis]

I was unaware that anyone would really care about names, etc, but, for the record, Bill Bruce, head of Calgary Animal Control Services, and John Bourne from Alberta Agriculture.

And, as you can see from today's news, what I said is true, and ironically, mentioned is made of Asian food, something I had nothing to do with.

http://www.canada.com/calgary/calgaryherald/news/story.html?id=e3678e85-45da-4676-96be-7052b40c81d1

[Cruciform]

Thanks.

I was already in a snappy mood, so I apologize, and this new information validates what you were saying in the first place. The danger in not providing backup info is that any "journalist" can come along and read us accusing rat breeders and crucify them, or encounter the same thing on a rat breeder forum where they blame us, and suddenly it's news.

The blame game is strong here in Ontario right now regarding Pit Bull ownership and some of the most ridiculous assumptions make it into the news because conflict between groups makes for good "human interest". Argh.

[Matt_K]

That's very big of you Mike.. Good to see you can own up to your mistakes.. Now EVERYONE, no one else needs to 'shut their mouth' no more mouth shutting... Let's keep this thread on the forums and not banished to where none of you can view it..

-Matt

[gonesnakee]

Well the medias on this like flys to ... I myself was awoken this morning by Michelle McDougal an A Channel reporter (local news stn.) She had lots of questions & wanted to come to my house with a camera crew & do an interview within the hour of the call. She had already called others as well. Long story short I declined & Christian will be on the news tonight. He is going down to the station with a Boa I beleive & some frozen feeder Rats to appease them with an interview. If I had beleived that it would have been good media coverage or wasn't just woke up with an hours notice, I would have let them come as I have nothing to hide, but with all this bad press already I didn't want to be part of it & I'm not really what some people would consider politically correct looking LOL I think it more appropriate that Chrisian deal with them as a board member of the TARAS society & rescue than myself as a private snake breeder. As already stated we have been drug into this enough already & her interest was rats not snakes & she wanted something RIGHT NOW not tomorrow when I suggested may be more appropriate for a camera crew to show up at my house. I'll be glad when this all blows over anyhow & hopefully us Herpers reps won't be any more damaged then they already have been as a direct result of this incident. Mark
P.S. BTW Ryan I need some more Live Rats now eh! JOKING

[Tim and Julie B]

How about a pack of feral Jack Russel terriers? We could release a pack into the wild for rat control! Oh but wait those poor chickens. What if we got Dobermans to control the Jack Russels.........oh nevermind.

[Invictus]

Shut the hell up, Matt. Who asked you?

:D

(Please don't ban me, hehehe)

[Matt_K]

Originally posted by Invictus
Shut the hell up, Matt. Who asked you?

:D

(Please don't ban me, hehehe)

:rolleyes: I knew it was just a matter of time.. Maybe i'll slap your name up on the bad list now :P LOL.. Just playing of course..