View Full Version : Male ETB dying :(
Greetings all,
Im so distraught tonight...
As some of you know, not even a month ago I recieved a 1.1 pair of ETB's from a Gent out in Calgary.
They arrived via plane and when I opened the box, both snakes were ICE cold...
I put both the snakes in their new homes (vision cages), temps at 80 / 82, humidity is 70 to 80%, light is 7am to 7pm.
Both ate for me, but the male regurged about 5 days ago... two days ago I noticed a raspy sound comming from the male when he breathed... I suspected possible respiratory infection...
I was going to give it a couple more days before bringing him to the vet.. Tonight I checked on him and he had coughed up a large ball of mucus... and was acting very listless..
I just checked on him again and found him on the ground completely limp :( He is not dead yet as his pupils are still responsive to light but he looks like he will not make the night... he has no rigidity to himself, just completely limp... sometimes he moves his tail...
Anyhow... the female is doing good... very reactive...
Does anyone think this is due to how the snakes arrived very cold? and would you guys expect the person that sold you the snakes to stand by them and hand back some of the money????
Sorry if I sound upset but I care deeply for my animals....
Ill keep you guys posted....
Checked on him again... He is gone :(
Im absolutely devistated... :( RIP
Bartman
09-19-04, 10:33 PM
Im so terribly sorry to hear the news. It must be very hard.
I am really sorry to hear that...sounds like you did your best.
Id definately contact the person who you bought them from and tell him the situation. Most breeders will stand by the animals they produce and will help you out as best they can. If both animals are kept in the same environments and shipped the same way it seems maybe the male wasnt in the greatest health to begin with. Im sorry to hear about your loss but the best thing to do is follow up with the person you got them from, since it is quite a financial loss as well.
aww man...im so sorry to hear that! i know you tried your best to provide for them! and it pains me to see that my advice, and most of all your efforts were not enough!
My condolences to you my friend!
Josh
Sounds like they were not shipped properly, which in turn was the cause of the person who sent them to you. Hope everything works out...;)
Thank you to everyone for their thoughts.
I have sent emails and PMs to the guy who sent them. I will keep you all posted on what comes of this :(
(All I really want is my snake alive)
Hi, sorry to hear of your loss. However, a bit of advice. Since they were shipped together, there is a very good chance the female also has an RI and is just not showing signs of it yet. It would probably be a good idea to get her to a vet so that they can listen to her lungs. ETBs are EXTREMELY good at hiding illness until they are practically dead as you have just unfortunately found out.
Karen
Karen,
Good advice... :(
Yes very good at hiding illness.. :(
bistrobob85
09-20-04, 10:52 PM
Wow, you guys are going to give me paranoia!! I hope my snake never catches RI... i keep him between 82-85 degrees and always over 80% humidity...
Bistrobob85 ,
Ive kept allot of snakes over many years and yes some have gotten sick.. but NOTHING like how quickly my male Emerald got sick and passed...
Im still baffled at how quickly he deteriorated once he showed symptoms :(
Well here is an update...
Ive tried contacting the seller a couple of times... and have not heard back...
Ill give it another day or two before I start feeling ignored
Is the seller a breeder/dealer or just a random person?
It was a private person that was trying sell off some of his collection... :(
Now Im really not feeling warm and fuzzy.. when I try to call him, I get a msg from Telus that the number has been temporarily disconnected :(
I think Im gunna pay dearly for buying from this guy... :(
If he shows me no love at all Im gunna post names...
Ill keep you guys posted...
im so sorry.I hope you get in touch with him.
Sorry to hear for your loss. Hopefully the female fares better than the male did :(
bistrobob,
It's a good idea to cycle humidity throughout the day and let a low period occur. If they are kept at a constant high humidity, they can develop such problems as scale rot, etc. They shouldn't drop below 60% at any time though.
Linds, you bring up a good point..
We hear allot about scale rot... but not much about what it looks like...
maybe someone wants to desribe it?
You can expect the skin to be pinkish and the scales to become discoloured (reddish, orange, brownish). Dermatitis may also display a flakey look to the scales, or raised appearance.
Linds,
Thank you very much :)
Update,
Still cannot get in touch with the seller... :(
How long do you guys think I should wait before I start naming names?
Shadow,
I understand how you feel about the lose, but make sure you rehash in your mind the agreement with and terms of the seller before you trash them. Too many times, out of emotion, folks trash someone and it ends up that the terms of the sale were in favor of the seller. Not saying this is the case in your situation, but make sure all your ducks are in a row. I have bought animals fully aware they were risks (WC's) but was willing to take the gamble.
CraigC
CraigC
I am absolutely sure about this..
Before the snakes were shipped he stated they were going to be shipped with heat pads to keep them warm. When I picked them up at the airport, they were freezing, and I mean like being in a fridge... I told the shipper immediately and he said they should be fine, that he didnt have time to go buy heat pads...
What really bugs me CraigC is that he disappeared off the face of the earth once problems developed.. I mean he disconnected his phone, and is not responding to emails etc...
Im more than confident my ducks are all lined up and when the time comes to name him.. I will.. If I were doing this out of emotion, I would have named him already.. Ive actually put allot of thought into this, I dont wanna trash anyone... unless I feel I was taken advantage of...
woah wait a ticky... you mean your emeralds wern't shipped with heat packs? they were up some... what is it 3000 ft? in an atmosphere that is just to damn cold without heat packs? and all because the individual didnt have time to get heat packs?
I'm sorry i dont care what kind of gauarantee they gave you...its null and void after a stunt like that! i would personally like to know who this is Shadow, so send me a pm with their name...
thats rediculous!
Josh
CraigC, it seems cut and dry. Seller didn't hold up his/her end of the deal. Seller could have delayed shipping by a day if he or she didn't have time to include a neccesary item such as heat packs. I'm sure ShadOw would have agreed to wait a day or two to ensure PROPER shipping.. Not answering emails and disconnecting a phone line in my mind, lets one know that the seller was aware of his or her misdeeds...I'm curious to know who it was to. ShadOw, if you have time, PM me the sellers name and location..
Kimo and JonD, Ive pm'ed both of ya
Dark_Angel_25
09-22-04, 01:25 PM
Sha0ow, maybe this case deserves a post formyou on the BOI. I know I would want the details to be able to avoid this person, and who knows, maybe there are others who have already made complaints. have you checked? you may be surprised...
Dark Angel 25,
That is my intention.. like I said, Im giving him the benefit of the doubt.. I hate being nasty... but give it a week.. and I will post on BOI
Here is an update,
Originally the seller gave me what appears to be a cell phone (which is now disconnected), Ive used 411.ca to do a reverse lookup on his mailing address and found what appears to be his home number... Ive called and left a msg on the machine.. lets see what happens...
Folks,
I am not questioning Shadow, I am merely considering how the BOI is in regards to proof. They are sometimes the perfect example of the "train wreck" rubber neckers, making conclusions based on hear say only to be proven wrong in the out come. We have been victims that were eventually proven right, but the owner will not remove "bad Guy" posts nor amend the title even though the original poster was totally in the wrong. They will demand "proof positive" from both parties and unless it is documentable, no one is right. Again, I'm not questioning Shadow, just making a recommendation.
CraigC
CraigC,
I am getting a better idea of what kind of guy the seller is...
Im getting PM's that have mentioned his exact name, just from knowing the area, also highlighting negative experiences...
What really hurts me is that Emmy's are really my dream herp... and I finally put together some extra cash to buy a pair, and I spared no expense in terms of husbandry... and I got hung out to dry :(
bistrobob85
09-22-04, 07:13 PM
Yeah, that really sucks... ETBs are also in my dream herps and i really wouldn't take it if it had happened to me... I would also like to know from who you got you animals, cause i reserved an ETB from someone who asn't given me news in two weeks... Shadow, can you please PM me the name of the guy who you got your ETBs from. Thanks.
phil.
Hey Bistrobob85,
Ive PM'ed ya...
leoncurrie
09-22-04, 07:21 PM
Hi Shadow,
I am very curious as to who this person is. Please pm me with his name and location
OKay guys, Ive learned more from PM's... Here is the scoop... BTW, now Im really pissed...
Initially the seller was selling a trio, one male and two females...
They were originally sold to a gent in winnipeg, so he shipped them from calgary to winnipeg.
The purchaser was not happy with two of the snakes because he believed one to have a respiratory infection, and the other he was not too keen on... so back they went from winnipeg to calgary....
Then the seller sells the two returned snakes to me... which includes the one with a RI....
(originally i wanted the trio, but he informed me the third was already sold)
He ships them to me with no heat pads in the box and they arrive freezing cold...
I inform him of this immediately and he ensures me they will be fine.
3 weeks later, the male passes away due to RI... :( Unfortunately I did not detect the RI in time...
NOW I FEEL even worse... Ive been completely had :(
leoncurrie
09-22-04, 09:03 PM
I'm sorry to hear that. Do you have a name and location to share?
leoncurrie,
I have PM'ed you
Another development,
I have called his house again, and this time I think I got the sellers mom...
I told her that it was urgent that I talk to her son, it was regarding a snake purchase I made from him, she told me he was not home and that she has already told him about the message I left on the phone... clearly I am being avoided... :(
Artemis
09-23-04, 01:48 AM
Shadow, do you have any kind of written contract? If you do, hang onto it tightly, along with copies of any email correspondences you may have. The next thing I would do is call dude up at home, and whether you get the machine or mommy, let him know he has one week to contact you before he hears from your lawyer. This usually promotes a response, even if merely an idle threat.
Knowing the scary prices of ETBs I can imagine you are out a significant chunk. If you have any lawyers in your circle of friends and family, then you might want to consider contacting them. If you dont, I would call around to some local lawyers who might be willing to give dude a call. Explain to them how much you are out, and that you just want to get your money back. They might take a cut of it for their help, but getting some of your money back is better than getting none of it back, and this dude could use a little litigation and hardball to prevent him from doing this to others in the future.
Best of luck, and very sorry for your losses-
Artemis
Hi Artemis,
Good advice, thanks...
I am considering litigation
Okay, new PM from the guy that dealt with this yahoo regarding the ETB's:
Hi there Bob:
Yes, ****** is **** on the forum.
My deal with him was to be a trade for ETB' s and my BRB's in which he sent me the ETB' s for inspection before I send the BRB' s. In the end I was not happy with any and was ready to send all 3 back to him. He could not pay for the shipping back to him so I agreed to keeping the best of the 3 and sent the 2 plus a ball python to complete the order and cover the shipping. All the ETB' s were WC and not worth being in anyone' s collection. The 3rd is at my friend' s house till it passes quarinteen for a year. It eats now but has not improved much since I got it. The other 2 were in much worse shape with whizzing and the male with a deformed jaw line. All 3 were shipped to me in an aweful manner and I was surprized they survived.
If these 2 are the ones he sold you, that is really bad cause he knew they were WC' s and that they were sick. I told him once he got them back he should have them vet checked and not sell for 1 year to be sure they are better and healthier. If anything he knew they were not and wanted to cash in on them fast.
I normally deal with only true breeders but he contacted me and after his origal advertisement came down from $2700 - $2000 I gave it a shot but I knew I was gonna see something funny sooner or later. Its an experience that I will not try twice.
Since you live close to ***, it is best you get good stock from a breeder. I got a few from *** and I am very happy. Never buy from a no name and never off a sweet deal either cause you get what you pay for......the overall deal was a waste of time and effort from ******,
Email me at:
***************
If you need anything else.
Cya...
====================
This whole scam selling the sick ETB's seems so premeditated.. I feel sick over this.
Again I have called his mom's house and was informed by Ryan, ******'s sisters boyfriend that ****** does not live there anymore and has not for some time.
I got his mom's name, Louise...
I also informed him that if ****** does not contact me within one week, litigation would begin.
I also again sent emails to D***** explaining my position and how I want my money back
Buying my dream herps has turned out to be nothing but a nightmare :(
reptile boi
09-23-04, 06:01 PM
I think i know who this person might be, but i could be wrong, shad0w, could u please pm me n tell me who this person might be?
Thanks,
Ben
reptile boi,
Ive tried to PM you but your box is full so I dropped ya an email
Okay, have another update...
After calling his mother and informing her that if I dont hear from ******
within 1 week I would persue litigation, guess who called me back?
Yep... However, he was allot less than acommodating, and was very
unprofessional in his use of language... Thats fine, I know everyone
involved in this situation is frustrated...
So I told him we can either handle this the hard way via litigation or we
can work something out... again he was not very accomodating... he had
to get back to work but promised to call me back... we will see...
Here is the thing.. Im a reasonable guy, and Im not looking to milk
anything, its my view that we both should share the loss here and make
compromises, ie: Im not looking for every cent to be given back...
BUT if he continues to be stubborn and does not want to discuss how we can
recitfy this, I dont care if it costs me thousands in lawyer fee's, I will
persue litigation just on the principal...
If Im going to spend thousands on litigation, so will he, if he wants to let it get to that point.
And for what? what would make this all go away? Honestly, I paid $1150
plus a JCP for the snakes... All I want to make me feel not so bad is
some (not all money) returned, or a snake or two.... I dont think thats so unreasonable...
So is litigation worth it? If Im forced into it... $5000 in litigation fees would be well worth it.. for peace of mind... this whole ordeal has been
emotionally distressing...
Id just try to get compensation for the male ETB. If the female is still doing okay and isnt showing signs of illness that would be the most logical step.
Artemis
09-23-04, 07:41 PM
Told ya threatening to get the lawyers involved prompts a response. I hope you got current contact info once you had him on the phone. You should also try and SCHEDULE definite times to discuss this with him. It seems logical that he has already spent the money you have given him and that is why he is ducking you, because he doesnt actually have the cash to refund you at this time. I would tell him a DOLLAR AMOUNT you expect to recieve from him by a certain date. If possible, fax him a refund contract that he can sign and fax back to you, get everything you can in writing. If your state has one party consent (meaning one person rather than 2 in a phone call) then TAPE your conversations with him. Keep that paper trail. If it comes down to litigation you want to have documented as thoroughly as possible what steps you have taken to resolve this on your own.
Don't let this get you down about the dream snakes hon. There are more ETBs to be had and I bet you are young. Besides, this may be a hard lesson, but its a good lesson in how to handle yourself in private business transactions, and better prevent this from happening in future ones.
Still wishing you the best-
Artemis
Hi Artemis,
The ducks are all lined up... paper trail is complete.
Thanks for the well wishes :)
Ill keep you guys posted
Hey Bob...I figured after talking to you today i would come on here now that i have seen all of this Bashing...I am not a bad person and im not here to rip anyone off ...My appoligies for not responding very quickly but i have a little girl and a full time job that takes all my time...i dont have the internet and yes my phone was disconnected because i have other responsiblilities besides reptiles...again my appoligies...now to clarify some things...When those snakes were shipped they were shipped properly...the temps outside here and in toronto were both okay, not to mention WESTJET has heated cargo...I of all people am very upset at the fact My Emerald has passed...that was my snake and i didnt want to get rid of them unfortunatly i have bills to pay...When those snakes left Calgary they were both 100% in health...A few months previous The Female was sick your right...but unlike what you and tony both think she had a Cold...NOT RI...and she was taken to the vet and treated with Baytril for 3 weeks...I also took some advice and raised their heat up some and never had a problem after that...They both ate F/T with ease...I honestlly dont know what to say to you Bob i figured you would be a bit more mature about this situation seeing as you are a Experienced Keeper...I didnt think you would be the type of person to bash someone because you couldnt get ahold of them for a week...So to all you people out there that have been reading these forums i just wanted you all to know that im here to amke deals not rip people off....After seeing all of this i truly wish i hadnt shipped my snakes to Shadow...i should have asked more questions and answered more questions but the deal was quick i trusted him he trusted me...And if you were so unhappy with the deal why didnt you say somthing right away instead of saying they were beautiful and then sending your JCP to me which by the way is doing great...
Dustan, YOU know you shipped the snakes with NO HEAT PADS... those snakes were down right COLD when they arrived... YOU know i reported that right away... They felt like they were in a fridge.. and YOU said you would ship them with heat pads... YOU were the one that told me not to worry, they would be fine... I was so happy to recieve these snakes because they were my dream animals... YOU KNOW THAT.. I was in euphoria...
PLS do not try to twist things around... The ONLY thing that got you to call me was to threaten legal action.. which by the way will continue if we do not resolve this
Oh and Dustan, until now, names were not mentioned.. but since they are now...
Everyone, pls try to refrain from purchasing snakes from him unless you want to be disappointed...
Dustan, Im not the ONLY one you've done this to... I will not drag in names because thats not fair.. but Im not the ONLY one...
And Dustan, put yourself in my shoes, my only contact with you, a cell number is disconnected (dispite the reasons) just after I email you telling you of the problems... what would you think?
Now i have questions for you...When you recieved them did they look healthy and did they not eat right away for you?...You probably shouldnt have stressed them out the first night by feeding them but they deficated so i suppose that worked out...also do you think it is appropriate to have them in a basement in the corner of a concrete wall?...When you seen signs why didnt you take them to the vet?...And did you know that RI can be airborne? And if the male has been infected for all this time dont you think you might be seeing signs from the female? some things you should watch out for...When She was diagnosed with a COLD i had her to the vet ASAP I didnt wait....Also when the snakes were shipped it was according to my Records it was 24 Celcius in Calgary and 22 In Toronto so i highly doubt that he would have got sick from that flight...they were shipped proper...I learned how to ship From TONY so you know....I am extremly upset you had bad things to say about me...and i hope all readers will look at both sides before deciding i am a bad person...I will talk to you more Tomorrow...after work...I cant gauranteee you a time because im busy but i will try my best to make it fairly early.....If anyone has questions or comments for me please feel free to IM me Email me or just post it on here...I just want everyone to knwo that the snakes were healthy when they left and up till now Bob was quite happy with them...
RIP (BigGuy)...
Dustan
Here are the words from the other person you dealt with that returned the snakes... are we BOTH wrong?
My deal with him was to be a trade for ETB' s and my BRB's in which he sent me the ETB' s for inspection before I send the BRB' s. In the end I was not happy with any and was ready to send all 3 back to him. He could not pay for the shipping back to him so I agreed to keeping the best of the 3 and sent the 2 plus a ball python to complete the order and cover the shipping. All the ETB' s were WC and not worth being in anyone' s collection. The 3rd is at my friend' s house till it passes quarinteen for a year. It eats now but has not improved much since I got it. The other 2 were in much worse shape with whizzing and the male with a deformed jaw line. All 3 were shipped to me in an aweful manner and I was surprized they survived.
If these 2 are the ones he sold you, that is really bad cause he knew they were WC' s and that they were sick. I told him once he got them back he should have them vet checked and not sell for 1 year to be sure they are better and healthier. If anything he knew they were not and wanted to cash in on them fast.
Dustan,
Call me a liar, but you know I reported RIGHT away that those snakes were extremely cold...
I had emailed you a number of times regarding the snake not acting right... you told me not to worry...
Everyone knows how the snakes are kept.. a constant 82 degress, at 60 to 80% humidity in vision cages.. that does not need to be debated...
First signs of a RI were observed on Friday night.. Being away most of the weekend, Sunday when returning, it was way too late to do anything for him...
Im extremely upset over this...
and Dustan, until we resolve this, my opinion of you will remain the same... I would never buy from you again... You misrepresented what you were about and what you sold...
One way or another.. this will get worked out.. everything has been recorded
You know very well im not in the bad for this and i will show everyone the quality of my reptiles once im ready to set up tables at the reptile shows i have quite a small collection right now but ALL of my snakes are 100% healthy and I will be producing lots of boas this year...I cant really say anything else seeing as your not going to stop bashing me...people will see the quality in my reptiles soon...i have done deals with many people and they have had nothing bad to say about me...Im sorry this worked out this way, maybe you should have had a little more patience...and im not bashing you Bob but maybe you should read up on animals you are going to buy before you purchase them..
BTW... Dustan, I appreciate you calling me tommorow.. will discuss this further then
Dustan, and you say Im bashing?
All you are doing is bashing my husbandry..
Nothing was wrong with how they were kept.. the female is doing great....
Ya shipped em wrong.. stand up like a man and admit it...
God I hope no one ends up buying anything from you at this point... You do not back your animals at all, even when you are at fault
Dustan, trust me.. I hate bashing anyone... if you are reasonable and want to work this out, we will not have a problem..
Artemis
09-23-04, 08:50 PM
Well, im not sure if snakes can get colds. Linds? Boidkeeper? Yodas? A snake cold in my mind IS a respitory infection. Am I wrong in thinking that gurus?
And Dist, we all try to keep an open mind here, but if the snake didnt make it, and had a pre-exisiting condition that Tony (I am assuing he is the guy who sent the snakes back to you after he found them unsatisfactory) and Shadow both found to be ill, you acknowledge they both told you this, but you call it a cold.. I dont know about all that.... the vet may have said the word "cold" to you, using laymans terms, but if it was treated with Baytril, then it was definitely ill with something not good, whatever you want to call it.
I, and probably no one else, wants to get in the middle of how you two resolve this, but I will say that as the seller, dist, if you want to maintain a good reputation sometimes it means having to cut your losses. The snake just wasnt healthy. Shouldn't sell unhealthy animals, cold, respitory infection, whatever. Even if it was shipped in proper temperatures, the stress of shipping would easily be enough to tip the scales in a bad way for an already unwell snake. Sucks, lesson learned for both of you, and I hope you can resolve it.
Artemis
When you picked the snakes up this is what you told me when i called you"Hey Dustan im at the airport right now everything looks okay but i will inspect them more when i get home and as for you sending me emails about them not being well thats so untrue...you asked me more about their feeding habits thats all nothing else...i cant believe you are going through all this drama before even recieving an answer from me...Thats Childish!...I wasnt quite sure on my decision whether i wanted to give you back money seeing as you have had them for exactly 28 Days...I really wanted to help you and i probably could have managed to come up with some money for you but you had to say bad things about me to try and ruin my reputation which i havnt really built yet..imk fairly new to this hobby but i have done much reseach in the few years i have had reptiles...Thank you for giving me a chance to say my piece. Not that it will matter now....If you have to take this into litigation so be it...im sorry this venture turned out like this.
Dustan,
According to you, you had no intentions to give any of the money back.. and remember, not once did I name you until you showed up here.. which is fine by me... You know I informed you that the snakes were very cold.. I remember, you called my cell.. I was in my car at the time....
You know my number, if we do not settle this in any matter within one week, litigation will proceed and we will both end up spending allot of money... I dont care, its the principle... Not to mention, you ensured that your rep was going to be ruined by naming yourself.. I really didnt wanna do that to you...
And Dustan, I have all communications with you saved... dont call me a liar pls
Dustan, instead of acting like this, why dont you give me a contact number, and we will take this offline.. there really is no need to be continuing this here... You can PM me or call me collect if you wish..
Dont any of you people think that in 30 days you would see somthing anything? i know they can hide illnesses quite well but cmon 30 days!...if this had of been 2 weeks ago i would have said ship them back and i would have BACKED my snakes...but i dont know their conditions and i dont know whether you knwo what you doing.....so i feel like i shouldnt take the crap end of this deal...i know it was my snake and im very sad he has died...but its a deal...and a month is a long time...not to mention you havnt been the nicest person calling my mothers house threating me. im in a huge predicament right now....but i dont knwo details....to many what if's...esecially when they were perfect before they left....shipping temps had nothing to do with it..
BTW,
Here is msgs Ive sent you:
Hey Dustan,
Just an update on the ETB's...
The female is doing really well... feeding, active, etc...
The male however is not... He took a mouse but regurged it... A week later, same thing... I think he has a respiratory infection... I can hear a clicking sound when he breathes... (suspect might be from how cold he was when on the plane..) I am going to give it another week before bringing him to a vet, but he is not feisty anymore, will not strike even out of defense... The little guy is worrying me
Anyhow, just wanted to let ya know.
So why did you PM people telliong them who i was ??????? before tonight???????
Dustan,
I was very polite to your mother.. I even told her I felt bad for calling her but you had fallen off of the face of the earth... my only contact number for you was disconnected...
I calmly explained the situation as to why I needed to get in touch with you and that I would have to begin litigation if I did not hear from you within a week.. I didnt threaten anyone.. I was very polite and apologetic...
WHY did you wait the week?????
Dustan, Ive PM'ed people but who says I gave names.. In fact, I asked them to give you the benefit of the doubt so that we can see if this could be worked out
Dustan, people do have to go out of town ya know... its not like people can watch a snake 24/7...
Dood.. can we pls take this offline and deal with this like adults.. Im sure yer as tired as I am with finger pointing.. the way I see it.. we both take a loss on this and we move on... no harm.. Im not even looking for a large amount... Im more than reasonable.. but you have not even tried to talk to me.. you totally backed me into a corner.. and made me feel very ripped off
Bob im done....im not going to sit here and argue...i feel that you want to take advantage of me...i will try and call you tomorrow but i dont really see myself giving you any money...whether that makes me a bad person or not....now that i have seen and heard this side of you i regret ever doing this deal with you...
Do what you have to do...i hope that everyone will be open minded and see my side of this....i will be at the Calgary show on saturday to deal with breeders not private people...I have definetly learned my lesson...i will obviously keep learning and growing in this Hobby whether people like me or not..Its a hobby for me, not a way to scam people. I love reptiles and im not going anywhere....Thanks for your time Bob...Talk to you later..
Im going to take pictures of all of my enclosures and reptiles and i will post them all ASAP..i dont have a camera but i will borrow one soon...
Dustan,
Like I said.. lets take this offline...
I dont want to argue with you either,
and if you feel like nothing given back is warrented, I will do what I need to by persuing legal action...
Dustan, Im not making you look like the bad guy... you are... You told me straight up there have been two people you have shipped to.. and both of us had negative experiences thus far with you...
Pls contact me offline tommorow.. my opinion of you is not what you might think.. Both of us are frustrated... you just have not given me a chance to voice it... all you did was curse and swear on the phone today...
Ive been watching this thread since the start and it seems both parties are partially at fault but Dist, if you want to make a name for yourself in this business you have to have a quality control on your animals. If you didnt take the proper steps such as a heat pad while shipping, that may have contributed alot to the stress of the animals. Also if you sold an animal that was already sick, that probably was not a good idea, and the outcome of the male dying was a complete possibility.
Its probably smarter for both of you to settle this outside of court because your gonna spend thousands, and that can really cripple your upcoming collections for both parties. Both of you should cut your losses and settle this admirably. Which includes not on the forum. There are way too many personal messages of blame going on. Good luck to you both.
Just settle it like real men, Jack Daniels, shot for shot....last man standing wins!!!!!:D
Big V,
Sounds like a good thing..
I have been asking him to discuss this offline.. And I really dont wanna have to waste thousands of dollars in court costs... I wanna settle this for probably less than he thinks.. .he doesnt even want to discuss it...
Im more than willing to split the loss with him, Im reasonable.
I am still giving him the benefit of the doubt and hope that he contacts me today and wants to discuss how we can settle this whole mess.
I can hear a clicking sound when he breathes... (suspect might be from how cold he was when on the plane..) I am going to give it another week before bringing him to a vet, but he is not feisty anymore, will not strike even out of defense... The little guy is worrying me
Shadow,
All else aside, from this statement my opinion is that your decision to wait was the major contributing factor for the snake's death. The signs were there why on earth did you wait? The animals health should have been at the fore front of your actions.
We keep amikacin on hand just for this reason, because when symptoms show up it is usually far along and you need to take immediate action.
I'm sorry if you get angry at me but I think if you step back for a minute you will realize you should have acted on the symptoms.
CraigC
CraigC,
Im not angry with ya :)
I told D even, from the time I first heard the click... on my way out of town on business.. till the day I returned a few days later, the snake was gone...
CraigC, keep in perspective that shipping without heat pads was probably the major contributing factor to the snake getting sick in the first place... esp when he specifically said he would be using them.. and then didnt... He knows perfectly well the first thing I told him about the snakes was they were VERY cold.
Not to mention selling me snakes that just were shipped from calgary to winnipeg and back again, then to me in toronto... because a breeder in winnipeg returned them after seeing them, advising Dustan he should not sell those snakes until theyve remained in quarenteen for a year after a vet checked them out as they appeared very sickly to him...
He sold me the snakes under the pretense they were premium snakes.
As far as Im concerned, he has fault in this..
But lets not rehash all of this.. its all in the thread...
Lets see if he is decent enough to call me and see if we can work something out
Good Day everyone...
As of right now, no more information will be given about this sour deal, I dont want to bother anyone with this dragged out thread anymore...
Those that wish to be kept up to date are more than welcome to either email or PM me.
Thanks and Enjoy the weekend everyone
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