question

[corn king 73]

hi i have a question why are bci's so hard to sell lol.i've tried sell and i've even tried trading but know one want to buy or trade for bci's .i think it because they get so big lol.what do you guy's and gal's think lol.les

[marisa]

Because they are so common like corns now.

I want to get into boas myself, but I won't be getting BCI's unless they are TOP of the line. Just no point anymore unless you really love them as a species. Lots of people breeding BCI's lately, and they can be had cheap almost anywhere.

What we need more of is insane clean BCI's and morphs.

Marisa

[corn king 73]

well mine are pastel's and my male is a circle back lol at lease thats what paul told me lol.

[marisa]

Well, I myself do not own BCI's but unless you can show they came from pastels, then its hard to sell them unless they are CLEARLY outstanding looking as anything other than normals. That's just the way it is. Now, you might have screaming pastels, in which case they should sell fairly quickly if your price is right.

I am sure the keepers and breeders of BCI will have better insights to share with you.

Marisa

[corn king 73]

thanks marise but how can i prove that they are pastel's?

[marisa]

I am just saying that if they are indeed pastels, buyers will know it with a simple pic and will pay appropriate prices.

If your price is already low yet none are selling, double check with other breeders to see how high or low qaulity yours are, and adjust. See what others sell true pastel BCI for. Look at pastel pics on other forums. The price accourdingly.

Marisa

[corn king 73]

ok thank alot.les

[corn king 73]

male

[corn king 73]

female

[MormonBoa]

how much have you tried to sell them for?

[corn king 73]

i'm asking 230 for the pair?

[corn king 73]

ok i have one more question by looking at the pix what do you think? pastels or not pastels?

[JonD]

Can't tell from those pics....;)

[Invictus]

We need A) MUCH bigger pics, and B) Pics that show the tail. What determines if they are pastels is if they have almost no black, especially in the tail. Most BCIs have very black tails, but pastels have very little speckling.

Also, have you considered that you can't sell them because you're not willing to ship? At least your ad doesn't say so. You will never sell anything in this country until you learn how to ship. Just my thoughts.

[corn king 73]

males tail

[corn king 73]

females tail

[corn king 73]

bigger pic

[corn king 73]

this is the bigest i can get them.

[Linds]

'Pastel' boas were actually a selectively bred line by Jeff Ronne. So to have a true 'pastel' boa you would ideally need to have one of such lineage. You can have light coloured boas, or pastel-type boas however. There are so many opinions, and controversies surrounding all of that, I generally just avoid using that term altogether.

'Circlebacks' are not a morph or even a trait that demands any higher price tag. All it means is that the saddles are connected on the sides and they arc in the way so that from the top they look like circles going down the back. Many Bci display something of that effect, some more extreme than others.

Though it is hard to tell since she is directly under the light, your female looks to be quite light, your male looks average however.

[Invictus]

Sorry, the pics are too blurry, and I can't see how much black is in the tail.

Jeff Ronne didn't "invent" the pastel line, he merely defined it. A pastel boa doesn't have to be from Ronne. He goes into great detail on his site of what constitutes a pastel boa, and he describes it basically as I did - almost no black, especially in the side of the tail.

[corn king 73]

lol i wish i had a better camera lol.

[bighillreptiles]

here is one of the littermates to the male http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v478/bighillreptiles/04mailbci.jpg and here is the litter mate to the femalehttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v478/bighillreptiles/Im000723.jpgpaul next to no black thay will lighten up as thay grow

[corn king 73]

see paul i like that female but the male is to dark lol.

[Linds]

I haven't been to his site recently. I do recall several years back though having the 'pastel conversation'. It had been brought up that he was the first person to actually apply the term 'pastel' to the boa market. If I recall correctly, quite a few people were up in arms about non-Ronne animals being called pastels back then, maybe things changed since. I haven't really kept up on what's happening there. I know he has his 'pastel dream' line, which he did indeed create through selectively breeding his own animals. By the definition you gave however, it would fit that of a true hypo boa :confused: I'll go check out what Jeff has on his page as well. Maybe I will still be confused. LOL... tis why no-brainer morphs are the way to go! :D Ya can't say an albino ISN"T an albino :p

Corn King,
Both animals are 'normals'.

[corn king 73]

linds how about the two pix that paul posted ?pastel or normals?

[bighillreptiles]

pastel is a term for nice looking bci that are bred for their reduced black and color and nice clean look to them unless they are hypo's as far as i know

[JaredAren]

It is now generally accepted that there are multiple bloodlines of pastel boas that have been created through selective breeding. Ronne sell his line, Whashington Pastels, and Tudehope Pastels on his website. Others that have pastel lines are EBV with thier Red Groups and Davey Fig with his Davey's Pastels. I think in general people have been given the ok to use the term pastel for boas that fit Ronne's description and people then identify their seperate line with a new term before the word pastel. It is my beleif that normal boas can throw a few pastelish babies and selecting these and breeding them with similar animals is how nice pastels have come along. Ronne describes on his website how he did this himself through selective breeding and he describes the fact that when he breeds a pastel to a normal or even to another pastel the offsrpiong are not all pastels. They have a varied amount of pastelish qualities, from freakin awesome to pretty much normal looking animals. Pastels are my favorite "morph" if you can even call it a morph. It is my opinion that nothing beats a nice light normal Pastel BCI.

http://showcase.netins.net/web/reptiles/stuff/Pastels/4.JPG

[JaredAren]

Here is an article written by Jeff Ronne:

PASTEL BOA

I purchased my first "Orange-Tail" Hypos three or four years ago. I had heard of them before but had not seen them until that time. When thoughtfully looking them over I realized what made the hypos or what the net effect of being a Hypo was. They have an overall wash involving a reduction of black pigmentation over the entire Boa. They also have reduced black in the black rings around the tail blotches. I had been selectively breeding my Boas for many generations already and had primarily selected for one thing in particular that other people didn't really look for. Most breeders like contrast. I like contrast too but the Boas I enjoyed most were the babies without contrast because they generally tended to be much lighter and or more colorful than those with great contrast. I have raised a number of Boas with good contrast in the past and they usually turned quite dark, as they got older. I never liked that. I wanted ‘em light and or with great color. I was fortunate from the beginning in that I had acquired a number of animals that had great color already and through breeding them with other nice Boas was able to produce even nicer, lighter, more colorful babies with each generation. Which brings me back to my revelation. I was looking over the "Orange-Tail" hypos I had acquired when I realized I had Boas with the same overall reduction in black. In particular, the blotches on the sides that typically contained black were very washed out in the "Orange-Tail" hypos. Many of the babies I had been producing had this same characteristic. The blotches on the sides just had far less black than did normal Boas. They also had the overall wash reducing black over the entire animal. They do not have the large reduction in the rings around the tail blotches like the "Orange-Tail" hypos have nor do they muddy up like the "Orange-Tail" hypos when they get larger. These Boas, which I named "Pastels", were fairly rare. The trait seems to be a recessive genetic characteristic which works like skin color in humans. Lighter skin color is a recessive trait but not simple recessive like blue eyes are for instance to brown eyes. Each generation I have been able to produce slightly more than the previous generation using selective breeding. Occasionally I will get an unusually patterned "Pastel" which I have kept for myself. I still have not bred a "Pastel" with a "Pastel" so I don’t know yet what will happen when I do that but it can only get better. The best part about the "Pastel" characteristic is the reduction in black. One side benefit has been in producing Pastels I have babies with much more color coming through than most other Boas. Don’t confuse the orange and or pink colors I have produced with the "Pastel" characteristic that reduces the overall wash of black allowing the underlying colors to come through. Not all Pastels have great color. Many are just very light and or washed out.

Article compliments of: Jeff Ronne

[JaredAren]

If you have a lot of free time here is some info about psatel boas from Ronne himself.

http://www.theboaforum.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=boapics1;action=display;num=10508807 14;start=0

A quick quote from the text:
"I have been reticent to make dogmatic statements about how the "Pastel" trait works. This has and remains to be a learning experience for me. I still don't have all the answers regarding this genetic anomaly and am not sure we will ever know exactly how and why it works like it does."------Jeff Ronne

[JaredAren]

Another quote from Ronne:
"Now certainly some Pastel bloodlines have more red than others. That is obvious. However the red or orange does not make any Boa "Pastel". The reduction of black makes Pastels Pastel. The red or orange makes them better but do not define them. Pattern anomalies, while desirable for many of us and perhaps more common in Pastels, do not define it either." --Jeff Ronne

[JaredAren]

Last quotes for those that did not want to read 10 pages!

"Many other people have what are definitely Pastels but many others simply have pretty animals they mistakenly call Pastels because of a misunderstanding of what a Pastel is. Identifying Pastels can be and is subjective. It is very much a matter of opinion. There are definitely degrees of "Pastelism". How much Pastelism is required to label an animal "Pastel"? I don't know what measure others may use, but I know what I look for in babies. I look for nearly no black in the side pattern. A very small amount of black can be found but nearly none normally. Over the years I had produced Pastels not knowing what they were. Just knowing that they were beautiful Boas to me and I kept the best to produce more and better animals. After years of breeding and generations down the road I am getting far more Pastels in individual litters than I used to get. Color is something that is enhanced by the Pastel trait not something that defines it at all. I have had Boas with tons of color that were not what I would call "Pastel". Color alone does not a Pastel make. Some Pastels have virtually no color or at least no desirable color but remain Pastel nonetheless.--- Jeff Ronne

"The only time to date I have successfully bred Pastel to Pastel was when I produced the Ivory Boas. The result was nearly all Pastel babies. So most of my Pastels come from Pastel bred to Pastel bloodline animals. From these breedings about half the babies are Pastels. Breeding a Pastel to a non-Pastel will net you some Pastels. " --- Jeff Ronne

[corn king 73]

ya but the question still is do i have pastel's lol i don't want to call them pastels if there not lol.paul said they're pastel and linds said that they are normal which are they?
thanks for everyone's time. les

[rwg]

You need to show better pics. I dont know if it's the camera or not, but better lighting and some close-up shots would help.

[corn king 73]

well the pix that paul posted are bother and sister of my snake i just want to know if i got ripped off .i want to knon if there pastel or not look at the breeders pix which is paul vanhooser and please tell me if they are pastel or not.les

[Pontus]

from what i can see they just look normal but try getting a better cam off a friend so we can see better

[bighillreptiles]

Well corn king,you know the origional trade for the boa's was the childrens and spotted pythons,which were no where the size they were suppose to be! but i didn't complain after a three hour drive to get them!As for the female snow corn you dropped off at Darren179 for me ,a quarter of an inch of her tail was missing and still scabbed.When i met you in Oshawa, Sheila even asked how it's tail was doing, therefore you did know about it when you dropped it off at Darren's.
When i posted the Boa's i said possible pastels not "pastels".as you claim i did. You said you wanted 200 for the pair and i said i would give you 100 and a corn. Now you want 230 cash so i guess there is no pleasing you Not trying to slam you but just trying to get this s**t cleaned up.
Pastel to me means, "reduced black pigments and cleaner looking boa's.not hypo's. I've been trying to work something out with you for 2 weeks now but it seems impossible.I am not going to pay you anymore then the origional deal of what the 2 pythons were worth. which was 200. To help finish this matter, i will bring you back your own snowcorn and your male corn which i paid you 160 for the pair and i will throw in the other 40 dollars to make it 200 even..If this is not to your liking then there is nothing else i can do.

[corn king 73]

Thanks for your help, i am starting to agree with you guys,but again i was told that they are pastel's. i guess i am just going to find some one that know the difference and see if they can tell me what they are as my camera really sucks and i dont have time to get another one. thanks again.

[Darren179]

I dont think its they size I think its the supply/demand factor Everyone and anyone is breeding bci and ball pythons so its harder to sell when the supply outnumber the demand

[Linds]

Corn King,
I'll eliminate the need for better pics by means of comparison. Here is one of my 'normals'. He is the cleanest normal in my collection. He is a nice normal, but a normal nonetheless... do your snakes have less black than that? How do they look in comparison to the boa Jared posted?

<img src="http://www.ssnakess.com/photopost/data/508/22bci1-2m.jpg">
<img src="http://www.ssnakess.com/photopost/data/508/22bci1-4.jpg">

Jared,
Thanks for posting those articles! Beautiful snake!

[Invictus]

Now, look at the lack of black spotting unerneath the tail saddles in the pic that Jared posted... that is NO DOUBT a pastel. (NOt to mention the pastel pink throughout the whole body! WOW!) Is that yours Jared?

Linds, I love that boa! Certainly a normal, even though there is nothing normal about it. That's an insanely clean pattern.

[bighillreptiles]

Linds what you posted is what i was told was a pastel very nice and cleen thanks paul

[corn king 73]

hi linds my female doesn't have as much black as your bci but my male is darker then your's and has a lot more black then my female.i really don't care.just when i breed them i'm just going to list them as bci's and not pastel bci's lol.thanks for all your help.les

[JonD]

Wow Linds, nice male you have there. I like the one wierd saddle he has too.... Very sweet!!!;)

[JaredAren]

Very nice male Linds. I love his color and contrast.

[corn king 73]

This is Sheila, and Paul please get it right,i never asked about the corns tail. i said and i quote" she was born that way" you had said there was sonething with her tail and i told you she was born that way. dont bring me into this crap,i have nothing to do with it and you are the one that lied to us not the other way around. again dont bring my name into yours and les's deals ,i dont care and i have my own stuff to deal with. have a great day or whatever. oh and Linds nice pic,i think they are a nice looking snake but to big for me.LOL.

[Linds]

Thanks for the kind words everyone! I can't wait to see how he matures, hopefully as nice as his girlfriend did :cool:

[Matt_K]

Originally posted by Linds
Thanks for the kind words everyone! I can't wait to see how he matures, hopefully as nice as his girlfriend did :cool:

Would you PLEASE stop rubbing it in??? >(

[Linds]

Awwww... do you need a tissue Matt? :p:p

[Hara]

My My

I have read every single post of this thread and I must say,,,,,it really throws me off buying from anyone online, at all. Plus, it seems only 4 or 5 people in all the folks that I have talked to even care about a Pastel. Give it a rest. BCI's are all beauiful, I have been handling boas and the rest for 10 years and I think people should stop all the morph S**t and just be happy with what God gave and if something happens in the wild then let it happen.......... be happy that you have, what you have.

Hara

[Hara]

Just had to say one more thing or I will bust.........all the pics I have seen in this tread are beautiful. But one must remember that no two snakes are ever alike, whether in termperment or color. Who wants a pretty snake you cant have fun with. And anyway, I dont know if any of rest of you have noticed over the years but the SNAKE picks YOU, Not you PICKING the SNAKE. Dont let all the scientific crap get in the way of nature. I may sound like a sentimental old fool, but its worked for me for over a decade now.

Hope all of you the best.
Hara