Peach baby food

[shimbathesnake]

As anyone else here ever given thier Leo's Fruit Baby foods?

It's something I have never considered until i read it in a Gecko keeping book. It suggested using it as a monthly treat and a way of given them there Vit's

The one thing I do know now after trying it is that THEY LOVE IT!

I've given them it maybe 6 times in the last 24 months, just a tea spoon full each.

The book said that they would come across fallen fruits in the wild so it is a natural part of their Diet.

My Leos are over 8 years old and all looking good

What are your veiws??

Clem

[silke]

I tried different kinds of bb food and all they did was walk through it and make a huge mess
apricot, strawberry/banana, and ...some others

[shimbathesnake]

mine got spoon fed it, one Gecko tried to eat the Spoon!

[Sean_.E.]

I never knew you could give them baby food. Thats cool!

[Scotty Allen]

What book is it that reccomends fruit baby food for leopard geckos. Have I missed something?

[Linds]

I have never heard of this either. I would be hesitant to use it since their bodies are designed to process protein (meat), not carbs (fruit and veggies). There are many other geckos such as cresties, goldens, skunks, etc that enjoy fruit baby food as part of their diet, combined with insects as well, but their natural diet also includes some fruits and/or nectars, whereas leopards are insectivores/carnivores.

Originally posted by FlatwoundScotty
What book is it that reccomends fruit baby food for leopard geckos. Have I missed something?

I was asking myself the same thing...lol :p

[shimbathesnake]

I'll Find out the name of the Book that said about it. But I do clearly remember reading that Fruit is a natural (IF SMALL) part of their Diet.

I'm not saying that it should be a large part of thier weekly intake.

All it said was from time to time they come across fruit that has fallen and ripened in the wilds.

[Youkai]

I've read in a few publications (I'd have to do some digging to find them!) that leos, being opportunistic feeders, will consume fallen fruit they may come across in the wild. This happens only once in a great while.
I give mine some of the fruit mix I make for my cresteds MAYBE once every 4-6 weeks. They go absolutely insane for it.
Shimbathesnake was not implying it should be a huge part of their diet, or that everyone shout try it. Merely, that they do eat it when given the chance in the wild, and many also will in captivity.

[Scotty Allen]

Originally posted by Youkai

Shimbathesnake was not implying it should be a huge part of their diet, or that everyone shout try it. Merely, that they do eat it when given the chance in the wild, and many also will in captivity.

I don't think anyone thought that any implication was made. I myself am just curious to know the reference. Knowing that leopard geckos are found in rather arid, rocky areas, I don't see them happening upon much fallen fruit. Anything is possible though, He*l, I saw a garter snake eat a grape once.

[Youkai]

Perhaps not, but the way some people reacted it almost seemed like it was deemed a poison to their systems. ;)

I'm going to search, and maybe ask the Gekkota listserve. I may have gotten something off of there from someone before.

[shimbathesnake]

It's ok Youkai, I did ask for views!

Remember not everone is well read, Its easy for me to read these things because I'm lucky enougth to have one of the largest collection of reptile book in the UK in my house.

I look after them for the South Western Herp soceity.

I Do know for a fact that there is a lot of nonsense in some of the books, Methods of hepetoculture is changing all the time. that's why things are living longer and breeding a lot more then they did a few years ago.

I read in a snake book "to feed a snake place a live rodent in it's cage last thing at night. We all now that Cr*p.

another book said ALL SNAKES under 3 feet should be force fed earth worms!

That's why peoples views NOW TODAY are important.

Clem

[silke]

FYI - Scotty Allen has the largest collection of herp books I have ever seen and has actually read them so the comment about "not everyone is well read" certainly does not apply to him.
I recommend you be more careful with your innuendos

[shimbathesnake]

No innuendos intended!

[DragnDrop]

Leos do find fruit in their natural habitat, but not 'fruit' as we think of it - apples and oranges. They find seed pods from succlents as an example (on this side of the pond it would be opuntia and the like). Then there's dates and figs that occur in their natural ranges, along with whatever fruit the humans living there eat. Nectar type fruits, as well as juicy seed pods (like opuntia) are one of the best treats going by the reactions of my leos. Opuntia slices as a treat works wonders to win their vote. Mine even go bonkers over yogurt (live culture). About once every 3-4 weeks I give the adults a yogurt or fruit treat and they love me forever. :)

Young leos are attracted to the maggots in rotting fruit. I use fruit fly maggots for premature or undersized hatchlings, they eat the worms and the fruit.

However, I wouldn't go so far as to imitate the natural diet too much - they are known to eat scorpions - I draw the line there :)

[Linds]

Originally posted by silke
I recommend you be more careful with your innuendos

My sentiments exactly...




I'm sure several people in here found the "not everyone is well read" remark to be somewhat insulting and condescending on one level or another...

I for one, have read alot. When reading you must keep in the back of your mind, however, that that book is one persons opinion. There is alot of BS out there, just because it is in a book is not to say it is the truth. There are still books out there saying iguanas need to eat gravel to digest their food :eek:

Are they opportunistic feeders? Yes. Ive even met someone who routinely fed their leopard gecko apples and grapes. Iguanas are vegetarians but will live (for how long?) on a meat-based diet. Opportunistic feeders in captivity aren't always oportunistic feeders in the wild.

I could be wrong, I haven't spent months tracking the geckos through Pakistan recording their eating habits. But I know there isn't a whole lot of peaches, grapes, and apples to be found natually in their environment :)

I apologize if any of that came across harshly, that was certainly not my intention :)

[shimbathesnake]

Like I said NO nastyness was intended. I asked for views and got them!

[Scotty Allen]

Hey, let's all lighten up folks. I just wanted to know the name of the publication(s). Those that know me and my bibliophobic habits will understand why I want the title. Nothing more / nothing less.

[shimbathesnake]

That's cool

I'll Find it Tomorrow, and let you know

Clem..

[DragnDrop]

The topic of fruit eating leos has been discussed many times on 'the
other' forum. One of the more knowledgeable posters there, Marcia, was
in touch with a DVM about it, and posted his reply to her on the forum.
Since I don't think it's ethical to quote the post here, for our
purposes I'll just quote a couple of snippets and hope I'm not going
overboard pushing my luck.

"According to Dr. Frederic L. Frye, DVM., PhD., MSc., CBiol., FIBiol.,
FSRM., and Professor of Comparative Reptile Veterinary Medicine and
Pathobilology at UC Davis Veterinary School, author of countless books
and probably the most reputable Reptile Scientist in the world,
(whew!)Leopard Geckos are OMNIVOROUS in the wild."


This is a quote from his correspondence to her:


"It should also be noted that under natural (wild) conditions, leopard
geckos consume substantial quantities of fruits, nectar, pollen, grubs,
miscellaneous winged insects, and spiders---not crickets. The most
common native fruits are mandarin, persimmon, fig, pistachio, loquat and
cactus pear that has fallen.

Most any tropical fruit, as well as soft, ripe stone fruits are
acceptable. Also, don't forget that fruit nectar, scraped mango, soft
figs, peach, nectarine, apricot, pear, etc., are all appropriate, or if
necessary, strained baby foods containing these fruits can/should be fed
a couple of times weekly; you can add whatever mineral supplement to
these soft, tasty goodies. Also, they make a splendid vehicle for
supplementing their diet with calcium lactate, calcium gluconate,
calcium carbonate, etc. "


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
If anyone's interested in more details, email me and I'll supply
whatever info I have on the subject.

[Jaylyn]

VERY Interesting!!! Thanks!

Jaylyn

[Linds]

That is very interesting indeed, but I am quite puzzled as to why this is the first I have heard of it? Why is this information not more widely publicized?

[Youkai]

My guess is that it's so different from what is considered 'normal' care for these animals, that people are kind resistant to learning it. I've read a few studies about leopard geckos that were incredibly interesting, but that seemed to fly in the face of their domestic care. Many, many people can keep them alive and healthy. But most people don't bother learning their wild habits becuase they are so easy to look after. Of course, even if someone wanted to find it, that information is unfortunately scarce. :(

[Linds]

What I mean is if this is the way it is, why hasn't it been set straight from the start? Why hasn't this been their base for domestic care? I don't think it's a matter of people being resistant to learning new things if they are very different from what is regularily practiced, so much as this information isn't readily available. I'm sure if people knew this stuff it would be included into good husbandry practices. I mean, I haven't even read anywhere that they are indeed omnivores, which is a very basic fact about an animal............ leaves me quite puzzled.............:confused:

[shimbathesnake]

ISBN 0-7938-2024-3

The Books Called

GECKOS Keeping & breeding them in Captivity.

Jerry G & Maleta M. Walls

piblished by TFM

page 32

" Crickets,Waxworms,Mealworms and other insects, with an occasional pinkie mouse and a weekly cup of honey water mix or fruit baby food"

[Scotty Allen]

*LOL* that explains perfectly well why so few people have heard of the "fruit and honey eating" proclivities of Leopard Geckos. Nuff said.

[Syst3m]

I have to agree with youkai, a portion of the herp community in general is very resistant to new ideas and will activly lash out against them without first researching them. On the other hand another portion of the herp community is very inquisitive about new ideas and willing to research them further.

As far as base care goes, thats all it really is. Basic. Some of use like to take our care for our animals to extremes. Like Linds and her crazy gutload for her mealies! Her efforts to raise quality food shows in her animals.

Perhaps someone should write a care guide for this site that includes some of the newer husbandry techniques for animals that goes past the base care guidlines and reaches into the professional care levels.

We are the number one snake/reptile site. Lets get cutting edge and show these other sites what we are really made of.

[lance]

so i'm still confused(and it's been a good day)is the fruit a good thing or bad thing:confused:

[Syst3m]

Good or bad. According to the base care sheets, there is no actual reference. According to the vet and the books there is possible nutritional value that could be gained.

My Personal opinion, I think it could be a good thing and don't see how it could be a bad thing unless you try to base its diet off that sole food.

[DragnDrop]

Quite a few years ago I read an article written by someone who was herping in the leopard gecko home range. Now I don't recall who it was, since I was just seriously getting into geckos and the 'big names' didn't mean a thing to me at that time. I'd been checking out the reference section at the local library, which means I read so many accounts in a few weeks, that by now I can't even guess at the author. However, I do know I only checked what looked like reliable articles, by people with some degrees in animal related studies or who were working for zoos etc. I figured it would help me find reasonably accurate info, since I hadn't a clue what to believe at that point. This particular article described the environment, flora and fauna of the area. It wasn't strictly a leopard article, but general herping. The author also told of his nighttime forays into the wilds to see what went on then. I'll just list the leopard gecko info I recall since I wrote it down for future reference. He mentioned seeing leopard geckos out in daylight, warming up in the sunshine after a few days of unusually cold weather. He saw them eating scorpions, and other inverts but I only clearly recall the scorpions, since it kind of made me shiver :) To go with our discussion here, he did see them eating fallen fruit which he named, but I didn't recognize the name. It seems the fruit was riddled with maggots. There were a few other things I can't recall right now, but they basically go against the grain of our current leo husbandry and expectations.

If they're strictly nocturnal, by rights they shouldn't have been out during the day. If they're strictly insectivores, what are they doing eating scorpions? Why would maggot filled fruit be worthy of their attention? Each leo knows what he needs - if he's too cold and the sun is shining, it's worth risking exposure to warm up after several days of unseasonable cold. He just has to be more aware of his surroundings and possible dangers, but the risk is worth the benefits. They'll eat scorpions, small lizards and anything else they can overpower, including insects. How many of us are willing to raise feeder scorpions? Feeder lizards? Not many I bet - but we don't mind raising insects, so we switch the leos over to completely insect diets. It works for them, works for us, and everyone's happy.

Since they are predators, we assume they don't eat veggies and fruit, since it doesn't fit the description. We all know leos will eat their substrate - what would that rate as - animal or vegetable? :)
Most animals are primarily one thing or another as far as food goes, but they can and will accept others under the right circumstances. If the fallen fruit just filled with maggots is sitting right there, why risk hunting prey, when a suitable meal is sitting in front of our nose? It's got vitamins, minerals, protein - a complete meal in a neat package. Grab it, eat it, and go back to the den, safe from predation. The fruit will most likely also have a few nutrients that a normal animal based meal might not have, saves having to eat a mouthful of dirt later to get the minerals.

They're not the only animals that will grab a quick meal of something out of the ordinary. Robins returning in spring might have to eat frozen fruits and seeds if a cold snap sends the worms under the frozen ground again. Dogs and cats eat grasses, mints, other plants if allowed access to them. A rabbit won't get upset if he eats a caterpillar that was grazing on the carrot tops he's just eaten - hey, extra protein, change in flavour - nice touch. However, he won't go out deliberately hunting insects, he'll just settle for whatever he can suck in with his veggies.

My leos get pureed fruit treats (the same I offer the Rhacodactylus geckos). They also get yogurt as a treat, particularly breeding females. Once or twice a month won't hurt them one bit, and some even look forward to it - they run over to the dish and clean it out faster than you I can finish off a box of chocolates. :)

[lance]

okay i think i'll try it if no one objects????????????????

[Bryan Self]

I found the book at a local store and read this part. Yes it is talking about Leos. However the author of the book is a biologist not a herpetologist. He has written a wide variety of books on both reptiles and fish. The fact that he said small anounts of fruit is ok. But I will tend to put more creditably in the Leopard Gecko Manual. Which was written by Philippe de Vosjoli, former editor of Vivariam and world renowned herpetologist and Ron Tremper, one of the best know gecko breeder in the world. I am not saying that the information provided by Jerry G. Walls is not good. Just that I trust the other writers more.