Red, White and Blue Rant

[Artemis]

Blah-

After wasting most of nightshift scouring the internet for a US site that is even comprable in terms of coolness to this one, I have given up. There are plenty of US based and focused reptile sites, but they all suck, unless I missed something!

Thing is, in looking for stuff I am interested in, all the links to suppliers and breeders here are in Canada, and the thought of international shipping makes me cringe.

Someday when you admin folks get bored, ya gotta go international and add some US breeders/suppliers that get your vote. Love this site though, really is the best one out there.

Artemis

[Vengeance]

Ralph Davis is a US breeder and his Banner has been on the site for as long as I've been here.

[marisa]

I would hate for more US stuff to be here, although I do see your point. But. For us Canadians this is the ONLY site. For Americans, they have their pick of thousands for supplies, animals and chatting. While US based forums might not be as good as this one, Canadians NEED this to be a mainly Canadian based site, because it's really the only one we have.

The day it goes more US than Canada is the day most of us will have to look for yet another Canadian based forum. Not out of anger or anythng, just because we have too. Canadian market is 100% different than the US market.

Marisa

[Samba]

I don't really understand why the segregation is important... if this site has both US and Canadian advertisers and posters (which I believe it currently does), then what's the big deal? US industries taking over room that could be occupied by Canadian industries?

There really isn't a quality US reptile-based site that I've seen... that's why I keep coming here... all the Canadian-US BS is really irrelevant to me, and frankly, makes me feel a little unwelcomed... but apparently separation is important to others...

[Darren179]

its not the fact that americans are unwelcomed. its that us as canadian have nowhere else to discuss whats going on here as far as expos and snakes and so on. The us has an expo every weekend ours but come only so many times a year. our snake industry is well behind the united states and our prices are way different. I think that alot of users feel if the site becomes dominatly american many will feel like they are being kicked out of there "home site" just my opinion though.

[Vengeance]

Also look at something like Reptiles Magazine. The entire thing is Americian, full of Classifieds, upcoming shows, great articles. I'll bet the reptiles magazine has a forum. But it is 100% Americian, atleast for the last little while I've been reading it I haven't seen a Canadian add in it. So www.ssnakess.com is kinda like the Canadian version of Reptiles Magazine.

[Samba]

Darren, I guess I can understand the 'invaded' feeling... but you are always going to have canadians on this site, and some americans. I have come to this site for exactly 2 years (this month, actually), and I feel it's far superior than other sites, mainly because, for the most part, most of you are intelligent and interested in discussion and debate.

I know that keeping this site 'mostly canadian' isn't trying to discourage americans from joining, but in some way it does make me personally feel a little unwelcomed. I don't understand why too many americans on this site will somehow affect your ability to communicate with other canadians on the site...

[Vengeance]

It would effect it greatly I think. As a community it wouldn't effect communication, but for buying and selling it would. I know that 95% of the people selling things here are Canadian, so if I'm looking at banners, or see someone selling something most times I assume it's Canadian. If a larger American presence became more abbundant, I wouldn't know if something being sold was Canadian or Americian. Also because of the fact that the industry's are so diffrent, the volume of Americian breeders vastly out number the Canadian breeders. So then we get to a point like it is with most other sites, finding a Canadian add with something for sale becomes much more troublesome. The other big problem being that getting herps across the border is a pain so not only does it become harder to find the adds that relate to Canadians, but we have to sift through a ton of other add or sites that are completly usless to us. Now if you do a search on something like Yahoo or goggle for lets use Ball python as an example. You are going to get TONS of sites selling Ball pythons, and I'll bet most of them are Americian. So the Americian breeder has a much greater exposure, so this site gives some exposure to the Canadian breeders.

I fail to see how because this is a Canadian site could make you feel unwelcome? That's like saying that a Canadian on an Americian site should feel unwelcomed. If a site is Americian, then of course the content is Americian, the vendors selling are americian and the people posting are Americian. This is a Canadian site, so the same applies, it doesn't mean that Americians aren't welcome it just means this is a Canadian site.

[daver676]

The day it goes more US than Canada is the day most of us will have to look for yet another Canadian based forum. Not out of anger or anythng, just because we have too. Canadian market is 100% different than the US market.

Not to mention we already live in enough of a shadow of the US as it is.......

[BWSmith]

If you see very little Candian advertising in Reptile Mag, then maybe some of the Canadian Reptile Companies should start advertising in it. I have seen big ads for companies all over the world in it.

[Vengeance]

If they should or shouldn't advertise in that magazine is neither here nor there. I think I can safely assume that a large portion of the user base reading reptile magazine is Americian. The Magazine is published out of the US, it is an Americian magazine and as such I don't go looking in an Americian magazine for Canadian content. If I'm looking for Canadian content, then I'll look for a Canadian magazine.

[BWSmith]

A large base of the mag may be american, but it is distributed all over the world. i am sure that more than a few members here read it. If there is large Canadian reader base, then there is no reason not to advertise in it.

[Vengeance]

Ok, so with that point back to the original post. This is a Canadian site, with a large Canadian base, and a vast majority of Canadian vendors. But there are Americian readers on this site, so then mabye just as Canadians should be paying to put more adds in Reptile Magazine, Americians should be paying into this site to get their information posted.

[Invictus]

I completely envy the American herp market. I tell ya, I read the kingsnake classifieds, and I just turn GREEN with envy because of all of the cool stuff down there that can be shipped in a freakin' UPS van for $40! Not to mention the mostly unrestricted laws down there.

I understand your point though, Samba. If I went on a forum that was as cool as this one, and they said "We want to keep it mostly American", I'd feel a little like the fifth wheel myself. But, if it was not only the coolest one, but the ONLY message board that America had, I would totally understand its necessity too. I don't think we're trying to keep the board mostly Canadian as far as members go, but for advertising/selling, I think it's at least fairly important.

[Shad0w]

Oh im with Marisa on this... The day this site goes more US than Canadian is the day ill start up my own Canadian forum

[Samba]

I agree with you, BW. Reptiles (Magazine) may be produced in America, but it is for herp lovers everywhere, and there are advertisers from all walks of life in that magazine. I, too, have been disappointed in finding the location of an advertiser a bit far from home after inquiring about animals they have for sale. It has never stood in the way of getting anything I wanted badly enough.

Vengeance, Daver676 and his quote from Marisa, I believe, (correct me if I'm wrong) answer your question. I try not to take this situation personally, but the more I am here, and the more other americans are here, the more canadians will be driven from this site, and I'm not supposed to feel a little ackward in reading that?

I do understand your point that sifting through a larger volume of ads to find canadian breeders and sellers may be 'troublesome' but that's life. I think the advertising forums here are very well segregated between americans and canadians...so that shouldn't even be an issue at all.

[Brent Strande]

I always thought that this was an internet site, where there really are no borders...

also, the majority of this sites purpose (IMHO) is to educate people on herps, so the content really shouldn't be classified by national borders, but by species.

Complaining about too many Americans joining a Canadian site is like complaining that too many fish, or spider lovers are joining a snake site (That's what the name says right? ssnakess? Must be a site for snakes only!)

I see what Samba is talking about, feeling unwelcome sometimes. It has never been directly though, as this site has the greatest members of any I've been to and TONS of invaluable resources too! What I find offensive are the blanket statements.

Anywho, this could go on forever I believe. I hope that it doesn't ever turn into an actual problem. So far I don't think that it has, but only time will tell...

[Vengeance]

I think the reason people would move away from the site if it became mostly Americian is not because of the Americian people, but because it wouldn't have what they are looking for anymore. You have to stop thinking about it in Americian and Canadian posters. Information is Information, if it comes from Canada, US, Egypt or Iraq, if I'm looking for an answer to a question I don't care where the answer comes from and I'm sure most people feel that way. But when it comes to finding Canadian vendors, and Canadian Clasifieds, this is really the only place we have to turn. So if it got to a point where searching through the form and site sponsers turned up to be mostly Americian, I think Canadian readers would be more inclinded to search out a site with a Canadian feel, hence why there are allot of Canadians on this site.

But like I said, this isn't against the Americian posters or the information being offered, it is mainly about the Canadian vendors. If it became harder to find a Canadian vendor on this site then an Americian, I also would be inclined to find a diffrent site. Not because I didn't want to participate in an Americian site, but because they don't have relevent vendors and postings for me as a Canadian.

[Samba]

Approximately 90% of this site's purpose (as I see it) is discussion-related. So, we have EVERYONE talking about EVERYTHING and Canadians will think it's harder to find vendors on this site because of the American advertisers, which are separated into different forums altogether... If an American ad accidentally gets in the Canadian ads forums, I'm pretty sure the moderators will move it to where it needs to go... I'm REALLY not understanding what the problem is... =(

Brent - I think your opening statement was very well-said. That's how I feel as well... =)

[Vengeance]

I'm not talking about just the Clasified section. If you go to the main page, there is a box half way down with "Site Supporters" If you go through that list 95% of them are Canadian. The banners that get Advertised all the time, again mostly Canadian. I have no problems what so ever when it comes to the sharing of information. Like I said information is information, and good information coming from anywhere is allways a welcome value to any site, be it an Americian site or a Canadian site. But if a time comes when the list of site supporters are mostly Americian sites, and the banners are of mostly americian sites, then it's time for me to find a Canadian alternative. Not because of the Americians, or not because most of the people on the site are Americian, but because those vendors and those advertisments are not related to me. I can't allways order from an Americian vendor because they can't ship across the border, the prices are in USD as opposed to CAD. This site really helps fuel the Canadian herp community, and if it came to a point were as an example the PCPC Reptile Expo had to try and compete with the 20 other Americian Reptile Expo's that happen around the same time frame, as a Canadian, it would becoming much harder for me to see that advertisment for PCPC as opposed to seeing all those other Advertisers.

Like I said, this isn't a knock against the Americian poster or the information the contribute. I can't speak for everyone but contributing the the information that flows through this site is allways appriciated and that goes for both sides of the border. But with this being the one refuge where the Canadian herp industry really has a chance to help the Canadian herp community grow, it would be much harder if they had to compete with the Americian industry on the same site.

Just as an example, www kingsnake .com has a www kingsnake .ca address as well that has nothing but Canadian vendors on it. Why? Because when a Canadian is looking for a vendor it is much harder to have to sift through all of the stuff avilable in the Americian Herp market because our Canadian one is so small in comparision.

[dave68]

Hey Samba, and the rest of the American members and visitors. Please don't feel unwelcome here because of a few people that don't seem to understand that there is no threat to our market regardless of how different it is to the US market. If these people can't find Canadian breeders and suppliers here then they are not looking very hard. Everything is kept seperate so it is easier to find what you are looking for in the country you are looking. As for the Reptiles magazine's content, I've been an avid reader and subscriber for more than ten years, the advertising content is mostly American but I have seen Canadian ads in it occasionally. I myself read it for the informative articles and to see whats new on the herp horizon. Anyways just had to add my two cents worth! Here's to no borders and the free proliferation of reptile information.

Dave

[Brent Strande]

Instead of bitc#ing then about Americans joining the site so that it grows and expands (allowing more valuable resources and information as well) why not push for National forums? Have the list separated by county. Perhaps even an European grouping as more and more Europeans are joining this site! What I am saying is that most businesses (yes this site is a business) would WANT to grow in order to stay afloat.

With all that is said, I don't know that I would like the idea of the site being sold and having someone else run it either though... ther reason that I go to this site is for the way that it is run!

Perhaps the fear is due to the slight changes that have been occurring on this site, such as the buttons on top and such. That I completely understand, as I am NOT a fan of most, if not all, of the sites that those links take me to.

Sorry, rambling again. My whole point is, let the site grow! It can only help it. Rather than stunting the growth of something great, let's see what we can do to allow it to evolve while still keeping the feel that it gives to ALL of its members. Are we *non-Canadian* members of less importance?

I stand my ground on this being a GLOBAL community.

[rwg]

The more people who participate, and the more regions they represent, the better the discussion aspect of this forum will be. BUT, if all the ads on the front page are for American businesses, and if the Canadian classified ads dwindled in quantity, then I'd have to spend more time elsewhere because doing business across the border is difficult.

[Brent Strande]

Rereading that it doesn't sound quite right. I don't mean national forums for everything, just advertisements, banners, and classifieds, etc...

And then ONE GREAT BIG SITE to share and exchange information with people across the globe!

[Samba]

Who gets to put their banner on this site is the decision of the owner. If he puts up more American vendors than Canadians I'm sure he knows he'll lose members, which is a shame. This site has a lot more to offer than just vendors.

Like the whole 'buttons' issue, he needs to keep money flowing to support this site, and I'm sure he'll do whatever it takes. (Although, I've read recently that it has been difficult for one individual to reach him in regards to support).

[Brent Strande]

Would it be possible to sign in, and have your preferences allow for a choice:

-Canadian
-American
-European
-Global (random)

Where the home page could display banners from the selected region?

ie If I login and set my preferences to american, the banners and such would show from American supporters, but the forums and such in the center of the screen are the same? And then if I log off and my canadian friend logs into their account, with a preference set to Canadian, the banners and such would display the Canadian supporters?

This sounds simple to me, but I have NO web design knowledge or much even dealing with computers. But I imagine it could be sort of like the display... silver, green or blue. and the time

[Jeff_Favelle]

I'd avertise in Reptiles magazine if it didn't suck. I haven't seen a good issue since the interviews with the "goanna man" like 5 years ago.

[treegirl]

This site should be for herp lovers all around the globe to UNITE! A place to learn, listen, share ideas etc, etc. Segregation in ANY form sucks.

[Samba]

:::claps::: You GO! Girl!!! LOL I totally agree! =)

[Vengeance]

Brent

Who's bitc#ing!? Are you not reading what I'm saying? I've said more then once now, actually I think this is the third time, it doesn't matter where the information is coming from our who is contributing to discussion, that is not the point I'm trying to get across here. The Vendors and the Advertisers are prodomitly Canadian. I know that if I'm looking for a Gecko in Canada, where can I come www.ssnakess.com. If I'm looking for a Arachnid is Canada, where can I go www.ssnakess.com. If I need some feeder supplies for my herps in Canada, can you take a guess what I'm going to say? I can find it here! If www.ssnakess.com ever got to a point where when I was looking for a new snake it wasn't the first site that poped in my head for Canadian vendors. I would go somewhere else, Why? Because I don't feel like having to go through a bunch of diffrent web sites that I'm not sure if they are Canadian or US to find out that they are indeed Americian so I can't order from them. Now why can't I order from them, problems with getting live animals across the border, time it takes to make it through customs, brokrage fee's, taxes, etc, etc, etc! Not because your Americian, because it's a pain in the a$$.

Not once did I ever say I would leave because of the Americians, or Americians shouldn't post here, or Americinas shouldn't advertise here. I never once said that, what I've said and man do I hate repeating myself, if it got to a point where I was unable to find a majority of Canadian vendors, I would find a site that has a majority of Canadian vendors. Why? Because I'm Canadian, and I can't deal with the US because of the reasons listed above. So please get off this whole I'm bashing Americia because you'd leave the site if it was prodomitly Americian because that isn't what I've said at all.

[Brent Strande]

Vengeance, wasn't directed at you... or anyone in particular. I've just noticed that it is often implied on this site. I did hear you, so sorry to have offended. I just don't see how it would be too difficult as the site seems to have American and Canadian pretty well separated in the sales, etc... area.

Truce? ;)

[Vengeance]

I never said segregation of the forms was something that was a good idea. I am all for anyone and everyone contributing to the sharing of information. Nothing would be better then if everyone shared all the information they had on these forms.

But when it comes to the Canadian Herp Community and the growth of Herp Sales in Canada, how would the Canadian herp community benefit from having to try and compete on the only site avilable right now that is for the Canadian herper with the huge industry that is the Americian herp industry. Were not talking about the sharing of information, or the postings in the Classifieds, were talking about the driving force that is behind this website is Canadian, if you take this site away from the Canadian herp industry, what does it have left?

[Vengeance]

Brent

I figured it was directed at me since I've been the one mostly posting :D

[Samba]

Before this site there was a Canadian Herp Community. It may not have been large, and it may not have been well-known, but it was there. It will always be there, regardless of what happens to this site. I understand Canadians want the ease of shopping online from Canadian breeders.

It seems as if these canadian breeders are quite rare and difficult to locate, and therefore, in high demand. If it's such a pain to get anything from America why would american advertising even be considered a threat to the canadian herp community?

I'm sure the canadian breeders know how exclusive their products are, and aren't going to pull their ads from this site because it generates a lot of clientele for them.

[Brent Strande]

Understandable, but that wasn't what I intended to do, and perhaps bitching wasn't the best word to use

[Vengeance]

It really depends, now were talking about Buisness. Canadian vendors I assume advertise here because of the large Canadian base. They get the best value because the site has the target audiance they are looking for, that audiance being Canadians because just as it is difficult for the Canadian to order from the US, so is true for the Americian ordering from Canada. Now if the demographic of the site changed from a prodomitly Canadian site to a higer mix of Americians, the assumption would be these vendors would then go looking for another site that better met their Demographic. Americian vendors trying to sell to Canadians, and Canadians trying to sell to Americians isn't going to work out well in the long run because of all the hassle involved. So as more and more the site became Amirican, one can only assmue that the vendor base on the site would change as well. A larger base of Americians means great exposure for the Americian community which in turn means more Amirician vendors advertising and in turn less Canadian vendors because of the demographic change.

Now this is all based on allot of assumptions. But if you look at the Americian herp buisness community and the Americian Herp Community base population, you can see that it would greatly out weigh that of the Canadian community. So as the site gained more popularity as an Americian site, so too would the Americian base grow, and as such the vendor growth would follow eventually crushing the Canadian presence on the site.

Again this is all based on allot of assumptions, I'm assuming that as the Americian user base follows over here and the site gains popularity in the US then so too will the Vendors follow because the site would then meet their Demographic. As it stands right now an Americian vendor Advertising on this site will not get as great a value as advertising on an Americian herp site.

But again all of this is speculation based on buisness trends.

[Samba]

Vengeance - you make some good points... but I honestly don't think this site is going to become so over-run with americans and american vendors that canadian breeders and suppliers will stop advertising here. The only reason to stop would be if canadians left the site, as others mentioned before. It's a Cause and Effect situation...

If there are 'too many' americans here the canadians will leave because it will somehow become more of a hassle for them to get to canadian vendors... and canadian vendors will no longer advertise here because the canadian consumers have left because there were too many americans advertising to other americans here.

I really don't see how this senario could evolve to the point that canadians fear (loss of ability to buy from canadian businesses). I think this site will stay canadian-prodominant.

If the owner of this site decides to lease a space for an american vendor, so be it; it's 1.) his desicion, and 2.) generates clientele for american businesses, which will keep paying to advertise, which will support this great canadian herp site which means you all will still have a place to come and gripe about all the americans here. LOL Only kidding! =)

[rwg]

I could easily see it going that way for one reason...market size. Take front page ads for example. The US is 10 times the size of Canada. The herp industry there is way more mature than it is here, so let's just estimate that there are 20 times more breeders and vendors in the US than in Canada. If the site gave every business equal access to front page advertising, then only 5% of the ads will be for Canadian businesses unless American businesses for some reason voluntarily refrained from buying advertising space. If I cant tell which ads are for Canadian businesses, I probably wont bother clicking any of them becasue 19/20 are no good to me. It's not that I have anything against buying American...I dont. It's buying across the border I cant deal with. Currency exchange, brokerage fees, shipping charges etc.

If Canadians stop clicking, Canadian businesses will stop advertising. Why pay money to advertise to a market that isn't bothering with your ads?

The discussions benefit greatly from an international perspective, but even there, if the PCPC show discussions were burried in a sea of American show discussions, I think it would lessen the appeal of the site for me. I like the fact that I could possibly meet a significant percentage of the posters in Mississauga in November. :)

[marisa]

Before ssnakess.com was here there was NO canadian herp place to talk that was even remotly active. Sure there were forums here and there with canadian sections, even maybe a couple dedicated. But the FACT is there was NOTHING like this website for Canadians before ssnakess.com came along. Nothing.

I love Americans being here. I AM American. So anyone who thinks this is about that, is simply wrong. More people mean more discussion and that's great for everyone.

But the other side is, that canadians most certaintly DO need a place, not a section, not a small area, a CANADIAN place to sell and buy herps. I highly agree with RWG post. Once most of the advertising is USA, then Canandians stop bothering to sift and search through it all. It happened on queensnake and it has happened on other forums, which is why most of us from Canada stay here.

Again, it has NOTHING to do with not liking or liking Americans. Not at all.

Marisa

[Vengeance]

I agree, but I also think that my Scenario is very possible. At the end of the day it really all comes down to money. If the owner of the site isn't making enough money from Canadian revenue, then ofcourse he is going to cross the border to find more money. So yea end of the day everything is based on what the owner of this site wants. But as an example, lets use the repti bid buttons. Now repti bid in and of itself isn't the greatest of sites. There still is allot if growing that needs to be done on that site before most people will think of it as a legitimate place to do buisness. Now if Repti bid does get to that point, Repti bid is a Americian site, as a Canadian, the site is usless to me, cool to look at what's selling for what, but I can't buy anything. So assuming repti bid becomes reputable, more Americians will be purchasing, and as a result because of the cross advertising they will be more of them posting here. Now as word spreads around, Americian vendors are going to see that the majority of posters here has taken a turn and Americians have a greater presence, and as such will begin advertising. So then we get to my propsed sceneario.

Now at that point there is a choice to be made. You can do the same think www kingsnake .com and create a .ca and .com address. I'm pretty sure that when you enter the reptiles forums from either .com or .ca they go to the same place. But the .ca offers a strickly Canadian side of vendors for Canadians, and the .com offers a strickly Americian side of Vendors for the Americians. Now to me that is the best case scenario, from a community stand point and a buisness stand point as the owner of the site. That way the Canadian side of buisness still stays seperate from that of the US. The Canadian vendors still get the Canadain exposure that they need to grow and then they don't have to compete for advertising space with the much larger number of Americian vendors. But the website community as a whole strenghtens because all are still able to communicate freely and offer up a wealth of information in the forms.

But that is a best case scenario.

[Samba]

RWG, I see what you are saying, but it comes back down to the owner of this site. It's not about american vendors 'refraining' from buying space, it's about who the owner of this site deems appropriate to advertise, and there's no way you could argue with him. Fact is, it's HIS site and he'll lease space to whomever he wants... the best he could do is take note of our opinions and accomodate them, but he's not obligated to.

Call me stupid, but I really don't see a competition here, americans sell to americans, canadians sell to canadians... and if someone has something really nice, we could play nice and go through a bit of hassle to get what we want.

[JonD]

One point is missed here. As a business, there is only one good reason to advertise....... to get customers/sales (no brainer). To be really effective, you advertise where your message will reach the largest target market. Right now, it is probably not cost effective for alot of American breeders to advertise here since there isn't a large target market at this point. Though the numbers are increasing. Canadian breeders won't get pushed out of this web site because this is where thier target market is in greatest numbers. The same reasons we don't really see any European ads, the amount of European traffic here is minimal. It just isn't cost effective!!

Increased traffic means increased knowledge base...I welcome the increase, no matter the physical location...;)

[latazyo]

there is no reason for businesses from the USA to advertise as there are not enough users from the USA to advertise too

not to mention since you pointed it out so clearly that there are eleventy billion herp sites in the USA and we choose to use this one exclusively...it should be thought of as a compliment to the management and users and community on this board, not as a frickin threat

[Youkai]

When is that last time some of you took a good look at the classifieds? <i><b>Has anyone even noticed that there are different places for American and Canadian classified adds?

Worrying about 'sifting through' stuff is moot. </i></b>

Segregating the whole site into 'Canadian' and 'other' would be a foolish thing to do.

I think what some people are worried about is that since this place started, it's been a Canadian based site geared towards Canadians. And they'd hate to lose that.

Everyone is welcome, there's no mistaking that.

[Vengeance]

Originally posted by Youkai
When is that last time some of you took a good look at the classifieds? <i><b>Has anyone even noticed that there are different places for American and Canadian classified adds?

Worrying about 'sifting through' stuff is moot. </i></b>



As mentioned the Classifieds don't really apply, were talking about banner advertisments and site supporter sites. Classifieds are already segmented so that is why it was mute point to begin with.

[Tim and Julie B]

I love some of the Americans on the site. I hope they will continue to post. Knowledge is knowledge. I am 100% pro Canadian. But I would never tell someone I didn't want to listen to what they have to say based on where they are from. That is not a very modern way of thinking. The internet allows us to become that "global village" that our high school teachers kept yammering about. Having said that I would hate to see an over abundance of American adds (not American people) just for the simple fact of where the heck else are we going to go to get our stuff. If it wasn't for this site though I would never have met a lot of cool people from around the world, the US as well as Canada. Heck I have met people from my own area on here that I never knew existed. So please don't take it personally we still love you guys :D , it's just that this is all we have at the moment. We are still playing catch up with the remarkable industry in the US.

How about the vendors classifieds couldn't US companies advertise there? As well as the American events and shows section? Or is the main argument about the banner adds? Because I don't see why on the main page there couldn't be a separate links box for American companies? TB

[Brent Strande]

Exactly Tim! I don't think that it would be too hard to keep some sort of separation. Either way, it doesn't seem to be much of a threat as there really aren't many American ads on the site...

[Artemis]

Whoa holy crap my post ran wild without me. Let ME clarify. I think its freaking great this is a Canadian site. I have no problems with that. I guess I was just being wistful reading everyones posts about what they picked up from so and so, and what just hatched out of so and so's incubators. Being American on this site, I can exactly go to the banner ads (which was what I was reffering too) and shop for myself. But that doesnt mean I have a PROBLEM with this site being mostly Canadian. What I have a problem with is how much similar American sites SUCK compared to this one. So you Canadians keep up the good work, eh.

And no, I wasnt even thinking about segregation and all that. This is a Canadian site and that rocks. I dont feel like im not appreciated or supported or important just because Im American. I totally respect that this is a place where people from Canada can hook up in the hobby.

It just sucks not being able to buy from the same breeders and suppliers you always hear everyone talking about, ya know. BUT- Its definitely nothing against this site, heck I love this place, and I totally understand its goals at staying Canadian aimed.

Cool discussion though, guys!

;) Artemis

[hhw]

Originally posted by Vengeance
Just as an example, www kingsnake .com has a www kingsnake .ca address as well that has nothing but Canadian vendors on it. Why? Because when a Canadian is looking for a vendor it is much harder to have to sift through all of the stuff avilable in the Americian Herp market because our Canadian one is so small in comparision.

Sadly, quite a few of the vendors listed on the .ca address are American. I find it annoying as hell to have to do some detective work on a site to see if I can actually buy from it, when it's clearly listed as a Canadian vendor.

If anyone remembers my first post here a couple of months ago, it was a vent on how it was impossible to find people's address. I realize now that a lot of people operate out of their own homes, and don't list their addresses to maintain their privacy. I still maintain that it's important to list at least the city where you are though, as well as the phone number. I have a pretty good idea where everyone is located now, but that's after having spent months reading this site on a daily basis. A newcomer would not be privy to this knowledge however, and for that person listing a city can make all the difference.

Back on topic however, for me, I think it's important for this site to remain predominantly Canadian because the market is so small here. The American herp community is large enough that it can afford to be fragmented; the same can not be said about us. As much as I'd like to do every deal in person and not fork over the cash until I see the animal and can take it home with me, that's quite impossible for many of the species and/or morphs I am interested in. This site is very important for me to determine who is safe for me to deal with. BOI boards help, but a large part of the Canadian market is made up of people who breed on a very small scale. The only way for me to determine whether or not I should deal with one of these persons is to evaluate how they conduct themselves, the knowledge they demonstrate, and their experiences in the hobby. And even for the bigger breeders out there, I don't think I'd have any idea who they were if it wasn't for this site.

So, although I very much welcome any information from south of the border, I am much more interested in hearing about personal experiences from my fellow Canucks. Now, hearing more about the personal experiences of Americans doesn't necessarily mean there will be less to hear about from my fellow Canadians, but there will ultimately be some dilution that would reduce the utility of this site.

Anyway, I don't feel that there is any risk of that happening anytime soon, but it is nevertheless a concern that will be at the back of my mind. I'm happy to have the American members that we have now, and I think there's room for many more... just not so many more that the site loses the Canadian aspect of it.

[Rhonda]

Ok, here's my 2 cents worth! I see nothing wrong with sharing this site with our American neighbors! It would be beneficial because the cost to keep this site open is high. So the more breeders and companies who pay to advertise here the better! Just think of the endless available info there would be about different species and how to care for them! This could be your one stop reptile site that has it all!