Worming Question....

[JimmyRenex]

Hey Guys...

This question has probably been asked and answered many times but here goes.....
I have seen ads regarding monitors stating that they were wormed 2 or 3 times before they are sold. Is worming just a one time thing or is it necesary to deworm them once in a while. (eg. yearly) ??
And also, would you just go to your local vet to buy wormer? I have never used it with any of my herps. (never needed to, I am very attentive and try my best to give them the best of care)

Thanks

[Jeff_Favelle]

Or you could buy captive-bred and not have to bothet with worming...........

[Kimo]

i was told by my vet that regardless of wether or not it is captive bred or not, you should deworm your herps atleast once a year, espeacially if your gonna be feeding your monitor crickets, as most contain pinworms, and you cant know everything that goes on inside your feeders ie.mice, crickets etc always best to err on the side of caution! all my snakes get dewormed once a year.
"Better Safe Than Sorry" as the saying goes, besides won't hurt your herps if you do!

Josh

[JimmyRenex]

Thanks for the reply guys.....

Jeff- I always buy captive bred when the option is available. I have a water monitor which is wild caught as the price would much much higher if it were CB (if u could find one at all!).

Is there a general wormer that works for most parasites? I have horses, and we just use a standard wormer that takes care of pretty much most of the parasites. Is it the same for reptiles? And where would I buy some?


Thanks Again

[Kimo]

What i use for my snakes is Panacur, but you have to be careful with the dosage, as it's different for each snake, for example for my Emerald Tree Boa, whom is 450gm currently, she gets 1/2 cc/kg so she gets .25 cc once every 2 weeks for 3 feedings, consult your herp vet, for exact dosage per herp, and have their weights written down, will make things go easier for you!

Josh

[kap10cavy]

From my understanding, I could be wrong, it happened once before. Worms and pararsites are species specific. Unless your vet knows exactly what type worms or parasites your animal has the meds can be just as harmful or worse for your animal.
I have come to the conclusion that with the proper husbandry your animals immune system will take care of itself.
Just my 2 cents and something to think about.

Scott

[bear24]

There are also worms we are not sure of thier use in the gastro intestinal tract some may help with food digestion or in some way symbiotic. Mostly seen in WC I guess.

[treevaranus]

Hi everyone..

When I first started keeping tree monitors, I'd administer deworming medicines, thinking that I was doing the right thing...In all the animals that I've acclimated with worming, I have not lost a single animal...

However, I did some researching, and both of these medicines, Metronidazol(Flagyl), and Fendbendazol(panacur), were developed for use with mammals.... While it apparently does work with reptiles(in most cases), nobody has done conclusive studies, as to the future complications and secondary side effects these drugs may have.. Take a look at the complex of drugs, which contain Enrofloxacin(Baytril). This medicine is commonly used with mammals all the time. However, there has been findings, that this drug, as well as similar drugs, have harmful side effects to the livers and kidneys of reptiles treated with it..

The truth is, who knows what these medicines are doing to our animals, despite them alieviatinga parasite load... it could be damaging the reproductive organs of the animal, or other lasting effects, that we'll never know about, unless studies are done..

I have since stopped 'worming' my animals with flagyls and panacurs, and have taken bits and pieces of other peoples thoughts, to combine into my practices... I simply give the animal in question, the proper conditions needed to live healthily... ie. humidity, cleanliness, and most important of all, proper temps... In my experience, it appears that when an animal has proper basking temperatures, the parasite load is eliminated(from the intense basking temps). With one of my most recent acclimatees...a female V. boehmei, initial fecal floats indicated a strongyle infection... Now 5 months later, after having her in a quarantine enclosure, closely looked after, she is looking great, and no longer has the parasite load she came in with...

I am trying similar protocols with some imported V. beccari right now, whom I should have equal success with.

So, basically, in my opinion, these drugs should be used as a last resort, as we don' t know what they are actually doing to our animals... Plus, an untrained reptile vet, can easily administer the incorrect dosage, which can very easily prove fatal...I think, with the proper husbandry, the animal will come around and make a total recovery in most cases, depending on how "late" you recieve them..

Take care everybody,

Bob

[Kimo]

now thats intresting Bob...thanks for that info, im gonna have to consult my vet about this, and see what he says....very intresting indeed...

Josh

[treevaranus]

Here's a thought...

Maybe one of the reasons why there aren't many successful captive breedings/hatchings in captivity, is because of animals becoming sterile/unable to produce healthy offspring, due to the worming agents that are almost always administered, upon arriving here.... Like I said, we have no idea as to what kind of complications they might be causing, I mean, look at all the drugs out on the market for humans, that have been recalled later on, after it has been found that they may cause cancer, or other detrimental side effects....

Just a thought.....

cheers,

bob

[beanersmysav]

you cant know everything that goes on inside your feeders ie.mice

This problem shouldnt exist with frozen mice should it? I haven't had any worming problems with any of my animals but i was just wondering if theres a chance of frozens still being contaminated. You'd think the problem would be frozen away but I dont know too much about feeders.

[Linds]

Originally posted by Kimo
"Better Safe Than Sorry" as the saying goes, besides won't hurt your herps if you do!


I used to shotgun treat all new snakes, but I've since discontinued this practice. Most of the commonly encountered parasites are species-specific, and will not stake claim on the animal eating them, but rather pass through. As for worming not doing anything negative, I must disagree. It IS poison afterall, it will kill parasites, but not without cleaning out a lot of the necessary organisms within the animal, as well as affecting the liver and kidney function as well. Now I only worm an animal if it actually needs to be wormed.

Now I am no monitor expert, however from everything I've read on these forums, more often than not worming them results in more problems. I know this has been the case with the monitors at my old job that were wormed. I know leopard geckos also do not typically respond that well to fenbendazole (panacur, safe-guard), so perhaps it's something to do with lizards in general. Hopefully the experienced monitor guys will speak up and confirm/clarify this.

beanersmysav,
Most parasites are killed off in the freezer, however the pinworms that mice are affected by, are not the same type that are capable of infesting snakes. While freezing rodents may kill most parasites, bacteria is preserved.



Edit: I ran a quick search and came across this thread, which has several good opinions on worming -> http://www.ssnakess.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=34265 , http://www.ssnakess.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=10976

[Kimo]

Thnx for the clarification Linds...i honestly didn't know that about de-wormers, will take this into consideration with new herps i obtain.

Cheers

Josh