what kind of snake?

[cole]

Today I was outside cleaning up my yard, and in my little sister's sandbox i found a small maybe 10inch snake that was a dark brown with a diamond pattern on its back. When it saw me it went into that S position with the 1st 6 inches of its body off the ground and then the tail was pointed straight back flicking back and forth really fast. At first i thought it was a garder snake but i see them all the time and they never curl up like that, they always just try to run away and hide. But this one stood its ground and started snapping at my boots. Anyone know what kind of snake this could be?

[Simon]

I am not really good with identifying snakes in the States
but with diamonds at the back that kind of sounds like an eastern diamond back...
did it have a rattler at the end of the tail like most rattle snakes do?

[Vanan]

Given the position it was in, I'd say some kinda NA crotalid but some Nerodia do a good mimicry of them too.

[RainToad]

Sounds like a harmless Grass Snake. You should simply grab it and then let your little sister play with it. Most snakes are harmless, and a child should learn about them first hand.

[snakehunter]

Sounds like a juvi black snake or pine. Dont touch it till you get a positive ID. I pic would help. but sounds like your past that.

[cole]

It didnt have a rattle so i knew it wasnt a rattle snake, it had a long slender tail. normally i would have just forgotten about it but ive never seen a non venomous snake act like that. ive seen tons of rattle snakes and copperheads around my house and they all go into that position. If i see it again ill take a pic of it. Since i didnt think it was a rattlesnake or a copperhead i nudged it into a little bucket and put it back in the woods.

[Vanan]

Originally posted by RainToad
Sounds like a harmless Grass Snake. You should simply grab it and then let your little sister play with it. Most snakes are harmless, and a child should learn about them first hand.

That's a pretty stupid thing to say! First up, what the heck is a Grass Snake? The only Grass Snake I now of isn't even on this continent! Secondly, you're risking a kid's life when you don't even know what kinda snake it is. Just cos ~70% of the snake species are harmless doesn't mean you're chances of encountering one is NIL! Please do your own research first before giving potentially harming advice. *shakes head*

[Vanan]

Are you within the range of cottonmouths aka water moccasin?

[thunder]

a water moccasin wouldn't behave in that way, their threat display is fairly distinctinctive. if you are sure it was not a rattler, as vanan says, it was probably some species of nerodia (water snake) mimicing rattler behavior.

[Ella]

hi

[Matt_K]

uhhh.... hey..

[CamHanna]

I don't think I can really say what it would be. Juvie black rat snake comes to mind but that would be a rather small one. A juvie northern black racer would also be a possibility. Both have a blotchy pattern as young. Snake hunter mentioned the 'Northern pine snake', that may be a possibility (though they may not live in your area). Pine snakes are known for hissing a lot. It could be a northern watersnake as well; I think we may need a better description.

There are no eastern diamondbacks or cottonmouths in New York. The only harmful species are the eastern massasauga (sp?), timber rattler and northern copperhead. Rattlesnakes don't always have a rattle, it can be broken off. They are born with a 'button', which is essentially a very small rattle and can be overlooked. In either case the tail should appear blunt.

The grass snake (Natrix natrix) is native to Europe. The smooth green snake, a North American native, is sometimes called the green grass snake but this doesn't sound like one. I would agree with Vavan very much, if you're not sure what it is don't pick it up. It's a very good idea to familiarize yourself with the venomous snakes in your area.

A google search, "Snakes of New York", will yield several sites about the snakes of New York. You may need to look harder for pics of juvie black rat snakes and black racers; they are very different than the adults.

Let us know what you find.

Cam

[RainToad]

That's a pretty stupid thing to say! First up, what the heck is a Grass Snake? The only Grass Snake I now of isn't even on this continent! Secondly, you're risking a kid's life when you don't even know what kinda snake it is. Just cos ~70% of the snake species are harmless doesn't mean you're chances of encountering one is NIL! Please do your own research first before giving potentially harming advice. *shakes head*

******************

99% are harmless --- see below, and if you don’t believe me... Write to this website to argue it.

Quote:
: Young Bucks Outdoors ::
About 99 percent of the snakes in this country are harmless to humans. Snakes don't deserve their bad reputation;
www.youngbucks.com/QuizWiz/QW5.28_6.1.html

[Simon]

Originally posted by RainToad
[B]
99% are harmless --- see below, and if you don’t believe me... Write to this website to argue it.


I don't usually argue with people, but this is different. You don't just pick up an animal that you have no clue about. It is still a risk, its a life!! Even if 99% of the country's (and Vanan was talking about 70% of the snakes in the world not the country) snake is harmless, there is still a 1% chance that the person does actually walk into a venomous snake.

If you just pick it up, the person just might get bit and die because of your advice. You just don't pick up any animals that you don't know! Plus you don't give any advice to people that "Oh 99% are harmless, just pick it up" that's not the best advice. Even if you're held responsible for the cause of the person's death, there is absolutely nothing that you can do to bring back the person's life.

[njsnakeman]

Yes Simon is right, course it could be a venomous snake and it isnt worth it just picking up any snake or any wild animal at all without knowing what it is? And if it is venomous that's a child's life and there is no arguing about that.

[Jeff Hathaway]

Thanks for the thorough post, Cam. As for the 99% stat, I don't think I'd take the word of 'YoungBucks' website for the absolute truth. I won't waste anytime arguing it, either, as NO ONE has the data to say what the ratio of abundance of venomous to non-venomous snakes would be beyond a guess. Most species haven't even had population studies done, except the rarest which obviously would account for almost nothing of the total (since they're rare!). However, undoubtably most snakes are harmless, especially in New York state. Copperheads, Eastern Massasaugas, and Timber Rattlesnakes are the only venomous species there, and the latter two are quite rare.

Juvenile rats and racers are possibilities, but to me it sounds like an eastern milksnake.

Jeff Hathaway
Sciensational Sssnakes!!

[Murse]

Your info says your location is Chester , NY ... what part of Ny is Chester in ? I lived in Syracuse for 30 years.... Rattlesnakes and Copperheads are very rare in Ny..... a 10 inch snake .... I'm guessing a juvenile Black Rat Snake... wild rats can be very ornery.

[JD@reptiles]

i say its either a eastern milk or a nerodia ssp. there is no snake in NY called a "harmless grass snake" or really any snake in north america that has the word grass in its name. either way if it didn't have a rattle your more than likely safe. for the record, ID the snake before you pick it up.

[John Doe]

Raintoad! That's a pretty stupid thing to say to someone who don't know what type of snakes he's dealing with. When you have poisonous snakes in your area, even if they are more than rare, you sould never take any chances, (even more if a child is concerned), when you are not absolutly sure of the species you are dealing with. If i fallow your reasonment, if you walk the streets with a child and find a gun, you're gonna put the thing against the head of the child just to educate about fire arms, without knowing if it's loaded or not. Rattlesnakes don't always have a rattle, or because they lost it or because it's too youg and with a snake in the wild, it's often pretty confusing to be sure of what species you're dealing with. By the way, Timber rattlers rarely rattle when they are scared, prefering to stay still, hoping they won't bee seen.

Always be carefull when you give advices to people who don't know what type of animals they're dealing with, even more if you don't know it yourself.

I,ve been working with poisonous snakes in the wild and in captivity for many years and you can believe me that it's not always very evident to be certain of the species you re dealing with at first sight.

[mambacatcher127]

where do you live?

[mambacatcher127]

sorry shouldnt have asked that, depending on where you live, sounds like it might be a baby southern diamond back rattle snake.

[mambacatcher127]

It didnt have a rattle so i knew it wasnt a rattle snake, it had a long slender tail. normally i would have just forgotten about it but ive never seen a non venomous snake act like that. ive seen tons of rattle snakes and copperheads around my house and they all go into that position. If i see it again ill take a pic of it. Since i didnt think it was a rattlesnake or a copperhead i nudged it into a little bucket and put it back in the woods.

there are a few non venomous snakes that do that thing with there tail, usually against a leaf or the grass which makes it sound like a rattle, therefore scaring a predator away.

[Andy_G]

I agree with Simon, that's pretty thick.

[new addiction r]

Raintoad:
I totally disagree with your statements. If you were any kind of snake person then you would know NOT to just jump into a dangerous situation IE. JUST PICK IT UP. If you knew any better you would realize that even a rear fanged snake that is not necessarily dangerous to humans could potentially harm a young child. Also there are snakes that mimic their venomous counterparts so you dont always know what they are. In the future I would think about the advice that I give before I give it if I were you.

[NYPD70]

I think your best bet would be to get yourself a good field guide like the Audubon Society Field Guide to North American Reptiles and Amphibians. It has excellent pics and you should have little trouble finding a pic of, and identifying the animal you saw in your yard. I definitely do not suggest picking it up and handing it to anyone of any age until you've properly identified it. Good luck!

[Reticsrule]

guys this was an old and dead thread :meddead:

[mambacatcher127]

guys this was an old and dead thread :meddead:


so it would be a little bit helpful for the kid to know whats crawling around his backyard.

[Reticsrule]

the thread is over a year old and the kid probably doesnt even come on here anymore.

[new addiction r]

OOPS! I guess i should watch my dates.

[mambacatcher127]

i feel like an @$$

[crimsonking]

It is also possible that it was/is a juvenile easterm milksnake. While "diamonds" may be a stretch, their blotches can be described as diamonds sometimes. Is there a better description of the snake available and a location associated with it?
At any rate, leave any snake you cannot i.d. 100% alone.
:Mark

[dannyc]

Here's a site I find helpful when I run across an odd snake.

http://www.oplin.org/snake/quick%20id/quickid.html