Cobraman out of hospital after nasty bite

[News]

The following news article once again demonstrates that there is no substitute for using the proper tools and handling methods. Hyperimmunize or not, if you compromise your safety, you will pay the price. Freehandling is not a generally acceptable method of handling venomous snakes.

__________________________________________________ __

Snake handler out of hospital after nasty bite

http://www.tcpalm.com/tcp/the_news_local_news/article/0,1651,TCP_1028_1468660,00.html

By Robin Campbell staff writer
October 9, 2002

PORT ST. LUCIE The general manager and snake handler for a local exotic pet business, bitten by an Indonesian snake Monday night, was released from the hospital Tuesday in good condition.

Ray Hunter, a 17-year snake handler, said the bite he received Monday from a Hagen's pit viper was neither the worst he's received nor does he expect it to be the last.

Port St. Lucie police spokesman Chuck Johnson said Hunter was preparing some snakes for transport in a warehouse at Exotics R Us a Port St. Lucie business that imports, exports and sells exotic reptiles when he was bitten on the finger by the venomous snake.

A witness told police that Hunter took his eyes off the snake only for a moment as he was moving it and the snake instinctively defended itself.

As a precaution, an antivenin serum was immediately shipped from Miami to St. Lucie Medical Center, where Hunter was taken for treatment.

Hunter, however, said he was sure that he would be fine, so he opted not to take the serum sent by the Miami-Dade County snake-bite unit.

"I opted not to use the serum because I was getting better, not worse," Hunter said. "I'm sure it wasn't the last bite, so why hyper-sensitize myself (to the antivenin)."

Hunter admitted that the bite hurt "immensely." He said his hand is still in a great deal of pain because of the swelling.

Hunter said he was released from the hospital Tuesday with pain medication and an antibiotic prescription for the swelling.

[Tim_Cranwill]

I wish our friend, Cobraman, a speedy recovery. I hope he posts his full version of the story when he's up and at it again. :)

[sSNAKESs.com]

Ray!! get well soon buddy! :)

[HyGhBr|d]

sorry to hear hope u are well soon!!!

[Nikki Gervais]

Get better man, I'm glad we didn't loose a great hot keeper!

[sophia]

Ray Be Blessed with health doll, wisdom keeps biting you hard rather than knocking softly at your door.

Beautiful viper, nasty little minx temper!

Take good care of yourself and we hope to talk to you soon!

Tay

[derek]

get well soon ray and can't wait to hear your story of this all

[corr]

Take care Ray and God bless! :)

[Dom]

Get well soon - can't wait to hear your story!

[Vanan]

Get well soon Ray! We're gonna miss you. :)

[reverendsterlin]

Get well soon Ray, maybe even start a little bit of speed exercises too lol j/k. Still glad I avoid handling mine as much as possible.

[Sean_.E.]

Get Well Soon! Hope everything goes alright!

[BIG SCOTT]

Hope you get better and Ray and we can't wait to here your side of the story.

[cobraman]

Thank you all very much for your kind wishes and support. It is so nice to see a group of people support each other with such kindness. Thank you all very much. I'm sure that your responces to the origional "news" post is a shock to the person who started this thread. Whoever started this thread did not even have the decency to contact me to get the correct details, but instead made himself look foolish by the remarks made about free handling and self immunizing. If they would have bothered to contact me, they would have learned that I was not free handling a Hagens Viper (nor do I freehandle anything except cobras). I had just finished probing the snake for a buyer when a kid ran by the front of my shop and pounded the door, which made me instinctively glance up of a second long enough to get bit. (so maybe "NEWS" would suggest that we get rid of ALL kids so nobody ever gets bit by a snake ever again???)
Anyway, I really did not need to get defensive because all of you who responded to his post responded in such a kind way that it must have been a shock to the starter of this thread. So to all of you, again I thank you for your kind wishes. Feel free to contact me if you are interested in any of the details of the bite or it's treatment>
Be very blessed, all.
Ray Hunter (Cobraman)

[josefg]

Happy to hear from you again cobraman. :)

Take care man!

[jsnake0]

good hear you are ok i say feed kids to the viper

[Dom]

I happy you are doing well man ..

Id love to hear about the treatment u received or your whole experience about the whole ordeal

Take care
Dom

[cobraman]

Oh the treatment... I almost feel sorry for the E.R. staff. After being a medic so long, and knowing more anout snakebite treatment than the average E.R. staff, I don't think I made a very good patient. But they handled it (and me) very well. It was almost humorous to watch them scrambling for an antivenom even after I advised them there was no antivenom for this snake. Treatment is all supportive.
Blessings to all,
Ray

[Shane Tesser]

Glad to see everything is okay Ray.....next time bite em back!!!

[hip]

sorry to hear about your mishap Ray I wish you a speedy recovery Take care and caution Hip

[sophia]

They're slandering him on that 'other' site right now and I posted a nasty rebuttal to them. I mean really making 'slanderous' comments about him being an idiot. Made me so mad I told the whole forum exactly what I thought of them and said I might check back in a couple of months to see if anything had changed!

The more I talk to people, the more I like my snakes!

Tay

[rattekonigin]

Glad you're well, cobraman! Just curious, is the Hagens Viper's venom myotoxic (sp)?

[Nightflight99]

Just curious, is the Hagens Viper's venom myotoxic (sp)?

There was a study published by Chanhome et al. (2002) that found the venoms of Thai Trimeresurus (including T.hageni) to contain hemorrhagic, proteolytic, phospholipase A, arginine ester hydrolyse, and thrombin activities.

Regards,

---Nightflight99

[cobraman]

As Nightflight99 wrote, the venom is chiefly heamotoxic, but is loaded with cytotoxins as well. Good job on your homework, Nightflight99. You get an A+.
Just came back from the surgons office this afternoon. He trimmed off a few pounds of necrotic tissue from the bitten finger, but the good news (to me, anyway) is that I should be able to keep the finger tip. It was sort of up in the air until now. I attached a pic of the finger after he cleaned it up a bit today (for all you gore lovers). Thank you all for all your kind wishes and prayers. You all really make up for the one or two jerks out there who act like rightious superheros while hiding behind their computers, mouthing off against their fellow herpers. (whoops, soap box giving way under my weight)
Be Blessed You All
Ray Hunter
(oh, duhh---I can't attach a pic when using this quick reply. Sorry, next time.

[cobraman]

Ok, I'll try it again.

[cobraman]

NOTE TO MODERATOR---- If the pic is too much, or inappropriate, please remove it, or let me know and I will remove it.
Blessings
Ray

[sophia]

OUCH Ray, that looks like it kinda hurt a bit! But you know, I've seen worse from a Brown Recluse bite so they can shove their sanctimonius anti-hot herp messages where the sun don't shine Buddy!

The lady bitten was my cousin by marriage, she too was in Florida Ray, they had to remove most of the inside of her calf muscle down to the bone! It still looks horrid to this day but she lived and that's what you've got to think about. What could have been the alternative eh???

Thanks Ray, I find the pics and chat to be a good, positive education for anyone in the trade or hobby, not just the hot handlers but all of us.


Tay

[Tim_Cranwill]

Yikes! I hope you heal nicely.

Welcome back!

[McPatch]

That is cool(in the grossest way).Glad to hear that things are working out.Hope you make a quick recovery.
Whatever doesn't kill you only makes you stronger.

Darren

[Tim_Cranwill]

Philip,

The more I read your posts (on this thread and other similar ones) the more educated you sound. But you are also starting to sound pretty self righteous, arrogant and nit-picky (go ahead and reply telling me that nit-picky is not a word). Commenting on the exact details of a subject is fine, but telling someone to learn how to spell is uncalled for. That is exactly the type of immature nonsense that Sophia and others were saying they were glad hadn't taken over this site yet.

Sorry to attack you but I couldn't hold back after reading a few "low blows" you delivered to Ray and Jeremy. I'm sure Ray knows that he made a mistake and I'm very sure that nobody cares if Jeremy misspelled a few words.

I also appologise for butting in again, but I could not help it.

Peace.

[Tim_Cranwill]

Fair enough.

[C.Marshell]

GOOD to see you back man!

[Canadaherp]

did you ever find out the sex of the snake (even though it dont matter really to me)

[sophia]

At least Phillip isn't outright slandering Ray, he makes a very good point about how it affects the rest of us and he's right, it does. On this other board there was name calling, slandering and now add harassment to that tally, so I think it was dealt with pretty well here.

Good thoughts Phillip, heads up!

Tay

[Syst3m]

Glad to see you back cobraman! Good to hear the digit is going to stay! My best wishes on a speedy recovery.

[ElapheScott]

I know you don't know me but I wish you a speedy recovery.
Your photos are what got me to become a member by the way.
Breathtaking.

[Cobra_Fangs]

I am glad you are alright!!!!!:D Sorry it took me so long to reply!!!:( I have been busy with the kids activities.
People like that should be hung, plus their reptiles taken from them!!! I did not think you freehandled pit vipers!!! Cobras I can see (to a point). That is the only way to handle that species. Well I hope you all the best in your recovery.
Will W.

[BIG SCOTT]

Phillip I completely agree with you. Ray made a mistake and i'm sure this time he will realize the impact that all this bad press can have. I have only been dealing with hots for a few yrs and only local snakes but you still have to be careful with any venomous snake and treat the situation very carefully. Atleast here in Tx we can still keep venomous snakes. But in all fairness to Ray they do say that there are 2 kinds of venomous snake keepers, those who will be bitten and those who have been bitten. So you see it can happen to even the most professinal of people and the most carefull of people. Lets just hope Ray learned his lesson b/c I sure do enjoy his pics and would hate to not be able to see them anymore.
Scott,

[cobraman]

Thank you again to all you who wished me well. Your kindness is greatly appreciated.
To Phillip, I understand how you feel, because I feel the same way. You can't be silly enough to think that I called the press while on a streatched in the emergency room so I could get this out in the news. I did everything I could to prevent this from hitting the press. The doctors even did all they could to hide the ACCIDENT from the press. Do you REALLY think I enjouy the bad press from this??? I don't belive that you do. When I was in recovery, I declined talking to the press until I was released, and even then only spoke to one writer who said if I did not talk with him he would just print whatever he had which would make it look worse. Instead of attacking me, you should find out who is spreading the article all over the internet and go after him. I damn sure did not want this article plastered all over the internet. I do not get glorification from a snake bite. If there are some out there that do, thats on them. What you need to realize is that in this biz these accidents do happen to even the best of the best. I have yet to read a negative post about Bill Haast and how he is a problem to herpers, yet he has been bitten 173 times. We can and do learn from our mistakes, but does that mean an accident will never occur again in our lives??? I am NOT blaming the accident on a kid, I was simply stating the facts of the incident. My looking up was an instinctive reflex to him banging the door. I doubt you would have responded differently. Another factor in my "track record" is that I handle over 300 venomous snakes daily through either venom production or the import/export and sales of them. I'm sure if I only had 20-30 venomous snakes and only had to mess with them once in a while to clean their cages I could go as long as most of you without getting bitten. But when you have to physically catch and restrain +/- 75 venomous snakes a day, your risk factor is greatly elevated. I'm sure you are able to see that. Before we start blasting each other, we need to look at the whole picture, and find out all the facts. When we take the time to do this, we often find that our *****ing is unwarranted. I don't like the press anymore than you do. I do everything I can to avoid it. Do you think I want to loose my career because hots become outlawed in Florida??? Come on think about it before you go around blasting people. Incidently, your negative remarks in your posts are just as damaging to herpers as the press. Far more people have access to read what you post on the internet than what is printed in a few papers. Sometimes we are our own worse enemies. If you or anyone has any questions or concerns about my work, what I do, or whatever, Please feel free to contact me. I am very easy to access, and am open to any suggestions or comments. Remember I am on your side, even if you can't see it that way.
Be very blessed.
Ray Hunter

Thanks again to all you who have been so kind. This is a good example to everyone on how we all should stick together in good and bad times. Blessings,
Ray

[cobraman]

by the way canadaherp, it was a female (lol). Peace, Ray

[cobraman]

Phillip, not only do I not expect your symapthy, I don't need or want it. You clearly do not have a clue about what you are rambling on about. You don't know me, nor do you know my practices. For your information, I was using a tube to restrain the snake while I probed it. And I DO use the proper safety equipment when handling. You think you can figure me out by a few silly pics on the internet, but you are wrong. Again, why don't you get your facts straight before you make yourself look so silly. I have nothing more to say to you, as you are clearly one of the few people that we just consider the source, and ignore your stupidity. Go ahead and get your last word (that's part of your childish charactor, I'm sure), but I will not be responding to whatever self rightious B.S. you write. and like it or not, I wish you all the very best, and God's blessings.
Ray

[cobraman]

I know I'm breaking my own rule of lowering myself to your mentality, but I wanted to ruin your whole week by informing you that the finger is recovering fully, so once again you have shown everyone with a computer that you truely have no clue about what you are talking about (AGAIN!). I have all my fingers and the use of them all. Sorry to disappoint you. Now go have a good cry, and maybe you'll feel better.

When you grow up a little and learn reading comprehension, go back and read my account of what hapened, instead of being so obnoxious in your self rightiousness. You're fooling nobody, you know damn well that accidents can happen even with the use of tubes and safety equipment. Unless you are perfect (as you are foolishly trying to make out like you are) we make errors, and miscalculations, and in this case I have instinctive reflexes and reactions to external circumstances. I never claimed that the bite was not my error, and that I am perfect. And I am not foolish enough to throw in the towel with my career because I made one or more mistakes in a time frame that is not acceptable to you. To most, venomous snakes is a hobby or extra income. To me it is my career, and sole source of income (and not a bad one). Of course I learn from my mistakes, but that does not mean another mistake can't happen down the road, maybe even tomorrow. I don't see any of your childish posts in responce to any of Bill Haast's 173 bites. He has had more than two bites in a two month period. Go ahead, tell us all how much of a "dumb ***" Mr. Haast is. Theres a hell of a lot more publicity about all his bites than the one written about me (which was not even written in a negative way). Fact is, you don;t know him, and you have made it obvious to all the readers here that you don't know me or anything about me (although as two others pointed out to me in e-mails, you do seem to be over obsessed with me). When I acheive the status of perfection like you, I will not have to worry about ever making a mistake again. Until then why don't you do like everyone else has done, and forgive me for my mistakes, instead of acting like you have some kind of enveyous obsession with me and my work.
All the very best,
Ray Hunter

[Dom]

Alright Ray and Philllip,

Your discution started out great and I was very impressed by how well mannared both of you were but as the replies went on, the discussion got very heated.

PLEASE keep it civilised and refrain from any name calling and profanity. Unless you have construcive critisism towards each other plz don't post again. :)

This is a community, everyone can read your posts, try not to forget it.

[cobraman]

Yeah, right, phil, you are right, I am wrong, You are so WOW, and I am not. I have admitted my mistake several times in these silly posts, but you don't want to see that. You're perfect, I'm not. You're gold, I'm Dirt. What else do you want to hear. Now how about doing like Dom suggested, and rise above this silliness, and move on. You made your point (even if your facts are not right), You've shown everyone how much more superiour you are compared to us mere humans who make mistakes.

Dom. Thank you for your good imput. I have been getting lots of e-mail from your members telling me to consider the source and stop feeding his sickness. I will heed your advise.
Be blessed,
Ray

[Dom]

NP Ray..

Glad to hear you are doing better.